Do Squirtle Players Use Bubble At All?

[GamerGuy09]

I've watched some gameplays of Squirtle online and it seems like Squirtle players never Bubble or Water Gun for that mater. Are the two moves worthless, or just not that important in his gameplay style?

 

[dettadeus]

whatever squirtle players you're watching don't know how to play the character then, lol

bubble is amazing, water gun is pretty situational so it's not seen as commonly

 

[MetalKnuckles]

Water Gun is not something you will see much, if at all. Just doesn't have much gain/reward for using it.

Bubble on the other hand is awesome. It's great for leading into combos and edge-guarding opponents. I personally like to use it to break combo's being done to me or just to get a breathe by tripping my opponent for a second. I think it's a little harder to use and land when in the air but that's just me and I only play casually, but I've seen video's where it's a very scary tool.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Bubble is the rapest move I have ever seen.
**** is a semispike and a great spacing/combo tool.
Its squirtle's best move.

 

[Translucent]

Squirtle bubble is pretty good, and really fun to use. It's SUPER good at gimping against a lot of recoveries. When used on stage, you can usually get a follow up if they don't tech it.

 

[Kudzu]

Bubble is the rapest move I have ever seen.
Its squirtle's best move.

This is the truf. Bubble really is Squirtle's best move. Chasing an enemy off the ledge and landing a bubble essentially gets you a kill. (depending on the character that's recovering)

Bubble on the stage is great for setting up combos and smash attacks, especially the **** up and down smashes.

Also, short hop to bubble is the way to go.

 

[dettadeus]

Also, short hop to bubble is the way to go.

*shellshift SH wavebounce bubble

 

[bubbaking]

It seems like everyone knows that Bubble is good, so I'd like to point out some really good things about Water Gun. Yes, it's one of Squirtle's more situational moves, but I've found the move to be very useful, nonetheless.

For one, Water Gun is a great tool for boosting Squirt's mobility, even if you just use the charge (cancel) for this reason. The fact that it gives Squirtle access to a quick B-reversal or WB/RBR in the air really helps him mix-up his movement. When I'm dancing around the opponent in the air, to keep myself unpredictable, I'll B-reverse the Water Gun charge, cancel it, and do something else. None of his other specials can do this. Bubble kinda can, but it has more lag, so not really.

Secondly, the move stuffs so many actions. It has good range when charged (which happens over the course of a few 'dance aerial charges' for me) and can effectively wall/zone out the opponent if you use it right. It also gimps pretty well in some situations.

Thirdly, an uncharged Water Gun has very little lag. I've already combo'd an aerial uncharged Water Gun into a grab a la Sheik's needles. It's also a really good option for quickly stuffing an opponent's attack, since the move has decent range.

IMO, Water Gun is a really good tool for Squirtle. People just have to experiment with it more, be more creative, and AIM WELL!

*shellshift SH wavebounce bubble

Yo, I came up with that!

 

[dettadeus]

i came up with that at 9 in the morning after the demo came out son, i mos-def came up with that first

 

[bubbaking]

Oh really?

From what I suspect, those two instances you just named would be good times to use it, and it's probably also a good poke to throw out on shields without being punished. It might also be a nice tactic to throw in under projectiles, like Falco's lasers and Samus' missiles. I still have to play around with this against actual people more than I have when he was still in development. I do wish he had that weak armor on his shell shift, though. It would make it SO much easier to throw it out there without risking some kind of hitbox messing it up. Also, one thing I'm thinking of trying out is shell shift > SH > B-reversed Bubble.

Edit: Maybe replace that Bubble with reverse Water Gun or B-reversed Water Gun. I know for sure that Shell Shift induces knockdown at mid to high %'s, so now I'd like to know which things cause resets. If those things do that, then I've got myself a move that quickly forces a possibly unexpected knockdown immediately followed by a missed tech reset, which would definitely lead to some big damage. Of course, if those things don't work, I could probably just go for a big hit with usmash or dsmash. Squirtle has so many options!

Regardless, I guess great minds think alike.

 

[dettadeus]

9 am on the 29th is still before that post ;P

also technically it's called a ShellSling Bubble now if we decide to keep all the Brawl names for AT's (which we have so far so I don't see why we wouldn't)

 

[Dubforce]

I am starting to really like watergun. Use it in the air and don't charge it too much.

 

[Translucent]

Yea, water gun is definitely interesting to use. Short hopping with is is turning out to be pretty useful sometimes.

