Do Spirits Deconfirm? Update: Min Min = Spirits Don't Deconfirm Anymore

[fogbadge]

Yes, they are.

well theres still plenty to work with, wonder wholl be the legend

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Given what's happening now I say yes.

As it stands Minmin is the most popular ARMS character. Though Spring Man is the face the franchise looks like one of those where it doesn't matter nor has an protagonist and see it going with its most popular. Besides if it was Spring Man they would had revealed who it was otherwise why would they not since it seems they're trying to surprise us and what better way then using its most popular character by fans?

 

[RawstyleEevee]

The identity of the Arms character will make or break the overal spirit theory, but what today's update basically guaranteed is that even though a franchise had alot of spirits, it doesn't rule out that franchise entirely.

For example even if we get an Arms Character that wasn't a spirit and we would apply it to Resident Evil, Jill Valentine would still be out, but someone like Nemesis could still happen

I feel Pokemon and Xenoblade skyrocketed today to.

Also because people brought up the idea that the Arms character could be a Bowser Jr. scenario with the Koopaling alts, if this would happen spirit theory is obliterated, because they would have to edit every alt to fighter spirits, because thats how alts where handled in the past

 

[RileyXY1]

The identity of the Arms character will make or break the overal spirit theory, but what today's update basically guaranteed is that even though a franchise had alot of spirits, it doesn't rule out that franchise entirely.

For example even if we get an Arms Character that wasn't a spirit and we would apply it to Resident Evil, Jill Valentine would still be out, but someone like Nemesis could still happen

I feel Pokemon and Xenoblade skyrocketed today to.

Also because people brought up the idea that the Arms character could be a Bowser Jr. scenario with the Koopaling alts, if this would happen spirit theory is obliterated, because they would have to edit every alt to fighter spirits, because thats how alts where handled in the past

Pokemon is still out because the Sword & Shield Spirits were DLC.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Given what's happening now I say yes.

As it stands Minmin is the most popular ARMS character. Though Spring Man is the face the franchise looks like one of those where it doesn't matter nor has an protagonist and see it going with its most popular. Besides if it was Spring Man they would had revealed who it was otherwise why would they not since it seems they're trying to surprise us and what better way then using its most popular character by fans?

Min Min is a spirit though.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Min Min is a spirit though.

Crap I swear my brain isn't working today. I meant to say no not yes.

 

[fogbadge]

Pokemon is still out because the Sword & Shield Spirits were DLC.

of 8 pokemon theres still plenty to use

 

[RileyXY1]

of 8 pokemon theres still plenty to use

They wouldn't have even done a Spirit Event if there was going to be a Sword and Shield DLC character added, like how there was no Three Houses Spirit Event. A Gen 8 Pokemon is simply not possible unless Sakurai decides to have a 3rd Fighter Pass, which is confirmed to not be happening.

 

[fogbadge]

They wouldn't have even done a Spirit Event if there was going to be a Sword and Shield DLC character added, like how there was no Three Houses Spirit Event. A Gen 8 Pokemon is simply not possible unless Sakurai decides to have a 3rd Fighter Pass, which is confirmed to not be happening.

but thats just an assumption, lets face it sakurai does not think how any of the fans think, he doesnt really need a reason other than he wants to do it

 

[SmashChu]

But it's not like it's a different game or something, it's still just DLC. Why would timing play any part when it's literally just more of what we got in FP1??

This has been answered by someone else but let me see if I can help clarify

Often times, DLC is decided while the game is still in development. This is true for Smash Bros. I believe Sakurai mentioned that it was decided midway through though I'm not sure on the specifics. These characters were decided before the game was even out. Actually, Sakurai stated about a month before that the characters had already been decided. So all of the characters in FP1 were added in the context of the main game and its content. So, if they were going to be playable characters as DLC, they wouldn't have added them as a spirit, assist trophy or what have you.

FP2 is different. Let's say it was decided just a day before the direct so September 3rd. So this was decided long after the game came out. Moreover, when they release the game, there was no plan to add an additional six characters. Now, almost a year after release they decide they want to do more characters. So they can now revisit the pool of characters that were "deconfirmed" by spirits.

On the other hand, the spirits added after release (or at least close to when the pass was announced) probably are deconfirmed for the same reason as mentioned above. If they were going to add Leon from Resident Evil or the twins from Astral Chains, they wouldn't have made them spirits or given them spirit events. They would have just saved them for spirit battles with the new character.

So, in short, the difference is when things were decided. The old spirits are back on the menu because they could be upgraded (as FP2 wasn't planned then). The DLC spirits can't happen because they were added as Spirits alongside all the planning for FP2 (and would have been saved otherwise)

 

[Proceleon]

This has been answered by someone else but let me see if I can help clarify

If they were going to add Leon from Resident Evil or the twins from Astral Chains, they wouldn't have made them spirits or given them spirit events. They would have just saved them for spirit battles with the new character.

