Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[kirbsmash]

Anybody here still holding on to Dante?

 

[Strife]

Yeah that could do it, after all she uses her hands A LOT in her home game her main appeal is her hair for grabbing and hitting, that's it. It doesn't change that like how Isabelle is basically almost similar to Villager

Her home being what? DKC 2 & 3? I don't recall her using her hands at all in those games. You're right that more of her hair should be in her A moves though.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Can't you believe you miss the joke lol

 

[cothero]

Anybody here still holding on to Dante?

Dante or Leon, although i'm not so confident about Leon after that RE spirit event.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah that could do it, after all she uses her hands A LOT in her home game her main appeal is her hair for grabbing and hitting, that's it. It doesn't change that like how Isabelle is basically almost similar to Villager

Isabelle couldn't even work as an Echo due to a fundamentally different bodyshape. That was the first issue. Having other various differences also helped, due to personality being... well, existing. As Villager is an actual blank slate. But sadly so is Pokemon Trainer, so.

This isn't an issue for Dixie. She can work as an Echo, with a few changed moves using her hair.

Doesn't mean she'd be one either, of course. I used to want her just as a semi-clone, but I honestly would prefer her to be partnered with a character like she was going to be in Brawl. I'm not picky as to whom, though. That said, I wouldn't be bothered if she was an Echo either.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Anybody here still holding on to Dante?

Go on like any wider Smash community than our little bubble here and you'll see that, as a whole, Dante is probably the most popular Capcom request.

There's nothing against him right now, and I definitely think he fits the bill of "hype character but not as hype as Steve or Sephiroth" that could be used to help cool down character reveals in this pass.

 

[kirbsmash]

Go on like any wider Smash community than our little bubble here and you'll see that, as a whole, Dante is probably the most popular Capcom request.

right, but i did say here though

 

[MagnesD3]

I'd say it's unfortunate, but I'm largely apathetic towards Bandana Dee. Is he a hat goomba? No. But I do think supporters overestimate his chances, especially given the large amount of representation the Kirby series already has and the large history it has to draw from.

Hey ay ay now, what’s wrong with being a hat goomba my brethren?!

Bes, show my man Goombario some respek

 

[RouffWestie]

I can't believe I'm missing Kirby discussion after playing nothing but Kirby games for the past 3 months.

 

[cothero]

Isabelle couldn't even work as an Echo due to a fundamentally different bodyshape. That was the first issue. Having other various differences also helped, due to personality being... well, existing. As Villager is an actual blank slate. But sadly so is Pokemon Trainer, so.

This isn't an issue for Dixie. She can work as an Echo, with a few changed moves using her hair.

Doesn't mean she'd be one either, of course. I used to want her just as a semi-clone, but I honestly would prefer her to be partnered with a character like she was going to be in Brawl. I'm not picky as to whom, though. That said, I wouldn't be bothered if she was an Echo either.

Dixie would be to Diddy what Isabelle is for Villager, a semi-clone at max. They spin differently, their grabs are different and Dixie can glide with her hair. I feel that the smash team could even find better excuses to make Shadow an echo of Sonic than make Dixie a Diddy full echo.

 

[osby]

Anybody here still holding on to Dante?

My brain says Chun-Li and Monster Hunter are more likely but my heart says he still has a chance.

But my biased DMC pick would be Nero

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Looks like I missed some Bandana Dee slander, dang.

A BWD reveal would definitely be a love-it-or-hate-it scenario but anyone who thinks he'd get anywhere near Byleth's reception is kidding themselves.

 

[SharkLord]

Seeing how the series peaked at Kirby Super Star Ultra (an incredible game, one of the DS' finest offerings) and just went downhill from there (well, Robobot was... okay, I suppose)... I don't share the frustration with regards to Kirby's representation being so skewed.

