Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Ivander]

This is the list of newcomers that I would like to see in future games of the Super Smash Bros. series. Although I would like Unicycle from a video game called Uniracers to come in a Super Smash Bros. game, I can not count on it because PIXAR sued for this game. Here is the list of other video game characters:

Spoiler: List of newcomers

Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo series)
Captain Rainbow (Captain Rainbow)
Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
Black Shadow (F-Zero series)
Medusa (Kid Icarus series)
Aeron (Pandora's Tower)
Zael (The Last Story)
Euden (Dragalia Lost)
Zethia (Dragalia Lost)
Earthworm Jim (Earthworm Jim series)
Rayman (Rayman seiries)
Tin Star (Tin Star)
Liu Kang (Mortal Kombat series)
Scorpion (Mortal Kombat series)
Haohmaru (Samurai Shodown series)
Mach Rider (Mach Rider)
Jin Kazama (Tekken series)
Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem)
John Raimi (Geist)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden series)
Kevin (Karkurenbo Battle Monster Tactics)
Queen Azarel (Warlocked)
Chief Zog (Warlocked)
Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot series)
Spyro the Dragon (Spyro the Dragon series)
Abe (Oddworld series)
Stranger (Oddworld series)
Fighter Hayabusa (Pro Wrestling)
Conker (Conker series)
Professor Hershel Layton (Professor Layton series)
Siegfried Schtauffen (Soulcalibur series)
Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Cross (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Edward Carnby (Alone in the Dark series)
Adol Christin (Ys series)
Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear series)
Ragna the Bloodedge (BlazBlue series)
Gex (Gex series)
Protagonist (Glory of Heracles)
Heracles (Glory of Heracles)
Protagonist (Famicom Detective Club)
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
Reiji Arisu (Namco × Capcom, Project X Zone series)
Laboman (Labo)
Ring Fit Trainee (Ring Fit Adventure)
Dillon (Dillon series)
Dante (Devil May Cry series)
Spring Man (ARMS)
Yooka-Laylee (Yooka-Laylee series)
Agumon (Digimon series)
Henry Fleming (Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.)
Solaire of Astora (Dark Souls)
Kratos (God of War)
Ivan (Devil's Third)
Aisya (ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat)
Chrono (Chrono series)
Miriam (Bloodstained series)
Doomguy (Doom series)
Master Chief (Halo series)
Mike Jones (StarTropics series)
Meowth (Pokémon series)
Saki Amamiya (Sin and Punishment: Successor of the Earth)
Isaac (Golden Sun series)
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger (Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series)
Cuphead (Cuphead)
Andy (Advance Wars series)
Mr. Stevenson (Gumshoe)
Akira Howard (Astral Chain)

Well, we doing this dance number again?

Spoiler: My list of wanted newcomers for future games

1st Party Fighters:

1. Shy Guy - Mario
2. Pauline - Mario
3. Paper Mario - Paper Mario
4. Fawful - Mario & Luigi
5. Geno - Super Mario RPG
6. Dixie Kong - Donkey Kong Country
7. Funky Kong - Donkey Kong Country
8. Lynel - Legend of Zelda
9. Impa - Legend of Zelda
10. Tetra - Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
11. Vaati - Legend of Zelda: Four Swords/Minish Cap
12. Hilda - Legend of Zelda: Link Between Worlds
13. Daruk - Legend of Zelda: BotW
14. Mipha - Legend of Zelda: BotW
15. Revali - Legend of Zelda: BotW
16. Urbosa - Legend of Zelda: BotW
17. Dark Matter - Kirby
18. Bandana Dee - Kirby
19. Magalor - Kirby
20. Krystal - Star Fox
21. Andross - Star Fox
22. Eevee - Pokemon Red & Blue/Green
23. Gengar - Pokemon R&B
24. Typlosion - Pokemon Gold & Silver
25. Feraligator - Pokemon G&S
26. Scizor - Pokemon G&S
27. Tyranitar - Pokemon G&S
28. Blaziken - Pokemon Ruby & Sapphire
29. Garchomp - Pokemon Diamond & Pearl
30. Samurott - Pokemon Black & White
31. Zoroark - Pokemon B&W
32. Aegislash - Pokemon X&Y
33. Decidueye - Pokemon Sun & Moon
34. Zacian - Pokemon Sword & Shield
35. Paula - Earthbound
36. Porky - Earthbound
37. Kumatora - Mother 3
38. Masked Man - Mother 3
39. Samurai Goroh - F-Zero
40. Anna - Fire Emblem
41. Medeus - Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon
42. Lyndis - Fire Emblem Blazing Sword
43. Hector - Fire Emblem Blazing Sword
44. Black Knight - Fire Emblem Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn
45. Claude - Fire Emblem Three Houses
46. Kiran - Fire Emblem Heroes
47. Fjorm - Fire Emblem Heroes
48. Reginn - Fire Emblem Heroes
49. Medusa - Kid Icarus
50. Viridi - Kid Icarus Uprising
51. Hades - Kid Icarus Uprising
52. Captain Syrup - Wario Land
53. Ashley - WarioWare
54. Alph - Pikmin 3
55. Bald Bull - Punch Out!
56. Fiora - Xenoblade Chronicles
57. Melia Antiqua - Xenoblade Chronicles
58. Elma - Xenoblade Chronicles X
59. Malos - Xenoblade Chronicles 2
60. Octoling - Splatoon 2
61. Ninjara - ARMS
62. Takamaru - Mysterious Murasame Castle
63. Sami - Advance Wars
64. Ray 01/Ray Series - Custom Robo
65. Saki Amamiya - Sin & Punishment
66. Isaac - Golden Sun
67. Chibi Robo
68. Dillon - Dillon's Rolling Western

