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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Gengar84

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I don’t think Dante will have that problem. He had so many tricks up his sleeve that even if he had Devil Trigger, he’d be nothing like Kazuya. Big swords, dual wield little swords, pistols, shotguns, rockets, nunchucks, gauntlets, a freakin’ motorcycle, Dante has it all.

I’m not as familiar with the other three but as long as they’re not brawlers they could be fine too.
Illidan fights with a pair of giant glaives so I wouldn’t really consider him a brawler. Diablo is probably closest to Ridley in terms of play style being a huge monster with fiery attacks. I don’t know a lot about Demi-Fiend’s play style because I’ve never played a mainline SMT game (only Persona 3-5, Arena, and Strikers).
 

Twilord

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Well, like I said before, I don't even think I would be interested in buying a game like that at all if the roster was that tiny. Might as well just go back to playing Smash 64 lol.

Totally valid; BUT lets say it had some ridiculous high-concept awe-inspiring transcendent twist on Smash Bros.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Totally valid; BUT lets say it had some ridiculous high-concept awe-inspiring transcendent twist on Smash Bros.
Still not worth losing that many fan favorites. Look at Marvel vs Capcom Infinite

yes it had some interesting gameplay mechanics but was it really worth losing so many fan favorites? I’d say no
 

GoodGrief741

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Bayonetta would probably be one of the cheapest characters with the most gain from Nintendo's perspective. She and Sonic are basically the only ones I'd consider certainties...

Losing Sonic is too big a loss for Smash Bros public imagine; and Nintendo own too much of Bayonetta's content now to not include her.
I wasn't talking about any character in specific. We can go back and forth all day about which characters would be prioritized. My point was that I find it pretty naive to assume that one rep from a company coming back means the rest would come with him. That ignores the realities of licensing and development and other reasons why characters don't always make it back.
 

subterrestrial

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Out of curiosity why do so many people leave Resident Evil off their "big characters" lists? Even if you have never played Resident Evil, it's literally THE biggest Japanese third party not in Smash. Chris, Jill and Leon are also all popular and iconic videogame characters.
because for some reason, people still think spirit events deconfirm
 

MattX20

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because for some reason, people still think spirit events deconfirm
The fact they didn't have one for FE3H, but ones for RE, Astral Chain, and Pokemon Generation 8 says a lot about character chances/viability. This late into the second pass, any additional spirit events with new content are a death sentence for a character's chances.
 
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Twilord

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Still not worth losing that many fan favorites. Look at Marvel vs Capcom Infinite

yes it had some interesting gameplay mechanics but was it really worth losing so many fan favorites? I’d say no
I mean in any realistic scenario I agree; but I meant more of the abstract - if you had to choose.




I wasn't talking about any character in specific. We can go back and forth all day about which characters would be prioritized. My point was that I find it pretty naive to assume that one rep from a company coming back means the rest would come with him. That ignores the realities of licensing and development and other reasons why characters don't always make it back.
Oh that I can certainly agree with. Personally the only characters I feel reasonably confident in are Sonic, Bayonetta, Pac-Man, and as new as he is Kazuya.

Because Sonic is too much of a symbol and Bayonetta is too close to being first party, in addition to the fact they'd probably be negotiated at the same time which probably makes them both a lot easier to work with; Joker doesn't really have those factors despite also being SEGA. Meanwhile if Bandai Namco are involved in Smash Bros bringing back their boys becomes exceedingly feasible seeming.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Haven't been here in a while, so I dunno if anyone replied to this post but...

I stand then the reason for Kazuya was a combination of Sakurai wanting to use him for his more unique devil gene abilities as well as being the original protagonist of the first Tekken game.
You realize these two statements oppose each other, right?

The Devil Gene stuff wasn't implimented until after the first game, the only one where he was a protagonist. So saying he's added because first protagonist, then also say another reason is something that only happens when he's not the protagonist (aka every game but the first one and Tekken 3 where he's MIA) just feels like a weird stance to me.

And we already know thanks to people like Cloud, Hero and Joker that being the protagonist of the first game doesn't mean anything if future installments are more iconic and/or more well-known.

I think that Kazuya was added because he's a Mishima, by far the most iconic family in Tekken, and his Devil Gene abilities adding a new mechanic.

Literally as simple as that.
 
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MattX20

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Haven't been here in a while, so I dunno if anyone replied to this post but...


You realize these two statements oppose each other, right?

The Devil Gene stuff wasn't implimented until after the first game, the only one where he was a protagonist. So saying he's added because first protagonist, then also say another reason is something that only happens when he's not the protagonist (aka every game but the first one and Tekken 3 where he's MIA) just feels like a weird stance to me.

And we already know thanks to people like Cloud, Hero and Joker that being the protagonist of the first game doesn't mean anything.

I think that Kazuya was added because he's a Mishima, by far the most iconic family in Tekken, and his Devil Gene abilities adding a new mechanic.

Literally as simple as that.
Well, that and the fact they couldn't use Heihachi due to his voice actor's passing during the base game of Ultimate (his final role was Incineroar for the game).
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Well, that and the fact they couldn't use Heihachi due to his voice actor's passing during the base game of Ultimate (his final role was Incineroar for the game).
I think Kaz would've happened anyway because of the Devil Gene mechanic since they could've always just... reused Tekken 7 clips for Heihachi.

