Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DaybreakHorizon]

So what was everyone's favorite art splash?

Ridley Hits the Big Time!
Simon Lashes Out!
Richter Crosses Over!
Chrom Joins the Battle!!!/Dark Samus Joins the Battle!!!
King K. Rool Comes Aboard!
Isabelle Turns Over A New Leaf!
Ken Turns Up the Heat!
Incineroar Enters the Ring!
Piranha Plant Pipes Up!
Joker Steals the Show!
The Hero Draws Near!
Banjo-Kazooie Are Raring To Go!
Terry Faces the Fury!
Byleth Joins Smash House!/Byleth Recruits...Byleth!
Min Min Arms Herself!
Steve Rocks the Block!
Alex Swaps In!
Zombie Spawns In!
Enderman Steps from the Shadows!
Sephiroth Descends to Battle!
Pyra Blazes Into Battle!
Mythra Awakens!
Kazuya Gets Ready For The Next Battle!
Sora Is Finally Here!

Do you even have to ask me?

Take a guess at which one is my favorite.

 

[Will]

So what was everyone's favorite art splash?

Ridley Hits the Big Time!

They made a ****ing "too big" reference just to rub it in, you can't top that.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Btw this ballot legitimacy argument reminds me how TF2 fans spread a Smash poll among other TF2 fans and suddenly a lot more people wanted TF2 in Smash than other fan polls shown, the conclusion to this was that the TF2 fans clearly just botted the character instead of genuinely voting for Heavy and spreading the poll to places that aren't hardcore diehard Smash fans

 

[Shroob]

Btw this ballot legitimacy argument reminds me how TF2 fans spread a Smash poll among other TF2 fans and suddenly a lot more people wanted TF2 in Smash than other fan polls shown, the conclusion to this was that the TF2 fans clearly just botted the character instead of genuinely voting for Heavy and spreading the poll to places that aren't hardcore diehard Smash fans

To be fair though, as a member of r/tf2, they absolutely organized raids on Smash fan polls "For the lulz".


They love ****posting.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair though, as a member of r/tf2, they absolutely organized raids on Smash fan polls "For the lulz".


They love ****posting.

At the same time, at least 70% of those people would go "Oh **** that's really cool" if Heavy was announced lmao

 

[PLATINUM7]

Because literally no one in their right mind can believe Bayonetta, Sakurai just threw Europe under the bus that she's number 3, and yet Europe looked at itself confused at what happened.
Also third amongst "Realizable characters" when her early data were found AS EARLY AS NOT EVEN A MONTHS AFTER THE BALLOT STARTED (With slots for ZSS/Ike and Mario , where ZSS became Bayonetta, Ike became Cloud, and Mario became Corrin) made it even more hard to believe

People called bs even before the datamined findings came to light.

I guess the sheer difference in popularity makes Sora winning a lot more believable.

 

[N3ON]

And so.

My signature is now complete.

The full roster in chronological order, complete with correct placings for alt costume characters and different gender options.

This is our roster. It's pretty darn special.

Just nice to get another character/series from the 00s again

“Oh you’re working with Nomura on Sora? Here’s $10,000 for Sephiroth add him too.”

"For $10,000, you may have Tidus"

It's like the guy who went to Sakurai and said "Surely, you can do Steve from Minecraft" like their kids been begging for it endlessly and they're just tired.

"Hey dad, can you get Snake in Smash?"

20 years later

v. v. v. v. v. v. v.

 

[Will]

Man it would be dope if Heavy Weapons Guy was in Smash. I don't think it'll ever happen but that's what dreams are for.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People called bs even before the datamined findings came to light.

I guess the sheer difference in popularity makes Sora winning a lot more believable.

I think it's cause people who wanted Bayonetta were very quiet as there were placed in Smash 4 speculation where Bayo was genuinely one of the biggest community wants like NeoGAF or tumblr yet people refuse to shut the hell up about Sora wherever you go

 

[SharkLord]

I'm gonna be honest, I feel Sora was planned to be the final character pretty early on, it'sa crazy tinfoil hat theory, but Lifelight's opening lyrics fit perfectly with the visuals used for Sora's trailer and I think the whole 'everyone becomes a trophy' part is meant to represent the ****ing Waking stuff from 3D and III.


