Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

Honestly…why not just redact characters who didn’t get any representation?

Like, keep the characters who got spirits/costumes and all that alongside who got in, but just redact certain characters. Seems like the best solution to me.

Implying Shrek will let you redact him

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, true.
I think my salt comes from the years of Competitive Bayo, and how she basically sucked the fun of the game from me, and that shame of an evo finals.

I'm sorry.
Bayo is great, I love her games and can't wait for Bayo 3, but the rendition of Bayo in Smash 4 made me sick.

I should move on, even more after hearing my all time favorite did win it. but I'm just having Vietnam flashback just thinking and talking about this damn Ballot toxics times back then, AND the competitive nature of the characters.

Sorry!

It's ok, we're all gonna hate Sora and claim he was a fraud ballot pick 6 years from now.


Also

Vlad (or Isaac

Bruh I must have missed the part where Isaac was a ****ing vampire, or is this just a storybeat that exists in the French version?

 

[Nekoo]

It's ok, we're all gonna hate Sora and claim he was a fraud ballot pick 6 years from now.

I'll still fight you all for the Mickey Mouse keychains 6 years from now if he becomes a toxic competitive threat xoxoxoxo

Bruh I must have missed the part where Isaac was a ****ing vampire, or is this just a storybeat that exists in the French version?

Lmao, I have no Idea why they changed his name to Vlad either, trust me, it was weird coming in this website and seeing everyone talk about Isaac until I saw that it was Vlad's english name

 

[Will]

Honestly…why not just redact characters who didn’t get any representation?

Like, keep the characters who got spirits/costumes and all that alongside who got in, but just redact certain characters. Seems like the best solution to me.

I don't know how sensitive the information is, Sakurai seemed pretty serious when he meant revealing the information would make licensing and obtaining characters more difficult. I don't understand the impact but he has his reasons I guess.

Some people won't rest until they know if Crash made Top 10, or something. Then again, this was before N. Sane Trilogy...

 

[Ivander]

Honestly…why not just redact characters who didn’t get any representation?

Like, keep the characters who got spirits/costumes and all that alongside who got in, but just redact certain characters. Seems like the best solution to me.

So what would happen if we saw Isaac, who's an Assist Trophy, in the Top 10? Or Geno, who's a Spirit, in the Top 10?

It's really best not to. Because the so-called Smash fans will find a way to complain, pester or hound, one way or another.

 

[Nekoo]

So what would happen if we saw Isaac, who's an Assist Trophy, in the Top 10? Or Geno, who's a Spirit, in the Top 10?

It's really best not to. Because the so-called Smash fans will find a way to complain, pester or hound, one way or another.

Then how about giving the real ranking from characters who got in thanks to the ballot?

We know Sora Won in general.
We know K.Rool and Banjo probably did super amazing
We know Castlevania was choosen thanks to the Ballot
We know that Cloud/FF characters had a lots of Votes with 1/3 being just for Cloud
And we know that Bayonetta was high enough for them to A) Make her in when the others were saved for Ultimate who was being developped at the same time/ Amongst realizable characters B) pass it as a ballot vote when already working on it

So that would still be interesting to know their real placing yknow

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know how sensitive the information is, Sakurai seemed pretty serious when he meant revealing the information would make licensing and obtaining characters more difficult. I don't understand the impact but he has his reasons I guess.

Some people won't rest until they know if Crash made Top 10, or something. Then again, this was before N. Sane Trilogy...

I mean. We all assumed Disney would be impossible to work with but I think a big part of why they managed to get away with getting Sora is because they didn't tell Disney "Hey this is literally the most popular character we could possibly add, 90% of our fans want him". It gives the third party more weight, meaning they can ask for more. Alternatively, third parties seem to be "If we want them, we'll come to you" deal now instead of the "Hey Sakurai old friend, my son would love Snake in the game, want to use him?" So Nintendo may otherwise get absolutely bombarded internally by this

 

[Geno Boost]

Which character do you think will make everyone happy?
The characters that have been added without seeing anyone disappointed so far are

 

[Will]

I mean. We all assumed Disney would be impossible to work with but I think a big part of why they managed to get away with getting Sora is because they didn't tell Disney "Hey this is literally the most popular character we could possibly add, 90% of our fans want him". It gives the third party more weight, meaning they can ask for more. Alternatively, third parties seem to be "If we want them, we'll come to you" deal now instead of the "Hey Sakurai old friend, my son would love Snake in the game, want to use him?" So Nintendo may otherwise get absolutely bombarded internally by this

That is absolutely true, nowadays I can totally see some ******** company trying to squeeze Nintendo dry from licensing fees just to use someone. Or maybe they already have, who knows? That budget quickly drained up somewhere.

