Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Gengar84]

I like the idea of a healing move but it is really hard to balance without making it either useless or broken. I wonder if a special that healed around 10% but took as long as Ike’s fully charged neutral special to use would be okay? Of course you wouldn’t get the healing unless the animation is fully completed.

 

[subterrestrial]

I like the idea of a healing move but it is really hard to balance without making it either useless or broken. I wonder if a special that healed around 10% but took as long as Ike’s fully charged neutral special to use would be okay? Of course you wouldn’t get the healing unless the animation is fully completed.

yea maybe something like wiifit’s solar shot or deep breathing that only heals when fully charged or done meditating

another way to balance healing in fighting games is to make it an offensive thing somehow, like wiifit can projectile camp and heal but you get much more reward using the speed and damage buff to approach

same thing with wario healing after landing his chomp and g&w healing 1/8 times after landing a hammer

 

[Sucumbio]

How about a grapple character like King or Zangief who heals some damage after they land certain grab combos! Nah... Hahaha

But seriously I don't think traditional grappling is possible in smash. What makes it so potent in Tekken or SF is the life bar aesthetic. In smash you are trying to to basically get a ring out every stock. They're too different at this fundamental level that the closest you'll get is what we already have... some character choices just get great conversions off a grab. And chain grabbing is a non starter for fairness reasons like nerfing Falco from brawl etc.

 

[Gengar84]

I just had an idea. What if Gengar had a Hypnosis/Dream Eater special? If it lands the attack on an awake opponent, it puts them to sleep like Jigglypuff’s sing. If Gengar lands it on a sleeping opponent, it drains health. Alternatively, it could be two different specials but then Dream Eater would be useless unless you used Hypnosis first.

 

[WeirdAlFan101]

I just had an idea. What if Gengar had a Hypnosis/Dream Eater special? If it lands the attack on an awake opponent, it puts them to sleep like Jigglypuff’s sing. If Gengar lands it on a sleeping opponent, it drains health. Alternatively, it could be two different specials but then Dream Eater would be useless unless you used Hypnosis first.

That sounds really sick, actually.

 

[subterrestrial]

pretty good idea tbh, gengar’s dream eater could even be a movement option if it’s portrayed the same way it was in the anime. Could give it sum utility for when everyone’s awake

 

[SharkLord]

In the Ys games, Adol (Or whoever else you're playing as) can heal by standing still, an effect enhanced by the series mainstay the Spirit Cloak. In the earlier games it's a massive boon, but by the time of Ys VIII and Ys IX your health bar is simply too big to just wait for it to fill and it's easier to rely on the abundance of healing items.

So yeah. I think it would be funny if Adol could wait three seconds without pressing anything or being attacked to have a minor autoheal effect. You're gonna get punched in the face before it takes effect and it's too small to have any payoff anyways, but it's just a neat little reference

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So about the vague leak. If it's true of the last character of the pass is a Cacpom rep, then I have 2 predictions of what this bonus zelda rep fighter could be. A
Bokoblin or a Guardian Scout

 

[Sucumbio]

Way back in the 80s there was an Atari game by Activision called Dragster. It was difficult especially for button mashing 5 year olds because it required some dexterity. Well ... Kinda. You had to tap up or down to shift gears and press the fire button to accelerate. The difficult part was the speed at which your engine would blow and game over. Your life bar was an rpm meter/temp guage and in first gear your engine blew after a second. So you had to tap it barely, then up stick, then press again a little longer, up stick etc through 4 gears.

The simulation was ok... You could take an easier approach and tap up to gear 4 then hold the accelerator but your time would not be the best.