 

[DoH]

near the edge, bubble > withdraw > ****

 

[Jonny Westside]

i came up with that at 9 in the morning after the demo came out son, i mos-def came up with that first

It seems like everyone knows that Bubble is good, so I'd like to point out some really good things about Water Gun. Yes, it's one of Squirtle's more situational moves, but I've found the move to be very useful, nonetheless.

For one, Water Gun is a great tool for boosting Squirt's mobility, even if you just use the charge (cancel) for this reason. The fact that it gives Squirtle access to a quick B-reversal or WB/RBR in the air really helps him mix-up his movement. When I'm dancing around the opponent in the air, to keep myself unpredictable, I'll B-reverse the Water Gun charge, cancel it, and do something else. None of his other specials can do this. Bubble kinda can, but it has more lag, so not really.

Secondly, the move stuffs so many actions. It has good range when charged (which happens over the course of a few 'dance aerial charges' for me) and can effectively wall/zone out the opponent if you use it right. It also gimps pretty well in some situations.

Thirdly, an uncharged Water Gun has very little lag. I've already combo'd an aerial uncharged Water Gun into a grab a la Sheik's needles. It's also a really good option for quickly stuffing an opponent's attack, since the move has decent range.

IMO, Water Gun is a really good tool for Squirtle. People just have to experiment with it more, be more creative, and AIM WELL!



Yo, I came up with that!

Why complicate it with a SH and wavebounce? Simply SS to Bubble works just fine. O_O

 

[bubbaking]

I take it you are referring to my quotation of myself that talks about SS > SH > B-reversed Bubble/Water Gun. Tbh, I was looking for moves that will reset the opponent if SS knocks the opponent down (which it does at mid %'s and higher) and he misses the tech.

As for why I would B-reverse the bubble? There are a couple reasons for that. First, SS does not always bring the opponent in front of Squirt when he turns around. In fact, at lower %'s (and on faster fallers, it seems), it leaves them behind Squirtle. I have been successful with landing a pivot grab most of the time in this situation, but I was looking for variations to this as well as things to do in a knockdown situation. SH reverse Bubble is the easiest way for Squirt to turn around and bubble the opponent if he is still behind him after the SS. However, B-reverse Bubble will also serve to reverse Squirt's momentum and bring him back onto the opponent for easier follow-ups.

Is all of this stuff necessary? Probably not. Could a lot of these things be useful given the right scenario? Probably. It helps to know your options.

It seems like dettadeus, me, and the rest of us are doing some serious work trying to see what we can do with this char. I look forward to comparing notes!

 

[dettadeus]

I wasn't even implying hitting with the SS.
The thing I was describing just causes him to practically teleport while running and perform a SH Bubble.
Like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UZyrcadBKM&t=3m4s

Running forward > suddenly SH bubble in other direction

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, well then neither of us came up with anything first, 'cause we were talking about totally different situations.

 

[Dubforce]

Everyone who says watergun is bad is just DEAD wrong. After weeks of play it is SO GOOD. You can stop falcons knee with a well timed watergun. Its also amazing against marth.

I could easily make a long argument for watergun, but I won't. Use it or don't, its up to you. Personally, I use it every match and sometimes it is one of my main spacing tools in a match (Falcon, marth, falco). Just have a little faith and try to use the move. It is very useful and you are giving up an amazing tool if you think its bad/situational.

 

[bubbaking]

A couple days ago, I came up against an extremely campy Jiggs and found another pretty neat use for Water Gun. OK, so we all know how annoying a planking Jiggs is. Most chars can't really do anything about it without putting themselves at serious risk. One char who is especially good at punishing Jiggs for this is Sheik, because her needles are the perfect projectile for covering the ledge area from a safe distance and tacking damage onto Jiggs. Well in a very similar fashion, Squirt's Water Gun is also quite good at covering this area. It's not AS good, but it still arcs almost perfectly over the ledge and can tack damage onto Jiggs for planking.

 

[MonkUnit]

Pretty sure you could also use watergun to punish a missed rest by sliding jiggs off the stage with it as well.

 

[Translucent]

You could monk but would you have to space it to the part that will push but not deal damage?

 

[MonkUnit]

If it deals damage but has no kb then itd work. That's why you can shoot lasers w/ fox and it doesn't knock jiggs out of rest lag

 

[bubbaking]

It does cause minimal KB though, I think. You would need to hit with the end of the gun to get the no KB part.