 

[Nekoo]

Which character do you think will make everyone happy?
The characters that have been added without seeing anyone disappointed so far are

Literally everyone wanted him, and broke Steve's record on Twitter in numbers of tweet.
Only like, people who were hardcore fans wanting another characters, or the three guys at the end of the classroom who think Disney are satanist and the ante-christs aren't fine with how they handled his reveal , or how he's in the game.

 

[Will]

Which character do you think will make everyone happy?

Off the top of my head I want to say characters like or Master Chief.

 

[Geno Boost]

Literally everyone wanted him, and broke Steve's record on Twitter in numbers of tweet.
Only like, people who were hardcore fans wanting another characters, or the three guys at the end of the classroom who think Disney are satanist and the ante-christs aren't fine with how they handled his reveal , or how he's in the game.

I have seen disappointed reaction for Sora though

 

[Nekoo]

I have seen disappointed reaction for Sora though

And yet, he won the ballot, was the most wanted character, and he's probably the only character I saw 60% of the reaction having people in complete tears over him with the 39% Being hyped and 1% being disappointed

 

[ForsakenM]

I'm gonna be honest, I feel Sora was planned to be the final character pretty early on, it'sa crazy tinfoil hat theory, but Lifelight's opening lyrics fit perfectly with the visuals used for Sora's trailer and I think the whole 'everyone becomes a trophy' part is meant to represent the ****ing Waking stuff from 3D and III.


You know, I don't like Sora but I sure do know a ****ton about his series. Weird.


Also when I said bottom of the barrel last night, I'm not saying every first party is bottom of the barrel, just that the days where people could get excited over Starman from Urban Championship, Trax, Custom Robo, Muddy Mole, Komurasaki, Mike Jones and more could cause genuine excitement across the fanbase beyond "Oh, isn't it so fun to learn of these obscure oldschool games that have no future even after getting characters in Smash". They're a hard sell and I don't think it's an exaggeration that most people just prefer characters they're actually familiar with, especially, and here's the big one, if we have to pay extra to get them. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume everyone who bemoans how 'oversaturated' third parties are has also played at least what, 20 games that aren't owned by Nintendo? Besides, for DLC, we already went through **** like ATs which hurts the perspective of characters so when we get Super Smash Bros Kerfuffle for the Nintendo Z in 6 years, you just know characters like Isaac and Waluigi will become the biggest characters discussed until we see their fate, it's not like first parties are a dying breed

Feel free to connect that to the Waking, but it's pretty clear that this was setup to be the final Ultimate trailer. So, them all turning into trophies is signifying the end of the constant updates to the game and they are now going to rest. There is no one else to welcome to Smash, the fire in the logo fading away also symbolizes this, and the fact that Mario wakes up for just one last time...this trailer could have been just like this for whoever the last character was.

He could have thrown a rifle for Chief, BFG for Doom Guy, swords for any number of characters.

Also you brought up Custom Robo, and it hurts me big time to think that the series is dead. Was just streaming the Gamecube release to a friend earlier, man it's so much fun.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Literally everyone wanted him, and broke Steve's record on Twitter in numbers of tweet.
Only like, people who were hardcore fans wanting another characters, or the three guys at the end of the classroom who think Disney are satanist and the ante-christs aren't fine with how they handled his reveal , or how he's in the game.

