Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[MarioKartRenderOwner]

oh man did i miss waluigi discourse? i love talking him haha

i'll be honest as someone who really loves waluigi i often see a lot of "oh he's just a meme pick character" type arguments and to an extent i get it, he's popular in meme culture and such, but im also always very surprised the sheer amount of discourse surrounding the dude, maybe i just take getting into smash a lot less seriously than most people, because my main argument for waluigi is usually just it'd be fun if he got in, he's a funny dude with a big personality, anytime games let waluigi show off he really shows off and i think it'd be fun to see how the smash team would handle his...waluiginess
https://youtu.be/Gy_k-DjHiig

I tend not to be the biggest fan of "meme character" type arguments i tend to see because i think it's often just used as a silly way to knock characters down, you could consider sora a meme character at this point for how he's treated in smash speculation culture or even like dante now, but i think it's just a bit silly

i will never try to debate waluigi is a gaming all star but i do occasionally think people downplay how well known the dude is, whenever nintendo makes general merch lines he's shockingly high priority and the truth of the matter is if you talked to anyone on the street (west side of the world in this case) there's a good chance they will know waluigi before most other smash characters, my mom knows who waluigi is, i had classmates who were non-gamers in highschool make jokes about the dude once or twice, obviously all starness is a silly reason to get into smash so i don't think this matters but i do think there would be buzz if he got in



I guess on a deeper level i do have an earnest appreciation for waluigi as a character, i think he's a bit cursed for being a bit of well defined character who never gets put in places to show it off, very few mario characters hit that sweet spot like Bowser and Luigi. Rosalina has a good backstory but in a lot of recent games feels very "just there" in terms of character, Daisy is very spunky and fun but is in no places to really show it off either. I like waluigi's character, he's often defined, including by Charles himself, as someone who both thinks incredibly highly of himself but also wallows in self pity, he's often seen now kinda portraying himself as a huge romantic full with the rose and everything but is very quick to wallow and throw temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way, it's a bit of endeering bit of personality for a dude who mostly appears in spinoffs (they don't even give this dude wario ware apperences)

i'm posting this late and it'll get swallowed by morning posts but i like waluigi! i understand the kinda backflash towards him smash wise, i can kinda get when you see a character so much you get a little sick of them (sora is a decent example here i get so tired of the same 3 sora gifs in smash tweet replies haha) but i have an appreciation of him, i won't lose sleep if he misses out on smash but i think he'd be a fun inclusion and honestly, in terms of the world of smash a really fun book end to the roster considering how much it's joked about him missing out

he is a man who needs no pity but yet has mine, truly, it's that irrestiable face

 

[DarthEnderX]

Random question but uh...You know how Guilty Gear Xrd has a character specific lighting system? Er, well I suppose a more noticeable example of this technique is Foust from Guilty Gear Strive, but I think the previous game in the series uses it more. My question is, what would you guys think of this kind of thing being used in Super Smash Bros. as a way of allowing characters to take a piece of their game/series's artstyle with them?

I prefer it when a game has a cohesive art style.

Last thing Smash needs is to pull a Capcom Fighting Evolution...

 

[Shroob]

I do wonder what their plan for next week is.


Last week was the Nindies Direct
This week was the Pokemon Direct


I SEVERELY doubt we'll get the General Direct this upcoming week, but it does kinda feel like we'll get something next week, that may or may not lead into the General Direct the following week after, maybe.



Maybe a new game ala that Kirby game we got last year?



There's like a 1% chance it's a Smash Direct but.... nah, I wouldn't bank on it.

 

[XorahnGaia]

I do wonder what their plan for next week is.


Last week was the Nindies Direct
This week was the Pokemon Direct


I SEVERELY doubt we'll get the General Direct this upcoming week, but it does kinda feel like we'll get something next week, that may or may not lead into the General Direct the following week after, maybe.



Maybe a new game ala that Kirby game we got last year?



There's like a 1% chance it's a Smash Direct but.... nah, I wouldn't bank on it.

Next week Gamescom is going to take place and it's also when No More Heroes 3 comes out.
I don't think we'll get anything from Nintendo since in general, they don't seem to want their Directs to overlap with other major gaming events even if they're not participating in said event, and even I don't think they want to take attention away from NMH3.

