Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

except rosalina uses things from Mario galaxy that she can do or has used.

the luma’s are her pets and they’re known for defending rosalina so that’s not made up

she can use the star to transport so that’s not made up

you can shoot starbit’s at luma’s in galaxy so that being apart of her moveset Isn’t made up.

she’s an established god with god like abilities. They pulled moves from galaxy. Pauline doesn’t have much to go off when she’s been established as a human with nothing special.

Not really though.

Her moveset's foundation is based on her connection to the Lumas, that is 100% true, but she's never used a Launch Star or launched Star Bits. Those were both done by other...things. What abilities she had shown are ironically not stuff they gave her, as her magic barrier, weird galaxy clone thingy, and her Spin Attack aren't accounted for (unless you count the shield, but it doesn't really have the same look so I personally wouldn't).

As far as being a god...her actual abilities are extremely nebulous, with the most godly act actually being handled by the Lumas using their inherent ability to transform into gameplay mechanics, planets, and galaxies. In turn, her attacks in Super Smash Bros. are mostly just flavored around said nebulous abilities or reference a mechanic from Super Mario Galaxy. It's not unique to her either, as you'll find similar stuff in movesets like that of R.O.B.'s, Duck Hunt's, and most characters from the Fire Emblem series (though to be fair it's more common in a character's normal set than their special set).

In a similar vein, I don't think Pauline being a normal human is going to stop them from figuring out something fun and interesting, even if her entire moveset is just based on the fact that she's a singer with an aesthetic straight from the '60s ('50s?), which in itself is fairly unique among the existing cast.

Gonna be honest this speculation cycle for the last character isn't quite as exciting as I expected. I figured tensions would be high but many seem to have fizzled out and just want it to be over at this point which I understand. There aren't really any rumors to talk about, a lot of the potential reps have been deconfirmed. Even the smash youtubers have slowed down. I'm still really excited to see the last character but the speculation side of things has been pretty boring.

The fact that we're getting more mileage out of speculating on the next game's newcomers than we are this game's newcomers says a lot.

Like legit, any argument that you can possibly make for any character as the next one sounds like a crackpot theory.

 

[Sucumbio]

Pauline doesn’t have much to go off when she’s been established as a human with nothing special.

sniffle Mario special

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I've actually been curious about how many "shill" characters we've gotten over the years so I've made a pretty decent list:
Suppose it goes to show that no Smash game is without recency bias.
View attachment 330662

Consider also that the roster for 64, Melee and Brawl were finalised in 1997, 1999 and 2005 respectively.
Also, Little Mac is a 1987 character so he is longstanding as well.

 

[Momotsuki]

of course kazuya isn’t better than pyra/mythra or joker, never said he was.

all 3 of these characters are broken as **** and clear evidence of the dlc powercreep in fp2. TBH idek why or how people attempt to defend it at this point, literally every character in fp2 is busted lmfao

The best character in the game is part of the original 12, and even they're not "busted" to an overcentralizing extent. That kind of deals a blow to the whole "powercreep" thing.

But unless you're a top player whose career is based around playing and winning at Smash, why do you even care?

 

[Inue Houji]

Been gone since Kazuya's release, any interesting new rumors/leaks?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

sniffle Mario special

If we go into memey territory than all of Super Mario's humans are like the most athletic people in the world, with Peach and Daisy even being able to do this crap in heels.

Also Pauline can sing infinitely. That's talent.

 

[Sucumbio]

I've actually been curious about how many "shill" characters we've gotten over the years so I've made a pretty decent list:
Suppose it goes to show that no Smash game is without recency bias.
View attachment 330662

Am I reading this wrong?

Roy's before Ike... I has a confused. Sheik is it what?the5ss

Wait shill means this game is coming out or recently came out so here's a character from it like byleth...

Or are u joking? Lol

Edit nvm! I get it now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Been gone since Kazuya's release, any interesting new rumors/leaks?

Nope. We in the dead zone now.

 

[Idon]

I feel like there could be an argument for Hero to be recent release since DQ11 S came out right around when he was added to smash.

That's true, but if we count ports and sequels and spinoffs and the like, this list would be crazier than it already is and most characters would then fall into more recent entries leaving longstanding to be just characters from dead games.

Consider also that the roster for 64, Melee and Brawl were finalised in 1997, 1999 and 2005 respectively.
Also, Little Mac is a 1987 character so he is longstanding as well.

Oh yeah my bad. For some reason I just assumed the Wii one was the only one there was lol. Too many memories associated with it.

 

[Dukefire]

Quick sidenote. The SSBC team has dropped an update video.

 

[FreeFox]

Quick sidenote. The SSBC team has dropped an update video.

That is a pretty sweet roster. Some cool choices here and there. I am surprised this is the first time I hear of this.