Otherwise, the Heihachi stage cameo would've likely never happened.
 
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subterrestrial

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The fact they didn't have one for FE3H, but ones for RE, Astral Chain, and Pokemon Generation 8 says a lot about character chances/viability. This late into the second pass, any additional spirit events with new content are a death sentence for a character's chances.
going off this logic; King Boo is the last dlc character and smash ultimate speculation is over
 

Louie G.

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The fact they didn't have one for FE3H, but ones for RE, Astral Chain, and Pokemon Generation 8 says a lot about character chances/viability. This late into the second pass, any additional spirit events with new content are a death sentence for a character's chances.
Can we really say this with such confidence at this point? A week ago a series getting a Mii costume without a character was a "death sentence" too... and that was within the same pass, even. I think it's safe to be skeptical of these series with spirit events but IMO it's silly to act like they're such a firm disconfirmation at this rate. Because like, we know they can just release whatever they want whenever they want.
 
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MattX20

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I think Kaz would've happened anyway because of the Devil Gene mechanic because they could've always just... reused Tekken 7 clips for Heihachi.
They treat voice actors with a great deal of respect in Japan and when one passes away, especially during a game's development, they don't try to replace them or use clips like that out of respect for them. The same thing also occurred when Hiromi Tsuru passed away before the release of Dragon Ball FighterZ, they didn't try to replace her right away.
 

Twilord

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Actually, it technically can't.
As in Sega Sammy considers them different franchises entirely.

But what if they turned the 'awesome' dial from 'eleven' to 'impossible omnibrilliance'?

What twelve modern Nintendo published characters would you expect to see in that reboot? Eight default, four unlock.
 

DarthEnderX

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And you know what that means...The next Mii slaughter. Rest in pepperoni Lloyd!

Potentially Nightmare as well.
At this point, Miis are straight upgrades though, from not being in the game at all. Which Nightmare is obviously not going to be at this point.

Waluigi is a partner of Wario who appears in many of Mario's spin-off games. Therefore, he should also appear in Wario games or get his own video game series for the first time.
Agreed.

Either give me Waluigi's Wrecking Crew, or put him in WarioWare.

A bit on the tiny side there, probably not going to buy.
Who the **** would?!
 
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MattX20

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Can we really say this with such confidence at this point? A week ago a series getting a Mii costume without a character was a "death sentence" too... and that was within the same pass, even. I think it's safe to be skeptical of these series with spirit events but IMO it's silly to act like they're such a firm disconfirmation at this rate. Because like, we know they can just release whatever they want whenever they want.
The Mii Costumes never deconfirmed series, only the characters in question represented by Mii Costumes. Many people thought Heihachi was the ONLY candidate for Smash, but forgot Jin and Kazuya existed. That, and Lloyd isn't the only Tales of series protagonist that could've been used had they gone with a Tales rep.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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They treat voice actors with a great deal of respect in Japan and when one passes away, especially during a game's development, they don't try to replace them or use clips like that out of respect for them.
You realize Heihachi's last VA was replacing another one that had died, right?

And it's been nearly 3 years since Unsho Ishizuka passed away. I think we're at a point where a replacement can happen if needed.
 
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MattX20

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You realize Heihachi's last VA was replacing another one that had died, right?

And it's been nearly 3 years since Unsho Ishizuka passed away. I think we're at a point where a replacement can happen if needed.
I'm aware of that, but during Ultimate's base game and even the first Fighter pass, that would've been considered too soon.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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They treat voice actors with a great deal of respect in Japan and when one passes away, especially during a game's development, they don't try to replace them or use clips like that out of respect for them.
We literally have an example of reused voice clips from a character who's voice actor died, and he's officially retired out of respect. I don't think that's going to be an issue from a character who's had about 4 voice actors at this point.
 

Guynamednelson

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And it's been nearly 3 years since Unsho Ishizuka passed away. I think we're at a point where a replacement can happen if needed
They can always go back to Banjo Ginga, the Heihachi VA who's yet to die.

...while they still have time since he's 72.
 
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Louie G.

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The Mii Costumes never deconfirmed series, only the characters in question represented by Mii Costumes.
Well we know that now, but had you asked everyone here a week ago I think you'd get a different consensus.

I don't think people counted Tekken out JUST because Heihachi was the main contender... actual fans of the series knew there were three main characters and I've actually seen a handful of people advocate for Jin before (prior to Heihachi's costume reveal). Kazuya less so, funny enough, but the point is that Heihachi's costume was seen as a damning point against more Tekken content mostly because "why wouldn't they just release the costume with the Tekken character?"

That extended even further to companies as a whole in the eyes of many people (including myself, admittedly). Why would they just drop the Namco costumes sporadically like that? Why drop all those Capcom costumes with Pythra? It seemed like there was unlikely to be any further plans for those companies, this was a pretty widely accepted train of thought.

