Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

unlike Sonic he don't chuckle

Knock knock it's knuckles.

EDIT: This doesn't deserve to be at the top of the page...

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, but hear me out; both Sora is videogame-first character owned by a non-videogame companie, making him eleigible for Smash.

Know who else fits this bill?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Meshima and Ruben are still on Twitter, and both were involved in posting the new parameters for Sephiroth and any changes to the character.

nothing of note aside from what you mentioned though, I'd presume

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, but hear me out; both Sora is videogame-first character owned by a non-videogame companie, making him eleigible for Smash.

Know who else fits this bill?

How stingy is Viacom compared to Disney?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How stingy is Viacom compared to Disney?

I don't remember hearing Disney being incredibly anal about copyright on youtube like Viacom is, but that doesn't really mean anything when Sega and Nintendo themselves were equally crap at that back then

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay, but hear me out; both Sora is videogame-first character owned by a non-videogame companie, making him eleigible for Smash.

Know who else fits this bill?

Actually, Tak is more debatabley a video game character than Sora since it seems he was always meant to have a cartoon about him. That being said, the idea that Sora isn't eligible for Smash because Disney is silly.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How stingy is Viacom compared to Disney?

It doesn't matter how stingy Viacom is in this case, Tak wasn't released in Japan.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Actually, Tak is more debatabley a video game character than Sora since it seems he was always meant to have a cartoon about him. That being said, the idea that Sora isn't eligible for Smash because Disney is silly.

Really? I don't remember hearing that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Really? I don't remember hearing that.

That's what I remember from the last conversation we had about Tak. There were arguments on both sides though since the show didn't run for very long and the games are the more notable of the two.

 

[Arcanir]

nothing of note aside from what you mentioned though, I'd presume

No, they haven't said anything on the matter and I haven't seen anything in their feed regarding it, so it's probably not among the dataminers. This 4chan rumor is trying to pass themselves off as someone who has inner knowledge of the development of the game.

 

[SharkLord]

Oh boy, another RTC copypaste writeup. I don't think it'd really in-depth enough to qualify as one of my full writeups, but seeing as the character it focuses on is a potential darkhorse I thought I might as well post it here as well.

Sakura Wars is an interesting case. It's a truly massive series in Japan, having a metric %$#@ton of adaptations. Animation, manga, stage shows, themed cafes, you name it. If there's a form of media, chances are Sakura Wars has an adaptation there. Good luck accessing them if you're an overseas fan, though. As such, Sakura's in a unique situation in terms of speculation. She's emblematic of the lopsided popularity situations; If Smash was Japan-only, she'd be a frontrunner, but in the West, she'd be lucky to squeeze into the double digits of likelihood.

But hey, at least she's in a better spot than, say, Takamaru, right?

But anyways. Now that we've addressed the elephant in the room, let's get down to business. Explain what this series is all about so you know her as more than that one speculation darkhorse who gets brought up a lot.

Sakura Wars is an interesting blend of genres. For starters, Sakura herself is a samurai who pilots a steampunk mech to fight off demons and is also a stage actress in her off hours. From that alone, you can tell it's a very Japanese sort of game. Sakura Wars itself is half-strategy RPG, half-dating sim, where you take the role of a commander for a branch of the Imperial Combat Revue, a defense force against the demons that disguises itself as a performance theater. The mood and emotions of your units influences their performance in battle; If you've been treating them well during the interactive segments, their stats will surge, and if they're feeling down their performance will be rather shaky.

Sakura is a country girl and newcomer to the Flower Division of the revue. Though she can be rather awkward and clumsy at times, she is a very skilled swordfighter. Wielding the ancestral Reiken-Arataka, Sakura is skilled enough to slice water droplets in two. While she can fight on-foot, in her home series she primarily pilots a Koubu, a steampunk mech powered by magic. If you want a mech fighter, you know where to look.

Sakura Wars released in 1996 and exceeded expectations, causing Sega to heavily invest in the series. Aside from the many adaptation I listed above, it got a sequel to similar acclaim, followed by a third that focused on a Paris branch, and a fourth game that was more of an epilogue than a full fourth game, bringing the two divisions together. Notably, the four games were able to be linked together, meaning the relationships started with your units could be carried over to the next game. A fifth game was released that focused on a American branch, and was actually translated, something that was planned from the original.

