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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Þe 1 → Way

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My 3 Most Predicted are:

Phoenix Wright
His Series has massive plans this year that both Capcom and Nintendo would want to promote given AAs Nintendo history. Phoenix was popular during 4s ballot so Sakurai probably at least thought of him. And AAs complete lack of Smash content is something I find very suspicious. Though I do admit DMC has a good shot as well.

Lloyd Irving or Yuri
Their both popular. Lloyds costume is among the few that are missing. Bandai Namco Hasn’t gotten a rep in forever despite literally developing Smash.

Elma
Was originally gonna put a Gen 8 Pokemon here, but I feel Elma beats it out with no post game content. She has massive popularity and Sakurai was gonna give Xenoblade another Rep if he had more base game time. Elma just kinda makes sense.
I’m probably wrong, but this just feels right to me.
 
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Truth the Ceomasterz33

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I don't know anything about Runescape. Who would the character be?
Popular RuneScape and OSRS Characters in Smash?
please Runescape and OSRS wiki! here!
Check Character in Smash!
 
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Michael the Spikester

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My 3 Most Predicted are:

Phoenix Wright
His has massive plans this year that both Capcom and Nintendo would want to promote given AAs Nintendo history. Phoenix was popular during 4s ballot so Sakurai probably at least thought of him. And AAs complete lack of Smash content is something I find very suspicious. Though I do admit DMC has a good shot as well.

Lloyd Irving or Yuri
Their both popular. Lloyds costume is among the few that are missing. Bandai Namco Hasn’t gotten a rep in forever despite literally developing Smash.

Elma
Was originally gonna put a Gen 8 Pokemon here, but I feel Elma beats out with no post game content. She has massive popularity and Sakurai was gonna give Xenoblade another Rep if he had more base game time. Elma just kinda makes sense.
I’m probably wrong, but this just feels right to me.
Best prediction.

Got two characters I want.

Phoenix Wright and Elma.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I think I'm guilty of wanting indie game spirits and Mii costumes because I've been playing Cyber Shadow for just a few hours (excellent experience so far btw) and already want elements of it in Smash somehow.
ive wanted spirits of the Gunvolt series since... forever, or even a mii costume with a song. GUNVOLT IS HECKIN AWESOME OK
 

Þe 1 → Way

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It's Joke!
Indeed it is, my friend. Indeed it is.

I’ve just had a weird thought. Do you think assists are on the table if they aren’t the main part of the character? Like if Mathew from Golden Sun got in but had Issac as a skin, or if Min Min came with Springman as an Alt?
This obviously doesn’t apply to those of you who think assists are already on the table.
As someone who is neutral on the assist debate, I’m interested in this.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Indeed it is, my friend. Indeed it is.

I’ve just had a weird thought. Do you think assists are on the table if they aren’t the main part of the character? Like if Mathew from Golden Sun got in but had Issac as a skin, or if Min Min came with Springman as an Alt?
This obviously doesn’t apply to those of you who think assists are already on the table.
As someone who is neutral on the assist debate, I’m interested in this.
Mainly I think Min Min joined the battle on her own because there's too much stuff in her moveset based on her. If they were to make a moveset for Felix or Matthew, they'd be making a moveset suitable for Isaac and let him join the battle as well.
 

Truth the Ceomasterz33

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Indeed it is, my friend. Indeed it is.

I’ve just had a weird thought. Do you think assists are on the table if they aren’t the main part of the character? Like if Mathew from Golden Sun got in but had Issac as a skin, or if Min Min came with Springman as an Alt?
This obviously doesn’t apply to those of you who think assists are already on the table.
As someone who is neutral on the assist debate, I’m interested in this.
What Prouns?!
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Mainly I think Min Min joined the battle on her own because there's too much stuff in her moveset based on her. If they were to make a moveset for Felix or Matthew, they'd be making a moveset suitable for Isaac and let him join the battle as well.
Yeah, I see that. Since there are no other Arms characters with Dragons Arms and have learned to use feet offensively.
I’m proposing more of hypothetical “what if?”
 

ForsakenM

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Why do you think Geno, Lloyd and Hayabusa have more chance if there's a third pass? And why do you thin Geno have any chances in the first place?
I'll try to answer this simply.

