Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

Exactly, people can make a similar argument for a Danganronpa character with a trilogy port for the Switch that they can for Dante. It's one of the reasons why Phoenix Wright ranks higher for me

We get it, you prefer Nick over Dante, no need to make every post of yours dedicated to downplaying Dante, a character who defined the hack and slash genre, has significantly higher sales than Ace Attorney despite having less games, became highly requested after people realized he's viable, has the whole Dante VS Bayo dream match, something people want so much that Hideki Kamiya, poster boy for arrogant game dev, admitted he ****ed up by denying that in PXZ2, got prioritized for MvC in which he was a big fan request, has a unique style as no franchise in Smash has similar music to DMC and has more moveset potential. Meanwhile Nick was always on Nintendo systems, something that Sakurai has said multiple times doesn't matter. See how easy it is to downplay the other character by focusing exclusively on a single point? For the record, I'd pop the **** off for either character as asking me to only pick one is like asking who my favourite child is

 

[MattX20]

We get it, you prefer Nick over Dante, no need to make every post of yours dedicated to downplaying Dante, a character who defined the hack and slash genre, has significantly higher sales than Ace Attorney despite having less games, became highly requested after people realized he's viable, has the whole Dante VS Bayo dream match, something people want so much that Hideki Kamiya, poster boy for arrogant game dev, admitted he *ed up by denying that in PXZ2, got prioritized for MvC in which he was a big fan request, has a unique style as no franchise in Smash has similar music to DMC and has more moveset potential. Meanwhile Nick was always on Nintendo systems, something that Sakurai has said multiple times doesn't matter. See how easy it is to downplay the other character by focusing exclusively on a single point? For the record, I'd pop the * off for either character as asking me to only pick one is like asking who my favourite child is

I'm not downplaying him. Dante does have viability in terms of moveset and content, but my main issue is that people keep using the Switch ports for DMC 1-3 as evidence and claims that Dante and DMC are more loved than Ace Attorney, which is bull. Dante does have merit, but it just annoys me when others like on other Smash discord channels I've been to say Dante is the ONLY viable Capcom rep based on that when that is clearly not the case. Beyond Phoenix, there's also Morrigan due to her being Capcom's crossover queen, Amaterasu since Okami is a widely beloved title that has seen many re-releases over the years, and even Viewtiful Joe if they want to use another of Kamiya's creations

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm not downplaying him. Dante does have viability in terms of moveset and content, but my main issue is that people keep using the Switch ports for DMC 1-3 as evidence and claims that Dante and DMC are more loved than Ace Attorney, which is bull. Dante does have merit, but it just annoys me when others like on other Smash discord channels I've been to say Dante is the ONLY viable Capcom rep based on that when that is clearly not the case. Beyond Phoenix, there's also Morrigan due to her being Capcom's crossover queen, Amaterasu since Okami is a widely beloved title that has seen many re-releases over the years, and even Viewtiful Joe if they want to use another of Kamiya's creations

As well as Chun-Li, if they want to give Street Fighter another rep, but that would mean that 50% of FP2 is made of fighting game reps, but it's clear that they don't care about genre representation.

 

[Gengar84]

You know what Capcom character would be awesome that never gets brought up? Date Masamune from Sengoku Basara. Unfortunately, that series has the same issue was Dynasty Warriors in that the characters are based on actual historical figures. If that was somehow not an issue, I’d absolutely love to see Masamune in Smash.

Date puts his guns on! (One eyed dragon party time!)

 

[Zeox]

Is going to be a character smaller than Kazuya, since E3 is the perfect place to announce your biggest character.
Besides that, if we go with how the first pack ended, there's an ever higher chance the last character is not going to be something big or something requested by a lot of people.
And whatever it ends up being, is going to generate a lot of salt because is the last character and whatever it is, a lot of people are going to be angry because "is not the character they wanted".

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Is going to be a character smaller than Kazuya, since E3 is the perfect place to announce your biggest character.
Besides that, if we go with how the first pack ended, there's an ever higher chance the last character is not going to be something big or something requested by a lot of people.
And whatever it ends up being, is going to generate a lot of salt because is the last character and whatever it is, a lot of people are going to be angry because "is not the character they wanted".