If they were going to add Rayman or Geno, they wouldn't have made them spirits in the base. They would have just saved them for DLC.
Ya see how easily that can be flipped?

Not that it matters now. When we know who the ARMS character is they're adding, we'll know for sure who is and isn't on the table. If it's Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Min Min, Twintelle or Ninjara, THEN Spirits can be in consideration, because then we will have a precedent for it being done, but if it's any of the other 10 characters in that game, then that will prove they are avoiding Spirits entirely.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If they were going to add Rayman or Geno, they wouldn't have made them spirits in the base. They would have just saved them for DLC.
Ya see how easily that can be flipped?

His point was the timing. Why would they save characters for a pass they didn't plan at the time? It's the same situation with the Lucas and Mewtwo trophies.

I could ask a similar question, too: why add ARMS characters as DLC when they already put them in base? Why not save them all for later, to use with the DLC?

 

[Proceleon]

His point was the timing. Why would they save characters for a pass they didn't plan at the time? It's the same situation with the Lucas and Mewtwo trophies.

I could ask a similar question, too: why add ARMS characters as DLC when they already put them in base? Why not save them all for later, to use with the DLC?

I dunno, it's Nintendo! Best guess is they want to push ARMS some more, cause it fell flat, but I can't get into Nintendo's head.
Still, think I'm gonna dip from this chat until June. We will have our answer in time.

 

[SmashChu]

If they were going to add Rayman or Geno, they wouldn't have made them spirits in the base. They would have just saved them for DLC.
Ya see how easily that can be flipped?

Not that it matters now. When we know who the ARMS character is they're adding, we'll know for sure who is and isn't on the table. If it's Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Min Min, Twintelle or Ninjara, THEN Spirits can be in consideration, because then we will have a precedent for it being done, but if it's any of the other 10 characters in that game, then that will prove they are avoiding Spirits entirely.

What your forgetting is that when they added Rayman and Geno as spirits, they never intended to make a second fighter pass. So they were never "saving" them. They can't save for something they don't know will happen.

 

[Dorayaki]

I think this depends on how much range the spirits cover.

If we're talking about presented IPs that have tons of characters to compete, but only small part of the characters are spirits in smash, well, the unused characters can just be the next fighters, so the spirits deconfirmation would not bother this franchise. Such as Impa is deconfirmed by spirit but Linkle still has a chance.

As for new NIntendo IP entry, I think it'd be difficult, considering most of them have been presented in spirits despite they don't have fighters. I'd think it's unfair to deconfirm their chances.

As for new third parties, this is a very big range and the spirits only cover small part of them, so that I don't think Nintendo must go with the spirits if they can scout a popular IP that doesn't have spirits.

 

[fogbadge]

I dunno, it's Nintendo! Best guess is they want to push ARMS some more, cause it fell flat, but I can't get into Nintendo's head.
Still, think I'm gonna dip from this chat until June. We will have our answer in time.

curious, when it comes to disproving other peoples points you have all these well thought out "logical" points but when some one points out the flaw in your own logic you say "its nintendo" in a tone that suggest that theyd do what they want. so either ive misunderstood or im detecting a double standard

also theyre not trying to push arms, sakurai already wanted to include an arms character but didnt get his chance before hand

 

[Proceleon]

curious, when it comes to disproving other peoples points you have all these well thought out "logical" points but when some one points out the flaw in your own logic you say "its nintendo" in a tone that suggest that theyd do what they want. so either ive misunderstood or im detecting a double standard

also theyre not trying to push arms, sakurai already wanted to include an arms character but didnt get his chance before hand

Well, the speculation scene is on a knife edge right now, that is to say it's changed slightly. I think a lot of people were writing off ARMS completely, but of course, Nintendo had to Nintendo and do something like this, so I'm currently quite apprehensive about the situation and would rather wait right now.
Right now it's like "this announcement could change things, but we'll have to wait for June to find out."
But adding an ARMS character doesn't mean much YET. When we know WHO it is, then that will be the nail in one side's coffin.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

One thing I've been thinking about, what if Nintendo decided that it would be whoever won Party Crash Bash, meaning it's Min-Min? After all, one could expect PCB to end roughly around when they chose the FP2 characters.

Because if it is Min-Min specifically and only because she won Party Crash Bash, would Sprits still deconfirm? Because then someone on the deconfirm side could say "Oh they only chose her because she won Party Crash Bash they would have chosen *other ARMS fighter* if *he/she* won, even if they were a Spirit/Assist Trophy/Mii Outfit".