Anyone who says Geno is deconfirmed is applying fan rules pushed by the community that have been destroyed since Pre-Brawl Era. Costumes do not deconfirm and neither does Sephiroth because implying Square Enix (or any other company) can only get one character a pass is simply a fan rule based on past precedent and nothing else...just like all the others to get destroyed.

The only way for people who aren't really open-minded enough to accept this is if a third pass is announced, just like how spirits never deconfirmed but most people didn't accept it until Min Min happened. This is because people are convinced that the words of the lead director can't change from one moment to the next when Nintendo is the one who decides if DLC continues and they have made massive money from these two passes, and if Sakurai said 'these are the last DLC characters' then it has to be true and thus we only have three slots left then a character from the same company or your character as a costume means death...even though it's much more likely it will continue on form here with at least one more pass.

So, in other words, both of these fan rules (one of which is merely a small step away from 'Spirits Deconfirm') hinge on the fact that Sakurai said Pass 2 was the end, although in reality this isn't true at all even without a second pass, but the announcement of a third would kill it.

If there is a third pass, obviously more characters means more chances, provided none of the first three character get in beforehand. However, there has been rumors and actual information floating around about the latter three I mentioned which suggests they are of a more concrete nature: in other words, you couldn't blame someone if they said 'This character is a lock'.

If we get a third pass, I think that the latter characters I mentioned are more liking to appear there due to timing, however if we DON'T get a third pass I still think they are very likely than thus they would take up the last three slots of FP2. Thus, based on all this, it's much better for the former three characters if a third pass is announced, regardless if you believe in fan rules, don't believe them, or just generally.

I...I think I failed to do it simply. Sorry. This is my third rewrite, so I'm just leaving it like this.
 

ForsakenM

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People still thinks Geno has a chance?

Groans
Frankly, if you don't, you are setting yourself for another Steve situation. You know, how Banjo getting in meant no Steve?

Actually, to be more frank, literally every character the Smashbase at large has tried to place a fan rule on in Ultimate and push the narrative ridiculously hard has gotten in. From Sephiroth and Steve all the way to Ridley and even before then all the way to Pre-Brawl Era.

I think I've changed my mind. Keep spreading stupid fan rules about Geno that are just generalizations with little to no actual research. If the fan rule sticks, that means it will be broken and Geno will get in, so keep up the horribly bad good work!
 

Megadoomer

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People still thinks Geno has a chance?

Groans
There are a few characters that have been turned into Mii costumes that people still think are likely - as long as it's a video game character (within reason - not sure how many people think that a Grunt from Halo or Ice Knack stand a chance at being playable in Smash), there's no reason to mock someone because they think that it's possible for that character to get into Smash.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Frankly, if you don't, you are setting yourself for another Steve situation. You know, how Banjo getting in meant no Steve?

Actually, to be more frank, literally every character the Smashbase at large has tried to place a fan rule on in Ultimate and push the narrative ridiculously hard has gotten in. From Sephiroth and Steve all the way to Ridley and even before then all the way to Pre-Brawl Era.

I think I've changed my mind. Keep spreading stupid fan rules about Geno that are just generalizations with little to no actual research. If the fan rule sticks, that means it will be broken and Geno will get in, so keep up the horribly bad good work!
There are a few characters that have been turned into Mii costumes that people still think are likely - as long as it's a video game character (within reason - not sure how many people think that a Grunt from Halo or Ice Knack stand a chance at being playable in Smash), there's no reason to mock someone because they think that it's possible for that character to get into Smash.
Mii costumes as of this pass deconfirms. Geno's 100% dead.

Those Mii costumes were also from the previous Smash game and only ones who are Mii costumes that have a chance being in this Pass would be ones from Base game or the previous Pass like Rex for example.

Geno, Heihachi, Travis Touchdown who are Mii costumes of Pass 2. All dead, only chance if we miraclely get post-Pass 2 DLC or a Pass 3.
 
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CapitaineCrash

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I'll try to answer this simply.

Anyone who says Geno is deconfirmed is applying fan rules pushed by the community that have been destroyed since Pre-Brawl Era. Costumes do not deconfirm and neither does Sephiroth because implying Square Enix (or any other company) can only get one character a pass is simply a fan rule based on past precedent and nothing else...just like all the others to get destroyed.