With that in mind, why did they release Heihachi's costume early like that? There's no apparent reason for it, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to come alongside the actual Tekken character. So for example... why release the Gen 8 spirits early like that if they were going to add a Pokemon later? A week ago I agreed with this, now not so much. What's the difference between these two ideas? Honestly I see none.
 
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Cosmic77

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While I don't expect RE due to the fact that the Spirits were made from scratch (unlike the Heihachi costume) and debuted at a seemingly random time, it's a possibility.

At the very least, I think we should consider everything that came out prior to the Hayabusa costume as feasible. Not saying we have to label them as "likely", but we can stop acting like they're completely 100% dead.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Also, another good argument about Heihachi's VA would be this


This happened in late 2019, so yeah, Bandai Namco was more than okay with Heihachi's clips being reused before COVID even happened.

With that in mind, why did they release Heihachi's costume early like that?
The way I see it, it's probably Harada being a troll.
 

Twilord

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The Mii Costumes never deconfirmed series, only the characters in question represented by Mii Costumes. Many people thought Heihachi was the ONLY candidate for Smash, but forgot Jin and Kazuya existed.

We also thought it was incredibly clearly implied that getting DLC content from a franchise meant said franchise wouldn't get DLC later in the same pass; for a good few very logical reasons.


I don't think speculation can reasonably be done at this point. If we got "Minish Cap Toon Link" as a Luigi/Falco/Isabelle version of Toon Link, we could very easily declare it was "just another fan-rule speculators convinced themselves of" that we wouldn't get a semi-clone like that.
 
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DarthEnderX

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The dream FP discussion has inspired me to come up with a Fighters Pass that introduces 1 character for each company (well, parent company (like Microsoft or Sega), not companies owned by other companies (like Rare or Atlus)) already repped in the roster.

Anybody got any other ideas?
Nintendo: Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
Konami: Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
Sega: Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
Capcom: Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
Bandai-Namco: Nightmare [Soul Calibur]
Square Enix: Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
Microsoft: Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
SNK: SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]

Imagine if we get 100 numbered fighters, y'all..
I'm imagining it! That's another 3 Passes...

82. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]

83. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
84. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
85. Kunio/Riki [River City]
86. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
87. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
88. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]

89. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
90. Nightmare [Soul Calibur]
91. Kazuma Kiryu [Yakuza]
92. Bomberman [Bomberman]
93. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
94. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]

95. Dante [Devil May Cry]
96. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
97. Estelle Bright [Legend of Heroes]
98. Amaterasu [Okami]
99. Shantae [Shantae]
100. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
 
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MattX20

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Well we know that now, but had you asked everyone here a week ago I think you'd get a different consensus.

I don't think people counted Tekken out JUST because Heihachi was the main contender... actual fans of the series knew there were three main characters and I've actually seen a handful of people advocate for Jin before (prior to Heihachi's costume reveal). Kazuya less so, funny enough, but the point is that Heihachi's costume was seen as a damning point against more Tekken content mostly because "why wouldn't they just release the costume with the Tekken character?"

That extended even further to companies as a whole in the eyes of many people (including myself, admittedly). Why would they just drop the Namco costumes sporadically like that? Why drop all those Capcom costumes with Pythra? It seemed like there was unlikely to be any further plans for those companies, this was a pretty widely accepted train of thought.

With that in mind, why did they release Heihachi's costume early like that? There's no apparent reason for it, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to come alongside the actual Tekken character. So for example... why release the Gen 8 spirits early like that if they were going to add a Pokemon later? A week ago I agreed with this, now not so much. What's the difference between these two ideas? Honestly I see none.
Heihachi's Mii costume was most likely added with MinMin because she's from a fighting game and they needed a fitting costume to go alongside her. After all, recall that she was one of the people Kazuya threw into the volcano in his trailer.
 

Cosmic77

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Heihachi's Mii costume was most likely added with MinMin because she's from a fighting game and they needed a fitting costume to go alongside her. After all, recall that she was one of the people Kazuya threw into the volcano in his trailer.
Ninjara wasn't fitting enough for Min Min?
 
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GilTheGreat19

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Sakurai's love for the NES era gives me a gut feeling that he'd want to try to get EVERY NES game repped to his ability.
To my prior knowledge, Contra, Ninja Gaiden, Bubble Bobble, and Startropics are left.
 
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Louie G.

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Heihachi's Mii costume was most likely added with MinMin because she's from a fighting game and they needed a fitting costume to go alongside her.
That's good enough justification for Heihachi to appear alongside Min Min in a vacuum, but clearly the more fitting choice would be to release Heihachi alongside content from his own series. My point is just to keep an open mind about this stuff because apparently the logic we had accepted before isn't applicable any longer, so I think we ought to be consistent with that and allow for discussion of spirit events and the like.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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While I don't expect RE due to the fact that the Spirits were made from scratch (unlike the Heihachi costume) and debuted at a seemingly random time, it's a possibility.
As much as official renders from Capcom can be "from scratch". lol

I get your point, but the wording is a little funny.

Ninjara wasn't fitting enough for Min Min?
Yeah unless they were crunched and couldn't make another ARMS costume (a Twintelle one would have been kind of interesting) there's not really any reason they threw in the Heihachi costume specifically.
 
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