Does that make sense or do I sound like I'm making leaps in logic?

 

[xpnc]

Because if it is Min-Min specifically and only because she won Party Crash Bash, would Sprits still deconfirm? Because then someone on the deconfirm side could say "Oh they only chose her because she won Party Crash Bash they would have chosen *other ARMS fighter* if *he/she* won, even if they were a Spirit/Assist Trophy/Mii Outfit".

As soon as you start saying "spirits deconfirm, except x" you are no longer saying spirits deconfirm

 

[TheCJBrine]

One thing I've been thinking about, what if Nintendo decided that it would be whoever won Party Crash Bash, meaning it's Min-Min? After all, one could expect PCB to end roughly around when they chose the FP2 characters.

Because if it is Min-Min specifically and only because she won Party Crash Bash, would Sprits still deconfirm? Because then someone on the deconfirm side could say "Oh they only chose her because she won Party Crash Bash they would have chosen *other ARMS fighter* if *he/she* won, even if they were a Spirit/Assist Trophy/Mii Outfit".

Does that make sense or do I sound like I'm making leaps in logic?

It still shows they don't give a crap if a character is already a spirit. FP2 was decided way after FP1/basegame spirits.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, the speculation scene is on a knife edge right now, that is to say it's changed slightly. I think a lot of people were writing off ARMS completely, but of course, Nintendo had to Nintendo and do something like this, so I'm currently quite apprehensive about the situation and would rather wait right now.
Right now it's like "this announcement could change things, but we'll have to wait for June to find out."
But adding an ARMS character doesn't mean much YET. When we know WHO it is, then that will be the nail in one side's coffin.

id says it more a case of sakurai being sakurai than nintendo being nintendo

 

[Proceleon]

id says it more a case of sakurai being sakurai than nintendo being nintendo

Well, Nintendo chose the characters, so I'm more inclined to put this on them.

It still shows they don't give a crap if a character is already a spirit. FP2 was decided way after FP1/basegame spirits.

It doesn't show that YET, and frankly, assuming it does is seriously jumping about 20 guns. It may still be one of the 10 unrepped characters, in which case we'll know they are taking into account who is and isn't a Spirit.
They only thing this proves for certain is that a game can have a Fighter even if that game is already in Smash, making games like Nintendogs, Rhythm Paradise and Pilotwings slightly more likely, just as random examples.
The part we DON'T know is whether that extends to specific characters. Games, yes. Characters we'll know in June.

 

[TheCJBrine]

It doesn't show that YET, and frankly, assuming it does is seriously jumping about 20 guns. It may still be one of the 10 unrepped characters, in which case we'll know they are taking into account who is and isn't a Spirit.
They only thing this proves for certain is that a game can have a Fighter even if that game is already in Smash, making games like Nintendogs, Rhythm Paradise and Pilotwings slightly more likely, just as random examples.
The part we DON'T know is whether that extends to specific characters. Games, yes. Characters we'll know in June.

Dude, what shows that they don't give a crap is what Hollywoodrok12 was suggesting, if it happened. I'm starting to think you don't read.

 

[Proceleon]

Dude, what shows that they don't give a crap is what Hollywoodrok12 was suggesting, if it happened. I'm starting to think you don't read.

And I'm saying that if the new Fighter isn't already a Spirit, then it shows that Nintendo do, as you put it, "give a crap if a character is already a spirit."
Never mind hatched, people are counting their chickens before they've even been LAID.

 

[TheCJBrine]

And I'm saying that if the new Fighter isn't already a Spirit, then it shows that Nintendo do, as you put it, "give a crap if a character is already a spirit."
Never mind hatched, people are counting their chickens before they've even been LAID.

My point was I wasn’t even arguing about what they would definitely do, it’s just if they did what Holkywoodrok said, then they pretty much don’t care, because Min Min is already a spirit. I’m not arguing it’s 100% happening. Geez, dude...

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm gonna be honest.
I'm 60% sure it's Spring Man, if not multiple characters in one like Bowser Jr. and Hero, which means that neither Spirits, nor Mii Costumes, nor Assist Trophies deconfirm fighters.
Edit: Plus, they could easily replace Spring Man's Assist Trophy with Springtron.

 

[Proceleon]

I'm gonna be honest.
I'm 60% sure it's Spring Man, if not multiple characters in one like Bowser Jr. and Hero, which means that neither Spirits, nor Mii Costumes, nor Assist Trophies deconfirm fighters.
Edit: Plus, they could easily replace Spring Man's Assist Trophy with Springtron.

I don't get how people think this solely because they didn't specify. They only said "this Fighter" as in singular character.
Hype does weird things to people, I guess.

