Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Louie G.]

Street Fighter already has plenty of content. 2 characters, a stage, 36 music tracks, and a ton of spirits.

The thing about Street Fighter is that its representation is not as fulfilling as it would appear at first glance. You have 36 music tracks, but most of them are arcade ports and all of them are from Street Fighter 2. In general, SF’s content skews heavily in favor of SF2 - which makes sense, it’s the most important one, but leaves a very unfortunate hole where Alpha and SFIII love would be greatly appreciated.

Meanwhile you have people suggesting that Sonic, for example, is poorly represented and having almost everyone agree. But Sonic is fortunate enough to have its entire history represented in some form -the content is kinda lame, but you have songs from all through its history and a stage from both classic and modern era games. SF has an echo fighter (which is appreciated) and a bunch of 25 year old songs ported in, all based on or from SF2, and people get the illusion that it’s got it great. Which, if you’re someone who really loves SF and the content it has to offer like me, it’s very clear that there’s a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why the hype around Chun Li? You don’t think they’d give us a Street Fighter villain like M. Bison instead?

Typically, Chun-Li is Street Fighter rep number 2 in crossovers. Smash became an exception due to echo fighters.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Typically, Chun-Li is Street Fighter rep number 2 in crossovers. Smash became an exception due to echo fighters.

weren't Ryu and Ken always paired with each other in both Project X Zone games and Chun Li was an assist in 1? I think she was paired with Pai (from Sega's Virtua Fighter) in 2, not sure. Her or Xiaoyu from Tekken. and idk about the predecessor, Namco X Capcom

 

[DanganZilla5]

The thing about Street Fighter is that its representation is not as fulfilling as it would appear at first glance. You have 36 music tracks, but most of them are arcade ports and all of them are from Street Fighter 2. In general, SF’s content skews heavily in favor of SF2 - which makes sense, it’s the most important one, but leaves a very unfortunate hole where Alpha and SFIII love would be greatly appreciated.

Meanwhile you have people suggesting that Sonic, for example, is poorly represented and having almost everyone agree. But Sonic is fortunate enough to have its entire history represented in some form -the content is kinda lame, but you have songs from all through its history and a stage from both classic and modern era games. SF has an echo fighter (which is appreciated) and a bunch of 25 year old songs ported in, all based on or from SF2, and people get the illusion that it’s got it great. Which, if you’re someone who really loves SF and the content it has to offer like me, it’s very clear that there’s a lot of room for improvement.

Fair enough. It's just that Capcom has such a large library of great series that it would be a shame not to get another one in.

 

[RileyXY1]

The thing about Street Fighter is that its representation is not as fulfilling as it would appear at first glance. You have 36 music tracks, but most of them are arcade ports and all of them are from Street Fighter 2. In general, SF’s content skews heavily in favor of SF2 - which makes sense, it’s the most important one, but leaves a very unfortunate hole where Alpha and SFIII love would be greatly appreciated.

Meanwhile you have people suggesting that Sonic, for example, is poorly represented and having almost everyone agree. But Sonic is fortunate enough to have its entire history represented in some form -the content is kinda lame, but you have songs from all through its history and a stage from both classic and modern era games. SF has an echo fighter (which is appreciated) and a bunch of 25 year old songs ported in, all based on or from SF2, and people get the illusion that it’s got it great. Which, if you’re someone who really loves SF and the content it has to offer like me, it’s very clear that there’s a lot of room for improvement.

I don't think they care about that as much as the outright lack of FF content. I think that we are better off getting a brand new Capcom IP represented.

 

[Louie G.]

Fair enough. It's just that Capcom has such a large library of great series that it would be a shame not to get another one in.

I don't think they care about that as much as the outright lack of FF content. I think that we are better off getting a brand new Capcom IP represented.

I love many many series and characters from Capcom, so I’d be happy either way. I just also see a lot of value in adding Chun-Li and expanding on the SF content that feels sorely absent. As long as we get something from Capcom I’ll be a happy camper.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

bottom text

Me too.

I really don't get this.

Which part? Her being the most likely addition, her being a villain, or her being fun to play?

as the kirby lore expert, the mage sisters are no longer villains.

They are redeemed at the end of the endgame, but they are still villains throughout the plot of Kirby Star Allies, so they'd still count methinks. It's similar to how King Dedede is still counted as a villain even though he gave up that role (for the most part) after Kirby Super Star Ultra, which was quite a while ago.