I agree, someone smaller than Kazuya. I’m set on SMTV protag, Andy from Advance Wars, Phoenix Wright and Monokuma as far as current possibilities, but I’m open to hearing other options

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I definitely don’t think the last character will be another Fire Emblem character, I think Sakurai knows the backlash Corrin and Byleth got

I think there’s a good chance it’ll be a first party, or an existing third party like a Sega or Capcom character (and probably not Dante for the latter as he’s a bit too high key. Phoenix, maybe) There’s also a chance Microsoft, Bandai Namco or Square Enix will double dip (feeling more SE or maybe even Namco as I don’t see Master Chief this late. I’ll explain why in a bit)

if we get a new third party, it could be an indie (Shantae, Reimu), Crash or a LoL rep. Indies I tend to doubt cuz we’ve only gotten Miis, Spirits and the Shovel Knight AT, and Crash and LoL are kinda big deals and most people will have already bought the pass so why save the heavy hitter for the end, unless more were coming? Which, I don’t think more is coming at this point. I guess LoL could get away with it seeing as how Riot is a Tencent subsidiary, Tencent brought the Switch to China (and are developing the Pokémon MOBA, Unite) and Smash Ultimate doesn’t have an official release there (it’s been all imports there so far) and for an official release there they may do a complete version with all DLC on cart, kinda like the “complete” editions of SwSh.

anyway, I’m feeling a (not-FE) first party the most as our last character atm. Since this is about missed opportunities, I could see Ayumi Tachibana or a Rhythm Heaven character, but I’m just feeling Splatoon the most y’know? Off the Hook is my impossible dream but I’ll be super happy with my Octoling babies too

Octolings/OtH line up with my 1-2-1-2-1-2 theory too (three of the spaces depict two characters in the same space, be they alts, duo or a two in one):
Min Min (1) - Steve and Alex (2) - Sephiroth (1) - Pyra/Mythra (2) - Kazuya (1) - Octolings or Off the Hook (2)

 

[SNEKeater]

So, if Phoenix Wright turns out to be the last fighter for Ultimate, would you be okay with it? I've been in a bit of a debate on a Discord server over whether or not he or Dante are more likely, the most I've gotten from the Dante side is just the recent Switch ports (only one of which has any new content) over the longer, more substantial history of the Ace Attorney series on Nintendo consoles.

I'd be very happy with Phoenix Wright. He's one of my MWs. I'd prefer Dante, because he's the character I want the most, but as I've said multiple times I'd be happy with almost any Capcom rep at this point. I love Ken but Capcom not getting an unique fighter for Smash Ultimate just feels so wrong to me, and I realize that is probably going to not change because we just have 1 character left, but still.

Anyway. Nick has been more requested historically speaking, and he probably appeals a bit more to Nintendo fans than Dante. Also, Ace Attorney has quite the history with Nintendo, and even if that has proven to not be always the most important factor for Nintendo and Sakurai, it helps.
But I'd say Nick being more requested than Dante has to do, in part, to Smash fans thinking that only 3rd party characters with strong Nintendo connections were an option. That's why before, suggestions like Cloud or Master Chief were considered a joke.

Once that perception changed, and coincidentally, Switch started getting DMC games, Dante rose in popularity quite a lot, with his peak probably being the months between Terry and Byleth.

He also got a new full AAA game recently that became the most popular entry in the series, with some appearances at The Game Awards, where it won the award to best action game and where they did a live performance of Devil Trigger.

Unlike Dante, Nick hasn't been that lucky in the past years. Yes, we're getting The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles soon, which is dope. It's technically still a port and not a new game, but still. But it doesn't feature (as far as I know, because I haven't played TGAA) Phoenix in any capacity. And before that, we got the original AA trilogy ported everywhere, which is nice. But still, not a new game.

And to be honest, and I'm saying this as a fan of the character and the series... even if we got Ace Attorney 7 soon, I don't think the situation in regards to Smash would change thaaat much. Visual novels by nature will hardly reach more mainstream circles, even if AA is the most popular series in the genre.

I personally think if it was up to Capcom, they would push for Resident Evil, Monster Hunter or maybe DMC. I don't see them suggesting Nick as a first option. But we all know Nintendo is the one choosing, if they go to Capcom and ask for Phoenix Wright, Capcom will surely accept, so far they've been very easy to work with, or at least that's how it feels.

The only issue I see with Resident Evil would be the sheer amount of body horror which may make the ESRB/CERO side-glance at it.


Granted, you can 100% redesign the zombies to not have their flesh torn up and ****, but Resident Evil does lean heavily into body horror for a lot of its most iconic enemies.

