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Actually, question. I've only played Sky FC, so what are the odds Sakurai would pick Rean over Estelle? I'd say it's a somewhat similar situation as Estelle's the one who started it all but Rean's from the biggest game in the franchise from what I can tell, especially with Cold Steel getting a whole extra game over Sky
Pretty much exactly like you said, Estelle is the icon and the protag of the first one and makes consistent cameos in future titles. While Rean is from the more popular games and there are more Cold Steel games than Sky games
Slightly Related:
Falcom's entire game catalog is currently on sale on Steam in case anyone is interested... most of their games can run on potatoes...
Honestly, if we do get a Tales rep regardless of who it is, I hope we get at least a couple tracks from games other than the one the fighter came from, like what Joker did with the Persona 3 and 4 music. The Tales franchise has so many great tracks, that only including one game's music would feel like a missed opportunity. For some examples of my favorite tracks from some of the games:
I think expecting all of those games to get music if we get a Tales rep is too much, but I'd love to see at least one or two of the more well-known tracks, like Fighting of the Spirit, Fury Sparks, or Meaning of Birth.
Man, i miss the good old Break the Targets from Melee. I know it'd be ridiculous to have unique BTT stages for all 81+ characters, but a man can dream, right?
Yeah, I have this weird feeling that, if we're getting a Tales of Rep, Llyod is going to become the "Geno" of the Tales of Series AS IN-
"Sakurai make a comment that want him playable/say he's the natural choice but he don't end up being playable replaced by the most well known character of the company/series in comparison."
I think it's gonna be how Sakurai did consider for a moment Bartz or Tina/Terra for the FF spot, the logical Nintendo Choice, but then went like "Lmao FF without Cloud, wtf am I doing." and take the most popular character fanwise
To be fair, Cloud is unambiguously the most iconic Final Fantasy character, if not the most iconic JRPG character period. I don't think there's a Tales character who is quite on Cloud's level.
On the flipside, while Yuri is by far more popular in the Tales fanbase, Lloyd is a far more popular request in the Smash fanbase. While Cloud didn't get as much support before his reveal, I don't think any other Final Fantasy character reached Lloyd's level of popularity either. This probably meant that Lloyd got a decent amount of requests on the ballot, which is probably what Nintendo would be looking at.
There's also the fact that Tales of Symphonia is still what broke the series out into the West. While Yuri has more popularity in the core Tales fanbase, Lloyd is still more popular with the Smash fanbase.
I'd definitely argue that Yuri is closer to being the "Cloud" of Tales than Lloyd. FF7 is a lot more than the game that got the series popular in the west. That's really the only thing Symphonia is known for, not that I think it hurts Lloyd's chances all that much, I just feel Yuri could possibly have the edge here. Especially with how well Vesperia DE did, with the switch sales supposedly surpassing their expectations.
I'll use this opportunity to shill Falcom's games as well. They're fun JRPGs with interesting stories.
Here's a tip for newcomers, playing Ys out of order is fine but if you play Trails out of order then I will beat you up (no seriously don't ruin the great world building and story build up throughout the series).
Also while this isn't related to Falcom I'll still shill anyways. Higurashi and Umineko are on sale on steam, if you're a fan of mystery VNs like Ace Attorney then you'll like these games.
I'd definitely argue that Yuri is closer to being the "Cloud" of Tales than Lloyd. FF7 is a lot more than the game that got the series popular in the west. That's really the only thing Symphonia is known for, not that I think it hurts Lloyd's chances all that much, I just feel Yuri could possibly have the edge here. Especially with how well Vesperia DE did, with the switch sales supposedly surpassing their expectations.
Well this isn’t exactly true. I can assure you that a LOT of roster wishlists in Brawl were absolutely fluffed with Cloud. And even then Sakurai himself said “We got a lot of requests for Final Fantasy Characters but Cloud was 1/3 or 1/4 of all of them” meaning his was almost certainly the most requested FF character. Even if Black Mage was rather popular here on the boards it isn’t even comparable to Cloud’s popularity.