Aha, so you have identified a major problem, it seems! Smash aside, we need more female villains in general, no?

Probably. I think the biggest barrier to that is the fact that villains tend to be on the tropey side, and there aren't very many female villain tropes. There's like, the evil enchantress, the dominatrix, and the manipulator (which is more gender neutral, though the females in this category don't tend to fail to function when not scheming unlike the males).

EDIT: That, and I imagine most attempts to diversify any given cast stop at the main party since that's who has the most screentime.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Other than someone once arguing that Lucina was a villain (why I will never know), no.

Honestly, I can't really think of a major female villain. There's like...The Ender Dragon? I guess?

As far as characters from existing franchises (that I know enough to list characters from) there's:

• Mother Brain, but she's not really a viable pick unless we were to go with MB which is...an idea.
• Kirby has Suzie and The Mage Sisters. That sounds like a rock band.
• Lusamine is probably the best villain in the Pokémon franchise...until they chickened out and rewrote the ending scenes in the ultra versions.
• Lots of people would like to see Medusa playable.
• Splash Woman...exists.
• The Dark Lord can steal the face of a woman. Not really sure if that makes it a girl or...
• Gruntilda would be interesting as a fighter.
• Dr. Coyle is the one with the highest likelihood of being added somewhere down the line. She would be pretty fun too.

Captain Syrup is argued to be the main antagonist of Wario Land, but...that's Wario Land. Not even Wario wants to really represent Wario Land much in Smash.

If Akira Howard had made it, Jena Anderson is a pretty good choice for Astral Chain but you'd need Officer Howard first.

I'd like to put GLaDoS out there as an iconic female antagonist, but I have no clue how she'd translate to anything bar a boss battle since she's...well largely stuck to a wall.

Only other female villains I can think of are either too minor, too unknown or likely would need the protagonist of the series in first.

There's the Nurses from Silent Hill, but there's absolutely no way those creepy corpses will get in over Pyramid Head if Silent Hill recieved a fighter. Could see them as Mii outfits though.

ah i see another person of culture

by the end of DLC I tbh expect EA to have SOME form of content, and I'd prefer it be from the Sims

Honestly if EA has anything, I hope it's Sims related.
There's a lot you could do with them and it's an off-beat idea that kinda makes sense when you consider how huge the Sims became for a while there.

 

[Strife]

This is a good time to share a hot take.

I get that Chun Li is iconic. She is a very important female character and character in general as she always appears alongside Ryu in crossovers. SF2 is a quintessential fighting game and one of the most iconic games of all time. I get that Chun Li would be a big deal and deserves a spot on the roster.

But I'm going to say that I would be disappointed if she gets in. Not just because I'm not a big Street Fighter fan, but also because Street Fighter already has plenty of content. 2 characters, a stage, 36 music tracks, and a ton of spirits. So It's not like it's starving for content like FF was. What about all of the other Capcom series that have zero representation? Ace Attorney, Devil May Cry, Ghosts n Goblins, Dead Rising, Okami, Final Fight, etc. I would much rather give one of those series a challenger pack than a series that already has plentiful content. It would just feel like a big missed opportunity you know? This is supposed to be the biggest crossover of all time. Why not give other franchises a shot?

I think a lot of people are more partial to the idea of a char from a preincldued franchise getting in because despite the initial surprise Sephiroth has for the most been well received.

I don't think they need to add characters for the sake expanding the crossover, I'm more concerned about what the character brings to the table, if they've had an impact on gaming and if they're cool. Assuming CP10 is a fighting game character Chun-Li is third on my list, with Akuma and Yoshimitsu being ahead of her. But of all the fighters I would concede she's probably the most likely at this point.

 

[kirbsmash]

Her being the most likely addition,

Also, outside of her creations and boss, we can't really say she's an villain.

 

[Momotsuki]

Also, outside of her creations and boss, we can't really say she's an villain.

I dunno, is there any evidence that Hedlok was supposed to be anything other than a bloodthirsty, violent parasite that just wants to beat the **** out of people using a stolen body?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well the balance changes will be coming soon.

There's virtually no chance of any hints being found in the code but someone should still check.

Even if we get another confusing code name that'll be at least two months of speculation right there.