Following this logic I think the best timeframes for the General Direct is either the week before WarioWare releases (so the week of August 31st) or the week after the game releases (the week of the 13th of September). Either way, if a General Direct is scheduled for September it will most certainly take place before the Tokyo Game Show.

 

[Staarih]

I do wonder what their plan for next week is.

Flood their social media with No More Heroes 3 promotion obviously.
I hope the game does well...

But maybe some Twitter drop (like the WarioWare demo just now, who saw that coming?). I think Direct-wise we'll have to wait a bit longer to September.

 

[Shroob]

Next week Gamescom is going to take place and it's also when No More Heroes 3 comes out.
I don't think we'll get anything from Nintendo since in general, they don't seem to want their Directs to overlap with other major gaming events even if they're not participating in said event, and even I don't think they want to take attention away from NMH3.

Following this logic I think the best timeframes for the General Direct is either the week before WarioWare releases (so the week of August 31st) or the week after the game releases (the week of the 13th of September). Either way, if a General Direct is scheduled for September it will most certainly take place before the Tokyo Game Show.

Makes sense.


Looking at the history of September Directs, they've fallen anywhere between the 4th to the 17th, with the 13th being multiple times.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Makes sense.


Looking at the history of September Directs, they've fallen anywhere between the 4th to the 17th, with the 13th being multiple times.

And speaking of September, the 11th will not only be the 20th birthday of the 9/11 incident, but also the 6th birthday of Super Mario Maker! I actually got it on launch day back when I had a Wii U!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

They don't understand the concept of diminishing returns.

Wuh, how is Waluigi a diminishing return?

Yes.

"Being a 10th string character in a current franchise is more important than being a major character that hasn't been around lately.

So Pidgey > Isaac"

-basically what you are saying.

Yes, and the former has more moveset potential too. Glad we could come to an agreement.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Wuh, how is Waluigi a diminishing return

He isn't, but trying to expand Smash's audience will result in 'em when it's a 3 year old game that already sold 25 million.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I prefer it when a game has a cohesive art style.

Last thing Smash needs is to pull a Capcom Fighting Evolution...

Well the goal would be to do this while still keeping a art style that looks cohesive. I wouldn't push it so far that the character models look like they were made for different games, and if it looked like that anyway I would definitely agree that it shouldn't be done.

 

[Theguy123]

I’ve been having a bit of thought I didn’t put much effort into so

what are the chances that the way the characters were chosen for pass 2 was because they did better than other characters from those companies on the ballot. Is it a possibility that’s how pass 2 was decided and we’d just never know because Nintendo and sakurai along with other companies are good at dodging things like this.

i had a thought for pass 2 that maybe they looked at the ballot and went with the characters who finished the highest on the ballot out of those companies they chose (besides min min who Nintendo just really really wanted in the game for some weird reason out of any other Nintendo rep)

is it far fetched to assume pyra/myphra, sephiroth, Steve and kazuya were chosen because they finished the highest on the ballot out of their companies.

didn’t put much thought into this. Was just theorising how the ballot could actually have been used for dlc. Pass 2 more or less because the characters haven’t really been to promote anything.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

He isn't, but trying to expand Smash's audience will result in 'em when it's a 3 year old game that already sold 25 million.

That makes sense, there’s not a lot of fish in the sea that needs the final DLC character to be convinced to buy Smash Ultimate. Am wondering though what type of character doesn’t have that problem.

To give my view on the discussion on Waluigi, Waluigi is a weird character to go through the ringer and argue iconicness or star power for. Not because he doesn’t have it, but his claim to fame is really mostly the overwhelming surge of popularity he received for Smash at E3 and the overall latent popularity he enjoys in the Mario fanbase and Smash fanbase.

He’s not a character that really has those spikes of popularity whenever a new Mario game is released because a Mario game is released every year or so and he’s just there. That sort of staying power is impressive and despite the amount of characters in this pool of returnees being not particularly small, Waluigi is one of the few characters in it that isn’t in Smash yet.

Waluigi also enjoys the lack of competition in other ways: Paper Mario is dwindling and isn’t a big name in speculation despite the release of Origami King last year. Captain Toad himself seems to unfortunately have peaked in the WiiU era and isn’t really in sight either. Geno is a Mii Costume. This combined with the popularity mentioned before, does put him in some sort of frontrunner position for a Mario slot.