Yeah, I guess I'm just good at memorizing this kind of stuff. That, and I'm able to answer the question pretty well, so there isn't any real reason to hold off on it if I'm available.
Nope. While most of them wield swords, all of them wield them differently. And in the case for Lloyd, Lloyd has two swords, whereas all the others either only have the one or are Senel Coolidge, who uses his fists. And in the case for Yuri, he uses his sword, fists and feet for battling. Not to mention he casually places his sword over his shoulder while wielding it. A Hero scenario with the Tales protagonists does not work.
Well this isn’t exactly true. I can assure you that a LOT of roster wishlists in Brawl were absolutely fluffed with Cloud. And even then Sakurai himself said “We got a lot of requests for Final Fantasy Characters but Cloud was 1/3 or 1/4 of all of them” meaning his was almost certainly the most requested FF character. Even if Black Mage was rather popular here on the boards it isn’t even comparable to Cloud’s popularity.
Ah, thanks for clarification. I assumed he didn't get as much because he was considered impossible.
I suppose that adds a bit more credence to Lloyd; Like Cloud, not only did his game make the series big, but he's also the most requested character for Smash.
Not really. Even if you took characters that use a single sword as a Hero-like template, the Artes they use would be totally different. With Dragon Quest, there's a common library of spells that are used across the series (with some variation from game to game), so all the Heroes could have the same spells for specials. With Tales, though, each character has their own set of Artes they learn. Aside from a couple overlapping moves, Lloyd, Yuri, Luke, Velvet, Asbel, etc. all have their own Arte trees, as well as their own Mystic Artes, which would undoubtedly be a Final Smash.
I'd definitely argue that Yuri is closer to being the "Cloud" of Tales than Lloyd. FF7 is a lot more than the game that got the series popular in the west. That's really the only thing Symphonia is known for, not that I think it hurts Lloyd's chances all that much, I just feel Yuri could possibly have the edge here. Especially with how well Vesperia DE did, with the switch sales supposedly surpassing their expectations.
I dunno. From what I can gather, Tales of Symphonia is still what made the series big, and not just in Japan. It fleshed out a lot of concepts and pushed the series into 3D. I feel like it's a bit more than just the Tales game that got the series attention from the West.
...These debates are going to make me into a Tales fan, aren't they?
They might just not do a tournament based on female fighters, partially because a good amount of them share their slots with their male counterparts: (why Alex doesn't have her icon)
Would characters with both genders be allowed in a gender locked tournament? I can't imagine they'd be able to stop you from using the costumes that aren't of that gender...
Honestly, if we do get a Tales rep regardless of who it is, I hope we get at least a couple tracks from games other than the one the fighter came from, like what Joker did with the Persona 3 and 4 music. The Tales franchise has so many great tracks, that only including one game's music would feel like a missed opportunity. For some examples of my favorite tracks from some of the games:
I think expecting all of those games to get music if we get a Tales rep is too much, but I'd love to see at least one or two of the more well-known tracks, like Fighting of the Spirit, Fury Sparks, or Meaning of Birth.
Most characters that are women usually have something more to them than just being a girl even if we get an all girl tournament before the next character that doesn't say anything about the pass
I think the most likely gendered Online Tourney would be a battle of the sexes. That way you wouldn't have to worry about different gendered alts. Actually, the tournament could be exclusively characters with different gendered alts. So:
Or it could be all characters with a gender, which means it would be simpler to name the characters that can't participate. Those being: aaaaand that's it, unless you count Mega Man by virtue of him being a robot. There are other Pokémon that don't have defined genders, but Mewtwo is the only one that is straight-up genderless.