3rd Party Fighters:

1. Raiden - Metal Gear Solid 2/4/Rising
2. Alucard - Castlevania 3/Symphony of the Night
3. Maria Renard - Castlevania Rondo of Blood/Symphony of the Night
4. Soma Cruz - Castlevania Aria/Dawn of Sorrow
5. Julius Belmont - Castlevania Aria/Dawn of Sorrow
6. Shanoa - Castlevania Order of Ecclesia
7. Bill Rizer - Contra
8. Lance Bean - Contra
9. Bomberman
10. Goemon - Mystical Ninja/Ganbare Goemon
11. Pyramid Head - Silent Hill 2
12. Dr. Eggman - Sonic the Hedgehog
13. Tails - Sonic the Hedgehog 2
14. Knuckles - Sonic the Hedgehog 3
15. Shadow - Sonic Adventure 2
16. Blaze - Sonic Rush
17. Alis Landale - Phantasy Star
18. Kireek - Phantasy Star Online
19. The Guardian - Phantasy Star Online 2
20. Proto Man - Mega Man
21. Roll - Mega Man
22. Bass - Mega Man
23. Dr. Wily - Mega Man
24. Zero - Mega Man X
25. Megaman.exe - Megaman Battle Network
26. Chun-Li - Street Fighter 2
27. Monster Hunter
28. Leon Kennedy - Resident Evil 2/4
29. Dante - Devil May Cry
30. Amaterasu - Okami
31. Arthur - Ghosts'n Goblins
32. Lloyd Irving - Tales of Symphonia
33. Yuri Lowell - Tales of Vesperia
34. Nightmare - Soulcalibur
35. KOS-MOS - Xenosaga
36. Chosen Undead - Dark Souls
37. Onion Knight - Final Fantasy 3
38. Cecil - Final Fantasy 4
39. Bartz - Final Fantasy 5
40. Terra - Final Fantasy 6
41. Tidus - Final Fantasy X
42. Yuna - Final Fantasy X
43. Sora - Kingdom Hearts
44. Neku Sakuraba - The World Ends with You
45. Master Chief - Halo
46. Cuphead
47. Rayman
48. Adol Cristin - Ys
49. Professor Layton
50. Saber - Fate/Stay Night
51. Shovel Knight
52. Shantae
53. Miriam - Bloodstained Ritual of the Night
54. Rachet & Clank
55. Hunter - Bloodborne
56. Wander - Shadow of the Colossus

No hope-ers:

1. Ryu - Breath of Fire
2. Nina - Breath of Fire
3. Allen - Culdcept Revolt
4. Ramza Beoulve - Final Fantasy Tactics
5. Ashley Riot - Vagrant Story
6. Django - Boktai
7. Tir McDohl - Suikoden
8. Konami Man - Wai Wai World
9. Gunstar Red - Gunstar Heroes
10. Undead Hero - Guardian Heroes
11. Max - Shining Force
12. Joe Musashi - Shinobi
13. Zack & Wiki
14. Captain Commando
15. Regina - Dino Crisis
16. G-Red - Gotcha Force
17. Rick Taylor - Splatterhouse
18. Hawkeye - Trials of Mana
19. Risez - Trials of Mana
20. Aya Brea - Parasite Eve
21. Rue - Threads of Fate
22. Mint - Threads of Fate
23. Musashi - Brave Fencer Musashi
24. Sly Cooper
25. Dart Feld - Legend of Dragoon
26. Vahn - Legend of Legaia
27. Jak & Daxter
28. Toan - Dark Cloud

Mii Costumes:

1. Any character above
2. Wonder Red - The Wonderful 101
3. Wonder Blue - The Wonderful 101
4. Shovel Knight
5. Federation Force Soldier - Metroid Prime: Federation Force
6. Valkyrie - Legend of Valkyrie
7. Mappy
8. Skyworld Fighter - Kid Icarus Uprising
9. Darknut - Legend of Zelda
10. Phantom - Legend of Zelda Phantom Hourglass
11. Embla Soldier - Fire Emblem Heroes
12. Pigmask - Mother 3
13. Axe Armor - Castlevania
14. Mumbo Jumbo - Banjo-Kazooie
15. Primid - Smash Bros. Brawl

Well, there's my list.

 

[Ridrool64]

The only two true predictions I have are as follows:

#1: It will be two characters that we write off for something that contemporarily makes sense, but in hindsight will look like a ridiculous reason to dismiss a character. It will be celebrated as a busted "fan rule" as if the fans say "you must be this X to be a good pick for Smash", even though we had no reason to expect the trend not to continue.

