Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai never said that he didn’t want Waluigi; some people spread false rumors like the one where Assist Trophies can’t be promoted (as in Sakurai himself saying it, not the speculation idea).



That rumor also includes making the NPCs in Paper Mario more generic compared to past games, as well as barring off other characters whom are already represented in Smash.

Although I don’t remember the Wah-Peach part, and that sounds rather silly and weird/petty for Waluigi to be denied because of an idea for a different character being rejected :S Sounds fake.

Actually, the Paper Mario thing isn't a rumor, but a mandate. The Waluigi thing is a rumor in comparison. One pretty unfounded.

Wah-Peach is a separate thing where they were thinking of giving her an evil counterpart. Never went through. Same naming scheme as Waluigi and Wario basically. Wapeach doesn't really work that well compared to the other names either, incidentally.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Yay I'm late for yet another dream fighter pass discussion. Well here is mine.

Plus a bonus repost of my ideal Smash Bros roster.

There you go. My Zoomer unfriendly fighter pass and character roster

 

[Lyncario]

Those in the Social Thread should know what I'm talking about, but earlier today we were dissecting a Youtube video that I linked to the thread. It was awful and poorly researched with blatant info (so I don't want to subject you guys to that vid), but at the end he said that this would be an ideal fighters pass.
View attachment 320114
Is this an ideal pass to you guys? The social thread straight up said no, but I want to know what you guys think.

To say what our ideal pass would be, we first need to define what an ideal pass is. In my opinion, there's 2 kind of ideal passes: The personnal, and the general.

The personnal ideal pass is pretty obviously about your most wanted characters getting in. And my top 5 is Reimu, Demi-Fiend, Sora, Phoenix Wright, and Rayman, so that's not a personnal ideal pass for me to begin with. But that's obvious, since we all hvae different taste in video game and characters. So, is it a personnal ideal pass for most of hte comunity, aka giving all the top most wanted? While Crash and Master Chief are contenders for it at the very least, Shantae isn't, and while Waluigi and Eggman have sizeable want they're also not top 5. If you want to truly make it the top 5 most wanted by the comunity, then Sora and Dante would be required alongside Crash and either Master Chief or Doomguy, and I don't know who for number 5. So this fails at being an overall personnal ideal pass.

Then, there's also the point of view of an ideal pass representing as many new things as possible. Let's analyse that one.

Crash and Master Chief are good picks for an ideal pass since they are both linked to a specific era of gaming, represent new series, Crash represents a new company, and Chief represents a new genre (even if I don't care for him).

Eggman is fine most of the time but touting him as an ideal pick really annoys me, especialy when people pretend that Sonic is unrepresented, or the most underepresented series in Slash now that Sephiroth is in alongside good FF7 content (Pac-Man Final Fantasy as a whole, and Persona as a whole (let alone MegaTen as a whole) are still way less represented than Sonic is). So no, he's not a character on an ideal pass for me.

Shantae is fine, even if I'm very I-don't-care-inator about her. She represents her series, company, and also indies in a way.

Now, one other big problem this pass would have at representing new things is that out of 5 characters, 4 come from platformers, a genre already more than well repped in Smash, which is also equal to how many fighting game characters there is in Smash, so rather than anything it just makes it obvious that the guy who made the video is just mad that his most wanted did not get in rather than him actualy criticizing the dlc.

Now, to make an ideal pass to represent as many new things as possible, there's some things to take into account, their series, genre of origins, the company who owns the series, and many other things. But if we try to represent as much as possible with 5 characters, then I'll try for a bit.

Reimu would represent Touhou, Team Shangai Alice, smhups, and indie games.

Monokuma and Junko would represent Danganronpa, visual novels, and Spike Chunsoft.

Heavy Weapon Guy would represent Team Fortress 2, Valve, first person shooters, western games, and free to play games.

Now, those are only 3 examples that came to me fast and who all represent a new series, genre, and company, and there's many more options for many genres, series, companies, and many more. You could pretty easily make a 5 character pass like this if you put a little research into it.