 

[SpecterFlower]

They are redeemed at the end of the endgame, but they are still villains throughout the plot of Kirby Star Allies, so they'd still count methinks. It's similar to how King Dedede is still counted as a villain even though he gave up that role (for the most part) after Kirby Super Star Ultra, which was quite a while ago.

the only developer who still treats Dedede as a villain is Sakurai and he stopped working on kirby games 2 decades ago,
most of the times Dedede either get's possessed o is just a misunderstanding, the only game where he is the villain is the first one.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well the balance changes will be coming soon.

There's virtually no chance of any hints being found in the code but someone should still check.

Even if we get another confusing code name that'll be at least two months of speculation right there.

we should maybe check also to see if the amount of WoL placeholder slots changes somehow

if they remove the last four (which i kinda doubt) then welp it's been a good run, thus leaving the three remaining

if they add any though....

and if there's no change, they wouldn't end dlc without filling the last four slots after these remaining three, pass 3 has a decent shot if so

 

[ShrimpScampi]

bottom text

Don’t you know the deep lore behind Lucina’s villainy

 

[kirbsmash]

I dunno, is there any evidence that Hedlok was supposed to be anything other than a bloodthirsty, violent parasite that just wants to beat the **** out of people using a stolen body?

Hedlok was created by ARMS Laboratories as part of their "Wearable Weapons" project, the purpose of which was to create powerful sparring partners for fighters to hone their skills against. It is the follow-up to a prototype armor of sorts that fit over the body, which can still be seen in the background of the DNA Lab stage; however, Dr. Coyle, the overseer of the project, believed that ordinary humans would not be able to effectively control all the ARMS the prototype offered, so Hedlok was constructed instead, with the ability to override the mind of its wearer.[2] A partially assembled prototype of Hedlok can be seen in [NAME REDACTED].

Upon activation, Hedlok became self-aware, escaped containment, and went on a rampage; though possessing a mind of its own, its objectives are unclear.
(Taken from Atms wiki)


So..yes?

 

[Flyboy]

I love many many series and characters from Capcom, so I’d be happy either way. I just also see a lot of value in adding Chun-Li and expanding on the SF content that feels sorely absent. As long as we get something from Capcom I’ll be a happy camper.

I think a lot of people seem to be missing where we are coming from as Capcom fans that any Capcom content is good. lol. There's a reason the Vs Capcom games exist - Capcom fans have a lot of love for ALL of their library, and that even many of us who may want Phoenix or Dante or Monster Hunter or whoever more would be just fine with another Capcom icon that fills in the SF gaps. It's not about "slots", it's about characters.

 

[Momotsuki]

Well the balance changes will be coming soon.

There's virtually no chance of any hints being found in the code but someone should still check.

Even if we get another confusing code name that'll be at least two months of speculation right there.

Speaking of codenames, I don't know if it got mentioned here but Sephiroth's is "edge" - obviously referring to Masamune, but good luck guessing that had it leaked beforehand, without hindsight on your side.

I think the purpose behind the codenames is precisely this kind of leak insurance policy. The base game fighters (and Piranha Plant, who herself is essentially an honorary base game fighter IMO) all use their proper (Japanese if not the same as in English) names internally, but not the DLC starting from Joker.

And I think the whole point of that is so that if they accidentally leave traces of an in-development fighter in update data, instead of giving anything away it just makes speculation more thick and convoluted.

While some people did guess correctly who "brave" was, for the most part it just muddied the waters, and that's the whole point. I think that's clever as hell, personally. Imagine if "dolly" (Terry's codename) had leaked. What a disaster that would've been, haha.

 

[Ivander]

I really don't get this.

I think they're talking about how Dr. Coyle is the game's main villain and has an important role in ARMs in creating Springman's doppelganger Springtron, as well as Hedlok and has a connection to the game's first final boss and champion ARMs, Max Brass. So she is a big deal lore-wise in ARMs, despite being the last playable character that was added.
That said, I don't think she'd take priority over Springman, or at least Ninjara, considering those two were considered alongside Min Min. Possibly even Ribbon Girl. She does have the appeal of being a female villain, but ultimately, it comes down to whether or not they consider her fun or unique enough to add.

Other than someone once arguing that Lucina was a villain (why I will never know), no.

Honestly, I can't really think of a major female villain. There's like...The Ender Dragon? I guess?