#2: They will have nothing in common besides minute details with the previous four characters. Console of origin, year of origin are stuff that don't matter, but demographic appeal, franchise, possibly owning company for third parties, possibly genre outside of platformer and RPG, and other stuff like that probably do matter. Inevitably, we'll try to find a way to shoehorn the next two characters into our own pre-existing theories about the final character and the next set of newcomers, be it in Volume 3 or the next console's Smash game.

Aside from that, it could be most things.

Kazuya fits 1, in that we wrote him off because of the Heihachi Mii Costume. Not just because we thought Tekken was disconfirmed, but also because we thought Heihachi had priority over all the other Tekken reps due to being the one acknowledged first. I wonder if characters like Frisk or Yuri Lowell would benefit from this? As well as 2. Shares a genre with Min Min and has inputs/autoturn like the shotos and Terry (and I guess Rage is like Aura) but otherwise thematically and mechanically he's really nothing like anybody on the roster already, let alone Volume 2.

I still stand by this statement, by the way, for the last character. Written off for something that makes sense for now but when they come out will look like desperate haters trying to find any argument against their inevitable inclusion, and has basically no similarities to anybody who is currently in Volume 2.

First party? Third party? Joint ownership? Male? Female? Ambiguous or otherwise neither male nor female? Hero? Villain? Neutral? JRPG? Platformer? Fighting game? None of the above genres? From the 80's? 90's? 2K? New 10's? This decade? Upcoming? 70's or older (I doubt it but hey there are candidates)? From a repped series? From an unrepped series on the roster? From an unrepped series entirely (none of the following: stage, AT, music, Spirit, boss, cameo)? From a huge series? From a decently prominent one? From a lesser known one? From an outright niche one? Voiced? Voiceless? Predominantly North American support? Japanese support? PAL support? From an entirely new market like China or Brazil?

^ None of the above matter, at least necessarily, IMO. The last character could be any of these even if I personally doubt some of them like huge series, from 70's or older or voiceless.

The only things that do, are that the character does not have significant overlap with who this would appeal to, is not from a series that got a newcomer within the same batch of characters (if the first two were broken, that would result in diminishing returns), they have a unique moveset that fits within Smash, if they're a first party that their series has a future (there are exceptions, but all of them were chosen as shock picks, and all of them are base game), and if they are a third party that their owning company would permit the use of the character and any creative liberties necessary to make them work in a Smash environment. And even then I don't consider these hard and fast rules but rather are my main guidelines when it comes to thinking of newcomers. Oh and the chances that the character comes from a video game or was created primarily for gaming and not something like anime/cartoons, if not straight up 100% are so close that they might as well be. But that goes without saying.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

imagine if they chose characters based on recognizability...

maybe trevor phillips would be in by now

no, no.. he's got a point

 

[Inferno7]

I think that it's possible that CP11 comes from a company without a fighter.

My bet would be Ubisoft, since they have been in the franchise since Sm4sh through Rayman (spirits and trophy). He in particular would fit 2nd chance theory since he couldn't get in both games and is a long-standing request, only hurdles I see are:
-Assassin's Creed has sold way better (150+ million copies iirc) so Nintendo/Ubi could want to profit from that by attracting a new audience to the game.

-Rayman himself has been getting shafted further and further by the Rabbids, be it in merchandise or the games themselves

-Support isn't as strong as before I imagine

-Min Min may or may not cover his gimmick (extendable limbs)

-Ubisoft is western-centric

 

[Aerospherology]

I don’t think it matters at this point

Yes, it does. New dummy fighter slots being added means there's further fighters planned beyond CP11.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes, it does. New dummy fighter slots being added means there's further fighters planned beyond CP11.

That turned out to be a hoax from someone who isn't even a dataminer.

 

[Aerospherology]

That turned out to be a hoax from someone who isn't even a dataminer.

No, it wasn't a hoax.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Vet_093/status/1412223122959486978

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That turned out to be a hoax from someone who isn't even a dataminer.

It was originally discovered by the guy who discovered Brave iirc, back in 2019. He WAS a legit dataminer.

…unfortunately he was also a (trigger warning) sex offender

 

[Knight Dude]

hear me out
View attachment 322265

Actually a good choice. Let's GO!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think that it's possible that CP11 comes from a company without a fighter.

Blah blah blah Sgt. Cortez

Blah blah blah Time to Split!

Sgt. Cortez just seems so close! TimeSplitters being revived at the same time as both Fighters Passes is all the hope I need to think he's coming.

 

[GoodGrief741]

No, it wasn't a hoax
https://mobile.twitter.com/Vet_093/status/1412223122959486978

It was originally discovered by the guy who discovered Brave iirc, back in 2019. He WAS a legit dataminer.

…unfortunately he was also a (trigger warning) sex offender

It's not what I was thinking about then, but still

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Regarding the Sonic comment:

I don't see another character but I can see the case for one. It is kind of odd that Final Fantasy 7 (just one game in the series) has 2 unique reps but a franchise like Sonic only has one.

However, I think a lot of it has to do with the third-party companies and the situation. I think Square-Enix really wanted Sephiroth in Smash Ultimate and why would Sakurai say no to Sephiroth? To some, it seems like we could have gotten another character from Square's massive IP list such as Chrono, Lora Croft, or Sora but the talks probably don't work like that. Square wanted more FF7 representation to support the release of the Port and Nintendo probably also agreed. They were not looking at represented other IP in this instance.