EDIT: I suppose Piranha Plant could technically be eligible for this tourney since flowers are considered to have both male and female parts, though I kinda doubt Piranha Plant works like a normal flower in that regard. lol
I dunno. From what I can gather, Tales of Symphonia is still what made the series big, and not just in Japan. It fleshed out a lot of concepts and pushed the series into 3D. I feel like it's a bit more than just the Tales game that got the series attention from the West.
...These debates are going to make me into a Tales fan, aren't they?
It did! Maybe I dismissed it a little too quickly there with it only being a western thing. Symphonia is a very impactful entry in the series and set the standard for how the games would be structured all the way up until Zestiria (arguably graces). I think it has a bit more importance to the series history than Vesperia, but it definitely isn't as popular. Destiny, Abyss, and Vesperia are easily the most popular entries in the series, though I know Smash isn't exactly a popularity contest. I think it could go either way, Vesperia DE's performance may have pushed them to prioritize Yuri, or Symphonia's western appeal could've pushed them to prioritize Lloyd.
Edit: Although I forgot to mention, Destiny definitely did more for the series getting "big" in Japan than Symphonia. Its impact is more what it brought to the series, not exactly bringing the most people in.
I really really wish people wouldn’t sleep on a Dark Souls character. I feel like the series is up there as one of Namco-Bandai’s most important and trust me when I say that the music by itself would justify its inclusion. The games are absolutely ****ing packed with some of the most somber and dramatic battle themes I’ve ever heard
And that’s just scratching the surface of what the games offer.
The stages of the game could be some of the most jaw dropping of the game.
Anor Londo:
Probably one of the most iconic locations in the games. It’s a little hard to forget what you have to go through in this part of the game. No spoilers but I feel like this place is part of the reason Dark Souls has its infamy for being difficult.
Majula:
Majula is what you would consider your hub town in Dark Souls II and while it isn’t exactly anything more than a small coastal town it’s still a very gorgeous location in the game.
Irithyll of the Boreal Valley:
I don’t think there’s any way a photo could do Irithyll justice but this one is the best I could find. This is easily one of the most gorgeous scenes from Dark Souls III and goes down as one of my favorite areas of all of them and is easily my choice for a stage.
I would LOVE if it was a traveling stage that went through multiple locations through Dark Souls III because I feel like DS3 was when they REALLY hit gold with their environment design.
Aside from the somber beauty of the stages there’s also the character to take into account
I think there’s no way they won’t choose the Chosen Undead as the Smash character because of how they actually tie in, not only as the player character, but also as a giant part of the lore. But I also think they won’t just stick with the DS1 design for their alts so here’s my wishlist for their alts:
DS1 Basic Armor
DS2 Basic Armor Faraam:
Dark Souls 3 basic armor:
Solaire Armor:
Catarina Armor:
Knight Artorias Armor:
Soul of Cinder Armor:
Deprived:
And of course, because of how Dark Souls’ Weapon Swapping is, the potential for a moveset is limitless. To the point it can have scythes, swords, staves, daggers, bombs, pyromancy, axes, long swords, stance swapping, and on and on and on.
Edit: Dammit I accidentally hit post before I was done... Stand by.
Most characters that are women usually have something more to them than just being a girl even if we get an all girl tournament before the next character that doesn't say anything about the pass
I just think that the absence of a Super Bash Sisters Tournament, when it's probably an easy tourney to throw out there, Might suggest that at least one of our Next 3 newcomers is a Woman
It's the same reasoning for why I think we might get another Character that originated in the 2010's, Like Monokuma, Velvet, Freddy Fazbear, Apex Legends character, etc. The logic is that perhaps the 2010's tournament might be saved as the one of the newcomers' DLC Tournament, or the newcomer themselves will be present in the DLC Tournament
I've been a Capcom fan all my life. But after Megaman and Street Fighter, I have mixed feelings for about every character I can think of.
Nathan "Radd" Spencer:
My next most wanted, I'd love to have this guy, but I just can't stand another character with abysmal recovery.
Morrigan:
Always been a fan. But I feel she'd be another Shoto.