Now imagine a healer, and it's kinda whatever who it is, but they'd have move similar in difficulty and it'd be totally fair. In "gear one" you can press B but if you hold it too long you'll immediately enter dizzy like holding shield too long. The "gear shift" could be actual inputs or maybe dependant on your damage percentage. Could also have a use limit like wonderwing...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

So about the vague leak. If it's true of the last character of the pass is a Cacpom rep, then I have 2 predictions of what this bonus zelda rep fighter could be. A
Bokoblin or a Guardian Scout

Doesn’t that leak say there’s two bonus fighters? Zelda rep and Waluigi?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

So about the vague leak. If it's true of the last character of the pass is a Cacpom rep, then I have 2 predictions of what this bonus zelda rep fighter could be. A
Bokoblin or a Guardian Scout

Generic Enemies gang
Piranha Plant be like

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Doesn’t that leak say there’s two bonus fighters? Zelda rep and Waluigi?

No. for Waluigi and maybe Jonesy, they're like how Smash 4 DLC was distributed.

 

[FreeFox]

Doesn’t that leak say there’s two bonus fighters? Zelda rep and Waluigi?

To be precise the leak says that there is 2 more characters coming on the season pass (most likely Phoenix and a Zelda rep). Then characters may start to pop up individually. And the first one will be Waluigi.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So about the vague leak. If it's true of the last character of the pass is a Cacpom rep, then I have 2 predictions of what this bonus zelda rep fighter could be. A
Bokoblin or a Guardian Scout

Lynel would have more moveset potential as a mook than either of those.

 

[Inferno7]

Adding a healer character for the sake of it wouldn't sit well with me. LoL for example has a similar issue, since many characters are so poorly designed (Akali, Irelia, Yasuo, Samira, Yuumi) that even the slightest buff can make them go out of control and viceversa, because their kits go against the game's very design.
As others have said, either the healing mechanic would end up being very circumstancial, useless, or straight up bonkers OP
Not like we don't already have a lot of characters that sorta heal, like with Wario's chomp, Wii fit's down B, and Hero's shenanigans

 

[DarthEnderX]

If we get anything as a bonus, I'm really only expecting it would be Echoes.

In previous games Sakurai even said clone characters got made at the end of development cause they were easy to make. I could see the same happening with Echoes.

 

[FreeFox]

If we get anything as a bonus, I'm really only expecting it would be Echoes.

In previous games Sakurai even said clone characters got made at the end of development cause they were easy to make. I could see the same happening with Echoes.

If its echoes, then I suppose Revali, he has a bow Impa might be the best bet.

 

[Gengar84]

If we get anything as a bonus, I'm really only expecting it would be Echoes.

In previous games Sakurai even said clone characters got made at the end of development cause they were easy to make. I could see the same happening with Echoes.

Yeah, I’m not expecting any bonus characters at all so I would be more than happy with echoes. I feel the idea was kind of underutilized in Ultimate and I expected at least a few more than we ended up with.

 

[SKX31]

I just had an idea. What if Gengar had a Hypnosis/Dream Eater special? If it lands the attack on an awake opponent, it puts them to sleep like Jigglypuff’s sing. If Gengar lands it on a sleeping opponent, it drains health. Alternatively, it could be two different specials but then Dream Eater would be useless unless you used Hypnosis first.

It looks good as a concept, you're essentially thinking Nosferatu but combined with Sing?

That said I have a couple points:

• One could just fuse the two moves really and have Dream Eater be a follow up. Sure, would be potentially janky, but would free up a precious Special move slot for something else, which may not be accurate to Pokemon but would give more needed versatility.
• Jigglypuff's potential reward off of Sing is extremely high - not just Rest, but also F-Smash and other attacks. It's partly why it's damn hard to land generally. While Gengar (or any other Hypnosis user) could have similarily high reward - see Nosferatu - it's worth noting that Nosferatu also has a -esque 3 max uses before the tome is discarded, with 30 seconds cooldown on the move after discardment.

Also, worth noting that Nosferatu is really difficult to land and far from as safe as say 's Chomp. It's active on Frames 15-18 (1/4 of a second), with the endlag lasting until frame 49 - half a second:

(And yes, the blue is invurnerability. Very late edit: Intangible to be more precise, which is a form of invurnerability)

While Sing's three pulses come at frames 27-36, 61-70 and 100-115 respectively - it ends on frame 149, illustrating how much of a commitment Sing is:

Hypnosis + Dream Eater could work along those lines... and hey, there's some precedent with Pokemon's PP system.