There is probably a similar situation with Sega. Sega may feel that the Sonic representation is already strong enough. They got 2 stages, 2 AT, multiple spirits, etc. Sega may want other IP such as Bayonetta and Persona to be represented. This was why it was pushed in this direction.

As stated, it seems kind of odd to us with Sonic being a bigger franchise than any of the other third-party IP other than perhaps Minecraft and maybe Pacman (you can't really judge Pacman sales by games as Pacman was primarily an Arcade Franchise. Heck, Street Fighter also fits this bill).

Technically speaking, Final Fantasy is actually a bigger series game sales wise compared to Sonic. Square Enix's own corporate documentation indicates that Final Fantasy has sold 159 million units as a franchise compared to Sonic's 140 million plus that is tallied up on Wikipedia. They're both massive franchises in their own right mind you, but it makes a lot of sense to revisit Final Fantasy for another character given that Final Fantasy had almost nothing in the game prior to Sephiroth's inclusion.

You can argue the same for third parties, and Sephiroth alone is a dead giveaway of this. Sure, there's a good amount of third party franchises to add still, but how many of them would Nintendo actually be interested in? They preferred to dip FF7 again and go back to the drawing board on Tekken/double dip Namco than go anywhere like Activision or Arc Sys or what have you, and based on the past the only capcom franchises they would have cared to represent are now represented with MH and Resident Evil. Sega's in a very similar boat, because outside of Sonic, there aren't any decently sized franchises to reasonably pick that wouldn't just be "we'd rather actually do our own IP instead of this", and even as far as Sonic goes... you've got Sonic. Any other Sonic character is quite a bit smaller of a pick than Sephiroth was, as Sephiroth is such an iconic villain to the point where 2000s gamefaqs was basically all about him.

We're running out of reasonable third party picks at possibly an even faster rate than 1st party, especially with all the miis being added.

This just simply isn't true if we're being honest. Sephiroth doesn't give anything away because Final Fantasy was a massive franchise as I said in my other response in this same post and Final Fantasy had nothing. If Sonic had 2 songs and one stage to its name, there'd be a 100% valid outcry for more considering there's 20 songs, 2 stages, and 2 Assist Trophies to Sonic's name and there's still an outcry. Sephiroth expanded upon the most underrepresented series in Smash and like Sakurai said, is one of gaming's most iconic villains and is basically a mascot to FF and Square Enix alongside Cloud for defining a ton of their work.

As for franchises, Nintendo has an interest in any third party franchise on their machine/crossing over with big names in Smash for the publicity. I mean, what interest did Nintendo have in Persona technically with your own point? A series that has two spin-offs to its name on Nintendo consoles that people care relatively little about compared to the mainline entries (If you're going to seriously argue Persona Q2 and Strikers were these big deals Nintendo needed to promote, then even more so will every third party game on Switch drive home a reason to be in Smash). You could argue the same for SNK and Terry that they didn't have a ton of conventional reason to push them either, but they included Terry in Smash.

The absence of certain franchises or other deals with gaming companies is not inherently a condemnation of those franchises for Smash or some proof that Nintendo isn't interested. We have no idea how much stuff behind the scenes did or did not happen for X, Y, and Z reasons. Monster Hunter could have been passed on by Nintendo, or maybe the Monster Hunter team at Capcom didn't want a playable Monster Hunter in a crossover. Maybe they avoided Activision Blizzard, or maybe they just didn't prioritize Crash in time for Smash Ultimate so they didn't work on negotiating. Maybe they spent all of their budget licensing Minecraft content, Sephiroth, and Tekken for Pass 2? Etc. We aren't really running out of third party picks at some crazy rate. Are we including a lot of super impressive, massively successful Japanese IPs? Absolutely, and if you only look on the Japanese side a lot of big stuff is in the game... But there's also an almost completely untapped Western IP market and there's still a lot of very successful Japanese IPs that are missing too. Going back to Tekken sounds like you're trying to turn that into a negative, but Tekken is the biggest 3D Fighting game in the world that's actually sold more copies than Street Fighter in terms of home console releases, so that's more just making an exciting crossover a reality.

As for Sega, Eggman and Tails are probably every bit as recognizable as like Sephiroth and are some very well known characters. Puyo Puyo is one of the highest selling IPs currently not in Smash and has been steadily growing as an IP in the West for years. Yakuza has come to basically define Sega in the past decade and could excite a ton of people.

I just don't think your conclusion is true at all and there's certainly a solid group of third party crossovers that Nintendo would be interested and invested that would have less "reaching" than first parties for hype inclusions that excite people (That's not to say first parties are all around less hype, mind you, just that you do have to go to some more niche options and some deeper cuts relative to crossing over with like Skyrim, Crash, Dark Souls, etc. that Nintendo has taken a very active role in either bringing to Switch or promoting in the past few years).

I made a big-ass list of first party characters I want and somehow I forgot those two juggernauts. Feeling like a dumbass rn

For shame lol. The two franchises that absolutely should have been here if we had a Pass 3 (at least Ring Fit, I guess Astral Chain falls a little more niche, but damn if it wouldn't be fantastic in Smash).