 

[Ben Holt]

I don't get how people think this solely because they didn't specify. They only said "this Fighter" as in singular character.
Hype does weird things to people, I guess.

Hero was also marketed as a single fighter before being revealed.
And the ARMS cast are far more similar to each other than Luminary, Erdrick, Solo, and Eight.

 

[Proceleon]

Hero was also marketed as a single fighter before being revealed.
And the ARMS cast are far more similar to each other than Luminary, Erdrick, Solo, and Eight.

Hero was always marketed as four characters in one from the get-go. There was zero ambiguity about it.
And not exactly. Spring Man, Springtron and Ribbon Girl maybe, but Helix and Kid Cobra have extended torsos, most of the other males have wider shoulders, the female characters are mostly longer in the legs/hips and there are obvious reasons why Byte & Barq and Twintelle can't fit that mould. With Hero, they're all average human shape, so it's more natural to do that, but there's a lot more physical disparity in the ARMS cast than people make out.
Same reason Isabelle couldn't be a Villager Echo - their skeletons just don't match.

 

[Ben Holt]

Hero was always marketed as four characters in one from the get-go. There was zero ambiguity about it.
And not exactly. Spring Man, Springtron and Ribbon Girl maybe, but Helix and Kid Cobra have extended torsos, most of the other males have wider shoulders, the female characters are mostly longer in the legs/hips and there are obvious reasons why Byte & Barq and Twintelle can't fit that mould. With Hero, they're all average human shape, so it's more natural to do that, but there's a lot more physical disparity in the ARMS cast than people make out.
Same reason Isabelle couldn't be a Villager Echo - their skeletons just don't match.

I think it'll be Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min for that exact reason.

 

[Proceleon]

I think it'll be Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min for that exact reason.

And in the case that it's not a Spirit...?

 

[zferolie]

And in the case that it's not a Spirit...?

if its not a Spirit, only one I see working well is Dr. COyle. Shes the main villain of the series, she MADE the arms, and has quite a few unique mechanics not seen in this game, like invisibility and stuff.

 

[Chaosmaster8753]

There could still be a fighter who already exists as a Spirit even if the ARMS one isn't. I guess it all depends on who Nintendo wanted to include for whatever reason/s they had. We know that Spirits and Spirit battles can be edited, but in regards to if they decide to include a Fighter Spirit of an existing Spirit, what else do they need outside of another render/artwork for said character?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There could still be a fighter who already exists as a Spirit even if the ARMS one isn't. I guess it all depends on who Nintendo wanted to include for whatever reason/s they had. We know that Spirits and Spirit battles can be edited, but in regards to if they decide to include a Fighter Spirit of an existing Spirit, what else do they need outside of another render/artwork for said character?

Just literally need to rename the Spirit slightly to prevent confusion. For example, renaming Spring Man to Spring Man(ARMS) and that's it.

Yeah, it's really simple overall.

 

[fogbadge]

Well, Nintendo chose the characters, so I'm more inclined to put this on them.

sakurai and nintendo chose the characters together, he told us this back at the start

 

[Proceleon]

There could still be a fighter who already exists as a Spirit even if the ARMS one isn't.

Yeesh, I guess even with hard evidence there'll still be people who convince themselves otherwise.
Look, this character will make or break this whole mess of a debate no matter wish side you're on, so why fight against it with "b-b-but there's still this other series" when ARMS will be hard proof?

sakurai and nintendo chose the characters together, he told us this back at the start

I. Know.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yeesh, I guess even with hard evidence there'll still be people who convince themselves otherwise.
Look, this character will make or break this whole mess of a debate no matter wish side you're on, so why fight against it with "b-b-but there's still this other series" when ARMS will be hard proof?

I don’t see why it’s such a big deal as if people are crazy idiots for believing so.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m calling it - the ARMS rep will be Min Min (who’s a Spirit currently). She won the final Party Crash Bash, plus not Spirited characters like Dr. Coyle or Mechanica aren’t as popular. They could still happen but even the creator of ARMS favors Min Min.

Either way I see Spring Man remaining an AT - he’s definitely less interesting from a gameplay perspective compared to the other ARMS fighters so I can see the most basic ARMS character being an AT while the fan fave is playable

 

[fogbadge]

I. Know.

well then you know its not nintnedo being nintendo

 

[Proceleon]

well then you know its not nintnedo being nintendo

When I say 'Nintendo' I'm including Sakurai in the equation, since he's affiliated with them.

I don’t see why it’s such a big deal as if people are crazy idiots for believing so.

It's not that it's a big deal, it's that people are jumping on the playable Spirit/AT bandwagon WAY too quickly. Again, counting their chickens before they've hatched, when the simple fact is it could go either way.
Can't say I don't admire the optimism, but without knowing who it is, it's kind of over the top.