Excuse me 3DS Kirby was top tier how dare you

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dixie would be to Diddy what Isabelle is for Villager, a semi-clone at max. They spin differently, their grabs are different and Dixie can glide with her hair. I feel that the smash team could even find better excuses to make Shadow an echo of Sonic than make Dixie a Diddy echo.

Again, the problem wasn't just personality alone, but it was the fact they had different bodyshapes. Isabelle wouldn't have been an Echo even if her personality was almost the same as Villager. The issue was the bodyshape from the start. Apples to oranges comparison here.

Dixie works just fine as an Echo. She's literally Chrom-differences overall, as she can do nearly every single one of Diddy's moves. They actually have played similarly in the games. Almost all of those are pretty easy animation differences. She can glide with her hair and still be an Echo.

The reality is Echo just means "same bodyshape required" at best. That's why Ken is oddly labeled one despite clearly being way closer to Dr. Mario than even Chrom. Because he didn't need a skeleton change. Even DK himself has the same basic skeleton as Diddy and Dixie, making the hair spin not even difficult to implement. That's the only actual point I saw against a new Up B, but it's clear she can easily work as an Echo within development without a single issue.

Considering Shadow isn't an Echo, he's probably less likely due to being treated very differently in terms of power nowadays. It's honestly most likely Sega wasn't a fan of him not being unique. They've actually only portrayed him as different lately in the series, with only slightly being similar to Sonic. Frankly, I'm not even surprised he isn't playable. I'd expect Dixie an Echo much more easily over him, as Sega cares about his image a lottttt.

Dixie frankly was meant to come as a partner character. And that's a lot harder to do than King K. Rool, nor was plausible in Smash 4. I'm not surprised she's not playable yet, since the original plans fell through and there hasn't been a chance to keep up with that. The only other thing I'd expect is an Echo by now. I just don't see why she'd easily be a standalone semi-clone at this point. Nothing in development or Sakurai's statements support that.

 

[Flyboy]

Seeing how the series peaked at Kirby Super Star Ultra (an incredible game, one of the DS' finest offerings) and just went downhill from there (well, Robobot was... okay, I suppose)... I don't share the frustration with regards to Kirby's representation being so skewed.

Planet Robobot is literally the best Kirby game since 64 with great powers, levels, gimmicks, and characters, but go off I guess??

Anyway, I'm biased. Put Susie in Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anybody here still holding on to Dante?

im kinda not feeling a Capcom rep so much anymore but if we did get one I'd prefer it be either Dante or Phoenix Wright

or if u REALLY wanna be adventurous, Viewtiful Joe

 

[Momotsuki]

The lack of some echoes that felt like shoe-ins at the time - Shadow, Octoling, ect ect.... Is it possible they were worried about the optics of too many echoes? I don't think it's justified but a lot of people would certainly find it to be a bad look.

 

[PeridotGX]

Kneecaps? What kneecaps?

What kneecaps?

EDIT: 'd

exactly. Bandana Dee was really thorough.

 

[SharkLord]

exactly. Bandana Dee was really thorough.

Bandana Dee forced Marx to grow kneecaps just so he could break them

 

[ahemtoday]

exactly. Bandana Dee was really thorough.

Dang. He really Megaton Punched Marx so hard that his kneecaps ceased to exist not only in the present, but also back in Kirby Super Star. Maybe instead of wishing for ultimate power, he should've asked for his kneecaps back...

 

[chocolatejr9]

Dang. He really Megaton Punched Marx so hard that his kneecaps ceased to exist not only in the present, but also back in Kirby Super Star. Maybe instead of wishing for ultimate power, he should've asked for his kneecaps back...

Don't mess with Kirby characters. They're top tier, even for top tier standards.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Anybody here still holding on to Dante?

I'm hoping for Dante, and I think it's still a possibility--but at this point given how FP2 has been going, I feel like Monster Hunter is more likely, even though I'd prefer new series without content in the game already.

Here are my wants and expectations, FP2 template by AShadowLink

Spoiler: Wants

While I believe Sora is dead, they're still my second want (second to Crash). Can't think of any alternative I'd want. Master Chief would break the internet, but Steve already did that. It's pretty ultimate when I can't think of new series I'd like to add.