As far as characters from existing franchises (that I know enough to list characters from) there's:

• Mother Brain, but she's not really a viable pick unless we were to go with MB which is...an idea.
• Kirby has Suzie and The Mage Sisters. That sounds like a rock band.
• Lusamine is probably the best villain in the Pokémon franchise...until they chickened out and rewrote the ending scenes in the ultra versions.
• Lots of people would like to see Medusa playable.
• Splash Woman...exists.
• The Dark Lord can steal the face of a woman. Not really sure if that makes it a girl or...
• Gruntilda would be interesting as a fighter.
• Dr. Coyle is the one with the highest likelihood of being added somewhere down the line. She would be pretty fun too.

Out of all of them, Medusa has the biggest likelyhood due to her role as the final boss and main antagonist of the original Kid Icarus, and the first half of Kid Icarus Uprising. Also helps that Sakurai did both Smash and Uprising. And it also helps that she sports a kickass design in Uprising, as well as some cool moves. Like she's not restricted to her staff or eye beams, she can attack with claws as well.

 

[kirbsmash]

(and Piranha Plant, who herself is essentially an honorary base game fighter IMO)

this thing is a girl?

 

[RouffWestie]

Plot twist: Chun-Li is in, but she was held back to give her time to achieve her Final Form.

 

[Schnee117]

Plot twist: Chun-Li is in, but she was held back to give her time to achieve her Final Form.

Chun-Li's final smash leaked

 

[TheBeastHimself]

We need Alph with his own slot on the roster, the fact he's just an alt costume is a grave sin. How often do people remember Alph is even on the roster?

Also screw Chun-Li, I'd rather have Cammy.

 

[Momotsuki]

We need Alph with his own slot on the roster, the fact he's just an alt costume is a grave sin. How often do people remember Alph is even on the roster?

Also screw Chun-Li, I'd rather have Cammy.

For what it's worth, I seldom remember Olimar himself is on the roster until random pulls him up.

 

[zumaddy]

I like Chun-Li, but 3 SF reps before Tekken gets one wouldn't make me happy

 

[TheBeastHimself]

For what it's worth, I seldom remember Olimar himself is on the roster.

I was going to say that, but I didn't want to offend any Pikmin fans. However, literally like 1% of the people I come across online play Olimar.

 

[kirbsmash]

I was going to say that, but I didn't want to offend any Pikmin fans. However, literally like 1% of the people I come across online play Olimar.

i do play him here and there.

 

[Momotsuki]

I like Chun-Li, but 3 SF reps before Tekken gets one wouldn't make me happy

Y'know, Heihachi really did get robbed. He's certainly not the only viable option for a Tekken rep, though. Kazuya would be really interesting.

 

[Louie G.]

It's not about "slots", it's about characters.

Yeah, this is the big thing to understand about Chun-Li support.

Adding her may not exactly introduce a new "world" to Smash, but it does enhance the crossover aspect of the series IMO - because Chun-Li is just that significant and beloved of a character that her inclusion stands apart from any arbitrary representation quotas and whatnot. Being able to fight Peach and Samus as Chun-Li sells itself, and would be a huge deal. I'd like a bunch of brand new series represented too, but I've come to really understand the significance of Chun as her own standalone character separate from the very limiting mindset of reps and slots. In a vacuum I think you'd have a hard time arguing that like... literally any Capcom character not already in the game is more important than Chun-Li. So I guess it depends where their priorities are.

I think just as important as bringing in big new series is introducing more incredibly popular characters to create more dream matchups. If there's anything to pull from Sephiroth, it's not to falsely expect him to be the new standard and get Eggman, Chun-Li, Raiden etc... but to recognize that sometimes a character is just that big a deal, and that adding certain characters (Sephiroth) holds just as much weight as adding say, someone who works moreso as the culmination / representation of their series (Steve). And both are important.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd like to put GLaDoS out there as an iconic female antagonist, but I have no clue how she'd translate to anything bar a boss battle since she's...well largely stuck to a wall.

Ah! I can't believe I didn't think of her. Yeah, she's probably the most iconic of the bunch, even appearing in pop culture. If they ever do add Chell, she'd need to be quite prominent in her stage, perhaps even getting her own spotlight with new dialogue recordings being snarky to the combatants.

