Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[7NATOR]

That reminds me: If Kazuya were to implement the Tekken limb system, how complex would his controls be (such as command inputs)? Honestly, that might make me feel unsure about making him one of my casual mains (hopefully we won't get anything as complex as that Pretzel command input).

For my Personal thoughts, It would probably mean that Kazuya would sacrifice the regular Shield and Grabbing system, as those Buttons might be used as additional Attack buttons to have 4 Limb attack buttons

Characters in Tekken Shield automatically if you stand still, so that could maybe be how Kazuya shields. Low Attacks might be a problem though, but that's why you Backdash or Low parry it. Grab is done by using a Combination of the Attack Buttons

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I’m actually happy Kazuya got in simply because I heard basically nobody on here talk about/predict him. What does that mean? It means I’m not completely tired of the character before he even got revealed. It also means that we may not have as good an idea who the last character is as we thought we did.

Now Kayuza himself, like most of the DLC, isn’t particularly a character I know. I’m up to give him a shot but eh, if I don’t wind up liking him, there’s still all the other characters.

I do wonder, how do you all feel about the final character being a first/third party now? (In other words, which do you think is more likely?) Any change in thought or still relatively the same?

I don't really have any new thoughts on 1st vs 3rd party. It could go either way for me, especially with how many characters have been a shade off from what we'd expect (Pyra/Mythra without Rex, Min Min instead of Spring Man, Sephiroth instead of a new IP). I am leaning toward a more cartoony or inhuman character for the last one, though. We've gotten 7 humanoid characters in a row, and most of them have been on the more realistic/anime side of things. Pass 2 is a bit lacking in the cute department, if that makes sense. No real logic here, just a gut feeling.

 

[Guynamednelson]

For my Personal thoughts, It would probably mean that Kazuya would sacrifice the regular Shield and Grabbing system, as those Buttons might be used as additional Attack buttons to have 4 Limb attack buttons

That might be a problem because when you press the Grab button in Smash, the game considers it Shield+Attack being pressed together, not its own separate command.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

For my Personal thoughts, It would probably mean that Kazuya would sacrifice the regular Shield and Grabbing system, as those Buttons might be used as additional Attack buttons to have 4 Limb attack buttons

Characters in Tekken Shield automatically if you stand still, so that could maybe be how Kazuya shields. Low Attacks might be a problem though, but that's why you Backdash or Low parry it. Grab is done by using a Combination of the Attack Buttons

The trailer shows 4 throws and his pummel animation, so I really doubt grab's gone.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

The trailer shows 4 throws and his pummel animation, so I really doubt grab's gone.

But the 10 hit combo though...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Real quick, do Chorus Kids and/or Dixie, or even Decidueye have figurines? Still adhering to Figure Theory for the last fighter (not counting a potential bonus if true) and I am confident Kazuya’s presentation will reference his figurine. It exists.

 

[Nekoo]

or even Decidueye have figurines?

It's a ****ing pokémon.
Of course it does.

 

[Shroob]

Oh yeah.




Cacomallow is really, really, REALLY ****ing dead now.


Only 1 character left and all that. To the 2 Cacomallow stans left out there, it's over.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Decidueye have figurines

It's Pokemon, why wouldn't it?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

We still don’t have the successor of the Hero and Sephiroth trailers that recreate the final battle of WoL.
Popular characters that could fit this trailer are:

• Demifiend
• Dante or Vergil
• Bayonetta rep
• Octoling
• SMT V protagonist

Any other characters that could fit this trailer idea?

 

[Technomage]

So, does Kazuya mean that Thirst Theory is still alive and kicking?

We still don’t have the successor of the Hero and Sephiroth trailers that recreate the final battle of WoL.
Popular characters that could fit this trailer are:

• Demifiend
• Dante or Vergil
• Bayonetta rep
• Octoling
• SMT V protagonist

Any other characters that could fit this trailer idea?

Spoiler

Monika from Doki Doki Literature Club.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So, does Kazuya mean that Thirst Theory is still alive and kicking?

He is daddy so yes

 

[zferolie]

We still don’t have the successor of the Hero and Sephiroth trailers that recreate the final battle of WoL.
Popular characters that could fit this trailer are:

• Demifiend
• Dante or Vergil
• Bayonetta rep
• Octoling
• SMT V protagonist

Any other characters that could fit this trailer idea?

Reimu fits. She fights bullet hell monsters all the time and other of those gods are full of bullet hell

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think I've about exhausted the input that I could make on Kazuya, so I think I'll go back to making challenger pack concepts. I recently went on a Mega Man X binge so I wanted to do one for X, but trying to mold his source material into a workable set of normals (without taking the cowards way out and turning into PunchyKicky Man X like in MvCI) was melting my brain so I'm making one for Zero instead.

I never realized how much Zero's moveset writes itself until after playing Mega Man X4-X8; Everything's a directional input unless it's a generic upgrade or mainly there to be a different weapon type (which probably accounts for like, 4 techniques across the series).

EDIT: Also it would be fun to watch Smash commentaters try and fail to name Zero's techniques since the majority of them are intimidating looking Japanese names like Raijinshou and Sentsuizan.