Maybe there are ways around it?
If they can't show zombies or other creatures in any capacity, maybe there's a compromise. Like, we get the Spencer Mansion from the first game, and we don't actually see the zombies, but we can see their shadows in the background, or something like that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I agree, someone smaller than Kazuya. I’m set on SMTV protag, Andy from Advance Wars, Phoenix Wright and Monokuma as far as current possibilities, but I’m open to hearing other options

May I interest you in Euden from Dragalia Lost?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

As much as I’d love to see a Danganronpa character playable, the subject matter… is a bit much even for CERO/ESRB. Yes Danganronpa’s “blood” is pink (a censorship choice that ultimately became its artistic flair) but it’s still understood that it’s blood and for frick’s sake the game revolves around teenagers murdering each other, finding the culprit and getting them executed

we could at most see a Monokuma Mii (I really want that actually)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not downplaying him. Dante does have viability in terms of moveset and content, but my main issue is that people keep using the Switch ports for DMC 1-3 as evidence and claims that Dante and DMC are more loved than Ace Attorney, which is bull. Dante does have merit, but it just annoys me when others like on other Smash discord channels I've been to say Dante is the ONLY viable Capcom rep based on that when that is clearly not the case. Beyond Phoenix, there's also Morrigan due to her being Capcom's crossover queen, Amaterasu since Okami is a widely beloved title that has seen many re-releases over the years, and even Viewtiful Joe if they want to use another of Kamiya's creations

In that case, first of all, sorry to hear you had a bad run in. Second, everyone uses ports and rereleases in favour of characters they want, hell, Nick got discussed a lot more since the Great Capcom Leak of 2020 and as DMC is bigger than AA, saying it's more loved isn't exactly bull, though it doesn't and shouldn't discredit AA's fanbase. Finally, it's a wellknown fact that the more Capcom characters we get in Smash, the closer we get to world peace

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What would be funny IMO is if our last character was the last company you’d expect: Konami

namely, Raiden from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance

we do have a spirit for him after all, and no other content from MGR. Easy challenger pack

 

[Kotor]

Like, by this same logic, the Character voice menu won't have any spots left after Kazuya is added. Does this mean that CP11 will be mute?


I mean, sure, it could, but they could also... just add another row?

Add... another row?

 

[chocolatejr9]

What would be funny IMO is if our last character was the last company you’d expect: Konami

namely, Raiden from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance

we do have a spirit for him after all, and no other content from MGR. Easy challenger pack

Actually, didn't somebody claim Konami owned Yu-Gi-Oh? They didn't give a source, so I don't want to assume things, but it got the old wheels turning in my head...

 

[Ivander]

Unfortunately, that series has the same issue was Dynasty Warriors in that the characters are based on actual historical figures. If that was somehow not an issue, I’d absolutely love to see Masamune in Smash.

They are, but man, they are dramatised to the extreme that they could easily be considered their own characters, even moreso then Castlevania's Dracula.

That said, while I don't see it happening for Smash, Date Masamune has always been a strong candidate for Vs. Capcom. He was supposed to be in Tatsunoko vs Capcom, but was cut due to time restraints and he was heavily requested(especially from Japan) for Marvel vs Capcom 3, but like the Monster Hunter producers at the time, SB's developers said no. Sengoku Basara is definitely not forgotten, since Oichi recently appeared in Capcom's crossover card game Teppen, but we still need to wait and see if another Vs. Capcom game will happen.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Actually, didn't somebody claim Konami owned Yu-Gi-Oh? They didn't give a source, so I don't want to assume things, but it got the old wheels turning in my head...

Yu-Gi-Oh started as an anime/manga first, then the card game (and subsequent video games) so unfortunately Yugi’s in the Goku camp

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As much as I’d love to see a Danganronpa character playable, the subject matter… is a bit much even for CERO/ESRB. Yes Danganronpa’s “blood” is pink (a censorship choice that ultimately became its artistic flair) but it’s still understood that it’s blood and for frick’s sake the game revolves around teenagers murdering each other, finding the culprit and getting them executed

we could at most see a Monokuma Mii (I really want that actually)

This is bull**** as Smash already features gory characters with disturbing themes and even jokes about it, remember Paz from Peace Walker/MGSV?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

This is bull**** as Smash already features gory characters with disturbing themes and even jokes about it, remember Paz from Peace Walker/MGSV?

I don’t see a DR moveset without references to the source material tho, pink blood and all

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yu-Gi-Oh started as an anime/manga first, then the card game (and subsequent video games) so unfortunately Yugi’s in the Goku camp

Yeah, I know. I just meant as in that one theoretical loophole that people sometimes bring up: that if the character is owned by a video game company, then it still counts. Problem is, the closest we've had so far is R.O.B., and I don't know if he's the best example to use. Maybe if Captain N or Nestor got added?

 

[Brother AJ]

What would be funny IMO is if our last character was the last company you’d expect: Konami

namely, Raiden from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance

we do have a spirit for him after all, and no other content from MGR. Easy challenger pack

If we get a Konami rep it has to be:

The character we didn't realize we desperately needed until the time was right...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I don’t see a DR moveset without references to the source material tho, pink blood and all

I could have made the same argument about Bayo and nudity in Sm4sh, but it doesn’t matter. Moveset issues like this honestly are not an issue, they made Snake and Bayo work and didn’t upset CERO or ESRB. You could easily make a moveset for Monokuma without blood.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If we get a Konami rep it has to be:

View attachment 320451

The character we didn't realize we desperately needed until the time was right...

