Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Mushroomguy12]

To be fair, Smash was far from the only game pulled. This is like, half of the usual lineup size.

Yeah, I did some digging and forgot how they cut down the games last year too.

If only Ultimate had better netcode.....

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It doesn't seem to be listed.....
Edit: for now, they may announce more later.

Sony announced they acquired the EVO Fighting Game Tournament Brand and that it will be returning in August.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate appears to be out... can't say I'm shocked but it is the biggest fighting game in the history of the planet earth.....interesting decision. pic.twitter.com/vAIlGU81gA

— Stealth (@Stealth40k) March 18, 2021

If it’s online only tourney this year Smash isn’t making an appearance. I’m like 99% certain no one wants to watch the Smash servers **** the bed while 2 top level players struggle to fight the net code more than the other player.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, I did some digging and forgot how they cut down the games last year too.

If only Ultimate had better netcode.....

And this is part of why I’m hoping for Ultimate Encore aside from obviously more characters, and base game stuff. It’s kinda obvious they can’t do anything with the current net code as is.

 

[Schnee117]

The site also stresses that they'll announce more games in the future, they could probably only get Namco, NRS/WB, Capcom and ArcSys onboard with those games at this stage.

 

[SKX31]

Imran's take on the EVO thing:

I think it was extremely unlikely Nintendo was going to return to EVO with Smash Bros. anyway, especially after the other sexual abuse scandals, but I definitely think the door is completely closed from their side now. https://t.co/ZluQvmdHj4

— Imran Khan (@imranzomg) March 18, 2021

According to IGN:

Nintendo has provided a statement regarding Sony's acquisition of the Evolution Championship Series.

“Nintendo has enjoyed engaging with fans at past Evo tournaments and wish the show organizers the best with their new venture. We will continue to assess Evo, and other opportunities, as we plan for future online and offline Super Smash Bros. tournament activity.” A spokesperson for Nintendo said.

It is a non-answer, but I don't think they entirely shut the door here.

And I'm a bit skeptical as to the sex abuse scandal being a primary factor here. Yes, it left a black mark on the scene (especially when the Conduct Panel shut down due to being overwhelmed), but they didn't reverse course really after that and Nintendo continue to have Smashers as official spokespeople (like VikkiKitty, who's a Brand Ambassador). They'll probably be more careful after that, but I don't think they'll withdraw completely.

If it’s online only tourney this year Smash isn’t making an appearance. I’m like 99% certain no one wants to watch the Smash servers **** the bed while 2 top level players struggle to fight the net code more than the other player.

Case in point: what happened at the Smash World Tour Mexican Online Qualifiers this past week. 25 secs / 10 min 35 secs into this video for the full version of "A connection error has occured":

 

[Ivander]

As far as Konami, both them and Sega would benefit in getting other studios to make some modern remakes/sequels to old titles. No reason we can' get a decent modern version of Goemon or Gunstar Heroes.

A 3D Goemon game that follows similar games like Super Mario 3D World or the new Sackboy's Adventure game where up to 4 players can play as either Goemon, Ebisumaru, Sasuke or Yae, with a bit more action focus like the N64 games, but still a good amount of platforming levels.

A new Gunstar Heroes would be great to have following Cuphead, especially when Cuphead was inspired by Gunstar Heroes and was very well-received. But like.....where's Treasure...man I miss them.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Let's face it, even if Sony didn't buy EVO, Smash still wouldn't be in lol
It got barred last year due to it's horrendously awful netcode way before all the scandals popped up, nothing would have changed for this year.

 

[SNEKeater]

Btw Sony was always the sponsor of EVO. Or at least, it was for the last years. This at least guarantees EVO will keep existing in the future.

Now it's up to Nintendo and Microsoft (Killer Instinct) what to do, I guess. But Sony seems to be open, according to this:

The Evolution Championship Series returns with Evo 2021 Online across two weekends: August 6-8 and August 13-15. Join the best of the best in free, online regional tournaments for Guilty Gear -Strive- (PS4/PS5), Mortal Kombat 11: Ultimate (PS4/PS5), Street Fighter V: Champion Edition (PS4/PS5/PC), and Tekken 7 (PC) to celebrate the fighting game community.

All gaming platforms will remain welcome at Evo. Stay tuned for more game announcements.

This is from the official website of EVO.

 

[Firox]

Let's face it, even if Sony didn't buy EVO, Smash still wouldn't be in lol
It got barred last year due to it's horrendously awful netcode way before all the scandals popped up, nothing would have changed for this year.

