Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Eldrake]

It could be nifty if FSs had a degree of interactivity. Like if you needed to button mash to help Sephiroth finish his math homework.

On the other hand some are just perfection. Like the only thing I'd change about Mega Man is adding even more characters and the sheer amount of spite and vitriol poured into Ridley and K.Rool's is enough for me to not want to rob them of the chance to murder their rivals over and over.

I love Ridley's Final Smash for that reason, especially because it gets ludicrous if you get a double final smash.
Ridley: Gets a Final Smash
Samus's Gunship:

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I love Ridley's Final Smash for that reason, especially because it gets ludicrous if you get a double final smash.
Ridley: Gets a Final Smash
Samus's Gunship:

Ridley's is the best if for anything because it's not even based on anything in the original series. Like he could have pulled out that Zero Mission robot or summoned Kraid but instead he just burns down Samus's home over and over because he can.

 

[Eldrake]

Ridley's is the best if for anything because it's not even based on anything in the original series. Like he could have pulled out that Zero Mission robot or summoned Kraid but instead he just burns down Samus's home over and over because he can.

If I absolutely HAD to change Ridley's Final Smash even though it's the most perfect final smash ever, it'd probably be character-contextual things like the Gunship being replaced with the Star Fox if the first target of the final smash was Fox or Falco and stuff like that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And seriously what the **** is Byleth's FS. That's like the epitome of how not to do a cutscene FS.

Progenitor God Ruptured Heaven is nice, you leave it alone! Gigaslash is the terrible one!

I'm joking but not really. I legitimately don't know why people hate Progenitor God Ruptured Heaven but then say nothing of Gigaslash, which is super disjointed and looks really bad with the moving 3D model juxtaposed against the static background.

 

[cothero]

TBH, i never liked final smashes which the user executes it summoning various characters from his respective franchise to attack like Mega Man, Shulk, Hero and Min Min does. Althought it shares cameos with other characters, it always felt pretty uncreative to me. On the other hand, Yoshi's FS had a significativelly upgrade and makes a lot of sense, since Yoshis are a species with multiple characters and it's also a direct reference to Melee's opening (which is pretty ****ing cool).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I actually like DK's new Final Smash, Even though it's very straight forward and nothing fancy it gets the job done, DKCR/Tropical Freeze had the right idea of having him finish off bosses that way too.

Donkey Kong is the "Original Powerhouse" fighter in Smash, A giant gorilla with arms the size of tree trunks and fist that hit like wrecking balls and when it's go time he also show his animalistic and beastly side too.

If you look up the word Ape*, My boy DK has a picture right next to it, He doesn't need any assist or weapon for his Final Smash, His fists are his weapons and pummeling the * out of his opponents with nothing ,But pure and raw power is what DK does best.

View attachment 299409

The bongo noises also make it clear that this is a Jungle Beat reference rather than something generic

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Progenitor God Ruptured Heaven is nice, you leave it alone! Gigaslash is the terrible one!

I'm joking but not really. I legitimately don't know why people hate Progenitor God Ruptured Heaven but then say nothing of Gigaslash, which is super disjointed and looks really bad with the moving 3D model juxtaposed against the static background.

Byleth's feels rather weak when it hits, I'd have personally liked it if the foes got stuck inside the tornado and got hacked up by the whipsword a bit more instead of flying before the sword actually connects. Gigaslash however is anime as **** which gets bonus points.


Also I think this is the only fanbase to complain about this. Never saw ArcSys fans complain about OHKOs being cinematic, Capcom fans don't do it, didn't see it for Fatalities in MK, etc. This ****'s been a staple in the entire genre since what, 20+ years? Miss me with this "Not boring enough"

 

[SharkLord]

Byleth's feels rather weak when it hits, I'd have personally liked it if the foes got stuck inside the tornado and got hacked up by the whipsword a bit more instead of flying before the sword actually connects. Gigaslash however is anime as **** which gets bonus points.


Also I think this is the only fanbase to complain about this. Never saw ArcSys fans complain about OHKOs being cinematic, Capcom fans don't do it, didn't see it for Fatalities in MK, etc. This ****'s been a staple in the entire genre since what, 20+ years? Miss me with this "Not boring enough"

I think (Think being the keyword) it's because Smash just works differently than most fighting games. You aren't stuck in fixed jump arcs, you're not always facing the opponent, the stages are bigger and more dynamic than just a flat platform, and the aim is usually knock the opponent off the stage rather than depleting the health bar. I think some people might want to have a bit more freedom of movement and such during the Final Smashes. Or maybe I'm just projecting

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Progenitor God Ruptured Heaven is nice, you leave it alone! Gigaslash is the terrible one!