Spoiler: Expectations

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

The lack of some echoes that felt like shoe-ins at the time - Shadow, Octoling, ect ect.... Is it possible they were worried about the optics of too many echoes? I don't think it's justified but a lot of people would certainly find it to be a bad look.

Pretty sure echoes are just a fancy name for what is essentially the Melee clone situation. New, decently popular characters that were easy to make and slap into the roster for padding. They were never meant to be a major focus of the game, more just a side dish alongside everything else.

 

[SharkLord]

On a side note I noticed there was some Morrigan discussion back there. I've been thinking of the series a little more lately. Perhaps a rundown of the games are in order.

 

[DanganZilla5]

So I was talking about this to someone in the Bandana Dee thread about peoples' reactions if Bandana Dee got in compared to their reactions to other DLC Nintendo characters and they said something like "They wasn't sure Dee would get a better response than Min Min because of Arms not being represented yet and Kirby already having 3 reps" which I kind of disagree. I think peoples' reactions to Dee would be close to their reactions to Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie. But how would you guys say people would react to Bandana Dee?

I would be chill with Dee. I would not be super hyped but I think he deserves a spot, honestly. Plus he has a spear which is cool and different.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I see we're still gonna have to deal with "Hat Goomba" in 2021. sigh

Ah well, Bandana Dee for Smash. Dixie Kong for Smash as well while we're at it. As far as I'm concerned, "base game pick" means that the character is just as good as any other but isn't as hype for the first 30 seconds of the trailer. But nobody can say that they wouldn't age well as choices.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Bionic Commando's thing was swinging right? Have Spencer summon flying nodes or something like what everyone and their mother suggested for Simon's recovery.

Her fighting style isn't shotokan so she literally cannot be a Shoto.

I guess something like that could work, but I think it would be cool if his bionic arm could pin-tether any part of the stage. And you get like 3 swings. It would be amazing if there was a character who could specialize in under the stage battles, even though that sounds unnecessary.

As for Morrigan,

What do you mean she’d be another0you mean she’s have inputs then just say that instead of calling her a playstyle that is the furthest thing from her

literal terminology aside, Shoto is just FGC term for any character who's special moves involve a hadouken like move, a shoryuken like, and a tatsumaki senpuukyaku. Inputs and all.

Morrigan has at least 2 of these. That's half the special moves.

However, her side+b could be that move where she hovers forward and command grabs opponent. Though would be fantastic to see her Morricide with the opponent when doing it offstage.

Don't let me rain on your parade if you're excited for her, maybe similarities stop on those two moves.

I would love most of these characters, but for the reasons I listed, their sweet reveals would have a pinch of sour for me, personally.

 

[SharkLord]

literal terminology aside, Shoto is just FGC term for any character who's special moves involve a hadouken like move, a shoryuken like, and a tatsumaki senpuukyaku. Inputs and all.

Morrigan has at least 2 of these. That's half the special moves.

To be fair that goes for a couple of character in Smash already if you stretch it enough. Mario and Luigi, definitely, Corrin and Zero Suit Samus if you get more liberal with the execution of the moves, and obviously Ryu and Ken. I feel like Morrigan would have enough aesthetic and moveset differences to set her apart.

 

[Awkwah]

I am just waiting for Sakurai to talk about the [Redacted] costume in one of his columns.

 

[Dinoman96]

I am just waiting for Sakurai to talk about the [Redacted] costume in one of his columns.

I don't think he's gonna address it lol

Didn't even say anything about it in Sephiroth's showcase, despite making a big deal of it back in the last Smash 4 presentation.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

View attachment 297040

 

[Awkwah]

I don't think he's gonna address it lol

Didn't even say anything about it in Sephiroth's showcase, despite making a big deal of it back in the last Smash 4 presentation.