I love how Nintendo tried to scapegoat the sexual allegations as their reason for staying out of EVO when the real reason is that their netcode is a total embarrassment and they don't want to draw any more attention to it.

 

[epicmartin7]

Nintendo's official response.

Nintendo says it will "continue to assess Evo, and other opportunities, as we plan for future online and offline Super Smash Bros. tournament activity.” https://t.co/6bZaJ3TG9e https://t.co/q8QokjVNV6

— IGN (@IGN) March 18, 2021

 

[Idon]

Would easily cut half this damn roster so I could get some good netcode, good online functionality and a way to force everyone to use an Ethernet cable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I love how Nintendo tried to scapegoat the sexual allegations as their reason for staying out of EVO when the real reason is that their netcode is a total embarrassment and they don't want to draw any more attention to it.

When has Nintendo spoken about the mass ******? Also, very cool of you to undermine it all

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I love how Nintendo tried to scapegoat the sexual allegations as their reason for staying out of EVO when the real reason is that their netcode is a total embarrassment and they don't want to draw any more attention to it.

Not a surprise that Nintendo's online infruscture is so unpopular at EVO; anything so over 18 years old at this point would be.

 

[Technomage]

To be fair, I've learned that it's actually Namco who's behind the ****ty online (I remember Tekken 7 and Soul Calibur 6 having online as bad as Smash). But still, it is ultimately Nintendo's responsibility (they should have at least got a different company to handle Smash's online).

 

[Idon]

To be fair, I've learned that it's actually Namco who's behind the ****ty online (I remember Tekken 7 and Soul Calibur 6 having online as bad as Smash).

I'll give it to Namco for having ****ty online infrastructure, but the terrible ranking system, terrible lobbies, and especially the terrible matchmaking system is all intentional design decisions by Sakurai and the Smash devs.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'll give it to Namco for having ****ty online infrastructure, but the terrible ranking system, terrible lobbies, and especially the terrible matchmaking system is all intentional design decisions by Sakurai and the Smash devs.

It's two years since the game released and I still can't switch characters in lobbies without going to the back of the waiting line.

Why?

 

[Technomage]

I'll give it to Namco for having ****ty online infrastructure, but the terrible ranking system, terrible lobbies, and especially the terrible matchmaking system is all intentional design decisions by Sakurai and the Smash devs.

Oh, that, I didn't know.

 

[Knight Dude]

In order to help give Mega Man X a mechanical identity separate from Mega Man other than "Mega Man, but bigger and/or more aggressive", one thing they could do is implement the Variable Weapons System (or whatever Mega Man X's variant is): His Neutral or Down Special would allow the player to change what weapon he has equipped for his Neutral Attack, Forward Tilt, Neutral Aerial, and Forward Smash. By default it would be the X Buster that works similarly to the Mega Buster, and his Forward Smash would fire a Charge Shot, and you would be able to swap it out for one of 2-4 other weapons, each with their own energy bar that depletes as you use it. If you run out of energy for that weapon, you can't use it until your next stock or something.

For a example of what a Maverick Weapon would be like, I'll go with Storm Tornado. With it equipped, your Neutral Attack, Forward Tilt, and Neutral Aerial become a multi-hit horizontal tornado projectile that travels straight forward deals a lot more damage than what can be expected with the X Buster. The tradeoff is that you can only have one shot on screen at a time. Your Forward Smash becomes a vertical wind pillar that forms around you that extends quite high above you, and low below you, but only goes through semi-solid platforms when extending downward so as to not be way too powerful as an edge guard tool.

EDIT: They wouldn't all have to be "buster replacement" style weapons, that would be really boring. Storm Tornado is just the only weapon I'm familiar with that wouldn't have significant issues upon implementation since I've only played through the first game so far.

Because this mechanic would require pallet swapping Mega Man X to show what weapon he has, he would have to have alternate costumes instead of pallet swaps*, which could be based off of the various armours seen throughout the games assuming there are 8 of them.

*I know Mega Man takes on a new appearance for weapon swapping in Mega Man 11, and that would work for him in Super Smash Bros., but I don't think that'll ever carry over to Mega Man X because of those armours, so this is probably what the workaround would have to be.



They could even amalgam the designs like they did with Snake (although it was two different characters in that case). Probably the least likely option, but I would think it's still in the realm of possibility.