 

[SneakyLink]

I would like to remind everyone to check tweets to ensure the language is good. If there’s a word that could be caught by the censor, try linking instead of embedding.

Blah blah blah Sgt. Cortez

Blah blah blah Time to Split!

View attachment 322307

Sgt. Cortez just seems so close! TimeSplitters being revived at the same time as both Fighters Passes is all the hope I need to think he's coming.

I have fond memories of the second and third games and I think he’d be hype.
Even if he’s not in now, the future has never looked more perfect for Cortez in Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's not what I was thinking about then, but still

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The guy I was originally referring to went by Mizumi_ btw

when he was exposed as the creep he is he nuked his online presence and rightfully so

side note why’s this dude here keep spelling cache as caché?

 

[TriggerX]

Regarding the Sonic comment:

I don't see another character but I can see the case for one. It is kind of odd that Final Fantasy 7 (just one game in the series) has 2 unique reps but a franchise like Sonic only has one.

However, I think a lot of it has to do with the third-party companies and the situation. I think Square-Enix really wanted Sephiroth in Smash Ultimate and why would Sakurai say no to Sephiroth? To some, it seems like we could have gotten another character from Square's massive IP list such as Chrono, Lora Croft, or Sora but the talks probably don't work like that. Square wanted more FF7 representation to support the release of the Port and Nintendo probably also agreed. They were not looking at represented other IP in this instance.

There is probably a similar situation with Sega. Sega may feel that the Sonic representation is already strong enough. They got 2 stages, 2 AT, multiple spirits, etc. Sega may want other IP such as Bayonetta and Persona to be represented. This was why it was pushed in this direction.

As stated, it seems kind of odd to us with Sonic being a bigger franchise than any of the other third-party IP other than perhaps Minecraft and maybe Pacman (you can't really judge Pacman sales by games as Pacman was primarily an Arcade Franchise. Heck, Street Fighter also fits this bill).

I can’t say Sonic isn’t popular. However it seems he only gets by on being easily recognized, he’s truly a video game icon.
Unfortunately he has lost a lot of appeal over the years since they still haven’t quite found what truly works for him as far as 3D goes.
Sure people wanted Shadow, but even that was largely due to the fact that Nintendo opened their mouths about echo characters. Shadow only fit the bill perfectly for that new concept in the game.
Overall the majority seems to be happy with just Sonic in the roster.


I’m thinking the last character is gonna be somewhat big. Although I don’t put it past nintendo, It will be odd that they would sideline a character like Dante for an underwhelming character.
My hope is that the last character is third party.
Probably Tracer or Master Chief. Although I would appreciate Sora more.
Tracer would have an interesting time related gimick I’m sure. Over watch 2 will probably be pretty big going forward

 

[NessAtc.]

I just don't think your conclusion is true at all and there's certainly a solid group of third party crossovers that Nintendo would be interested and invested that would have less "reaching" than first parties for hype inclusions that excite people (That's not to say first parties are all around less hype, mind you, just that you do have to go to some more niche options and some deeper cuts relative to crossing over with like Skyrim, Crash, Dark Souls, etc. that Nintendo has taken a very active role in either bringing to Switch or promoting in the past few years).

How many of those would Nintendo go after in the context of 2018/2019 though? That's the point I'm driving. At that time, in Sephiroth's case, FF7 Remake was in full swing development-wise, Tekken 7 was only a couple years old, etc. Just because now there's stuff Nintendo could be interested in does not mean they were interested 2-3 years ago at all.

FF being a megalith also proves my point; instead of going for "expanding the crossover" like you're implying, they just added more FF content.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The guy I was originally referring to went by Mizumi_ btw

when he was exposed as the creep he is he nuked his online presence and rightfully so

side note why’s this dude here keep spelling cache as caché?

That's the original spelling. It's a French loanword.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Imagine thinking we are getting more fighters after Sakurai said we arent getting more fighters

 

[DittoInDisguise]

I can’t say Sonic isn’t popular. However it seems he only gets by on being easily recognized, he’s truly a video game icon.
Unfortunately he has lost a lot of appeal over the years since they still haven’t quite found what truly works for him as far as 3D goes.
Sure people wanted Shadow, but even that was largely due to the fact that Nintendo opened their mouths about echo characters. Shadow only fit the bill perfectly for that new concept in the game.
Overall the majority seems to be happy with just Sonic in the roster.


I’m thinking the last character is gonna be somewhat big. Although I don’t put it past nintendo, It will be odd that they would sideline a character like Dante for an underwhelming character.
My hope is that the last character is third party.
Probably Tracer or Master Chief. Although I would appreciate Sora more.
Tracer would have an interesting time related gimick I’m sure. Over watch 2 will probably be pretty big going forward

I don't think it would be odd to end with an underwhelming fighter. They ended smash 4 dlc and fp1 with first parties (and bayo) which all had recent releases and were follow ups to big third parties. It would be more odd if they pulled out a 3rd party, since there is less benefit to doing so at the end of the dlc lifecycle.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I mean ofc it's not guaranteed but seeing Inferno7 talk about Assassin's Creed made me think how cool it'd be for CP11 to be from a AAA game/franchise.