 

[Gengar84]

It looks good as a concept, you're essentially thinking Nosferatu but combined with Sing?

That said I have a couple points:

• One could just fuse the two moves really and have Dream Eater be a follow up. Sure, would be potentially janky, but would free up a precious Special move slot for something else, which may not be accurate to Pokemon but would give more needed versatility.
• Jigglypuff's potential reward off of Sing is extremely high - not just Rest, but also F-Smash and other attacks. It's partly why it's damn hard to land generally. While Gengar (or any other Hypnosis user) could have similarily high reward - see Nosferatu - it's worth noting that Nosferatu also has a -esque 3 max uses before the tome is discarded, with 30 seconds cooldown on the move after discardment.

Also, worth noting that Nosferatu is really difficult to land and far from as safe as say 's Chomp. It's active on Frames 15-18 (1/4 of a second), with the endlag lasting until frame 49 - half a second:

(And yes, the blue is invurnerability.)

While Sing's three pulses come at frames 27-36, 61-70 and 100-115 respectively - it ends on frame 149, illustrating how much of a commitment Sing is:

Hypnosis + Dream Eater could work along those lines... and hey, there's some precedent with Pokemon's PP system.

Yeah, that’s the basic idea. I think the best way to go about it is for Hypnosis to be the default and it changes to Dream Eater on a sleeping opponent. Hypnosis could have some end lag to make it more of a commitment to land. This could reference its low accuracy in Pokémon. Dream Eater would essentially be Nosferatu as you said.

 

[FreeFox]

Yeah, that’s the basic idea. I think the best way to go about it is for Hypnosis to be the default and it changes to Dream Eater on a sleeping opponent. Hypnosis could have some end lag to make it more of a commitment to land. This could reference its low accuracy in Pokémon. Dream Eater would essentially be Nosferatu as you said.

If Gengar ever came, I would demand that its ability cursed body be rerpesented in some manner. Like a 1 in 4 chance of momentaritly blocking specials if gengar was hit or something similar to that.

 

[Gengar84]

If Gengar ever came, I would demand that its ability cursed body be rerpesented in some manner. Like a 1 in 4 chance of momentaritly blocking specials if gengar was hit or something similar to that.

That would be really cool but it would be very difficult to make it not broken in Smash. Disabling specials can be extremely crippling to many characters, especially if that includes their up special. I’m not sure the best way to reference Cursed Body in a way that’s both fun and balanced.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Lynel would have more moveset potential as a mook than either of those.

THANK YOU! I have been suggesting Lynel for a long time now. It wouldn't be my ideal choice for Zelda/Hyrule characterization- I'd easily choose an Impa Echo and all 4 Champions. But as that isn't likely to happen- short of perhaps an Ultimate Deluxe wherein he rectifies the poor Zelda roster and adds each of the Champions--- then Lynel is maybe all I see happening.

 

[Gengar84]

You know who the perfect characters to finish off Smash Ultimate are that I’ve never seen discussed?

The original Super Smash brothers!

 

[pupNapoleon]

If its echoes, then I suppose Revali, he has a bow Impa might be the best bet.

I'd think Octoling first.
I also think DK would be near top of the line- whether it be DK Jr for DK, Dixie for Diddy.... or, the God Awful idea of Funky (jitters) for ...memes.
I do think it is crazy we don't have Impa, but overall, it would not must assist Zelda feeling better represented- sure, another popular character, but the overall feel would still poorly represent the games.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Pokemon Snap getting new update.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Pokemon Snap getting new update.

That looks like a pretty sizable update- New Areas, a Shrinking Mode, and... I'm assuming new levels of Pokemon interaction (I cannot quite tell as I'm only a few hours into the game and it requires a decent amount of level up grinding).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pokemon Snap getting new update.

Bah. I already returned it to Gamefly.

That looks like a pretty sizable update- New Areas, a Shrinking Mode, and...