I'm joking but not really. I legitimately don't know why people hate Progenitor God Ruptured Heaven but then say nothing of Gigaslash, which is super disjointed and looks really bad with the moving 3D model juxtaposed against the static background.

I mean Gigaslash is a nice homage to past DQ Stuff not in Smash and while it is not stellar, it looks passable in my eyes. Byleth's though is just awful. The Sothis jpeg and the weak animation make it look bleh. Up there among my least favorite final smashes this game alongside Pit, Young Link, and DK.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think (Think being the keyword) it's because Smash just works differently than most fighting games. You aren't stuck in fixed jump arcs, you're not always facing the opponent, the stages are bigger and more dynamic than just a flat platform, and the aim is usually knock the opponent off the stage rather than depleting the health bar. I think some people might want to have a bit more freedom of movement and such during the Final Smashes. Or maybe I'm just projecting

Idk I've never seen anyone complain about **** like this

Nonbinary one-armed Samurai who fights with a cannon teleporting you into a house before slicing the house in half. That's the good **** because it's so crazy

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Also I think this is the only fanbase to complain about this. Never saw ArcSys fans complain about OHKOs being cinematic, Capcom fans don't do it, didn't see it for Fatalities in MK, etc. This ****'s been a staple in the entire genre since what, 20+ years? Miss me with this "Not boring enough"

I mean speaking as someone who only uses final smashes when playing nonsense free for alls with friends, it is a bit disjarring. It is a little annoying to see the action take a 5-10 second pause because Steve sent someone to Minecraft is a bit of a mixed bag. Usually in other fighters it is a one on one experience where when you get hit by something like Broly's present for you or the Raging Demon, you know you are done and props to that person for comboing or conditioning you to get hit by it. In Smash, you likely have a few other people on standby waiting for the attack to finish and it can be a bit disorienting.

Keep in mind all five of my favorite Newcomers in Ultimate ( ) all have these and I do know it is annoying in free for alls. Just my taste. As much as Zelda or Peach have ******** final smashes for free for alls, at least they do not hold up the action as bad.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Eventually we'll hit the point with Nintendo hardware that Final Smashes will have the ability to be cinematic and still exist within the world of the stage. That'll be something.

 

[blackghost]

I kinda don't get why everyone think MK already pass their glory days when the now MK11, X and the 2011 reboot is praised for it's incorporation of stories in Fighting Game (even if it's sucks), and also Sakurai could very well easily based Scorpion on the old MK games, doesn't stop Ryu being based heavily on Street Fighter 2 when 4 is still relevant at that time.

ryu and Streetfighter's impact on fighting games far exceeds MK and scorpion's. mk 11 is drying up because graphics and story cutscenes dont make a game's core audience last. mechanics do and MK11 mechanics are awful in many players opinions. sfv is no masterpiece but it has retained its players better thaneven the guest character selections in 11 feel off.

street fighter 2 and 3 (mostly third strike) revolutionized fighting games. and 4 revived fighting games in general. not to mention sf 2 and 3 still have major events and tournaments cant say the same for old mk games.

Didn't someone earlier in this thread say Dante was disconfirmed because we already got a white-haired anime swordsman?
We're all varying degrees of stupid.

If "too similar to previous DLC character" disqualified a character, Hero and Byleth wouldn't be in FP1 because they're both JRPG characters and thus too similar to Joker.

I said that and I stand by it. byleth and hero are not similar in the slightest. both being from Jrpgs doesn't mean their aesthetics are overlapping or similar. hero and byleth do not share colors, weapons, personalities or mechanics. nor does joker with either. dante and sephiroth overlap ALOT. trench coat, hair color, main weapon, and more. One inspired the other for goodness sake. doesnt mean they are the same it means the two are similiar enough that it could be a choice to not go with dante as a choice and I can see why.

like if doomguy was in the game do you really think master chiefs chances wouldnt be impacted? seriously?

also funny to see some people still dont think lara croft is THE female videogame icon. i'd love to hear who they put over her. if they say peach or Samus I might lose it.