I think they can implement him without doing the same thing as Classic Mega Man for the buster inputs(I.E make it his jab), while still making him feel like Mega Man X. I figured the trade off could be that he can charge in mid-air but not while walking, so the reverse of Mega Man, since it could be his B move. But you get two dash attacks. A regular physical one, like Charged Shotgun Ice. But pressing special during the dash animation lets you use Dash Lemons, or releasing the charge during the dash let's you Dash Charge Shot.

And completely running out of ammo sounds really un-fun, especially if it's for more than one move. At least a re-charge like Robin's would work. But even then, Samus doesn't run out of missiles, or Link with his Bombs, nor Mega Man out of Metal Blades.

Though maybe because I found the weapons switching SUPER clunky in Smash Flash 2, I'd rather not do that with Mega Man X or Zero or Mega Man.EXE. ect. But maybe that can be done better in an official game. Still, I was kind of glad SSF2 change that part of Mega Man's moveset.

I do think MMX's main draw should be how crazy mobile he is. Dashing, Air-Dashing, Dash-Jumping and Wall Jumps to really make him standout. That could be his mechanic, a unique dash with multiple options from it. Not just one dash attack, but two, and a unique jump from it as well, that mirrors the long jump from the Mega Man X games.

As for special moves, he has a wide set of them from weapons to armor attacks. Falcon Dash for a Side Special, Rolling Shield for Down Special, Triad Thunder for Down-Smash, Shining Ray for an Up-Smash ect. Throw in some references to MVC as well. So just picking what tools he has in his own titles should be enough. Oh, and getting the Shoto moves, but unlike Ryu and Ken, MMX can ONLY do them by using the traditional inputs.

I imagined he'd be a mid-range type of guy, compared to the longer range Mega Man and the rush-down of Zero.

Though I do like the idea of Storm Tornado as a Smash attack A LOT. Could be as over the top as Palutena's.

 

[Guynamednelson]

To be fair, I've learned that it's actually Namco who's behind the ****ty online (I remember Tekken 7 and Soul Calibur 6 having online as bad as Smash). But still, it is ultimately Nintendo's responsibility (they should have at least got a different company to handle Smash's online).

Tekken 7 eventually did get rollback netcode.

Anyway about Sony buying Evo: If Nintendo has done nothing about how Detective Pikachu can be bought on the PS Store, why ban Smash from Evo?

 

[Firox]

When has Nintendo spoken about the mass ******? Also, very cool of you to undermine it all

Sorry, I couldn't understand what you were trying to say through all the censored profanity. Also, how am I undermining anything? Individuals can have their reservations about the moral fabric of the EVO scene but it's obvious that Nintendo is aware and embarrassed about their netcode, hence they're shying away from events that would draw attention to it.

EDIT: BTW, I know that Nintendo hasn't outright mentioned the allegations as their reasoning, I was more referring to Imran Khan's insinuation that they were.

 

[Inue Houji]

Huh, goodbye to anime fighters at EVO I guess.

 

[SNEKeater]

Huh, goodbye to anime fighters at EVO I guess.

Dude Guilty Gear Strive is literally mentioned as one of the games for EVO 2021.

Edit: not to say, Sony has been doing livestreams for Blazblue tournaments in their official Youtube channel for a good while:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sorry, I couldn't understand what you were trying to say through all the censored profanity. Also, how am I undermining anything? Individuals can have their reservations about the moral fabric of the EVO scene but it's obvious that Nintendo is aware and embarrassed about their netcode, hence they're shying away from events that would draw attention to it.

EDIT: BTW, I know that Nintendo hasn't outright mentioned the allegations as their reasoning, I was more referring to Imran Khan's insinuation that they were.

By saying it's a scapegoat, you're saying it doesn't matter that much when in reality, most companies that try to maintain a family friendly image wouldn't be too keen on proudly encouraging a community with an entire ****ing sex ring scandal

Dude Guilty Gear Strive is literally mentioned as one of the games for EVO 2021.

tbf Strive having rollback is moreso the exception rather than the rule, though that seems to be changing, especially with SNK putting in work for rollback too

 

[Inue Houji]

Dude Guilty Gear Strive is literally mentioned as one of the games for EVO 2021.

Edit: not to say, Sony has been doing livestreams for Blazblue tournaments in their official Youtube channel for a good while:

I should have added the .
Sony hates anime, don't you know?