The only way for people who aren't really open-minded enough to accept this is if a third pass is announced, just like how spirits never deconfirmed but most people didn't accept it until Min Min happened. This is because people are convinced that the words of the lead director can't change from one moment to the next when Nintendo is the one who decides if DLC continues and they have made massive money from these two passes, and if Sakurai said 'these are the last DLC characters' then it has to be true and thus we only have three slots left then a character from the same company or your character as a costume means death...even though it's much more likely it will continue on form here with at least one more pass.

So, in other words, both of these fan rules (one of which is merely a small step away from 'Spirits Deconfirm') hinge on the fact that Sakurai said Pass 2 was the end, although in reality this isn't true at all even without a second pass, but the announcement of a third would kill it.

If there is a third pass, obviously more characters means more chances, provided none of the first three character get in beforehand. However, there has been rumors and actual information floating around about the latter three I mentioned which suggests they are of a more concrete nature: in other words, you couldn't blame someone if they said 'This character is a lock'.

If we get a third pass, I think that the latter characters I mentioned are more liking to appear there due to timing, however if we DON'T get a third pass I still think they are very likely than thus they would take up the last three slots of FP2. Thus, based on all this, it's much better for the former three characters if a third pass is announced, regardless if you believe in fan rules, don't believe them, or just generally.

I...I think I failed to do it simply. Sorry. This is my third rewrite, so I'm just leaving it like this.
I kind of get where you're coming from, but I will have to disagree with your way of thinking. The characters are decided well in advance, so even assuming if a third pass is coming, I don't think that would change the second half of the second pass suddenly.

On your point on Geno, I do agree that two characters from the same company is probably not impossible, so I don't think that Sephiroth is a definitive end for him. But I don't see why they would announce the costume now if he was coming later in the pass. This remind me of when Waluigi was announced as an assist and some people where still thinking "Sakurai will surprise us and Waluigi will be playable later in the base game!" And yeah, some rules got destroyed, but that doesn't mean that really anything can happen. For me the costume is a hard disconfirmation, but you can think what you want, I don't want to disrespect you or anything.
 

ForsakenM

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There are a few characters that have been turned into Mii costumes that people still think are likely - as long as it's a video game character (within reason - not sure how many people think that a Grunt from Halo or Ice Knack stand a chance at being playable in Smash), there's no reason to mock someone because they think that it's possible for that character to get into Smash.
One of these in particular is Lloyd, as his costume is going to return, guaranteed.

They've return 81% of the 3rd Party Mii Costumes in only 8 Waves. The last three will come back too.
 

SharkLord

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My 3 Most Predicted are:

Phoenix Wright
His Series has massive plans this year that both Capcom and Nintendo would want to promote given AAs Nintendo history. Phoenix was popular during 4s ballot so Sakurai probably at least thought of him. And AAs complete lack of Smash content is something I find very suspicious. Though I do admit DMC has a good shot as well.

Lloyd Irving or Yuri
Their both popular. Lloyds costume is among the few that are missing. Bandai Namco Hasn’t gotten a rep in forever despite literally developing Smash.

Elma
Was originally gonna put a Gen 8 Pokemon here, but I feel Elma beats it out with no post game content. She has massive popularity and Sakurai was gonna give Xenoblade another Rep if he had more base game time. Elma just kinda makes sense.
I’m probably wrong, but this just feels right to me.
Quick correction, Sakurai said characters from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 specifically would've been considered had it released earlier, not Xenoblade as a whole.
This would 90% be Rex, who I must add also has massive popularity. I'm not the Rex expert so I don't have the details, but I've heard he's especially popular in Japan.
 

Otoad64

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Frankly, if you don't, you are setting yourself for another Steve situation. You know, how Banjo getting in meant no Steve?

Actually, to be more frank, literally every character the Smashbase at large has tried to place a fan rule on in Ultimate and push the narrative ridiculously hard has gotten in. From Sephiroth and Steve all the way to Ridley and even before then all the way to Pre-Brawl Era.