 

[toonito]

Fighters I want to see in Smash organized by series

Spoiler: Future Fighter Wishlist

Current Series
Waluigi, Toad, Paper Mario, Kamek
Impa, Ghirahim (SSBU AT promotion), Toon Ganondorf
Bandana Waddle Dee
Gym Leader Bea (trainer who fights alongside her Pokemon unlike PT), Raichu (on the condition Pichu is in the game)
Raiden
Tails
Zero (SSBU AT promotion), Protoman or Roll (echo), X (swap of classic Megaman)
Elma
Chun-Li, Guile (SSBU AT promotion), Elena (no dice due to attire), M. Bison
Tifa, Vivi, Noctis, Zack (echo)
Geese Howard, Rock Howard
Yoshimitsu

New Series
Sora, Zion (echo)
PaRappa the Rapper
Sol Badguy
Jill Valentine
Fulgore
Axel Stone
Scorpion
Nakoruru
Nightmare (SC)
Ezio Auditore
Master Chief
Monster Hunter
Ray MK II
Lara Croft
Ryu Hayabusa
Phoenix Wright
Doom Slayer
Dante
Professor Layton
Bomberman
CJ (GTA)
Crash Bandicoot
Bill Rizer
Sarah Kerrigan
Arle Nadja
Ahri
Morrigan
Kratos

Mii Costumes (Deluxe)
Hollow Knight (Swordfighter)
Viewtiful Joe (Brawler)
King (Tekken, Brawler)
Geno (Gunner)

 

[DarthEnderX]

I made a big-ass list of first party characters I want and somehow I forgot those two juggernauts. Feeling like a dumbass rn

Seems to suggest that maybe you don't actually "want" all the characters on your list. You're just naming all the characters you can think of...

Imagine thinking we are getting more fighters after Sakurai said we arent getting more fighters

Sakurai thinks Smash 3DS is Smash 4 and Smash WiiU is Smash 5. He can't be trusted.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Imagine thinking we are getting more fighters after Sakurai said we arent getting more fighters

IF that was the case it probably wouldn’t be right away. We’d wait at least 6 months

 

[Momotsuki]

It has been said by Mr. Big Guy multiple times, verbatim - not even in a vague, "no comment"-esque manner, but straight-up stated - that there are no fighters after FP11. Why are we still doing this?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

How many of those would Nintendo go after in the context of 2018/2019 though? That's the point I'm driving. At that time, in Sephiroth's case, FF7 Remake was in full swing development-wise, Tekken 7 was only a couple years old, etc. Just because now there's stuff Nintendo could be interested in does not mean they were interested 2-3 years ago at all.

FF being a megalith also proves my point; instead of going for "expanding the crossover" like you're implying, they just added more FF content.

In the 2018-2019 context and before, here's a few options for third party franchises Nintendo might have an interest:

• Crash - N'Sane Trilogy was announced in the same Direct as Smash and immediately made a splash turning Crash into a common name for Smash. The game then went on to become the best selling third party game on the Switch that isn't Mario + Rabbids (N'Sane Trilogy - June 2018)
• Rabbids/Rayman - Mario + Rabbids was one of the first Switch titles overall and Rayman Legends was a big title on Wii U. Ubisoft works extremely closely to Nintendo and has content in Smash. (August 2017 for M+R, Rayman Legends Septemeber 2017)
• Dark Souls - The series got a premiere position in a Nintendo Direct in early 2018 and Solaire was one of the few third party Amiibo in existence (Released October 2018, announced January 2018)
• Monster Hunter - Nintendo has had a massive interest in this franchise for a decade now and we know they paid for Rise to be a Switch exclusive a couple years back as it is now (Generations Ultimate released on Switch in August 2018, 8 years after Monster Hunter Tri moved MH to Nintendo consoles).
• Diablo - An underrated pick for Smash and not terribly likely IMO, but they literally worked closely with Activision Blizzard and included Switch exclusive content with Ganondorf in the game (Switch Release - November 2018)
• Elder Scrolls/Skyrim - Not happening now but Nintendo worked super closely with Bethesda to make the Switch port happen and published the physical release (November 2017 release)
• Doom - A huge release that marked just how much the Switch could actually do with the right development team. Also probably not happening unfortunately for a bunch of different factors, but still a compelling argument can be made for Doom too (November 2017 release).
• Assassin's Creed - Ubisoft also supported the Wii U super heavily with a couple of Assassin's Creed releases and it's one of the biggest franchises in the world. It didn't come to Switch until December 2019, but there's plenty of reason for Nintendo to be interested in it when it's a franchise that has outsold every third party in Smash except for Final Fantasy and Minecraft.
• Ninja Gaiden - Nintendo has worked closely with Koei Tecmo for the past decade and the Wii U was the debut of the "superior" version of Ninja Gaiden 3 (still maligned mind you as a release, but Razor's Edge got the game to a "just fine" status from bad). There's as much an argument for this series on that basis as anyone else like your Mega Man and Castlevania's of the world that didn't have a ton of recent presence, but were classic characters from the NES era.