To go back to his staying power, I’d argue that it is a merit on its own. To place him in the leagues of Ridley and K. Rool is a bridge too far, but being consistently playable in one of the most high-profile games on the planet is nothing to scoff at, and it’s the selbstverständlichkeit he does it with that makes it a strength. He’s no Dry Bones occasionally popping in when there’s DLC to be had, he’s consistently part of a starter 8 pack.

Looking back on Daisy, I do believe that it is the Echo system that allowed her recurring palette swap to be grandfathered in as the real deal and Waluigi seemingly doesn’t have the means to cheat himself onto the roster like that. However, he doesn’t have to make the roster entirely on merit alone since again he does have the popularity surge to jump some hoops. We wouldn’t be talking about pack11 being a Mario character if we weren’t talking about Waluigi, so he does have notoriety outside of being someone that could technically skip the line to the Mario frontrunner spot: His circumstances too are exceptional in the sense that his popularity gives him a seat at the speculation table period, a similar factor to Daisy being essentially the ideal Echo Fighter with her history of being stuck in the non-playable role of Peach‘s number two.

I’ve been having a bit of thought I didn’t put much effort into so

what are the chances that the way the characters were chosen for pass 2 was because they did better than other characters from those companies on the ballot. Is it a possibility that’s how pass 2 was decided and we’d just never know because Nintendo and sakurai along with other companies are good at dodging things like this.

i had a thought for pass 2 that maybe they looked at the ballot and went with the characters who finished the highest on the ballot out of those companies they chose (besides min min who Nintendo just really really wanted in the game for some weird reason out of any other Nintendo rep)

is it far fetched to assume pyra/myphra, sephiroth, Steve and kazuya were chosen because they finished the highest on the ballot out of their companies.

didn’t put much thought into this. Was just theorising how the ballot could actually have been used for dlc. Pass 2 more or less because the characters haven’t really been to promote anything.

Would we be counting Monolith Soft as their own company or would we count them as Nintendo? Furthermore, would we count Cloud as the highest scoring FF ballot character to lead to Sepiroth or would Sepiroth himself also have been the second most voted Square Enix character? Would the same apply to Steve and Banjo-Kazooie? As much as this theory could make sense, the characters picked for Fighters Pass 2 don’t really mesh well with such a theory.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

pyra/myphra

We first learned about them in 2017. Kewp that in mind and ask yourself when the ballot closed instead of reaching

 

[Theguy123]

We first learned about them in 2017. Kewp that in mind and ask yourself when the ballot closed instead of reaching

okay so maybe not pyra and myphra but I could see xenoblade 1 and xenoblade x being some of Nintendo’s high finishing games in the ballot and then with pyra and myphra becoming fan favourites later on they decide to combine that popularity with the popularity for xenoblade and xenoblade x and add pyra and myphra to smash.

maybe it’s far fetched but I could imagine Steve being the highest placed Microsoft character, sephiroth being square Enix’s highest placed fighter or 2nd highest and kazuya being the highest placed Namco rep or heihachi which could’ve pushed Nintendo to go for these reps.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wonder how well Neku did on the ballot

 

[osby]

Speaking of the ballot, I still don't know why people insist on treating it like a Holy Grail of objective fan request measure and Nintendo is being dishonest by not using it as their only source of Smash additions when nobody I know voted just once.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I wonder how well Neku did on the ballot

I can only assume the vast majority of people that want Neku want Sora even more, and that's likely where their vote went.

Speaking of the ballot, I still don't know why people insist on treating it like a Holy Grail of objective fan request measure and Nintendo is being dishonest by not using it as their only source of Smash additions when nobody I know voted just once.

You're assuming Nintendo doesn't have a way of telling.

...and I only voted once.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I can only assume the vast majority of people that want Neku want Sora even more, and that's likely where their vote went.

I know he's appeared in Kingdom Hearts but only in one game as far as I know, so I'm not sure how much the The World Ends With You and Kingdom Hearts fans overlap.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I’ve been having a bit of thought I didn’t put much effort into so

You always have thoughts don’t you lol

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I wish I knew people in Japan to ask them how much is Sora talked about

 

[RawkHawk2010]

Pic of the Day:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

For those unaware, the Titan in the background is named "Goldmouth".

 

[SNEKeater]

I know he's appeared in Kingdom Hearts but only in one game as far as I know, so I'm not sure how much the The World Ends With You and Kingdom Hearts fans overlap.