I think I've changed my mind. Keep spreading stupid fan rules about Geno that are just generalizations with little to no actual research. If the fan rule sticks, that means it will be broken and Geno will get in, so keep up the horribly bad good work!
just because a dumb fanrule was broken doesn't mean a fanrule that actually makes sense will be broken.

also they aren't "generalizations with little to no actual research"
do you know what saying geno won't get in because of a paid mii costume is? common sense!


look sometimes you just have to move on instead of saying "oh there are two microsoft reps so that means geno still has a shot!"
 
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I'll try to answer this simply.

Anyone who says Geno is deconfirmed is applying fan rules pushed by the community that have been destroyed since Pre-Brawl Era. Costumes do not deconfirm and neither does Sephiroth because implying Square Enix (or any other company) can only get one character a pass is simply a fan rule based on past precedent and nothing else...just like all the others to get destroyed.

The only way for people who aren't really open-minded enough to accept this is if a third pass is announced, just like how spirits never deconfirmed but most people didn't accept it until Min Min happened. This is because people are convinced that the words of the lead director can't change from one moment to the next when Nintendo is the one who decides if DLC continues and they have made massive money from these two passes, and if Sakurai said 'these are the last DLC characters' then it has to be true and thus we only have three slots left then a character from the same company or your character as a costume means death...even though it's much more likely it will continue on form here with at least one more pass.

So, in other words, both of these fan rules (one of which is merely a small step away from 'Spirits Deconfirm') hinge on the fact that Sakurai said Pass 2 was the end, although in reality this isn't true at all even without a second pass, but the announcement of a third would kill it.

If there is a third pass, obviously more characters means more chances, provided none of the first three character get in beforehand. However, there has been rumors and actual information floating around about the latter three I mentioned which suggests they are of a more concrete nature: in other words, you couldn't blame someone if they said 'This character is a lock'.

If we get a third pass, I think that the latter characters I mentioned are more liking to appear there due to timing, however if we DON'T get a third pass I still think they are very likely than thus they would take up the last three slots of FP2. Thus, based on all this, it's much better for the former three characters if a third pass is announced, regardless if you believe in fan rules, don't believe them, or just generally.

I...I think I failed to do it simply. Sorry. This is my third rewrite, so I'm just leaving it like this.
I think you may be oversimplifying the reasons why people think a costume makes a character unlikely.

Having a character as both a fighter and a costume as paid DLC doesn't make much business sense. They are two products that are going to cannibalize each other (mostly the fighter would cannibalize the costume's profits) and both will have licensing costs. Basically, Nintendo would be cutting its profits by making a character both things instead of just making a new mii costume.

If we were talking about an unpaid costume, I'd agree with you. It wouldn't affect anything. But the costume is paid, so it's a separate product.

I'm not saying to give up hope, just that there's a reason behind the sentiment besides just seeing patterns.
 

ForsakenM

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I nominate Kat from Gravity Rush.
I have no attachment to her or her series, but she was fun to mess with in PSABR so sure why not!

I kind of get where you're coming from, but I will have to disagree with your way of thinking. The characters are decided well in advance, so even assuming if a third pass is coming, I don't think that would change the second half of the second pass suddenly.

On your point on Geno, I do agree that two characters from the same company is probably not impossible, so I don't think that Sephiroth is a definitive end for him. But I don't see why they would announce the costume now if he was coming later in the pass. This remind me of when Waluigi was announced as an assist and some people where still thinking "Sakurai will surprise us and Waluigi will be playable later in the base game!" And yeah, some rules got destroyed, but that doesn't mean that really anything can happen. For me the costume is a hard disconfirmation, but you can think what you want, I don't want to disrespect you or anything.
I can understand why you think that, but what I was suggesting is that a third pass being announced is good for the characters chances because it means it's likely that that character like Crash, Chief and Dante will show up there rather than in this pass. I know they are all chosen well in advance, but based on the time frame of when we heard about characters like Dante of Chief starting to get rumors, it makes the most sense for them to be in a third pass.

They wouldn't change things this massively retroactively. If they are working on a third pass, it was negotiated for early on. This would mean that, when coming rumor time-frame of say Dante to the of Geno or Lloyd who were heard much earlier, an announcement of a third pass does them good both in likely being in FP2 but also if they are not there is still more DLC coming so they still ahve a chance. It's a win-win scenario for literally everyone if a third pass is revealed.