 

[Schnee117]

Decidueye has two figures going by a 5 second Google search

 

[Eldrake]

Oh yeah.




Cacomallow is really, really, REALLY ****ing dead now.


Only 1 character left and all that. To the 2 Cacomallow stans left out there, it's over.

Not so fast, they still have the possibility of a bonus fighter! Cacomallow WILL be real!

 

[7NATOR]

The trailer shows 4 throws and his pummel animation, so I really doubt grab's gone.

Grab wouldn't be gone, it would just be down using a Combination of Attack Buttons, like how it works in Tekken, instead of just pressing the Grab Button

That might be a problem because when you press the Grab button in Smash, the game considers it Shield+Attack being pressed together, not its own separate command.

Though this may be an issue to the idea. It could be coded differently for Kazuya perhaps, but I forgot some of the actions in htis game use Macro inputs in coding

fair enough. I think you're right, if this truly is the last character, it's better to go all out before speculation eventually dies.

However, I don't think anniversaries matter because of the timing & deadlines, which would be a nightmare to accomplish accordingly during such a long timeframe where a lot of developmental issues/hurdles can happen, even for Nintendo. We also have to consider Sakurai and his team have been working their hardest yet it seems like a lot was delayed because of Covid-19, especially Steve. Considering how mechanically intensive characters such as Kazuya & Steve seem to be, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.
Sonic is getting a new game in 2022 though so I wouldn't bother about timing.

Yeah you're right. Covid does have an effect on the scheduling, and I pretty sure the plans of how Nintendo was gonna advertise FP2 before Covid is different from after Covid. I know there was speculation that Sephiroth was actually supposed to be first character

 

[Technomage]

He is daddy so yes

Now, what characters would NOT fit into thirst theory?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We still don’t have the successor of the Hero and Sephiroth trailers that recreate the final battle of WoL.
Popular characters that could fit this trailer are:

• Demifiend
• Dante or Vergil
• Bayonetta rep
• Octoling
• SMT V protagonist

Any other characters that could fit this trailer idea?

You could swap Octoling out for Off the Hook and it’d still fit

esp since 2’s final fest was Chaos (Dharkon) vs Order (Galeem)

…crap dude I actually unironically NEED Marina Hyperbombing Galeem and Pearl BOOOOYAAAAAHHHHHH-ing Dharkon

GIVE IT TO ME NOW.

 

[Faso115]

So Kazuya. Who expected yet another villain? Or hell, who expected the literal third choice when supposedly Heihachi and Jin are more "important" than you?

One slot to go, is this truly the end of the speculation cycle? For our mental health's sake, maybe it will be. I just hope Crash managed to sneak in before it all ends.

 

[Paraster]

We still don’t have the successor of the Hero and Sephiroth trailers that recreate the final battle of WoL.
Popular characters that could fit this trailer are:

• Demifiend
• Dante or Vergil
• Bayonetta rep
• Octoling
• SMT V protagonist

Any other characters that could fit this trailer idea?

Frisk convinces both of them to just...leave.

The rest of the cast just stands there, baffled.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Real quick, do Chorus Kids and/or Dixie, or even Decidueye have figurines? Still adhering to Figure Theory for the last fighter (not counting a potential bonus if true) and I am confident Kazuya’s presentation will reference his figurine. It exists.

Decidueye has figures.

So does Dixie.

Couldn't find any (official) for Chorus Kids unfortunately.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Oh yeah.




Cacomallow is really, really, REALLY ****ing dead now.


Only 1 character left and all that. To the 2 Cacomallow stans left out there, it's over.

But isnt it sad that this has to be said this late into speculation?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Couldn't find any (official) for Chorus Kids unfortunately.

Does RH even have that much merchandise?

 

[Aerospherology]

Waluigi time?

The colors are very similar so far.
Line 1 and line 4
Line 2 and line 3

 

[Inferno7]

We still don’t have the successor of the Hero and Sephiroth trailers that recreate the final battle of WoL.
Popular characters that could fit this trailer are:

• Demifiend
• Dante or Vergil
• Bayonetta rep
• Octoling
• SMT V protagonist

Any other characters that could fit this trailer idea?

Galacta Knight and it ain't a contest

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Does RH even have that much merchandise?

A little bit.

Alongside the Rhythm Tengoku arcade release, some merch was made. Notably shirts, plush keychains, and onion pillows that were in a claw machine. pic.twitter.com/j9CqZeiXsW

— Occasional Rhythm Heaven Facts (@Tengokufacts) November 1, 2020

They were even featured in promo videos.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So Kazuya. Who expected yet another villain? Or hell, who expected the literal third choice when supposedly Heihachi and Jin are more "important" that you?

One slot to go, is this truly the end of the speculation cycle? For our mental health's sake, maybe it will be. I just hope Crash managed to sneak in before it all ends.

According to Max he was the protagonist of Tekken 1, but yeah, nobody expected him. Kinda funny how much our expectations have been twisted around.

 

[7NATOR]

Now, what characters would NOT fit into thirst theory?