The overlap is definitely there but more on the TWEWY side.
Kingdom Hearts is a lot more popular, unfortunately not all KH fans even know of TWEWY. And for a lot of them Neku and other TWEWY characters appearing in KH Dream Drop Distance was their very first contact with The World Ends with You.

I'd say most people who want both will root more for Neku because in my experience fans of both series are more into TWEWY.

Personally while Sora is cool I'd take Neku over him easily but I know I'm part of a very small minority.

 

[Theguy123]

You always have thoughts don’t you lol

yup lol

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Speaking of the ballot, I still don't know why people insist on treating it like a Holy Grail of objective fan request measure and Nintendo is being dishonest by not using it as their only source of Smash additions when nobody I know voted just once.

True.
Dont forget that the highest placing characters aren’t even eligible to get in the game as they aren’t even video game characters, making the ballot less of a reliable tool to understand what eligible characters fans want

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You're assuming Nintendo doesn't have a way of telling.

They did.

A website where people could vote for the characters they would like to see as playable fighters in Smash. Starting in April 2015 and ending in October of the same year, we collected approximately 1.8 million votes worldwide (after removing blatantly duplicated or repeated votes).

True.
Dont forget that the highest placing characters aren’t even eligible to get in the game as they aren’t even video game characters, making the ballot less of a reliable tool to understand what eligible characters fans want

Except non video game characters would have been disqualified by default since the rules explicitly discount them, so the results would have never been affected by any votes for Goku and Shrek. They'd just be tossed away by default.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

New Metroid Dread trailer:

I kinda like the classic color scheme of the suit more and would really like to know why it suddenly turns blue.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Except non video game characters would have been disqualified by default since the rules explicitly discount them, so the results would have never been affected by any votes for Goku and Shrek. They'd just be tossed away by default.

Good point.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The overlap is definitely there but more on the TWEWY side.
Kingdom Hearts is a lot more popular, unfortunately not all KH fans even know of TWEWY. And for a lot of them Neku and other TWEWY characters appearing in KH Dream Drop Distance was their very first contact with The World Ends with You.

I'd say most people who want both will root more for Neku because in my experience fans of both series are more into TWEWY.

Personally while Sora is cool I'd take Neku over him easily but I know I'm part of a very small minority.

I know DDD was the first time Ive seen twewy character but I didnt pay must attention to Neku. My eyes were focused on Joshua
And the freaking blatant SoraxRiku subtext

 

[SKX31]

Speaking of the ballot, I still don't know why people insist on treating it like a Holy Grail of objective fan request measure and Nintendo is being dishonest by not using it as their only source of Smash additions when nobody I know voted just once.

Have to guess it's because it's the only ballot / poll with its sheer size and official backing, and Sakurai's / Ninty's claim that Bayonetta won (amongst realizable characters, as intentionally vague as the phrasing was) did put additional spotlight on it.

Still though, it doesn't have much if any value any longer now that it's (very likely) served its purpose and a lot of time has passed since.

New Metroid Dread trailer:


I kinda like the classic color scheme of the suit more and would really like to know why it suddenly turns blue.

"Treat our lost assets with care, Lady."

Um, this Federal representatives knows the consistent rule that "Whereever Samus goes **** explodes" right?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Mario Kart fans win today
Kamek will make his playable debut in a Mario Kart game starting on Wednesday.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Theguy123]

Mario Kart fans win today
Kamel will make his playable debut in a Mario Kart game starting on Wednesday.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

love Mario kart tour soo much. I’m still baffled though to why all the new characters got put in tour and not dlc for Mk8dx. I guess it’s because they need reasons to keep MKT interesting but that’s anyone’s guess.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Treat our lost assets with care, Lady."

Um, this Federal representatives knows the consistent rule that "Whereever Samus goes **** explodes" right?

Well she does immediately turn around and obliterate the first one she finds with the Omega Cannon so I guess their fears have merit. lol

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

New Metroid Dread trailer:

I kinda like the classic color scheme of the suit more and would really like to know why it suddenly turns blue.

This game keeps getting better.
Is the robot voice supposed to be Adam? Lady was his catchphrase in Fusion. It’d be a really neat detail if so.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

love Mario kart tour soo much. I’m still baffled though to why all the new characters got put in tour and not dlc for Mk8dx. I guess it’s because they need reasons to keep MKT interesting but that’s anyone’s guess.