Would people be okay with the anthropomorphic design? Because I feel like that's what we'd get...

No, not the one from The Great Quest, I'm talking about the good anthropomorphic design.

 

[Inferno7]

What would be funny IMO is if our last character was the last company you’d expect: Konami

namely, Raiden from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance

we do have a spirit for him after all, and no other content from MGR. Easy challenger pack

omg this would be so pog, aside from Raiden himself it would be beyond based to have OWA and ''It Has to be this Way'' in the same game.
Thing is, I don't see it happening. MGR is a bit old and there are licensing issues with the music afaik. Only reason to add him would be out of fan request.

 

[RileyXY1]

I agree, someone smaller than Kazuya. I’m set on SMTV protag, Andy from Advance Wars, Phoenix Wright and Monokuma as far as current possibilities, but I’m open to hearing other options

I find the SMTV protag unlikely because I don't see another Roy situation happening, plus they've never given the shillpick treatment to third parties.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What would be funny IMO is if our last character was the last company you’d expect: Konami

namely, Raiden from Metal Gear Rising Revengeance

we do have a spirit for him after all, and no other content from MGR. Easy challenger pack

I would dig Raiden. A cyborg ninja is bad***.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

What would be funny IMO is if our last character was the last company you’d expect: Konami

Ah yes
Bill Rizer and Lance Bean

based

 

[Technomage]

Thoughts on this video?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

A cyborg ninja is bad***.

IKR!?

 

[Momotsuki]

Thoughts on this video?

This seems to be reading waaay too much into things, for as much as I'm holding out for some more F-ZERO.

 

[Gengar84]

Would people be okay with the anthropomorphic design? Because I feel like that's what we'd get...

No, not the one from The Great Quest, I'm talking about the good anthropomorphic design.

I never really cared for Frogger’s anthropomorphic design so I’d rather not have him if that’s the only option. It feels a little weird of me to complain about an anthropomorphic frog considering the Battletoads are among my most wanted but whacha gonna do lol?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

And whatever it ends up being, is going to generate a lot of salt because is the last character and whatever it is, a lot of people are going to be angry because "is not the character they wanted".

Take a shot everytime someone says something like this.

Thoughts on this video?

As an F-Zero fan, I hope this theory becomes true.

 

[Technomage]

Smash Bros has a new power team. Please let this be a thing (like Sephiroth and Pichu)

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Maybe in a future GabaLeth comic, Sephy would yeet Junior to get revenge on Kaz for yeeting Pichu?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Kazuya and Bowser Jr. aren't near each other in the Everyone is Here banner
Therefore, they can't be a new power team

 

[Gengar84]

Ah yes
Bill Rizer and Lance Bean

based

I would love them in Smash and they are in my top 10 most wanted but I still don’t know how they would actually work. I’ve only played the first three games but in those, Bill and Lance never had any melee attacks and everything was a projectile. I’m curious how they’d make a character like that work for a fighting game like Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Thoughts on this video?

Kid Icarus Uprising deserves a port for sure, and hopefully better controls that won’t give you carpal tunnel or break your circle pad like it did mine

and given Falcon’s been in TWO trailers this pass, F-Zero making a comeback is something I’m hoping for more than ever

 

[spicynun]

I really do hope Capcom is last. I would honestly buy an entire pass that is just Capcom characters.
Ace Attorney
Okami
Devil May Cry
Resident Evil
Viewtiful Joe
Power Stone
Monster Hunter etc.
So many choices

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The Tekken Announcer does seem to voice Kazuya’s victory screen.

As it should be

 

[Technomage]

Actually, didn't somebody claim Konami owned Yu-Gi-Oh? They didn't give a source, so I don't want to assume things, but it got the old wheels turning in my head...

That's true, Konami really does own Yu-Gi-Oh!. However, the problem is it's a physical card game, not a video game.

It is unfortunate; Yugioh could have easily provided us with a third summoning item.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I would love them in Smash and they are in my top 10 most wanted but I still don’t know how they would actually work. I’ve only played the first three games but in those, Bill and Lance never had any melee attacks and everything was a projectile. I’m curious how they’d make a character like that work for a fighting game like Smash.

I emulated the OG NES game so imo, they'd just be shooting zoners that would deal planty of damage, but struggle with up-close combat. I would imagine Sakurai could hypothetically lower the actual amount of pellets (and maybe directions) correlating to the weapons Bill and/or Lance could use.

They could always improvise moves too, like give Bill and/or Lance a good ol' kick for their forward air, or something.

 

[Technomage]

Now, here's a new question: Once we get all of the DLCs added to the game, what would its tier list be like? I know for sure that Little Mac would be the lowest tier, maybe even his own tier named after himself.