I wouldn't think so either. But there was a bigger outcry than I thought there would be. So he might just be like "sorry not sorry" and continue on.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

View attachment 297040

Ahri

nice.

kinda doubt two s-e reps in the same pass though... maybe for pass 3 if it's a thing

 

[Dinoman96]

View attachment 297040

2/6 of the pass being dedicated to Square-Enix? That's a bold one.

 

[Guynamednelson]

On a side note I noticed there was some Morrigan discussion back there. I've been thinking of the series a little more lately. Perhaps a rundown of the games are in order.

Short answer: Street Fighter with monsters.

Long answer: It uses plenty of mechanics from Super Street Fighter II Turbo, but unlike it, characters could have multiple super moves which had different inputs from the SF series, alongside introducing staples of modern fighting games like EX special moves, chain combos, air blocking (These last two are particularly noteworthy for leading into Marvel Vs. Capcom, as are Darkstalkers' simpler super move inputs), and it even has fantastic animation (Warning: Link features Jedah decapitating himself.) Also you don't need to play the first game because Night Warriors is basically an expansion pack for it.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Tbh, the only reason I support underdog character like Zhao Yun as THE Koei Tecmo rep and Agumon as THE Bandai Namco rep is just that, I'm tired and bored. Tho it's really fun to wrestle with Hayabusa purist that Dynasty Warriors also played a significant role in the success of the company and with someone who doesn't know anything about DW that, just because the game is inspired by a real historical event and have the name of the characters based on a real life historical figure doesn't mean they're all handsome men in their early 30s and could wipe out a whole army in a single swipe

I basickly toss around Yuri and Don-chan because no one seems to give them the time of day because they woukd rather focus on Lloyd and what not and I think they deserve to recognition

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Don't let me rain on your parade if you're excited for her, maybe similarities stop on those two moves.

I'd say so. Darkstalkers is a really fast game, and Morrigan's mechanics will likely reflect on that. Her Soul Fist will likely not get much emphasis here (at least, I would hope we're not dealing with UMvC3 Morrigan), and it also acts differently in the air from how Ryu and Ken's Hadoukens do. Her Shadow Blade seems like it would be more of a traditional get off me move rather than a K.O. move. Her Vertical Dash will make her quite the aggressive character, perhaps even comboing like no other could, and the Dash Shift that comes with it would give her the best recovery of all of the fighting game characters (alongside the aerial stalling that Soul Fist gives her, and the horrizontal range that Shadow Blade can have).

And then, as you said, Vector Drain suicide attacks would be pretty fun, and just having a command grab would make her a threat to blocking characters in ways that Ryu and Ken aren't quite.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Dixie Kong makes a lot more sense as an echo though. She'd be terrible as a full fighter.

I CERTAINLY don’t think she would be a terrible full fighter by any means, she has plenty to make her stand out.

BUT, and I realize this is prolly a super hot take, I really think that her only remote hope for ultimate is as a diddy echo. I just don’t think she has the pull to stand as a full dlc on her own personally, she’s plenty iconic for sure, but I really don’t think sakurai has her as a pack. As such, I really think her only hope for this game is a Diddy echo with Ken-level differences. I mean, Diddy doesn’t have his tail attack anymore, just give her slightly different attributes, a different recovery and maybe a new grab and there ya go

 

[Dinoman96]

There has never been a Darkstalkers game released on Nintendo hardware before, has there?

Though I guess Morrigan kinda makes up for it by appearing in crossover games that have been on Nintendo, like Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and Project X Zone.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There has never been a Darkstalkers game released on Nintendo hardware before, has there?

Though I guess Morrigan kinda makes up for it by appearing in crossover games that have been on Nintendo, like Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and Project X Zone.

Wikipedia says the mainline games were on the following platforms:

Arcade, PlayStation, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, PlayStation Portable, Xbox 360

so yeah rip a mainline Nintendo appearance

then again if Cloud and Joker didn’t need a mainline game on Nintendo systems to get in...