 

[Knight Dude]

I just had a thought about Waluigi. What if he's implemented like Faust from Guilty Gear and he's filled with RNG shenanigans? His neutral special for example has him toss a random item, and this of course includes ATs and Pokeballs on the list. His other specials would have weird properties where if a condition is achieved Waluigi would start a quick random mini-game that the opponent has to play where he either wins or loses (kinda like mario party). Like for example a slot machine that appears on the screen where depending on the result the opponent would get a random effect which either strengthens them or weakens them.

It's wacky enough that I can see this being implemented with Waluigi if he gets in. What do you all think? Do you think a character more RNG crazy than Hero could be implemented like this in Smash?

I don't mind the idea of Waluigi having some random elements, but spawning ANY item sounds a little too dank. The idea that he has all the weird spin-off moves along with his own quirks(there's more than one game where he swims in the air, if I remember correctly.) If he does spawn items, it should be a select few that could be related to him, like Bom-ombs or green shells.

One idea I liked was that one of his moves was the Mario Party dice, 1 does 1 hit, 2 does 2 hits, ect.

GBA/DS characters?

Castlevania keeps winning.

You are right. All 3 of these characters would be very badass! I think Shanoa looks the coolest of the bunch.(you know her well) Though I'd like Julius to at least have Holy Water that crawls forward. And the Knife too.

 

[Firox]

By saying it's a scapegoat, you're saying it doesn't matter that much when in reality, most companies that try to maintain a family friendly image wouldn't be too keen on proudly encouraging a community with an entire ****ing sex ring scandal

You're reading too far into things. By scapegoat, I meant that Nintendo was seemingly masking their real intentions by virtue signaling instead. That's not to say that sex scandals aren't serious or that they don't matter. And I can totally understand why a family oriented company would want to distance itself from such things, but then why would Sony/Playstation and so many other companies not have a problem with being a part of EVO? By your logic, they all must condone sexual misconduct. As for encouraging sex ring scandals, which community does that, specifically? I thought the allegations were against Mr. Wizard and specific individuals, not the EVO organization or the fighting game community at large.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're reading too far into things. By scapegoat, I meant that Nintendo was seemingly masking their real intentions by virtue signaling instead. That's not to say that sex scandals aren't serious or that they don't matter. And I can totally understand why a family oriented company would want to distance itself from such things, but then why would Playstation and so many other companies not have a problem with being a part of EVO? By your logic, they all must condone sexual misconduct. As for encouraging sex ring scandals, which community does that, specifically? I thought the allegations were against Mr. Wizard and specific individuals, not the EVO organization or the fighting game community at large.

Those other companies don't have kids as their target audience. As for the sex ring, that was the Smash community, remember the whole Sky Williams house thing?

 

[Knight Dude]

You're reading too far into things. By scapegoat, I meant that Nintendo was seemingly masking their real intentions by virtue signaling instead. That's not to say that sex scandals aren't serious or that they don't matter. And I can totally understand why a family oriented company would want to distance itself from such things, but then why would Playstation and so many other companies not have a problem with being a part of EVO? By your logic, they all must condone sexual misconduct. As for encouraging sex ring scandals, which community does that, specifically? I thought the allegations were against Mr. Wizard and specific individuals, not the EVO organization or the fighting game community at large.

There were a lot of sexual harassers/groomers ect. also found specifically within the Smash Competitive scene as well recently.

Tekken 7 eventually did get rollback netcode.

Anyway about Sony buying Evo: If Nintendo has done nothing about how Detective Pikachu can be bought on the PS Store, why ban Smash from Evo?

Well, they say they did. But from what I understand they still don't have actual rollback. Which isn't too surprising since MKX was one of the few newer games to completely change their online structure from the ground up to add it in later.

Still, if John Minecraft was able to get in to change elements of EVERY. SINGLE. STAGE. You'd think the work to make online closer to Killer Instinct or even ARMS would still be somewhat of a reality.

 

[Firox]

Those other companies don't have kids as their target audience. As for the sex ring, that was the Smash community, remember the whole Sky Williams house thing?

Just did a search on the Sky Williams thing since I wasn't actually familiar with it....damn, why is there so much freaking perversion in the Smash community? Is it because Smash is a more kid-oriented fighting game? smh

 

[Technomage]

Just did a search on the Sky Williams thing since I wasn't actually familiar with it....damn, why is there so much freaking perversion in the Smash community? Is it because Smash is a more kid-oriented fighting game? smh

Maybe; for a similar comparison, some producers of kids' shows (such as Dan Schneider and John K.) tend to do similar things to that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Just did a search on the Sky Williams thing since I wasn't actually familiar with it....damn, why is there so much freaking perversion in the Smash community? Is it because Smash is a more kid-oriented fighting game? smh

And people wonder why Nintendo took so long to endorse the competitive scene...