So while I don't have a definite answer for one true ideal pass, since it doesn't exist, I think that the 2 possibility I gave are good start for something close to it.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Have you tried Mega Man

Yes, I have. He's fun, but is kind of simplistic compared to the other characters we have in the franchise.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

One week until the presentation.

And you know what that means...The next Mii slaughter. Rest in pepperoni Lloyd!

Potentially Nightmare as well.

 

[Stratos]

Waluigi is a partner of Wario who appears in many of Mario's spin-off games. Therefore, he should also appear in Wario games or get his own video game series for the first time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yes, I have. He's fun, but is kind of simplistic compared to the other characters we have in the franchise.

This is incredibly ironic as I remember people saying Mega Man ended up being far too complicated for their liking in Smash 4

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Mii predictions for next week.

Dig Dug (Gunner)
Jin Kazama (Brawler)
Kuma and Panda Mii Hats
Lloyd Irving (Swordfighter)
Nightmare (Swordfighter)
Yoshimitsu (Swordfighter)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Mii predictions for next week.

Dig Dug (Gunner)
Jin Kazama (Brawler)
Kuma and Panda Mii Hats
Lloyd Irving (Swordfighter)
Nightmare (Swordfighter)
Yoshimitsu (Swordfighter)

Not bad. I would like to see some unexpected Miis like Monokuma (Danganronpa; basically this wave’s Vault Boy/Travis) and another Indie Mii with a song (that hopefully ISN’T a Gunner this time)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Not bad. I would like to see some unexpected Miis like Monokuma (Danganronpa; basically this wave’s Vault Boy/Travis) and another Indie Mii with a song (that hopefully ISN’T a Gunner this time)

Hmmm forgot about the possibility of a Deluxe Mii.

 

[Gengar84]

Mii predictions for next week.

Dig Dug (Gunner)
Jin Kazama (Brawler)
Kuma and Panda Mii Hats
Lloyd Irving (Swordfighter)
Nightmare (Swordfighter)
Yoshimitsu (Swordfighter)

Do you think an Agumon Mii outfit could work well? It would be cool to see Digimon represented in some way.

 

[Deleted member]

It would be hilarious if we got an Among Us costume. But the only 2 I'm expecting are Lloyd & Jin. The rest could be anything.

 

[RileyXY1]

If we don't see Lloyd's costume next week then that guarantees for me that CP11 is going to be another JRPG character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If we don't see Lloyd's costume next week then that guarantees for me that CP11 is going to be another JRPG character.

I really doubt Namco is gonna get a double dip.

 

[RileyXY1]

I really doubt Namco is gonna get a double dip.

I said any JRPG character, not just Namco Bandai ones.

 

[Gengar84]

I really doubt Namco is gonna get a double dip.

I think he was just suggesting any JRPG character could come with Lloyd, not necessarily a Namco character.

 

[Garteam]

For some reason, I have a feeling that Kazuya will be another miscellaneous wave of Mii costumes with a Jin costume thrown in, similar to how Min Min and Steve were mostly miscellaneous but had a couple of costumes that matched their home series.

That being said, I'd be very, very surprised if Lloyd's costume didn't pop up now, though.

 

[dezeray112]

Mii predictions for next week.

Dig Dug (Gunner)
Jin Kazama (Brawler)
Kuma and Panda Mii Hats
Lloyd Irving (Swordfighter)
Nightmare (Swordfighter)
Yoshimitsu (Swordfighter)

Here are my predictions:

• Jin Kazama - Tekken - (Brawler)
• Nina Williams/Lili/Ling Xiaoyu - Tekken - (Brawler)
• King - Tekken - (Brawler)
• Klonoa - Klonoa - (Brawler)
• Bravoman - Bravoman (Brawler)
• Lloyd Irving - Tales of Symphonia - (Swordfighter)
• Yoshimitsu - Tekken/SoulCalibur - (Swordfighter)
• Nightmare - SoulCalibur - (Swordfighter)
• Sophitia Alexandria - SoulCalibur - (Swordfighter)
• Soma Shicksal - God Eater (Swordfighter)
• Richard Miller - Time Crisis - (Gunner)
• Wild Dog - Time Crisis - (Gunner)

 

[Eldrake]

For some reason, I have a feeling that Kazuya will be another miscellaneous wave of Mii costumes with a Jin costume thrown in, similar to how Min Min and Steve were mostly miscellaneous but had a couple of costumes that matched their home series.