 

[sa1vy]

I think a fully charged forward would just be more reliable than trying to get the ko with water gun.

edit: spelling

 

[bubbaking]

I'd actually go with a fully charged usmash. I think that's Squirt's strongest smash and Puff's weight and floatiness make it easier to kill her off the top than out the side.

 

[traffic.]

*eyetwitch @ wavebounce being a word*

Bubble is possibly squirtle's most important move, because nothing else comes close to replicating its result. SH bubble is incredibly useful because it can create an opening in almost any character's defense. easily spammable because it's obviously impossible to approach with enough time to escape, and if it lands you have a pretty much guaranteed follow up. grounded it has a smaller window of opportunity, but gives you more distance, so for a breakup/return to neutral game it is more effective than an aggressive SH.

Absurdly effective gimping tool against many characters, and a great finishing touch to any combo that takes you off the edge. It's to be noted here though that if you hit with bubble in the air, you halt momentum, and stay where you are. Missing a bubble off stage can cost you a stock since you continue to fall during the ending lag.

Bubble *****. A lot. It opens up and starts a combo, and it finishes that combo with an easy kill. Any move that can claim those things belongs in your move list, and should never not be involved in your play.




Water gun on the other hand, is pretty ****ing ******** and I've not found much use for its awful lag aside from pushing back fairing marths. Or in that case, delaying my horrible death by about 2 seconds.

 

[dettadeus]

wavebounce is a tech from brawl

you reverse your momentum while facing the same direction

and before you or anyone in this thread asks: yes, brawl has advanced techniques

 

[traffic.]

i just never understood its called a wavebounce when its unrelated to its namesake entirely. not beefing. i get that brawl has some tricksy moves to it that were added for a reason

edz- just to clarify, it's where you b-reverse and b-turn the same move off a pivot jump? i've seen some rather hilarious falcon punches using this technique.

 

[bubbaking]

Another word for wavebounce (WB) that is gaining popularity with the P:M community is Reverse B-reversal (RBR), which more accurately describes the action.

About Bubble, sometimes when I'm recovering or falling a great distance, I use it to 'stall' a little bit or fake out my opponent in regards to my vertical momentum, since it seems to halt your vertical movement for a bit.

 

[dettadeus]

Doesn't have to be off a jump, it's at any time. However, we only really have two specials that can make use of it, and our airspeed isn't that high in the first place.

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, I know it doesn't have to be during a jump. I was just noting a time when I like to use it to throw off/surprise my opponent. It breaks up the flow during a high recovery.

Edit: And while we're on the topic of recovering, you should be using WD cancel to boost your airspeed if you need it.

 

[traffic.]

Detta: thanks, i wasnt sure if it was specific the air version in reference.

Semi-related, since it has to do with turning around out of b-moves, when surfing backwards to the ledge (from under the stage, facing away) do you really just have to sweetspot it to grab or is there a timing window to turn around at the very end of surf?

 

[dettadeus]

You can't turn around in the middle of a special, only the beginning.
Pretty sure Squirtle has a good reverse ledgegrab box though.

 

[bubbaking]

Most chars, maybe all, can grab the ledge backwards while transitioning into 'Special Fall' (a.k.a. helpless freefall animation) out of a special.

 

[SnatoWhato]

I was just about to post a thread with a similar topic. I think Bubble is an amazing move. It really helps set up for some great combos or just allowing Squirtle to safely move in for an up Smash Attack. I just had a practice fight with Ivysaur and thought, "Wouldn't it be nice if they would've added an Ice move to Squirtle's moveset?" I mean.. it needs something to counter Grass types lol. This is just my OCD, I find it hard to believe the Squirtle can beat an Ivysaur without ice. I know its not even a factor in Brawl/Project M. I just think it would look cool.. and more "realistic." <- I use the term loosely.

 

[KayB]

Bubble makes a good wall. It's quick, so you can just throw it out there if you think your opponent is going to rush you down. You can also finish combos with it, and if your fast enough its essentially a reset.

 

[bubbaking]

It also follows up into itself pretty well, and if you nab the opponent with it by the ledge, it's essentially a free Bubble to send them offstage.

 

[DoH]

Bubbles to jab reset to stuff

It's also super good in teams with a puff.

 

[bubbaking]

It also land-cancels, so it's nice to throw it out B-reversed to catch people by surprise.

It's also pretty useful when recovering high because of how it kinda slows down Squirt's descent, and also because it can be B-reversed.