 

[SneakyLink]

Eventually we'll hit the point with Nintendo hardware that Final Smashes will have the ability to be cinematic and still exist within the world of the stage. That'll be something.

The hardware after that will transfer Final Smashes to the real world.
As a bonus, the game would be entirely 4D.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think (Think being the keyword) it's because Smash just works differently than most fighting games. You aren't stuck in fixed jump arcs, you're not always facing the opponent, the stages are bigger and more dynamic than just a flat platform, and the aim is usually knock the opponent off the stage rather than depleting the health bar. I think some people might want to have a bit more freedom of movement and such during the Final Smashes. Or maybe I'm just projecting

I mean... that, and there's the fact that GG's Instant Kills can only be activated under certain conditions, have motion inputs and, in certain games, can be escaped. And Fatalities are moved to the end of the match, because they're specifically designed as a sort of reward for the winning player rather than something you use mid-match.

The situations aren't remotely the same, really.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Eventually we'll hit the point with Nintendo hardware that Final Smashes will have the ability to be cinematic and still exist within the world of the stage. That'll be something.

By the time that happens, rollback will be so perfected that Fortnite will be able to handle it with its 100-player rooms and we'd still have Nintendo's ****ty netcode

 

[SharkLord]

Idk I've never seen anyone complain about **** like this

Nonbinary one-armed Samurai who fights with a cannon teleporting you into a house before slicing the house in half. That's the good **** because it's so crazy

To be fair Instant Kills are, y'know, instant kills. They're cool ways to finish the fight, whereas Final Smashes can happen multiple times a match. For those who play timed matches without stocks, it can get annoying to go "Gameplay, gameplay, AWESOME CUTSCENE, gameplay, AWESOME CUTSENE, ANOTHER AWESOME CUTSCENE, gameplay, gameplay." Guilty Gear gets around that because it's pretty much just "Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay, AWESOME CUTSCENE, YOU ARE DEAD!"
When you can throw out Final Smashes with such frequency, I'd kinda prefer they be closer to supers than ultimates. Maybe make it so that you need multiple Smash Balls/Meters to do the fancy cinematics, though that might be a bit awkward to implement.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean Gigaslash is a nice homage to past DQ Stuff not in Smash

It would be if the non-playable Heroes didn't have models that look like they came from a PS2 game. And the FMV looked like the framerate was higher.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To be fair Instant Kills are, y'know, instant kills. They're cool ways to finish the fight, whereas Final Smashes can happen multiple times a match. For those who play timed matches without stocks, it can get annoying to go "Gameplay, gameplay, AWESOME CUTSCENE, gameplay, AWESOME CUTSENE, ANOTHER AWESOME CUTSCENE, gameplay, gameplay." Guilty Gear gets around that because it's pretty much just "Gameplay, gameplay, gameplay, AWESOME CUTSCENE, YOU ARE DEAD!" When you can throw out Final Smashes with such frequency, I'd kinda prefer they be closer to supers than ultimates. Maybe make it so that you need multiple Smash Balls/Meters to do the fancy cinematics, though that might be a bit awkward to implement.

I never see this complaint in Marvel 3 where it happens a lot, especially as supers don't have damage scaling which makes people want to use them. Idk, half of the appeal of fighting games is seeing cool **** happen, we literally have item frequency settings to help for that, though maybe meter should get that too then I guess

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I never see this complaint in Marvel 3 where it happens a lot, especially as supers don't have damage scaling which makes people want to use them. Idk, half of the appeal of fighting games is seeing cool **** happen, we literally have item frequency settings to help for that, though maybe meter should get that too then I guess

It's also not a complain in FighterZ.

And this game as well as Marvel 2 and 3 have these ToD combos relying on multiple supers, essentially meaning that under the right conditions, getting hit once means you don't get to play the match at all.

It's far more obnoxious than Smash in that aspect because even if Final Smashes can interrupt the flow, that's the worst it really does, interrupt it. Other fighting games can outright stop that flow since they'd be match-enders even though you have a full health bar under the right conditions.

 

[SharkLord]

It's also not a complain in FighterZ.

And this game as well as Marvel 2 and 3 have these ToD combos relying on multiple supers, essentially meaning that under the right conditions, getting hit once means you don't get to play the match at all

Oh god is this what traditional fighting games are like

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

View attachment 299414
Oh god is this what traditional fighting games are like

Most of the time, no, but it can feel that way sometimes when the other person knows what they're doing.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

View attachment 299414
Oh god is this what traditional fighting games are like

Some are like that, though it's usually because you're outskilled rather than the game being unfair.