That being said, I'd be very, very surprised if Lloyd's costume didn't pop up now, though.

Imagine if Lloyd's costume never returned and we didn't get any Tales content. Mass confusion in the Smash fanbase.

 

[RileyXY1]

For some reason, I have a feeling that Kazuya will be another miscellaneous wave of Mii costumes with a Jin costume thrown in, similar to how Min Min and Steve were mostly miscellaneous but had a couple of costumes that matched their home series.

That being said, I'd be very, very surprised if Lloyd's costume didn't pop up now, though.

Typically Japanese 3rd party characters only come with Mii costumes from their company/franchise with some returning Smash 4 Mii Fighter costumes if possible. The miscellaneous Mii costume waves always come with Western 3rd party characters and 1st party characters. Going by this pattern Kazuya would only come with Tekken costumes + the Lloyd costume.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm 99.9% certain Lloyd is returning as a Mii next week being Kazuya is Namco.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Watch Kazuya come with a Taiko mii costume thats just a floating shoulder Don-chan like in tekken

 

[SNEKeater]

Yeah I could see a very random wave of costumes like, 1 Tekken costume (probably Jin), Lloyd's costume, and then 2-3 random costume from other companies.
Also for obvious reasons this time is the best opportunity to get some FGC costumes. So who knows, maybe we'll get costumes for Nightmare, Sol, or even Scorpion/Sub-zero. That would be cool.

Also, if Lloyd manages to survive one more time and his costume doesn't return with Kazuya, I think it would be a really safe bet to expect a RPG/swordfighter character as CP11.

Watch Kazuya come with a Taiko mii costume thats just a floating shoulder Don-chan like in tekken

To be honest I wouldn't complain against that.

 

[Gengar84]

I just had a thought. Do you think Kazuya lessens the chances of getting another demonic character like Diablo, Illidan, Demi-Fiend or Dante? I’m not sure if they would go with two characters with similar vibes like that back to back. I’d love Illidan and Diablo but Illidan especially resembles Kazuya’s devil form. Not that Illidan or Diablo were especially likely to begin with.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wish, but at this point I'm not confident at all.

If I'm wrong about big franchises being out and it happened, though, that's a crow I'll gladly eat lol.



You mean Animal Crossing or Assassin's Creed?

For how many times I got stumped by those initials, I wish someone had a crossover art of the two.

Well, along with Mario Kart x Mortal Kombat.

Late but AC also stands for Astral Chain lul

 

[Gengar84]

Late but AC also stands for Astral Chain lul

And Armored Core but they haven’t made one of those in a while. There’s also Advent Children and Age of Calamity (though that one is usually AoC).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

To be honest I wouldn't complain against that.

I wouldn't either, that little shoulder pet the cutest damn thing ever

 

[Technomage]

The dream FP discussion has inspired me to come up with a Fighters Pass that introduces 1 character for each company (well, parent company (like Microsoft or Sega), not companies owned by other companies (like Rare or Atlus)) already repped in the roster. Here goes:

Nintendo: Waluigi
Konami: Bomberman
Sega: Dr. Eggman
Capcom: Morrigan Aensland
Bandai-Namco: Agumon
Square Enix: Squall Leonhart
Microsoft: Master Chief
SNK: Marco Rossi

Anybody got any other ideas?

I just had a thought. Do you think Kazuya lessens the chances of getting another demonic character like Diablo, Illidan, Demi-Fiend or Dante? I’m not sure if they would go with two characters with similar vibes like that back to back. I’d love Illidan and Diablo but Illidan especially resembles Kazuya’s devil form. Not that Illidan or Diablo were especially likely to begin with.

I don't know, but we did get 2 dark biblical creatures so close to each other (Sephy the dark angel and Kaz the dark devil), even though there was a different character between the two.