This is not an exhaustive or complete list, it's just to point out how much Nintendo could have had an interest in during that time frame with some big and obvious examples. With Kazuya proving Mii Costumes from the franchise don't mean that much, basically all of these options sans a Rabbid itself and Skyrim are "on the table" so to speak even now.

And you can't ignore the fact that Final Fantasy had basically nothing in the crossover or Sephiroth's incredibly recognizable status as a villain in gaming to try and force the point. Final Fantasy started with an incredibly small amount of content and did not get the chance to be expanded upon in base game like Street Fighter did. It was the single biggest third party series in Smash at the time of its inclusion (in terms of games sold) and it had a tiny, tiny presence in the game. Punch-Out had more content than Final Fantasy for crying out loud. I don't think it's any accident the big second third party from the same franchise is such a notable character filling in such an obvious gap in the game's content from third party releases. They chose to give Final Fantasy VII the full treatment it missed the first time around that had basically been given to every other third party franchise in Smash. 1 single example of this in a very specific context does not inherently prove that Nintendo is suddenly not as interested in "Expanding the crossover" and Sephiroth was still expanding the crossover by bringing us an insanely recognizable third party villain arguably to begin with (I think Eggman or Chun-Li would be filling similar roles in they came along as well due to the fact that they are insanely recognizable in their own right and would not be any more indicative of "the dwindling availability of third parties/disinterest in expansion" just because they chose to bring in such iconic characters and expand on some of the biggest third parties in Smash.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

That's the original spelling. It's a French loanword.

Touche

 

[subterrestrial]

Sakurai thinks Smash 3DS is Smash 4 and Smash WiiU is Smash 5. He can't be trusted.

this is not a meme btw sakurai genuinely thinks this

 

[Schnee117]

If you think Sephiroth was added because the Remake was in development and Kazuya was added because Tekken 7 is a recent title then I have some big bridges to sell you

Seems to suggest that maybe you don't actually "want" all the characters on your list. You're just naming all the characters you can think of...

Alternatively there's a ton of stuff they'd like to see and it's hard to keep track of absolutely everything they want.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Seems to suggest that maybe you don't actually "want" all the characters on your list. You're just naming all the characters you can think of...

Think what you will but I love those games and characters. I'm still playing through Ring Fit Adventure, and Astral Chain is my favorite Platinum game ever.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think that it's possible that CP11 comes from a company without a fighter.

If that’s the case then it’s almost certainly Koei-Tecmo, ArcSystem Works, or Falcom

 

[Inferno7]

I don't think it would be odd to end with an underwhelming fighter. They ended smash 4 dlc and fp1 with first parties (and bayo) which all had recent releases and were follow ups to big third parties. It would be more odd if they pulled out a 3rd party, since there is less benefit to doing so at the end of the dlc lifecycle.

They went with Min Min as the first pick for this pass, and most agree that she's Byleth tier hype-wise

Patterns don't mean anything imo

 

[SKX31]

Pretty much the ones you said.

Who I'd prefer? Either Kratos or Ratchet.

Who I'd expect? Kratos, maybe Nathan Drake.

But the only right answer would be a Wipeout ship.


As far as I know Tomba isn't owned by them. But cool moveset

Obligatory shoutout to some really underrated OSTs:

How many of those would Nintendo go after in the context of 2018/2019 though? That's the point I'm driving. At that time, in Sephiroth's case, FF7 Remake was in full swing development-wise, Tekken 7 was only a couple years old, etc. Just because now there's stuff Nintendo could be interested in does not mean they were interested 2-3 years ago at all.

FF being a megalith also proves my point; instead of going for "expanding the crossover" like you're implying, they just added more FF content.

That is next-to-impossible to answer. To take an example that might not be related to Smash (but might, if what's probably a really small chance turns out to be true):

During 2018 no one here knew about Nintendo working with Tencent, a Chinese megacorp internationally known for owning Riot (LoL's developer) and whose reputation internationally can be summed up with "Has ties to the Chinese government therefore it's sus". But it is mainly a social networking megacorp - I've called them the Chinese Facebook for a reason - and that was a key reason why Nintendo partnered with them in the first place (I've chronicled Nintendo's struggles there in the past.).

And yet, three years later and not only is Tencent handling the Switch's operations in China, but they're also devving Pokemon Unite (which is also getting special treatment since it's the only Switch / mobile cross play title). We have absolutely no idea whether this relates to Smash or not - chances are pretty small since the time is pretty slim (we're talking that 2018 / 19 window if not slightly earlier at most). But still, this example is used to highlight that this can be rather hidden until official announcement's made.

And something similar can be applied to every single other corp Nintendo works with. While we know that Nintendo talked with corps like Bamco, S-E, Microsoft etc. we have no idea how many corps they considered in total during that time.

It's worth highlighting that Ultimate will have 12 DLC characters in total when it completes (incl. Plant Gang) - the limited number of slots basically guarantee that Nintendo are going to wind up picking and choosing between the different options they might be interested in. That's especially the case with 4 - maybe a 5th - first party characters included amongst the 12 DLC characters. EricTheGamerman listed 9 possible franchises for example - and in the scenario Nintendo keeps the 4/5 first party characters at least one of those franchises would by neccessity miss out even if Nintendo considered including them all. Doesn't mean Nintendo's not interested neccessarily, but the difference between "confirmed" and "might be interested in" is a very large one.