Others, like SF4, have the supers be tied to a comeback mechanic, meaning only the losing player can pull off the flashy thing.

And SF4 in particular had the "brilliant" idea in its Ultra version to add a character with a healing super under that comeback mechanic, essentially meaning they could regain health once or twice per round. And that character also happens to be able to outrange a lot of the cast too, because why not?

Thankfully, Capcom learned from that, but it's still a thing that exists.

 

[Goombaic]

View attachment 299414
Oh god is this what traditional fighting games are like

Yeah dude, and it can be the hypest **** ever.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah dude, and it can be the hypest **** ever.

That pixel health comeback is absolutely amazing and **** like that is why traditional fighters are hype.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And SF4 in particular had the "brilliant" idea in its Ultra version to add a character with a healing super under that comeback mechanic, essentially meaning they could regain health once or twice per round. And that character also happens to be able to outrange a lot of the cast too, because why not?

I was gonna say "Its additions were a Cammy clone and SFxT copypastes, what did you expect?"

Then I remembered that Elena didn't have that healing super in SFxT, they had to animate and program it for IV.

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 299414
Oh god is this what traditional fighting games are like

No wonder Final Smashes are a thing.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I was gonna say "Its additions were a Cammy clone and SFxT copypastes, what did you expect?"

Then I remembered that Elena didn't have that healing super in SFxT, they had to animate and program it for IV.

All things considered, IV still had a really damn good cast. I don't even mind the Ultra additions because despite its laziness, it still gave Final Fight even more love and made me genuinely curious about the backstory of Bison's other Dolls.

SFV pretty much outdid it with its fourth and fifth season in both quantity and quality, but Ultra SF4 still had a good roster.

Yes, even the "Cammy clone" is interesting because that's definitely one of the most unique clone movesets due to being completely repurposed as a charge character.

Made even more ironic since Decapre is a literal clone of Cammy

 

[Eldrake]

ryu and Streetfighter's impact on fighting games far exceeds MK and scorpion's. mk 11 is drying up because graphics and story cutscenes dont make a game's core audience last. mechanics do and MK11 mechanics are awful in many players opinions. sfv is no masterpiece but it has retained its players better thaneven the guest character selections in 11 feel off.

street fighter 2 and 3 (mostly third strike) revolutionized fighting games. and 4 revived fighting games in general. not to mention sf 2 and 3 still have major events and tournaments cant say the same for old mk games.





I said that and I stand by it. byleth and hero are not similar in the slightest. both being from Jrpgs doesn't mean their aesthetics are overlapping or similar. hero and byleth do not share colors, weapons, personalities or mechanics. nor does joker with either. dante and sephiroth overlap ALOT. trench coat, hair color, main weapon, and more. One inspired the other for goodness sake. doesnt mean they are the same it means the two are similiar enough that it could be a choice to not go with dante as a choice and I can see why.

like if doomguy was in the game do you really think master chiefs chances wouldnt be impacted? seriously?

also funny to see some people still dont think lara croft is THE female videogame icon. i'd love to hear who they put over her. if they say peach or Samus I might lose it.

Dante and Sephiroth has as much in common as Shulk and Cloud has as much in common with each other, two blondes with swords. Which is to say, absolutely nothing.
They don't have the same fighting style.
They don't have the same types of swords.
They don't have the same or similar personality.
They don't even have similar color schemes.
And probably the most important thing; they don't have the same audience.
Also the claim that "one inspired the other" is straight up false. He's inspired by the title character of the Cobra manga series.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Dante and Sephiroth has as much in common as Shulk and Cloud has as much in common with each other, two blondes with swords. Which is to say, absolutely nothing.
They don't have the same fighting style.
They don't have the same types of swords.
They don't have the same or similar personality.
They don't even have similar color schemes.
And probably the most important thing; they don't have the same audience.
Also the claim that "one inspired the other" is straight up false. He's inspired by the title character of the Cobra manga series.