You know, I don't like Sora but I sure do know a ****ton about his series. Weird.

Also the fact that he was the winner of the ballot, which was used for SSB4's final DLC and SSBU's base game simultaneously, and influenced Banjo's addition as well. It honestly wouldn't be too far-fetched to imagine Sakurai looked at Sora's name at the top of the results while planning out Ultimate and vowed to make sure he'd be the finisher, even if he wasn't realizable for Smash 4's DLC cycle.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I didn't want to try to keep up with reactions here. Can anyone summarize how Sora fans feel about his implementation, especially the lack of Disney elements?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I didn't want to try to keep up with reactions here. Can anyone summarize how Sora fans feel about his implementation, especially the lack of Disney elements?

They're ecstatic.

Does this really need to be asked?

 

[N3ON]

Could also just be because Bayo clearly wasn't the most popular character during the ballot phase. Not that she was unpopular, it's just that she wasn't popular enough to be believably passed off as the most popular. Just by the way they explained her you could obviously tell she wasn't the most popular.

I don't know why people are defending Bayo's placement like she was the most popular when we empirically know she wasn't, but ok.

Though that's not how the ballot even claimed it was going to work. Nowhere did they say the most popular character is automatically going to be included. It did not pretend to be a straightforward election, it was always presented like an election mixed with a suggestion box. Whoever got in due to the ballot was a "ballot winner", not necessarily the character that placed first. Didn't stop people though.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Could also just be because Bayo clearly wasn't the most popular character during the ballot phase. Not that she was unpopular, it's just that she wasn't popular enough to be believably passed off as the most popular. Just by the way they explained her you could obviously tell she wasn't the most popular.

I don't know why people are defending Bayo's placement like she was the most popular when we empirically know she wasn't, but ok.

Though that's not how the ballot even claimed it was going to work. Nowhere did they say the most popular character is automatically going to be included. It did not pretend to be a straightforward election, it was always presented like an election mixed with a suggestion box. Whoever got in due to the ballot was a "ballot winner", not necessarily the character that placed first. Didn't stop people though.

I don't think I've ever claimed she was the most popular character in the ballot.

I just believe their claims about her placement.

 

[Nekoo]

Also, Amongst realizable character, since the ballot was used for Ultimate
You could have all of the veterant, Sora, Geno, K.Rool, Banjo and others ranking super high, and then Bayonetta being like ranked 35, but still technically being 3 out of the realizable ones

 

[N3ON]

I don't think I've ever claimed she was the most popular character in the ballot.

I just believe their claims about her placement.

No, I've just seen people rationalize her selection by stating she was more popular among the fanbase than she likely was.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think I've ever claimed she was the most popular character in the ballot.

I just believe their claims about her placement.

Yeah, I especially remember French communities being vocal about her. Hell, I think we also forget that one of the biggest Smash youtubers around back on Smash 4 had said Bayo was his most wanted too back in the day. Kind of breaks my heart when people act like Bayo was never beloved just because she clearly had circumstances around her, like, weren't you the one who theorized that Bayo was already getting worked on before the Ballot showed she was super popular before deciding to go "Alright we'll use her for this and the rest for later"?

 

[Mamboo07]

I kind of like watching this:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah, I especially remember French communities being vocal about her. Hell, I think we also forget that one of the biggest Smash youtubers around back on Smash 4 had said Bayo was his most wanted too back in the day. Kind of breaks my heart when people act like Bayo was never beloved just because she clearly had circumstances around her, like, weren't you the one who theorized that Bayo was already getting worked on before the Ballot showed she was super popular before deciding to go "Alright we'll use her for this and the rest for later"?

I did bring that theory up yeah.

I have no way of proving it though.