 

[Inferno7]

I just had a thought. Do you think Kazuya lessens the chances of getting another demonic character like Diablo, Illidan, Demi-Fiend or Dante? I’m not sure if they would go with two characters with similar vibes like that back to back. I’d love Illidan and Diablo but Illidan especially resembles Kazuya’s devil form. Not that Illidan or Diablo were especially likely to begin with.

Kind of, especially Dante
Illidan was never likely imo, although Diablo was kind of a sleeper pick due to all the merchandise and collabs they got with Ninty. I personally wanted to see him in but he would be a nightmare to tone down, not to mention his hypothetical spirit board with grotesque designs all over the place.

 

[Gengar84]

The dream FP discussion has inspired me to come up with a Fighters Pass that introduces 1 character for each company (well, parent company (like Microsoft or Sega), not companies owned by other companies (like Rare or Atlus)) already repped in the roster. Here goes:

Nintendo: Waluigi
Konami: Bomberman
Sega: Dr. Eggman
Capcom: Morrigan Aensland
Bandai-Namco: Agumon
Square Enix: Squall Leonhart
Microsoft: Master Chief
SNK: Marco Rossi

Anybody got any other ideas?



I don't know, but we did get 2 dark biblical creatures so close to each other (Sephy the dark angel and Kaz the dark devil), even though there was a different character between the two.

I might as well make my own dream list following this.

Nintendo: Gengar
Konami: Bill Rizer
Sega: Makoto
Capcom: Zero
Bandai-Namco: Velvet Crowe
Square-Enix: Magus
Microsoft: Battletoads

I don’t really know any other characters from SNK so I left that out.

 

[Inferno7]

So are we making wishlist passes now?
Anyway

Nintendo: Galacta Knight
Konami: Raiden
Sega: Shadow
Capcom: this is a hard choice, but I think Zero would be just a tiny bit better than Dante
Bandai Namco: Lloyd Irving
Square Enix: idk, Lightning I guess
Microsoft: Master Chief no question
SNK: Geese Howard

I'd buy the pass in a whim if any of these characters was revealed

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I just had a thought. Do you think Kazuya lessens the chances of getting another demonic character like Diablo, Illidan, Demi-Fiend or Dante? I’m not sure if they would go with two characters with similar vibes like that back to back. I’d love Illidan and Diablo but Illidan especially resembles Kazuya’s devil form. Not that Illidan or Diablo were especially likely to begin with.

Maybe?

I mean, I dunno. On one hand, Devil Gene seems to work in a way most people thought Devil Trigger would, but there are so many ways you can do a DLC power mode. Then again, I have personally always been of the opinion that Dante was always a little overrated in chance anyway.

Outside of the obvious of Namco and Fighting game characters being hurt by Kazuya, I think the biggest impact is just other “big” series. You could argue that something can be comparatively small to Tekken Minecraft and Final Fantasy, but I think that is unlikely.

 

[Gengar84]

I think I might be the only one that still feels weird lumping RARE in with Microsoft, despite the fact that Microsoft has owned them for around 20 years now. RARE characters still feel very much like Nintendo characters to me. The large majority of their iconic characters were made while they were partially owned by Nintendo. I want to say Nintendo owned 49 percent of the company at one point. Some of the most memorable SNES and N64 games were made by RARE. That’s why I still consider them honorary Nintendo characters.

 

[Twilord]

Nintendo: Waluigi
Konami: Bomberman
Sega: Dr. Eggman
Capcom: Morrigan Aensland
Bandai-Namco: Agumon
Square Enix: Squall Leonhart
Microsoft: Master Chief
SNK: Marco Rossi

These aren't my picks, just some predictions I could easily see chosen if they were discussing it right now.

Nintendo: Advaced Wars rep

SEGA: Monkey Ball rep

Konami: Bomberman

Capcom: A Palico --- this feels like an oddly Sakurai solution to the Hunter problem

Sqaure Enix: Tomb Raider

Bandai Namco: ... ugh, I really want to keep saying Agumon, but since this would be their third rep the 'ongoing inhouse' thing feels like it doesn't apply as much, so I could see Chosen Undead taking it off him.