Okay, I'm actually just trying to make a joke. I don't know the timeline of events.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Waluigi needs to wait until Waluigi's Wrecking Crew comes out, then his FS can be hitting someone with a Wrecking Ball.

You joke, But Waluigi becoming a Constructor/Demolisher in his own game is brilliant (it helps that Waluigi already has connections to Wrecking Crew in a way)

 

[Knight Dude]

Anyways, I like Ogre from Tekken. He's pretty cool and I like his gimmick of taking bits and pieces of multiple cast members and making a moveset out of that. Is there any character that could be added to Smash that might have a similar power/gimmick as their entire kit? And if so who would you want? Aside from Ogre himself.

Keep in mind, his style isn't like Mokujin or Ditto, where they copy one character wholesale each round, but rather some moves come from character A, some from character B, some from character C, so on and so forth.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just did a search on the Sky Williams thing since I wasn't actually familiar with it....damn, why is there so much freaking perversion in the Smash community? Is it because Smash is a more kid-oriented fighting game? smh

Wanna know what's even worse? Nairo got permabanned on Twitch, which is the appropriate response to this stuff if you ask me. Sky Williams, Anti and Cinnpie haven't been banned from Twitch at all, so even ignoring how Nairo seems to be innocent, it's ****ing vile how this **** still hasn't been handled properly

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'll give it to Namco for having ****ty online infrastructure, but the terrible ranking system, terrible lobbies, and especially the terrible matchmaking system is all intentional design decisions by Sakurai and the Smash devs.

Not to mention the Switch's architecture itself. Bad online has always been a thing not just in Nintendo games, but for Nintendo consoles in general. It's been like that since the Wii era.

 

[SharkLord]

Anyways, I like Ogre from Tekken. He's pretty cool and I like his gimmick of taking bits and pieces of multiple cast members and making a moveset out of that. Is there any character that could be added to Smash that might have a similar power/gimmick as their entire kit? And if so who would you want? Aside from Ogre himself.

Keep in mind, his style isn't like Mokujin or Ditto, where they copy one character wholesale each round, but rather some moves come from character A, some from character B, some from character C, so on and so forth.

It's fairly common for Smash to reuse animations, so we're halfway there already

Speaking seriously, maybe an original character based on the weak enemies from past games, like the Fighting Polygon Team or the Wireframes. Take those and spin something cool out of them, with the corresponding effects.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Not to mention the Switch's architecture itself. Bad online has always been a thing not just in Nintendo games, but for Nintendo consoles in general. It's been like that since the Wii era.

what was that stuff about the new internet technology? maybe the so called Super Switch will utilize that even better too?

 

[7NATOR]

Anyways, I like Ogre from Tekken. He's pretty cool and I like his gimmick of taking bits and pieces of multiple cast members and making a moveset out of that. Is there any character that could be added to Smash that might have a similar power/gimmick as their entire kit? And if so who would you want? Aside from Ogre himself.

Keep in mind, his style isn't like Mokujin or Ditto, where they copy one character wholesale each round, but rather some moves come from character A, some from character B, some from character C, so on and so forth.

Metal Sonic is able to Copy the abilities of other Characters, In Sonic the Fighters, in addition to his own Unique moves, Metal also had bits and pieces of moves from other fighters

So I Imagine Metal could perhaps be a character that has better variations of a Number of the Smash casts' movesets for his Unique moves, and his Specials would be his own unique moves, or something like that

There's also Seth from Street Fighter, who's also someone that copies the moves of the cast. In particular, his moveset in SF4 had alot of his moves be copies of the OG World Warriors from Street Fighter 2

 

[SNEKeater]

Unironically all this EVO stuff might be the start for a possible Sony character in Smash in the future if you think about it lol

Assuming Nintendo keeps allowing Smash to be a part of EVO, tho

 

[Wunderwaft]

Not to mention the Switch's architecture itself. Bad online has always been a thing not just in Nintendo games, but for Nintendo consoles in general. It's been like that since the Wii era.

Wanna know what's even wackier? Nintendo finally updated it's mutiplayer servers recently after 18 years.

I know we mock Nintendo for being behind the times but damn.....