 

[Nekoo]

I did bring that theory up yeah.

I have no way of proving it though.

I mean, how about the data of Zss/Ike/Mario added less than a months after the ballot started becoming bayo/Cloud/Corrin?
That's the one thing I'm so...Confused about, you have a ballot supposed to last for so long, and then, not even a months later, you already legally decided and working on the characters?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I did bring that theory up yeah.

I have no way of proving it though.

Ah but Swamp, dear friend...


It has no way of being disproven either

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean, how about the data of Zss/Ike/Mario added less than a months after the ballot started becoming bayo/Cloud/Corrin?
That's the one thing I'm so...Confused about, you have a ballot supposed to last for so long, and then, not even a months later, you already legally decided and working on the characters?

I think one thing is wrong with what you're saying.

Wasn't it Ryu in the data? I thought Corrin's data was added later than the others.

 

[Nekoo]

I think one thing is wrong with what you're saying.

Wasn't it Ryu in the data? I thought Corrin's data was added later than the others.

Nah, it was after Ryu and Roy were found.
They found data for ZSS/Ike and yeah a tiny bit later Mario
Zss's data becoming Bayo
Ike's data becoming Cloud
and Mario's data becoming Corrin

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, how about the data of Zss/Ike/Mario added less than a months after the ballot started becoming bayo/Cloud/Corrin?
That's the one thing I'm so...Confused about, you have a ballot supposed to last for so long, and then, not even a months later, you already legally decided and working on the characters?

The idea is that they already started working on Bayo, then saw she was high on the ballot and thought "We're already doing this so might as well go all out with her and keep the rest for later". It doesn't contradict either claims

 

[Nekoo]

The idea is that they already started working on Bayo, then saw she was high on the ballot and thought "We're already doing this so might as well go all out with her and keep the rest for later". It doesn't contradict either claims

I guess that work, also, she was famous in the french community?
I don't remember that, I was there, and generally, it was more Vlad (or Isaac for the US name) , Rayman, Sora, Banjo, K.Rool and Dante that I saw coming up again and again on french forums and in twitter

But if you say so, I believe you!

 

[PLATINUM7]

I mean, how about the data of Zss/Ike/Mario added less than a months after the ballot started becoming bayo/Cloud/Corrin?
That's the one thing I'm so...Confused about, you have a ballot supposed to last for so long, and then, not even a months later, you already legally decided and working on the characters?

I guess some possible reasons are:

1. The ballot was always intended to be used to plan the next game
2. For development time reasons, they settled on interim results
3. Looking at the results as they came in changed plans as to what the votes would be used for

 

[Ivander]

I don't know why people are defending Bayo's placement like she was the most popular when we empirically know she wasn't, but ok.

That statement holds true to the opposite though.
I don't know why people are questioning Bayo's placement like she wasn't the most popular when we empirically knew she wasn't, but ok.

Like really, there is no point to be debating this still. The only reason you have people constantly *****ing about Bayo's placement is either because some people did not see or don't remember it being clearly stated, or the common factor that is, trying to be the one who's in the right. And that applies to people who care And don't care other than being on the right side. Which is petty.
We are on the next Smash game with plenty of awesome characters and plenty of fan-wanted ones. We have Ridley, King K. Rool, Joker, Banjo, Sephiroth, Steve and Sora to talk about. At this point, talking about Bayonetta's placement should be dust in the wind. Only pettiness is the reason this redundant argument about a video game and one playable character from it is still on-going.

 

[DarthEnderX]

"realizable character" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

A realizable character for Smash 4 could literally mean "character we we were already working on anyway".

"1st Worldwide *among realizable characters" = "1st Worldwide character we'd already decided to add"

So...grats on beating Corrin I guess?

 

[PSIGuy]

An official breakdown on how ballot results were reflected in Smash would be interesting. Obviously they'd have to exclude things that -didn't- get in as well as any exact numbers but just saying "we made this spirit evolve cause people seem to like em" would be neat.