Square Enix: Lara Croft

Microsoft: Master Chief

SNK: Metal Slug rep

 

[Schnee117]

I just had a thought. Do you think Kazuya lessens the chances of getting another demonic character like Diablo, Illidan, Demi-Fiend or Dante? I’m not sure if they would go with two characters with similar vibes like that back to back. I’d love Illidan and Diablo but Illidan especially resembles Kazuya’s devil form. Not that Illidan or Diablo were especially likely to begin with.

No because they aren't going to reject a character for arbitrary reasons like that. We already got silent self insert JRPG protagonists twice in a row with Joker and Hero. It's always about the abilities and what they bring to the table. Kazuya has few similarities to the other demonic characters beyond Demi-Fiend's basic attacks most likely entailing punching (and maybe Dante using one of his many Gauntlet and Greaves type weapons) and having a Devil Form like Dante, which would work differently anyway.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is incredibly ironic as I remember people saying Mega Man ended up being far too complicated for their liking in Smash 4

Maybe the Metal Blade setups are complicated?

Even so, I would say that Mega Man is just more difficult to wrap your brain around using since the Mega Buster is a very different tool from what players would be used to. The Mega Buster itself isn't really all that complicated though.

I don't think other characters would be much more complex than Mega Man either. Proto Man and Bass would play very similarly to Mega Man with differences mainly being stuff like Proto Man's OP projectile shield in exchange for taking more damage from everything, and Bass's Bass Buster that's 8-directional, but locks him into place when on the ground so he can aim.

Dr. Wily would be a heavy projectile zoner with a comeback mechanic. The most complicated thing he'd have would probably be aimable projectiles.

X would take a similar approach to Mega Man's gameplan since they are similar characters, but despite his weapons getting pretty weird after Mega Man X4, I don't think he'd be all that complicated either. Zero is just a straightforward "hold right and press buttons" kind of character. The most complicated thing about him would be balancing his tools. lol. And then Axl...I would wait to even implement the kid. His gimmick is that he gets different physical weapons rather than just firing different stuff out of an arm cannon, which causes problems in putting together a cohesive moveset, and depending on how well a Mega Man X9 is funded, he may have to be dropped from it. Also he can copy other characters, but I highly doubt turning things into a ditto match for a bit is all that game breaking.

As for Vile and Sigma...Vile would have some dumb tools and a defeatist mechanic (or maybe he'd do something else with his Ride Armour) so...that would be interesting. I honestly haven't done enough Sigma fights to really know what he'd do, so I can't really say.


Oh. It's been 30 minutes...I'm gonna stop typing now.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The dream FP discussion has inspired me to come up with a Fighters Pass that introduces 1 character for each company (well, parent company (like Microsoft or Sega), not companies owned by other companies (like Rare or Atlus)) already repped in the roster. Here goes:

Nintendo: Waluigi
Konami: Bomberman
Sega: Dr. Eggman
Capcom: Morrigan Aensland
Bandai-Namco: Agumon
Square Enix: Squall Leonhart
Microsoft: Master Chief
SNK: Marco Rossi

Anybody got any other ideas?

I'll give this a go because it gives me a chance to talk about some obscure characters.

Nintendo: John Raimi (Geist)
Konami: Cormano (Sunset Riders)
Sega: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)
Capcom: Amingo (Marvel vs. Capcom 2)
Namco: Klonoa
Square Enix: Ark (Terranigma)
Microsoft: Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)
SNK: Simea (Crystalis)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All this "Dante disconfirmed because Devil Trigger overlaps with Devil Kazuya" stuff is going to be pretty funny when people see

"Kazuya moves like this:"


and avoid the character like the plague. I'm kinda joking but I'm also kinda not. This happens with like, every fighting game character.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I mean, if you're dividing it by genre, it's only fair to mention that Fighter Pass 1 did also have four genres represented: JRPG, Platformer, Fighting, and Strategy/Tactics.

Lumping Byleth with Joker and Hero as just a JRPG kinda misses the biggest aspect of Fire Emblem's gameplay, which is a strategy game first and foremost.

Thank you for pointing this out!

 

[Twilord]

You all know they're only bringing Advance Wars so they can double the amount of Intelligent Systems Tactical JRPG characters they can add to Smash Bros as DLC and post reboot.