My favorite Sephiroth moment was when he used Gunslinger to juggle Aerith's corpse.
Like at the very least say it shuts out Vergil since they're known for using the same kind of sword and are hyperfixated on using that particular weapon, Beowulf and Force Edge nonwithstanding.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually on DMC and Sephiroth

If we start getting More Ultimate mods, Nelo Angelo fits kind of well over Sephiroth, in terms of his model over Sephiroth's Moveset

 

[SharkLord]

My favorite Sephiroth moment was when he used Gunslinger to juggle Aerith's corpse.
Like at the very least say it shuts out Vergil since they're known for using the same kind of sword and are hyperfixated on using that particular weapon, Beowulf and Force Edge nonwithstanding.

I love the implication that Yamato is about a full meter in length

 

[N3ON]

If anything Sephiroth has the most in common with Villager

See?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

TBH, i never liked final smashes which the user executes it summoning various characters from his respective franchise to attack like Mega Man, Shulk, Hero and Min Min does. Althought it shares cameos with othe characters of the series, it always felt pretty uncreative to me.

I disagree when it's done well.

• Mega Legends is pretty much the hypest thing to see for a Mega Man fan since it brings all of the main versions of them together for one big blast. I dunno, it just feels right, and I think it is better than any of the alternatives, even if they aren't all that bad either. Though, I do think the inclusion of Proto Man and Bass does actually make it worse for some reason.
• Chain Attack is an actual mechanic in the Xenoblade Chronicles series, and the alternative is pretty much just Monado Buster, but as an attack, which is less exciting. Seven's edition bothers the heck out of me though. Spoilers aside, Xenoblade Chronicles doesn't have 4 members in a party. They should have a chance to replace one of them, not join them all every single time.
• Pair Up is kind of the same deal; There isn't really an alternative and it's incredibly fitting.
• I get Gigaslash in concept, and the idea of all the past heroes granting Hero their power for one big attack is great. I just don't like the execution.
• Min Min's is a little forced. A standard Rush Attack would be less flashy, but I think it would be more fitting.

I don't really have anything intelligent to add about the others.

I mean Gigaslash is a nice homage to past DQ Stuff not in Smash and while it is not stellar, it looks passable in my eyes. Byleth's though is just awful. The Sothis jpeg and the weak animation make it look bleh. Up there among my least favorite final smashes this game alongside Pit, Young Link, and DK.

Maybe I just like...erm, is it called puppet animation? more than everyone else, but I think "Sothis.jpg" looks great. Certainly not worse than how much Hero clashes with the background.

If anything Sephiroth has the most in common with Villager

slams desk

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Actually on DMC and Sephiroth

If we start getting More Ultimate mods, Nelo Angelo fits kind of well over Sephiroth, in terms of his model over Sephiroth's Moveset

People had the same thought as you

Vergil [Super Smash Bros. Ultimate] [Mods]

A Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (SSBU) Mod in the Sephiroth category, submitted by Demonslayerx8

gamebanana.com

 

[Mushroomguy12]

See Dante? This is the guy people were saying is exactly like you!

Dante:

 

[7NATOR]

People had the same thought as you

Vergil [Super Smash Bros. Ultimate] [Mods]

A Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (SSBU) Mod in the Sephiroth category, submitted by Demonslayerx8

gamebanana.com

This mod even makes One Winged form Devil Trigger. That's actually sick

But I said Nelo in Particular because I think Sephiroth's Fighting style more resembles Nelo than it does Vergil, at least the attacks Sephiroth has, but I think Sephiroth's Sword is too limp for Nelo's Sword, but the Yamato is the same width though so it kind of works

But I can't wait until we are able to Fully customize Movesets in Ultimate, though I think it would take many years because Nintendo is on the watch for Homebrewing and stuff.

If anything Sephiroth has the most in common with Villager

See?

I don't get it. Is the Fruit supposed to be the materia, and that's why he's like Sephiroth?

 

[hyrogon]

Idk I've never seen anyone complain about **** like this

Nonbinary one-armed Samurai who fights with a cannon teleporting you into a house before slicing the house in half. That's the good **** because it's so crazy

Is Baiken actually nonbinary? That’s cool

 

[Guynamednelson]

Maybe I just like...erm, is it called puppet animation? more than everyone else

It's limited animation that's going on with Sothis.png.

I don't get it. Is the Fruit supposed to be the materia, and that's why he's like Sephiroth?

Dis pear.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's limited animation that's going on with Sothis.png.

Well yes, but there's a term for the specific process of manipulating a single image like this.