I mean to be honest, Every character could technically be thirsted for

But perhaps Steve and the rest of the Minecraft gang are examples of Thirst theory not being infallible, since I'm not sure many people are checking them out.

 

[Shroob]

But isnt it sad that this has to be said this late into speculation?

I mean, it was said back in November 2019.


And every reveal since.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Frisk convinces both of them to just...leave.

The rest of the cast just stands there, baffled.

Spoiler: Undertale Spoilers Question Mark?

Then he reloads a save and brutally murders them.

 

[Technomage]

I mean to be honest, Every character could technically be thirsted for

But perhaps Steve and the rest of the Minecraft gang are examples of Thirst theory not being infallible, since I'm not sure many people are checking them out.

I don't know about Steve, Zombie, or Enderman, but I've seen quite a bit of Rule 34 of Alex.

 

[Shroob]

I mean to be honest, Every character could technically be thirsted for

But perhaps Steve and the rest of the Minecraft gang are examples of Thirst theory not being infallible, since I'm not sure many people are checking them out.

It's better if you didn't know.

 

[Prid]

But that can't be true because everyone here is mostly united that Mii Costumes deconfirm even when they don't, going so far as to say that 1st pary costumes are just built different and that returning 3rd party costumes are a nail in the coffin, which is exactly what happened when the Monster Hunter costumes showed up with Pyra/Mythra.

[...]

Regardless, this is a case of hoping I'm wrong and that you are right, because I love Monster Hunter!

I'm really glad this fanmade rule got debunked. It's safe again to bet on a Hunter rep

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Now, what characters would NOT fit into thirst theory?

I mean to be honest, Every character could technically be thirsted for

But perhaps Steve and the rest of the Minecraft gang are examples of Thirst theory not being infallible, since I'm not sure many people are checking them out.

I BETTER not see anyone thirsting for Dixie, Dee, Decidueye or the Chorus Kids ON GOD.

DO thirst for Elma though. I give you permission and even URGE you to thirst for Elma I mean uh WHAT

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

You could swap Octoling out for Off the Hook and it’d still fit

esp since 2’s final fest was Chaos (Dharkon) vs Order (Galeem)

…crap dude I actually unironically NEED Marina Hyperbombing Galeem and Pearl BOOOOYAAAAAHHHHHH-ing Dharkon

GIVE IT TO ME NOW.

Did you just say Chaos?

 

[zferolie]

Waluigi time?

View attachment 319422

Purple fits Shantae... oir Reimu,,,, i'm sold

 

[Ivander]

Just caught up with E3.

BRB, making an E.M.M.I. Smash thread.
View attachment 319421

I mean, they definitely look cool. Even if they resemble the likes of HAL and GLADOS a bit. But while I don't expect them to be playable, I could see them as an enemy if they bring back enemies to Smash, whether it'd be Adventure, a new mode or Smash Run. Bring Smash Run back plz.

 

[Shroob]

I BETTER not see anyone thirsting for Dixie, Dee, Decidueye or the Chorus Kids ON GOD.

DO thirst for Elma though. I give you permission and even URGE you to thirst for Elma I mean uh WHAT

Rie....

 

[SKX31]

Does anyone who plays or watches enough Tekken know if the janky looking animations are intentional? I feel like they are because of the limb system but I'm not entirely sure.

Like this timestamp in particular looks off to me but I think it's trying to be faithful.

100 % intentional - I don't play Tekken, but I've watched quite a lot.

Tekken's janky movement is done by crouch dashes (which is kinda related to wavedashing) and its related tech like the Korean Backdash:

As SMAASH! Puppy pointed out it is very common not just in competitive Tekken, but also in online play since such dashes are often versatile and can lead to a whole host of stuff. It's why Tekken games jitter a lot - the people who take Tekken as Serious Business and above level will position themselves just right relative to the opponent while also having all options (attack, block, more dashing, etc.) available to them.

However, people will commit mistakes, and that leads to another note. Fighting against this (and presumably fighting vs. a Kazuya player once he releases) will likely come down to watching mistakes and overextensions, and punishing those mistakes / forcing the Kazuya player on the defensive. If one keeps the game rather even and avoid getting steamrolled it will likely slow down the Devil Gene gravy train*, and if one manages to KO him relatively early one also avoids his Rage Drive / Art shenaningas (the red glow in the trailer).

*(I could be off here, we'll have to see on the 28th whether the Devil Gene thing is a steamroll or comeback. Kinda leaning steamroll since Rage is already a kinda comeback factor similiar to GO.)

According to Max he was the protagonist of Tekken 1, but yeah, nobody expected him. Kinda funny how much our expectations have been twisted around.

He was the protag in Tekken 1, yes, but 2 signals the point where Kazuya goes from "a Ryu-like character who kinda is a jerk going by that ending shot" to "Outright villain with devil powers".

A little bit.

That bit from E3 2016 begs the question then why Ninty didn't push for more RH on the Switch. Especially when they've touted the Joy-Cons' capabilities.

It feels weird when they could certainly have a RH game out on the Switch by this point... again, why have they just idled with it?