The fact Alex popped up as I forget how to clear cache on my phone makes this one post in particular ****ing hilarious

I have seen disappointed reaction for Sora though

Literally every character gets that regardless of popularity, I can say I only saw like 5 people upset with Sora which is much less than anyone else I've seen get disappointment

 

[N3ON]

But there's really no point to speculating it since we will never truly know whether it's right or wrong, since the Smash Ballot will not be revealed. Bayonetta's placement could be correct and people would still ***** about it. Cause people definitely would've with Sora if we saw the results with Sora at Number 1.

Some... but... definitely less than Bayo. Even back then I think Sora would've been a more plausible character to reach number one, and that's, for better or for worse (answer: worse), who people were expecting to get the spot. The most popular character. As mistaken an interpretation of the ballot as it might've been, I think Sora probably would've been more palatable to the mob.

Also if we were to trim out all the conversations that didn't matter this place would just be a news feed.

Also, Ridley? Castlevania? King K.Rool? Chrom? Dark Samus? Banjo & Kazooie? We learned more about the Ballot when it was mentioned that those characters were influenced by the Ballot.

And I'm sure we talked about it then too.

 

[Shroob]

Feel free to connect that to the Waking, but it's pretty clear that this was setup to be the final Ultimate trailer. So, them all turning into trophies is signifying the end of the constant updates to the game and they are now going to rest. There is no one else to welcome to Smash, the fire in the logo fading away also symbolizes this, and the fact that Mario wakes up for just one last time...this trailer could have been just like this for whoever the last character was.

He could have thrown a rifle for Chief, BFG for Doom Guy, swords for any number of characters.

Also you brought up Custom Robo, and it hurts me big time to think that the series is dead. Was just streaming the Gamecube release to a friend earlier, man it's so much fun.

Eh, we'll still get balance patches at a decent pace I imagine. Probably Promo spirits/events as well if I had to guess.


We pretty much have to get patches of some kind next year to add in Amiibo functionality, so we'll probably get balance patches throughout 2022.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have seen disappointed reaction for Sora though

I've seen disappointment for Banjo and K.Rool.

Anecdotes don't mean a lot.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Sugiyama passed away R.I.P.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'll still fight you all for the Mickey Mouse keychains 6 years from now if he becomes a toxic competitive threat xoxoxoxo



Lmao, I have no Idea why they changed his name to Vlad either, trust me, it was weird coming in this website and seeing everyone talk about Isaac until I saw that it was Vlad's english name

To go back a bit, I am really confused why Isaac got changed.

It's a Hebrew name used in a lot of countries with Christian backgrounds. Isaac shouldn't be a weird name for Europe.

Then again, Robin, his Japanese name also never needed to be changed either so...

 

[Shroob]

Sugiyama passed away R.I.P.

Sad that a human died
Can't say I liked him as a person though

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sugiyama passed away R.I.P.

Ah.

Not the nicest person (to put it nicely) but still RIP. You made some nice music.

 

[Nekoo]

Sugiyama passed away R.I.P.

His talent as an incredible musician and artist will be missed.
His human person will not be.

 

[Will]

Sugiyama passed away R.I.P.

Where did you hear this? I'm seeing this nowhere

 

[ZelDan]

Well...I guess we can expect good things with DQ's music from here on out then?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well...I guess we can expect good things with DQ's music from here on out then?

It means that the music will be handled much better. Plus, depending on who inherits the rights, Dragon Quest can become much easier to cooperate with. An in depth explanation is probably this video

Gonna put a CW as Sugiyama's awful, awful views get mentioned at some point

 

[Guynamednelson]

Well...I guess we can expect good things with DQ's music from here on out then?

Guess I can't say Koichi will be an obstacle in making Everyone Is Here 2 a reality.

 

[Will]

作曲家のすぎやまこういち氏（本名：椙山 浩一）が、2021年9月30日、逝去されました。90歳でした。すぎやまこういち氏の生前のご功績に対する心からの敬意と感謝とともに、謹んで哀悼の意を表します。

— ドラゴンクエスト宣伝担当 (@DQ_PR) October 7, 2021

Oh ****. Well, at least DQXII's music might be banging. Wasn't expecting to end my night like this.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How are they going to handle DQXII's music anyway? Which Japanese composer is a big enough DQ fan to take the throne?