I appreciate you being civil about this. I will say however that having the costume come before the character is simple marketing. If you wanted to get the maximum profit off a skin of a character and you planned to release the character as well, you wouldn't release the costume with them or after them, you would release it before them. Otherwise people already got the real content they wanted and you can't capitalize off hype or perhaps even despair and acceptance. When you add in negotiation issues, how square is among the worst for negotiations, and how costumes have to be selected and scheduled to release at certain times and with certain characters, it starts to prove that the costume is literally just a recycled asset for a bit of easy money.

We also already know ATs don't deconfirm characters, as Spring Man was clearly considered for the ARMS rep just by basic process. This clearly gives characters like Skull Kid, Waluigi or Isaac a good push because enough time has passed between the outcry from fans that if Sakurai and the team took that to heart, they could make them a playable character.

And honestly, if an AT isn't a deconfirmation, then a costume can't even begin to compare.
 

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Quick correction, Sakurai said characters from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 specifically would've been considered had it released earlier, not Xenoblade as a whole.
This would 90% be Rex, who I must add also has massive popularity. I'm not the Rex expert so I don't have the details, but I've heard he's especially popular in Japan.
Oh, thanks. Though I do still think this bodes well for Elma. After making the Rex costume and subsequent resurgence of Elma requests its possible Sakurai moved his interest from 2 to X.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Translated by Google:
In "Pac-Land", there is an element that makes the helmet attached or transparent when you push the fire hydrant in the opposite direction. On the same stage of "Smash Bros.", there are fire hydrants that become huge when pushed in the opposite direction.

 
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SharkLord

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Oh, thanks. Though I do still think this bodes well for Elma. After making the Rex costume and subsequent resurgence of Elma popularity its possible Sakurai moved his interest from 2 to X.
Honestly, I haven't seen much resurgence of Elma support. With the one-two punch of Spirits and increase of third-party predictions, I'd imagine Elma would've been drowned out even with her biggest competitor gone. Even with Spirits being given a second chance, by then it'd be too late for popularity to affect the roster, and even then Rex is back too. Either way, I don't think Sakurai's interests would matter much when it's been clearly stated Nintendo's calling the shots.
 

Adrianette Bromide

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Oh, thanks. Though I do still think this bodes well for Elma. After making the Rex costume and subsequent resurgence of Elma popularity its possible Sakurai moved his interest from 2 to X.
I'm gonna give the benefit to Elma and say that she could end up a sort of "consolation" character. Sorry I don't mean to demean Elma like that but if Sakurai was really adamant about adding Rex to Smash but couldn't, Elma would be a sort of compromise. It would be funny for Sakurai to tell people to go out and buy themselves a Wii U hahaha.
 

SNEKeater

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Yeah, stuff like this is just weird.

It's not like with Ubisoft, where they blew their load early and released content from 3 of their major series (Rayman, Rabbids, Altair's Creed). Arcsys just put Kunio Spirits.......and that's it.

If im honest im on the camp that likely means they aren't interested in Smash enough to have a playable character, but this could easily be a first in which a company brings minor side content and later gets some major Content later. There's a first for everything i guess.
In any case it would be Nintendo not being interested in adding an ArcSys character rather than ArcSys not wanting to put their characters in Smash. I seriously doubt they would refuse, and I don't think they would be very demanding in negotiations. So maybe they wouldn't be as cheap as SNK, but definitely not expensive.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Honestly, I haven't seen much resurgence of Elma support. With the one-two punch of Spirits and increase of third-party predictions, I'd imagine Elma would've been drowned out even with her biggest competitor gone. Even with Spirits being given a second chance, by then it'd be too late for popularity to affect the roster, and even then Rex is back too. Either way, I don't think Sakurai's interests would matter much when it's been clearly stated Nintendo's calling the shots.
Really? We must have been in different places because I saw tons more Elma support after Rex was shot down.
Spirits deconfirming was always a touchy subject about whether it meant anything, we know now it didn’t but then it felt like a 50/50 in terms of people’s feelings.
And while it is true Nintendo is the one picking characters. Sakurai said he gets a list from Nintendo that he personally picks from, so if Elma was on that list it’s entirely possible he picked her.
 
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