I agree that they could add some DLC to 8 Deluxe, but personally I’m fine with Tour rn. If they keep adding more content like what they just announced with Kamek, and even step up their course game and decrease the quantity of some of their gacha features, that’d be great. I don’t mind having to wait another year or two for the next mainline MK game, whether it’s gonna be called 9 or something else. Who knows they could pull an Apple and skip 9 and just make Mario Kart X because why not.

 

[Theguy123]

I agree that they could add some DLC to 8 Deluxe, but personally I’m fine with Tour rn. If they keep adding more content like what they just announced with Kamek, and even step up their course game and decrease the quantity of some of their gacha features, that’d be great. I don’t mind having to wait another year or two for the next mainline MK game, whether it’s gonna be called 9 or something else. Who knows they could pull an Apple and skip 9 and just make Mario Kart X because why not.

yeah I agree. Heard that coconut mall was datamined. We should be getting that at some point. Who knows when though but it seems they know what they’ve gotta do to keep the game interesting

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This game keeps getting better.
Is the robot voice supposed to be Adam? Lady was his catchphrase in Fusion. It’d be a really neat detail if so.

I believe they confirmed it as Adam in the treehouse but I could be remembering wrong.

love Mario kart tour soo much. I’m still baffled though to why all the new characters got put in tour and not dlc for Mk8dx. I guess it’s because they need reasons to keep MKT interesting but that’s anyone’s guess.

When we said we wanted Mario Kart to pull an "Everyone is Here!" we didn't mean stick everyone into a gacha game!

Even so this game has a pretty good roster of new characters:

• Hammer Bro. (not counting the other Bro. variants as different characters)
• Monty Mole
• Peachette
• Pauline
• Captain Toad
• Mario (SNES)
• Dixie Kong
• Nabbit
• King Bob-omb
• Kamek

The only thing they could possibly do to make it better is to start including spin-off characters like Fawful, Paper Mario, and Professor E. Gadd which...please do.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

yeah I agree. Heard that coconut mall was datamined. We should be getting that at some point. Who knows when though but it seems they know what they’ve gotta do to keep the game interesting

Wanna hear something better?
For an E3 2021 predictions livestream hosted by Source Gaming, Josh Cartwright brought up that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe related stuff was datamined in MKT. Perhaps the two games will be connected on some scale; e.g new skins, characters, vehicles, and stages will be carried over to 8 Deluxe such as all the High End outfits for already existing characters like Santa Mario or something!

 

[Theguy123]

Wanna hear something better?
For an E3 2021 predictions livestream hosted by Source Gaming, Josh Cartwright brought up that Mario Kart 8 Deluxe related stuff was datamined in MKT. Perhaps the two games will be connected on some scale; e.g new skins, characters, vehicles, and stages will be carried over to 8 Deluxe such as all the High End outfits for already existing characters like Santa Mario or something!

sounds great. I hope they go this root. Would be nice to get updates to Mario kart 8dx to keep it fresh. Especially if we’re not getting a console mario kart for ages.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

okay so maybe not pyra and myphra but I could see xenoblade 1 and xenoblade x being some of Nintendo’s high finishing games in the ballot and then with pyra and myphra becoming fan favourites later on they decide to combine that popularity with the popularity for xenoblade and xenoblade x and add pyra and myphra to smash.

maybe it’s far fetched but I could imagine Steve being the highest placed Microsoft character, sephiroth being square Enix’s highest placed fighter or 2nd highest and kazuya being the highest placed Namco rep or heihachi which could’ve pushed Nintendo to go for these reps.

Considering you told me yourself that Pyra/Mythra were viewed less than Min Min in Japan, I doubt the ballot had anything to do with a Xenoblade characters inclusion. Banjo & Kazooie were commonly requested on the ballot and their trailer has nearly 6 million views. Compare that to the 300k that Pyra/Mythra official trailer got.

Spoiler: Videos for reference

 

[SNEKeater]

New Metroid Dread trailer:

I kinda like the classic color scheme of the suit more and would really like to know why it suddenly turns blue.

The game keeps looking even better.

This trailer also confirmed dub in multiple languages beyond english and japanese. IIRC only Other M and Prime 3 had multiple dubs.