 

[DarthEnderX]

But there's really no point to speculating it since we will never truly know whether it's right or wrong, since the Smash Ballot will not be revealed.

Too bad it wasn't in that big Nintendo data leak.

 

[ForsakenM]

And yet, he won the ballot, was the most wanted character, and he's probably the only character I saw 60% of the reaction having people in complete tears over him with the 39% Being hyped and 1% being disappointed

Yeah it makes sense that Sora won the ballot for new comers. Like c'mon, He's SORA!

Then how about giving the real ranking from characters who got in thanks to the ballot?

We know Sora Won in general.
We know K.Rool and Banjo probably did super amazing
We know Castlevania was choosen thanks to the Ballot
We know that Cloud/FF characters had a lots of Votes with 1/3 being just for Cloud
And we know that Bayonetta was high enough for them to A) Make her in when the others were saved for Ultimate who was being developped at the same time/ Amongst realizable characters B) pass it as a ballot vote when already working on it

So that would still be interesting to know their real placing yknow

Where is this 1/3 of the FF votes in the ballot went to Cloud? I never heard about this before, either that or I missed it.

Also, let us not forget that Ridley and Waluigi likely did well, but Sakurai thought Waluigi was a meme. I'm sure he knows different now.

Other things to consider for the next Smash are:

• Geno did well enough to get acknowledged and get a costume and have it return. Getting this out of the way for the rest of y'all, but it needs to be said. The Great Square List O' Requests shrinketh greatly.
  
  
• Lloyd was acknowledged by Sakurai as well in Smash 4, his costume also returned. Thing could change with Arise or other future Tales Of games, but Sakurai seems to feel that Lloyd takes precedence.
  
  
• Sakurai mentioned that people wanted Dante, Dragonborn and Shantae as playable characters after their costume reveal. I think they all have a great chance in the future, especially Dante.
  
  
• Travis's chances are pretty good for a new game I would say.
  
  
• I think Bomberman, if we get more Konami, is probably the most pushed character for them right now.
  
  
• Shovel Knight got an AT from the ballot, so he might be next in line, but there are lots of other indies running about now. I think we should keep in mind popular indie characters.

These are just my current, rushed thoughts. I can't help but think about the future of Smash since it's basically been a big part of my life since Smash 4's DLC started, and I still can't shake the feeling that we won't be off the train for that long.

 

[Shroob]

How are they going to handle DQXII's music anyway? Which Japanese composer is a big enough DQ fan to take the throne?

Narita, "Leave it to me!"

 

[Nekoo]

Where is this 1/3 of the FF votes in the ballot went to Cloud? I never heard about this before, either that or I missed it.

There you go. For the Nomura x Sakurai interview

Right here on Sourcegaming

Also it wasn't 1/3 but 1/4 mea culpa, but still, Cloud had 1/4 of the FF vote just for himself

 

[Shroob]

作曲家のすぎやまこういち氏（本名：椙山 浩一）が、2021年9月30日、逝去されました。90歳でした。すぎやまこういち氏の生前のご功績に対する心からの敬意と感謝とともに、謹んで哀悼の意を表します。

— ドラゴンクエスト宣伝担当 (@DQ_PR) October 7, 2021

Oh ****. Well, at least DQXII's music might be banging. Wasn't expecting to end my night like this.

He was a great composer


But a trash human


That's the nicest thing I can muster

 

[DarthEnderX]

Literally everyone wanted him

I didn't WANT him, but I'm glad he's here. As now, at least, he's no longer in the way of characters I DO want.

How are they going to handle DQXII's music anyway? Which Japanese composer is a big enough DQ fan to take the throne?

I dunno about "big" enough. But there's plenty good enough.

Yasunori Mitsuda gets my vote.

 

[BlondeLombax]

He was a great composer


But a trash human


That's the nicest thing I can muster

Honestly, that's the best way anybody can word it. Sure, he composed for the crown jewel of the Japanese game industry, but he was also extremely stingy (and let's not even get started on humanitarian issues). All this does is leave me wondering who the rights to his music are going to, considering his stranglehold on it was the reason why MIDIs of his songs are almost always used.