 

[DittoInDisguise]

They went with Min Min as the first pick for this pass, and most agree that she's Byleth tier hype-wise

Patterns don't mean anything imo

it's not really a pattern, it's more of a business decision. Once cp 11 releases smash won't be the huge money maker it is now. It makes much more sense for Nintendo to end on a recent 1st party so they can move the smash base (who all have a Nintendo switch so they can buy your games) to another game so they can keep making money off us. A third party could do that (like tracer since overwatch is on the switch) but a 1st party means that get all the money from the sales of whatever game the character is from.

Also, smash 4 dlc started with a 1st parties as well and then used big third parties to build hype for the 1st party ending. I easily see history being repeated this pass with them using the big third parties to buffer the less hype 1st parties (i.e. min min to steve, seph to pythra, and kazuya to whoever they pick). Of course, anything is possible but I'm leaning towards Nintendo being a corporation and going for the green rather than caring if they end on a banger or not.

 

[Theguy123]

I don't think it would be odd to end with an underwhelming fighter. They ended smash 4 dlc and fp1 with first parties (and bayo) which all had recent releases and were follow ups to big third parties. It would be more odd if they pulled out a 3rd party, since there is less benefit to doing so at the end of the dlc lifecycle.

Don’t think we’re ending on first party. Nintendo clearly saw the backlash of fire emblem being last and pooped their pants as I’m pretty sure there was potential evidence to say that min min wasn’t even meant to be first and would’ve come later onwards.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Nintendo clearly saw the backlash of fire emblem being last and pooped their pants

First of all, the characters were all locked in by November 2019, and second, they still did Byleth even with Corrin's backlash.

With Kazuya proving Mii Costumes from the franchise don't mean that much, basically all of these options sans a Rabbid itself and Skyrim are "on the table" so to speak even now.

But who exactly would they pick from MH?

 

[NessAtc.]

And you can't ignore the fact that Final Fantasy had basically nothing in the crossover or Sephiroth's incredibly recognizable status as a villain in gaming to try and force the point. Final Fantasy started with an incredibly small amount of content and did not get the chance to be expanded upon in base game like Street Fighter did. It was the single biggest third party series in Smash at the time of its inclusion (in terms of games sold) and it had a tiny, tiny presence in the game. Punch-Out had more content than Final Fantasy for crying out loud. I don't think it's any accident the big second third party from the same franchise is such a notable character filling in such an obvious gap in the game's content from third party releases. They chose to give Final Fantasy VII the full treatment it missed the first time around that had basically been given to every other third party franchise in Smash. 1 single example of this in a very specific context does not inherently prove that Nintendo is suddenly not as interested in "Expanding the crossover" and Sephiroth was still expanding the crossover by bringing us an insanely recognizable third party villain arguably to begin with (I think Eggman or Chun-Li would be filling similar roles in they came along as well due to the fact that they are insanely recognizable in their own right and would not be any more indicative of "the dwindling availability of third parties/disinterest in expansion" just because they chose to bring in such iconic characters and expand on some of the biggest third parties in Smash.

Ah yes, expanding the franchise to include a villain from a game already in smash. What a deep cut.

"Filling the emptiness" of FF7 content in base wasn't the reason why Sephiroth got chosen. If you think nintendo does things like that to give people a more "complete" package you're mistaken. Nintendo doesn't really care, because what they could get is what they could get. They went for more FF7 because FF7 was still ripe for the picking with Remake, not to give us more FF7 content. That was only a side effect of them getting Sephiroth in.

Even if you think Kazuya disproves the idea that mii costumes in DLC deconfirm, there's still not much reason to think many of the franchises you listed, such as monster hunter, should be getting in. It seems painfully obvious that Monster Hunter's just gonna be settling with the content it has now, with its assist trophy, world of light boss and map, two songs, array of spirits, and three mii costumes. Feels like MH is definitively gone, no matter how you slice it.

As for Crash, Rayman, etc, I doubt that having successful games on the platform necessarily creates interest in Nintendo's eyes.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Don’t think we’re ending on first party. Nintendo clearly saw the backlash of fire emblem being last and pooped their pants as I’m pretty sure there was potential evidence to say that min min wasn’t even meant to be first and would’ve come later onwards.

Money speaks louder than words. I'm willing to bet that most people bought the season pass and sales skyrocketed after Joker's reveal. Once everyone's bought it, the big N has your money. Considering this is the last DLC for Ultimate ever, they can really just end it on Cinderace and call it a day.

 

[NessAtc.]

Don’t think we’re ending on first party. Nintendo clearly saw the backlash of fire emblem being last and pooped their pants as I’m pretty sure there was potential evidence to say that min min wasn’t even meant to be first and would’ve come later onwards.

They changed gears from Byleth in the span of two months? When they were hard set on a plan as of November 2019?

Yeah, you're not fooling anyone. It doesn't even make any sense to end on someone like that last; you'd more likely end on Pyra and Mythra than anything bigger like that.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Touche

Touché.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Touché.

He's saying touchy as in touching is good!