 

[Perkilator]

Another quick sidenote:

BREAKING: Kingdom Hearts makes its way into Adult Swim's Robot Chicken

—No, we didn't expect that one either.https://t.co/BHA8aJBK9O pic.twitter.com/QXDaAIFK4b

— KH13 · for Kingdom Hearts (@KH13com) September 18, 2021

I'll take "the last thing I expected in 2021" for $800

In all seriousness, I think it's cool that KH is being acknowledged like this

Which means it can clearly be acknowledged in Smash with just the KH-original content

 

[DarthEnderX]

Trust me, I've seen many a discussion about the biggest meme in the Mario franchise, a lot of which I don't necessarily agree with but would rather avoid all the same...

I mean...it's Bowsette.

Are you happy with the way was implemented in Smash?

Yes.

His gimmick is overly complicated, but he's still a fully functional character even if you don't use his gimmick. Unlike Hero or Steve.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I mean...it's Bowsette.

I meant the OTHER meme.

(Although I'm just gonna say that if Warner Bros are willing to acknowledge Big Chungus and Ultra Instinct Shaggy, then Nintendo should at least consider acknowledging Bowsette).

 

[N3ON]

Another quick sidenote:

BREAKING: Kingdom Hearts makes its way into Adult Swim's Robot Chicken

—No, we didn't expect that one either.https://t.co/BHA8aJBK9O pic.twitter.com/QXDaAIFK4b

— KH13 · for Kingdom Hearts (@KH13com) September 18, 2021

I'll take "the last thing I expected in 2021" for $800

In all seriousness, I think it's cool that KH is being acknowledged like this

Which means it can clearly be acknowledged in Smash with just the KH-original content

Kingdom Hearts in Robot Chicken... OR... Robot Chicken World in Kingdom Hearts?

 

[Perkilator]

Here's a fun little game

 

[DanganZilla5]

Are you happy with the way was implemented in Smash?

Quite happy. I was not expecting him to be fun to play as casually as he is. Even if you are not pulling off a fancy combo he is still fun because every hit just packs a ton of force and the sound effects just make playing as him more satisfying. Like for real those fists sure do sound like iron fists.

In terms of the stage I like how similar it is to KOF Stadium which is one of my favorites because of the wall mechanic and Mishima's Dojo is very fun in the same way because hitting your opponents through walls just feels so good. And the music selection is really good too. So overall I'd say he is actually one of my favorite DLC characters and overall challlenger packs.

 

[Ivander]

I meant the OTHER meme.

(Although I'm just gonna say that if Warner Bros are willing to acknowledge Big Chungus and Ultra Instinct Shaggy, then Nintendo should at least consider acknowledging Bowsette).

I mean, it almost happened a year before Bowsette was made, considering that concept art of Bowser possessing Peach for SMOdyssey.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if an "official Bowsette" happened at some point.

 

[Baba]

I've actually been curious about how many "shill" characters we've gotten over the years so I've made a pretty decent list:
Suppose it goes to show that no Smash game is without recency bias.
View attachment 330662

I know that Punch-Out got a reboot, but Mac still counts as a retro character in my eyes. If you're gonna count Palutena in the top group, Mac should be up there too.

 

[Idon]

I know that Punch-Out got a reboot, but Mac still counts as a retro character in my eyes. If you're gonna count Palutena in the top group, Mac should be up there too.

Yeah I already addressed that. Was a mistake on my part.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Here's a fun little game

I got Ace Attorney. This is fine.

 

[ZelDan]

Another quick sidenote:

BREAKING: Kingdom Hearts makes its way into Adult Swim's Robot Chicken

—No, we didn't expect that one either.https://t.co/BHA8aJBK9O pic.twitter.com/QXDaAIFK4b

— KH13 · for Kingdom Hearts (@KH13com) September 18, 2021

I'll take "the last thing I expected in 2021" for $800

In all seriousness, I think it's cool that KH is being acknowledged like this

Which means it can clearly be acknowledged in Smash with just the KH-original content

They made a skit about FFVII years ago, and have referenced/spoofed various other game franchises throughout the years. This isn't really that surprising to me tbh.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've actually been curious about how many "shill" characters we've gotten over the years so I've made a pretty decent list:
Suppose it goes to show that no Smash game is without recency bias.
View attachment 330662

Why is Ganondorf in a different spot from Sheik?

The debuted in the same Zelda AND Smash game?

 

[Idon]

Why is Ganondorf in a different spot from Sheik?

The debuted in the same Zelda AND Smash game?

That... was also a mistake, though not a logical one, just a misclick.

Before I had a "Melee Clone" tier list where I put Ganondorf, Falco, Roy, and Dr. Mario, on account of the fact that that's the only reason some of those characters got in, but decided against it so I dragged everyone back to their original places... except for Ganondorf whom I placed for some reason... there?

and Young Link now that you mention it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Why is Ganondorf in a different spot from Sheik?

The debuted in the same Zelda AND Smash game?

Pretending that Ganondorf isn't Ganon(even though he is, and thus, debuted in LoZ1), Ganondorf is first mentioned in LttP.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's a fun little game

OK, let's go with a new series since the existing ones don't have too many options that would cater to me specifically.
Let's go big since that has the highest chance of getting me hyped just on name recognition.
1st party is obviously going to be a Pokémon, so let's go 3rd Party.
Give me chaos. I want to be hyped with this pick. Maybe like a Sony chara-
...
Too much chaos.