 

[ForsakenM]

There you go. For the Nomura x Sakurai interview

Right here on Sourcegaming

Also it wasn't 1/3 but 1/4 mea culpa, but still, Cloud had 1/4 of the FF vote just for himself

Ah, thank you. I meant to say that I forgot rather than missed it, but it's late so I repeated myself instead.

Turns out I did see this and in fact did forget, as I used this as an argument before with people complaining that it wasn't Terra or Tidus.

One thing I would like to know as a Geno Bro is how other Square characters compared with him in the Ballot. I can only imagine that since certain characters like Sora and Cloud outdid him that I imagine Sephiroth and Erdrick probably did as well, but what about names like Lara Croft or Neku? I mean, when Sakurai comes out and talks about the character you want and says he got a lot of votes and he failed to include him for years so he got a costume for him, what does that compare to? Does that mean Geno outdid all these other Square characters, or does it mean that he did well considering how niche he is?

Like, if you think that Cloud makes up for 1/4 of all the FF votes and was likely voted for more than Geno was, how many votes did these other FF characters get? Maybe it's way more spread out, perhaps even to the point where Geno outdid names like Sephiroth?

My curiosity stems from trying to get an idea of what support for my boi looks like in the rawest of numbers we can likely ever get. My thought process has always been that Geno is niche and his audience is small, but everywhere I turn it seems there are more of us than I thought and we are making a bigger impact than it seems.

Also, I would like to see if K. Rool got second place, and if Cloud made Top Ten.

Actually, it would kinda just be cool to see who placed where, honestly.

 

[Nekoo]

Ah, thank you. I meant to say that I forgot rather than missed it, but it's late so I repeated myself instead.

Turns out I did see this and in fact did forget, as I used this as an argument before with people complaining that it wasn't Terra or Tidus.

One thing I would like to know as a Geno Bro is how other Square characters compared with him in the Ballot. I can only imagine that since certain characters like Sora and Cloud outdid him that I imagine Sephiroth and Erdrick probably did as well, but what about names like Lara Croft or Neku? I mean, when Sakurai comes out and talks about the character you want and says he got a lot of votes and he failed to include him for years so he got a costume for him, what does that compare to? Does that mean Geno outdid all these other Square characters, or does it mean that he did well considering how niche he is?

Like, if you think that Cloud makes up for 1/4 of all the FF votes and was likely voted for more than Geno was, how many votes did these other FF characters get? Maybe it's way more spread out, perhaps even to the point where Geno outdid names like Sephiroth?

My curiosity stems from trying to get an idea of what support for my boi looks like in the rawest of numbers we can likely ever get. My thought process has always been that Geno is niche and his audience is small, but everywhere I turn it seems there are more of us than I thought and we are making a bigger impact than it seems.

Also, I would like to see if K. Rool get second place, and if Cloud made Top Ten.

Actually, it would kinda just be cool to see who placed where, honestly.

Honestly, I genuinely think Geno did well.
He got a Costume in 4, Spirit in Ultimate, and Costume back in DLC.
I just think that...Sadly, others characters took priorities.

 

[ForsakenM]

Honestly, I genuinely think Geno did well.
He got a Costume in 4, Spirit in Ultimate, and Costume back in DLC.
I just think that...Sadly, others characters took priorities.

Oh yeah, by all means.

A lot of my fellow Geno Bros get incredibly salty when another Square Enix character gets in before him, and I'm just over here like 'Well, which ones are they?'

Like, realistically, Sakurai has made the right choice each time when it comes to Square. Cloud is a no-brainer, DQ should have been in decades ago, Sephiroth is a shoe-in (though I hate that his inclusion stems from patching up Cloud's content), and if there was any that you could get Disney to say yes to Sora then you would be a fool not to go for him.

I feel like I can save my salt for if we start to get characters from other dead Square series before Geno, because at that point there is clearly an issue with the character in some regard.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How are they going to handle DQXII's music anyway? Which Japanese composer is a big enough DQ fan to take the throne?

The video I linked mentions something about that, I believe the FFX composer is speculated to get the rights