I also got to mention Juri, as I'm pretty sure she's a bad guy too, just not affiliated with, or as important as M. Bison.

the only developer who still treats Dedede as a villain is Sakurai and he stopped working on kirby games 2 decades ago,
most of the times Dedede either get's possessed o is just a misunderstanding, the only game where he is the villain is the first one.

Most people I've seen count him among the villain roster though. I know he's definitely not one anymore, but that's what I've observed.

Also, Meta Knight and King Dedede getting cloned, mind controlled, and possessed is getting really freaking annoying. It's a dumber trope than "they died, but will come back anyway", and I would really like to go a game without fighting them again.

Don’t you know the deep lore behind Lucina’s villainy

I'm sorry, what?

this thing is a girl?

Not necessarily. People just misinterpreted/headcannoned it. It's the same with Ivysaur. Yes it has the yellow thing in its bud which indicates that it's a girl, but this is only true in Venusaurs. There are no perceivable differences between male and female Ivysaurs.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm sorry, what?

it's a meme spawned by random vandalism of the Peppa Pig wiki

...tfw they gave Peppa Pig of all things a wiki

 

[Momotsuki]

it's a meme spawned by random vandalism of the Peppa Pig wiki

...tfw they gave Peppa Pig of all things a wiki

You say "vandalism" and I stop to ask; is there anybody actually contributing to such a wiki in good faith...?

 

[kirbsmash]

...tfw they gave Peppa Pig of all things a wiki

Why is this a shock to you? How is this a shock to you?

 

[Momotsuki]

Why is this a shock to you? How is this a shock to you?

Do you really need to have a rebuttal to absolutely everything anybody says? Just asking.

 

[SKX31]

Other than someone once arguing that Lucina was a villain (why I will never know), no.

Honestly, I can't really think of a major female villain. There's like...The Ender Dragon? I guess?

Aha, so you have identified a major problem, it seems! Smash aside, we need more female villains in general, no?

I can think of a few, although they are not common at all:

* SHODAN (System Shock - Chances are decent you've seen her face used as a short-hand for "Malevolent AI", although it's not nearly as common as HAL 9000. Yes, System Shock is the spiritual predecessor to BioShock.)

* GLaDOS (Portal, same category as - and possibly inspired by - SHODAN.)

* Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft, human sniper who gets kidnapped and infested by the Starship Trooper-esque Zerg due to her psychic abilities, and becomes Zerg Queen for most of StarCraft I and II. In the pretty unlikely event Blizzard gets a shot, she's arguably a frontrunner due to her being a main focal point of StarCraft's story.)

* Widowmaker (Overwatch, putting her here since she is a main catalyst for Overwatch's story alongside Reaper.)

And to name an example that's already in Smash in some way, Juri, who's semi-independent and works with Bison... sometimes. The Street Fighter villains don't cooperate well.

So, who are you guys wanting or expecting to get into Smash Bros. Ultimate?

By the way, on an unrelated note, today is my birthday!

Happy birthday!

As far as expectations go... I'm not sure if I should set % chances, but either way:

* I'm 80 % sure we'll see a new company in FP2, if only because a lot of third parties are very likely interested in appearing in the game. The potential field is heavily constested though.

* As for other "Second third parties"... we'll have to see really, although I'm not as optismistic on that if only because there are only 3 chances (assuming no further DLC) left.

* I'm not entirely sure which specific characters to expect due to FP2 being chosen simultaneously (going by PushDustin's comments), but we can expect a lot of coverage. I'm gonna go on a limb and guess that one or two of the remaining three will be relatively small scale. Although there's a world where Nintendo just decided to go for broke.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

this thing is a girl?

It doesnt have a sex

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You guys remember that Dark Samus is a female villain and is already in the game right?

 

[kirbsmash]

Do you really need to have a rebuttal to absolutely everything anybody says? Just asking.

No i'm mostly just curious and ask a lot.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Capcom has it's own crossover for a reason.

behind Nintendo the have the most loved ips of any game company (maybe square or sony could compete)
and recently they have been reviving so many of their ip's and making some of their best games

the main problem with chun-li is that she faces so much competition from characters arguably more deserving
for example Resident evil is the premier horror franchise in videogames, they also have the most popular visual novel series not too mention having one of the most popular franchise in the world right now with Monster Hunter.

and i think Capcom is one of the few companies that could just have it's own Fighters pass to itself and no one would get upset because of how diverse and iconic their franchises and games truly are.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

In an alternate universe