EDIT: I'm pretty easy to please, but I do still have expectations, and they weren't at "elaborate crappost".

 

[Baba]

Been gone since Kazuya's release, any interesting new rumors/leaks?

Not really. Leaks and speculation have definitely been winding down. We haven't even been getting any entertaining fake leaks.

 

[Idon]

Anyways, with those errors pointed out, this is how the list should look more or less.

 

[Sucumbio]

Here's a fun little game

Jeff K. Lol

 

[WahHahaha]

Anyways, with those errors pointed out, this is how the list should look more or less.
View attachment 330676

I disagree with Pyra/Mythra and Min Min being "soft shills" cause it doesn't matter how much time passed between their games releasing in them being included, the whole entire reason they made it in anyway was to increase popularity for 2 relatively small first party titles.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I disagree with Pyra/Mythra and Min Min being "soft shills" cause it doesn't matter how much time passed between their games releasing in them being included, the whole entire reason they made it in anyway was to increase popularity for 2 relatively small first party titles.

Is that not the purpose of a shill?

Anyway, I think Idon's comment in the previous attempt has a better verdict; each game in the series has its fair share of recency bias.

 

[Sucumbio]

Anyways, with those errors pointed out, this is how the list should look more or less.
View attachment 330676

So in conclusion Zelda, Fire Emblem and Pokemon are the shillingest shillers since shilling came to shill town

 

[WahHahaha]

Is that not the purpose of a shill?

Anyway, I think Idon's comment in the previous attempt has a better verdict; each game in the series has its fair share of recency bias.

Not exactly, the key difference here is that these are both characters from 1st party switch titles that are relatively unpopular. A character like Incineroar, for example is from a pretty huge franchise and it's obvious to include a character like him. Pyra/Mythra and Min Min are basically just ad characters with no other real merit for their inclusions. Which funnily enough, is the same for Byleth and Corrin, yet they are one tier below them.

 

[Sucumbio]

Arms and xc2 are relatively unpopular?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not exactly, the key difference here is that these are both characters from 1st party switch titles that are relatively unpopular.

Not sure what you mean there, but while shill is supposed to be a dirogetory term, it's definition isn't inherently negative, so you can have a "shill" character that people like or from a game people like.

 

[WahHahaha]

Not sure what you mean there, but while shill is supposed to be a dirogetory term, it's definition isn't inherently negative, so you can have a "shill" character that people like or from a game people like.

That wasn't what I was saying, I was talking about sales, also I edited my post with further explanation.

 

[Idon]

I disagree with Pyra/Mythra and Min Min being "soft shills" cause it doesn't matter how much time passed between their games releasing in them being included, the whole entire reason they made it in anyway was to increase popularity for 2 relatively small first party titles.

I'd prefer to stick to solid and concrete numbers. I could go into several characters and discuss whether they were added due to their popularity or rather as a signal boost or to capitalize on sales or etc etc.
With numbers there is no ambiguity and thus, no room for argument (at least in terms of of the math).

And well, as far as XC2 goes, I think that's easily already earned its spot for Ultimate.
After all, Sakurai had already told us that the only reason Rex didn't make it in the base roster was due to missing the character decision time window and that's why he's a mii costume bonus for FP1 buyers, an issue Nintendo rectified by picking Pyra/Mythra for FP2, something they would not have done had XC2 not succeeded, with as of right now, 2 million+ sales.

 

[WahHahaha]

I'd prefer to stick to solid and concrete numbers. I could go into several characters and discuss whether they were added due to their popularity or rather as a signal boost or to capitalize on sales or etc etc.

With numbers there is no ambiguity and thus, no room for argument (at least in terms of of the math).

The numbers say that Pyra/Mythra and Min Min are hard shills, Arms had 2.3 million and Xenoblade had 1.92 million. These numbers aren't poor, but they still aren't very high compared to the sales of plenty of other switch games and especially Pokemon Gen 7, so I don't know how Incineroar is in the same tier.

And well, as far as XC2 goes, I think that's easily already earned its spot for Ultimate. After all, Sakurai had already told us that the only reason Rex didn't make it in the base roster was due to missing the character decision time window and that's why he's a mii costume bonus for FP1 buyers, an issue Nintendo rectified by picking Pyra/Mythra for FP2, something they would not have done had XC2 not succeeded.

I think that was more of an assumption on Sakurai's part, like he would have included Rex because it's a character that he thinks Nintendo would have wanted to add, which is clearly true since Nintendo ended up picking him. Kind of like when he was talking about why Mario didn't have any moves from Odyssey or Zelda wasn't based on breath of the wild, he just usually ends up adding characters from 1st party Nintendo games.

 

[SharkLord]

Here's a fun little game

Alright, unrepresented series...
Smaller character...
Nintendo connections...
Yeah, let's go the extra mile and add an indie...
It's friggin Rhythm Link

 

[osby]

"This game sold worse than Pokemon so it's unpopular," tells you that the argument isn't in good faith lol.