Eh, not really. The "new areas" and shrinking mode just seem like new routes through the existing levels. And I didn't see any new Pokemon.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The only time I've seen healing come across as interesting in a fighting game was BBTag which if I'm not mistaken had Ragna heal off of every hit he landed, the drawback being Ragna had a very small health bar meaning it wouldn't amount to much, don't know how it was received in the game itself but had Sol not been competition I'd think the idea would work somewhat reasonably, though it might need to be relegated to his Install or something

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Bah. I already returned it to Gamefly.


Eh, not really. The "new areas" and shrinking mode just seem like new routes through the existing levels. And I didn't see any new Pokemon.

There were several new Pokemon and the update comes with two new levels. A river and a poison swamp.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There were several new Pokemon and the update comes with two new levels. A river and a poison swamp.

Ah. Good.

I'll probably wait until they say they aren't doing any more updates to the game, then rent it again to play all the new stuff at once.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Considering the popularity with female Nintendo characters, I'd be legitimately curious on how well a "Super Bash Sisters" would do.

If it was a spin-off with more experimental mechanics, I would be legitimately interested.

(And yes, the blue is invurnerability.)

Wat? It's invincible? Wat?

 

[Sucumbio]

WTF WHY DOES GOLDLEWIS' j.63214H STAGE SPIKE pic.twitter.com/X0Cb0Dz3j6

— Kira (@MidnightKira_) July 28, 2021

Ha! ggs.

But yeah, I'd be down with a guilty gear rep.

 

[subterrestrial]

That would be really cool but it would be very difficult to make it not broken in Smash. Disabling specials can be extremely crippling to many characters, especially if that includes their up special. I’m not sure the best way to reference Cursed Body in a way that’s both fun and balanced.

Cursed Body could be represented in a way thru Disable as a special move. it could be like mewtwo's down-b; but canon. Temporaily disabling their last used move (even normals and grabs) for like 5-15 seconds, anything longer than 8 sec might be op tho. It could even be balanced by having the same requirements as mew2's (grounded targets only, requires eye contact, short range)

ngl Cursed Body passive sounds stupid broken on paper unless its like a 5% or lower chance of activating. although it could be balanced by gengar being a lightweight or having bad cqc or something

or...just give him levitate

 

[SKX31]

Wat? It's invincible? Wat?

I was also confused at first and followed the ultimateframedata note under Nosferatu, which listed it as invurnerable. It's more properly speaking intangible - the main difference between intangibility and invincibility is after all that attacks will phaze through intangible frames (like it does with Nosferatu), while with invincibility attacks will "connect" but will be entirely blocked.

Ha! ggs.

But yeah, I'd be down with a guilty gear rep.

In this Behemoth Typhoon, Goldlewis steals Sol's Smash invite and smacks Mario in the face with a coffin containing an alien.



Edit: His victory screen should consist of the losers being abducted by aliens while they're clapping, and he's getting (prank)calls:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I was also confused at first and followed the ultimateframedata note under Nosferatu, which listed it as invurnerable. It's more properly speaking intangible - the main difference between intangibility and invincibility is after all that attacks will phaze through intangible frames (like it does with Nosferatu), while with invincibility attacks will "connect" but will be entirely blocked.

I've had Kazuya's hitboxes explained so I know quite a bit about intangibility. lol. I just used the term I thought you meant.

Also wat? It's intangible? Wat?

Ha! ggs.

But yeah, I'd be down with a guilty gear rep.

In this Behemoth Typhoon: Goldlewis spikes the opponent. If you get hit by it, you die.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So here is a question for ya.

If Pokemon representation were to allow Pokemon spin off music, but only from three series, which three would you pick?

 

[Perkilator]

So here is a question for ya.

If Pokemon representation were to allow Pokemon spin off music, but only from three series, which three would you pick?

1. Mystery Dungeon
2. Ranger
3. Pokken Tournament

 

[pupNapoleon]

So here is a question for ya.

If Pokemon representation were to allow Pokemon spin off music, but only from three series, which three would you pick?

Mystery Dungeon, Rangers, Pinball.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

If you answer Ranger to Swamp Sensei's question, you're automatically on god tier
Gimme that Altru Tower theme remix