Dante:
I'm a huge fan of the series, but I just know he'll break the meta, like he always does imo.
Viewtiful Joe:
... Hey maybe I can't find anything wrong with him.
Arthur:
Not really a fan of G&G.
Monster Hunter:
Extremely interested in the series.
Not interested in the character.
Phoenix Wright:
I have no experience with it so I have no attachment. Hopefully objection counter won't get old quickly.
Samanosuke or Jubei:
Onimusha was my first PS2 game, so it's very dear to me. However, the characters themselves just don't look as interesting. Plus they're samurai, therefore, swordsmen. And although they can change weapons, I feel Ryu hayabusa coul do everything they can't only cooler.
Well with the emphasis on the Bionic Arm, he might have the best tether recovery in the game, perhaps even latching onto walls like the Melee Links. That'd be neat.
She doesn't have an equivalent to Tastumaki Senpukyaku or Focus Attack, so she'd feel pretty unique next to Ryu and Ken, especially since what's replacing those two moves is a special air dash that she can act out of, and a command grab.
Crap that makes a ton of sense. Please don't make it a counter. Especially since you'd probably get some sort of stat penalty or something for not landing it. That would just be the worst.
I really really wish people wouldn’t sleep on a Dark Souls character. I feel like the series is up there as one of Namco-Bandai’s most important and trust me when I say that the music by itself would justify its inclusion. The games are absolutely ****ing packed with some of the most somber and dramatic battle themes I’ve ever heard
And that’s just scratching the surface of what the games offer.
The stages of the game could be some of the most jaw dropping of the game.
Anor Londo:
Probably one of the most iconic locations in the games. It’s a little hard to forget what you have to go through in this part of the game. No spoilers but I feel like this place is part of the reason Dark Souls has its infamy for being difficult.
Majula:
Majula is what you would consider your hun town in Dark Souls II and while it isn’t exactly anything more than a small coasta town it’s still a very gorgeous location in the game.
Irithyll of the Boreal Valley:
I don’t think there’s any way a photo could do Irithyll justice but this one is the best I could find. This is easily one of the most gorgeous scenes from Dark Souls III and goes down as one of my favorite areas of all of them and is easily my choice for a stage.
I would LOVE if it was a traveling stage that went through multiple locations through Dark Souls III because I feel like DS3 was when they REALLY hit gold with their environment design.
Aside from the somber beauty of the stages there’s also the character to take into account
I think there’s no way they won’t choose the Chosen Undead as the Smash character because of how he actually ties in, not only as the player character, but also as a giant part of the lore. But I also think they won’t just stick with the DS1 design for his alts so here’s my wishlist for his alts:
DS1 Basic Armor
DS2 Basic Armor Faraam:
Dark Souls 3 basic armor:
Solaire Armor:
Catarina Armor:
Knight Artorias Armor:
Soul of Cinder Armor:
Deprived:
And of course, because of how Dark Souls Weapon Swapping is, the potential for a moveset is limitless. To the point it can have scythes, swords, staves, daggers, bombs, pyromancy, axes, long swords, stance swapping, and on and on and on.
Edit: Dammit I accidentally hit post before I was done... Stand by.
I imagine a Dark Souls fighter as a sword/shield like Link or Hero, with the chance to switch between one or two hand sword use (if two hand, you can make more damage but less defense), plus a stamina bar, etus flask, homeward bone and bombs for his specials. You can also include the parry mechanic, similarly to Bayonetta.
His alts would be DS1,2 and 3 knights armours and a colour variation, alt 7 and 8 can be solaire and black knight amours (changing the name of the fighter, like Zombie or Enderman). Solaire is the most popular NPC and black knight is very iconic enemy.
I think they will choose as his stage Firelink Shrine, with tons of NPCs cameos depending which song you are playing, like Terry stage.
I'd...never...thought I'd see someone mention Deacons of the Deep. God, such an underrated track. And one that deserved a much more memorable boss fight.