 

[Will]

Bayo is cool, I just liked the fact that I was actually right when I first called it sus. That is all. There is no malice, no aggression, no seething, no petty revenge. I just called it right on and it is what it is. We got both Bayo and Sora, both parties are happy, and that's how it should be.

I don't take it personally, some of y'all are getting weird with it tho.

 

[Nekoo]

Honestly, true.
I think my salt comes from the years of Competitive Bayo, and how she basically sucked the fun of the game from me, and that shame of an evo finals.

I'm sorry.
Bayo is great, I love her games and can't wait for Bayo 3, but the rendition of Bayo in Smash 4 made me sick.

I should move on, even more after hearing my all time favorite did win it. but I'm just having Vietnam flashback just thinking and talking about this damn Ballot toxics times back then, AND the competitive nature of the characters.

Sorry!

 

[FreeFox]

Shh.

It's because of the KH lore.
Everyone is either Sora or Xehanort one way or another in the end.

Even the players arent safe from being Xehanort.
Wait should that be in a spoiler?

 

[Dan Quixote]

I didn't want to try to keep up with reactions here. Can anyone summarize how Sora fans feel about his implementation, especially the lack of Disney elements?

Actually yeah I just realized I haven't seen talk of implementation discussed much, moveset wise. Do Sora fans think he looks fun to play and stuff or did they maybe want something a bit less floaty?

 

[Will]

Sakurai: challenge accepted

yes i know what you meant

Falcon alone took Robin's reveal trailer and made it a god-tier reveal imo. People may not remember but Falcon wasn't even confirmed for Smash 4 at this time; people were even speculating that he was going to be cut from the game since there weren't any F-Zero games made for like the past decade. It also helps that his animations were buttery smooth.

Like damn you can feel the impact on that ****.

 

[Nekoo]

Actually yeah I just realized I haven't seen talk of implementation discussed much, moveset wise. Do Sora fans think he looks fun to play and stuff or did they maybe want something a bit less floaty?

Looks straight up from Kingdom Hearts, if it got a remake and lifting 20 years later.

Aka Perfection.

 

[N3ON]

That statement holds true to the opposite though.
I don't know why people are questioning Bayo's placement like she wasn't the most popular when we empirically knew she wasn't, but ok.

Because knowing she wasn't the most popular still doesn't tell you how she really stacked up against everyone else who also wasn't #1. Especially since the quantity of "unrealizable" characters is highly ambiguous.

Also people are talking about it because we literally just learned more about the ballot. Before this, we weren't.

 

[Simnm]

I wonded Who were the one or two fighters sakurai was planning to add originally before fighters pass 2 was planned

 

[Nekoo]

I wonded Who were the one or two fighters sakurai was planning to add originally before fighters pass 2 was planned

Steve is probably one since we knows it was in talks for years.
Sora is probably the second for being the Ballot winner and hard request.
Then they went **** it let's do a whole pass.

 

[Ivander]

Because knowing she wasn't the most popular still doesn't tell you how she really stacked up against everyone else who also wasn't #1. Especially since the quantity of "unrealizable" characters is highly ambiguous.

Also people are talking about it because we literally just learned more about the ballot. Before this, we weren't.

But there's really no point to speculating it since we will never truly know whether it's right or wrong, since the Smash Ballot will not be revealed. Bayonetta's placement could be correct and people would still ***** about it. Cause people definitely would've with Sora if we saw the results with Sora at Number 1.

Also, Ridley? Castlevania? King K.Rool? Chrom? Dark Samus? Banjo & Kazooie? We learned more about the Ballot when it was mentioned that those characters were influenced by the Ballot.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

An official breakdown on how ballot results were reflected in Smash would be interesting. Obviously they'd have to exclude things that -didn't- get in as well as any exact numbers but just saying "we made this spirit evolve cause people seem to like em" would be neat.

Honestly…why not just redact characters who didn’t get any representation?

Like, keep the characters who got spirits/costumes and all that alongside who got in, but just redact certain characters. Seems like the best solution to me.