So as someone who LOVES the Souls series and any game that functions as one...it just doesn't feel right when I think about trying to consider a Souls rep.
I mean, there is easily enough going on to make a moveset to be sure, if you go for the Chosen Undead, but outside of that I feel like there really is no other options. Bosses don't have enough variety in their movesets to pull from unless you got really generic with them, and while there are ones more popular than others, it really feels like you would have to go with Chosen Undead.
I'm not even sure how you would properly represent game mechanics or difficulty, and while we do have darker characters like Sephiroth Dark Souls always feels like it just goes too far in tone from the happy-go-lucky feel of Smash being a kids party game, but I'll admit that's mostly just a personal thing.
My biggest thing is picking Dark Souls over Tales seems incredibly unlikely, and there are many other franchises Bamco has that they can pull from that feel more plausible than others. Just to name a few, they have:
God Eater
Katamari
Klonoa
Soul Calibur
Tales Of
Tekken
Xenosaga
Now that isn't to say I think I personally think some of these have a better chance than Souls, but some of these really do stand out. Tekken could still get a rep as it has many iconic characters, but unfortunately I think it's doomed to not happen due to how complex of a game it is in comparison to Smash. Soul Calibur on the other hand isn't nearly as complex and also has many iconic characters to pick from, so they are easily on the table. Xenosaga could be considered and people were REALLY pushing some KOS-MOS stuff earlier this year so there may be something there, Klonoa has a bit of a fan demand as well, and Tales needs no more introduction.
Once again, not impossible, but it really feels like Souls has a lot of competition.
I've been a Capcom fan all my life. But after Megaman and Street Fighter, I have mixed feelings for about every character I can think of.
Nathan "Radd" Spencer:
My next most wanted, I'd love to have this guy, but I just can't stand another character with abysmal recovery.
Morrigan:
Always been a fan. But I feel she'd be another Shoto.
Dante:
I'm a huge fan of the series, but I just know he'll break the meta, like he always does imo.
Viewtiful Joe:
... Hey maybe I can't find anything wrong with him.
Arthur:
Not really a fan of G&G.
Monster Hunter:
Extremely interested in the series.
Not interested in the character.
Phoenix Wright:
I have no experience with it so I have no attachment. Hopefully objection counter won't get old quickly.
Samanosuke or Jubei:
Onimusha was my first PS2 game, so it's very dear to me. However, the characters themselves just don't look as interesting. Plus they're samurai, therefore, swordsmen. And although they can change weapons, I feel Ryu hayabusa coul do everything they can't only cooler.
Let's tackle these one by one to celebrate Capcom, I'm skipping Joe, Arthur and MonHun because those are cases of personal opinions so there's not much to argue there. I'm also skipping the Onimusha characters as while the series is on my list, I have zero experience outside of TvC.
Bionic Commando's thing was swinging right? Have Spencer summon flying nodes or something like what everyone and their mother suggested for Simon's recovery.
Her fighting style isn't shotokan so she literally cannot be a Shoto.
This implies that A: Dante was broken in the MvC series which while he's good, he's not that good and B: that if Dante hypothetically does end up being too strong, that he can't get nerfed.
Objection can work by other means, be it a strong hit that can make you the best character in the game like MvC, or an armoured attack as you're 'objecting' to the pressure you're being given
As others have said, people buy Mii costumes, and if they brought back some of the cut stages as paid DLC, you bet your ass people would buy that too. Hell, people would literally buy skins for existing characters if the option was available to them. Why wouldn't people buy echoes?
I'm not sold at all on there being any DLC after FP2, though open to the idea it could happen, but Echoes would 100% sell.
Objection can work by other means, be it a strong hit that can make you the best character in the game like MvC, or an armoured attack as you're 'objecting' to the pressure you're being given
Also, maybe it's just me but man, this balance patch was weird. Normally we have these HUGE patches even if most of them all just boil down to "Made certain action easier to do globally", but this one had like, 5 things on it lol.