Unfortunately, the franchise had been on decline for a while, and so it was put on the backburner for a while. That being said, the franchise was still quite popular, winning two polls for "Franchise revival" and "Brand investment," even while the series was on a lull. The franchise also got top billing in the Project X Zone games, and was finally revived in 2019, starring a new Imperial Combat Revue and a new Sakura. I think it's safe to say that Japan still loves the franchise, and if Nintendo wants a Japan-appeal character, Sakura would be a pretty good pick. Only if they want a Japan-appeal character, though; The lopsided popularity issue means that's the only niche she can really fit.

For further information, watch this video. It explains things much better than I could, though it was made a while ago and doesn't go over the 2019 game.

 

[Froggy]

Forgive me if I sound rude, but I think I might have missed this trend you mentioned. Why do you think we're getting another Sega rep?

They're repeating the same companies from pass 1, Microsoft and Square-Enix so far. I assumed there is an additional fighter in this pass because they wanted to add an additional nintendo rep(MinMin)

Knuckles isn't edgy, he's just a bit easier to anger than most of the others (and that's not even a consistent thing really).

When Knuckles was introduced back in Sonic 3, he was meant to be the cool/edgey/badass character of the series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

When Knuckles was introduced back in Sonic 3, he was meant to be the cool/edgey/badass character of the series.

No, that was Sonic. Knuckles was meant to be a rival, yes, but there's nothing edgy about him or anything

 

[Froggy]

Even if we were getting a SEGA character for sure, there are quite a few "sensible" choices other than Shadow. Not that I don't like him but Tails and Dr. Eggman would be just as good choices.

Also, Sonic isn't the only franchise from SEGA. I can easily see Yakuza or Puyo Puyo getting a character in the second pass, for example.

Tails suffers from the same semi-clone issue that Shadow does. Dr Robtnic could work I guess, but not sure how much they want to lean in on the Villain angle for this pass. Can't imagine how puzzle game like Puyu Puyo could be implemented and I recall the Yakuza director saying he wouldn't **** him in Smash because he doesn't want him hitting women

we got another Microsoft and Square rep this pass just like last one. however that might also imply a second SNK rep which... yeah sorry I don't see that happening. Terry seems sufficient as he comes with content of like 85% of his competition.

I think the entire point of Terry was to add a rep from a company not in smash before, I am realizing now however that Microsoft actually didn't have rep before the pass so....idk

 

[Froggy]

No, that was Sonic. Knuckles was meant to be a rival, yes, but there's nothing edgy about him or anything

That's certainly not how I remember it. Knuckles was Wolverine-Vegeta-esque anti hero absolutely introduced to take advantage of the popularity of that archetype in the 90s.

Edit: Sorry double post

 

[Fuzzy Pickles!]

2021 is here and we are now in the final year of speculation. I guess for predictions I have Monster Hunter, Lloyd Irving, and uh, I don't know, Master Chief? Might as well give the "Blank Spot" some sort of answer. What will be interesting is to see what happens now that we don't have a big bandwagon like Geno around anymore. It's still hard to believe that over two years since Ultimate released, we are still waiting on three more characters. I'm not expecting anymore of my wishes to be granted, already grateful that they far exceeded my expectations from a decade ago, but doesn't hurt to say who I would pick in my fantasy world.

Bomberman: Multi-player icon in the sense that before four player local matches were a common thing, Bomberman was delivering on the TurboGrafx-16, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, and Sega Genesis. Plus bombs, bombs, and more bombs. If we can make a move set for Bowser Jr., we can definitely do so for the White Bomber.

Dixie Kong: Major protagonist of the Donkey Kong franchise. The franchise is more than iconic enough to get a fourth character and she's the best choice. So much can be done with her hair. Like Bowser Jr., they should definitely make her an unique character rather than settling for an echo.

Mimikyu: Gimmie The Ghost of Pikachu and dat "Let's Snuggle Forever" Final Smash.

I'd also be all for Bandana Dee, Chun-Li, Waluigi, Cranky Kong, any second F-Zero character (especially the badass Pico), Tails, Dr. Eggman, Tom Nook, Zero, and yes even Geno. I'll be pleasantly surprised if anyone I want gets in.

 

[MooMew64]

That's certainly not how I remember it. Knuckles was Wolverine-Vegeta-esque anti hero absolutely introduced to take advantage of the popularity of that archetype in the 90s.

Edit: Sorry double post

Knuckles wasn't an anti-hero, though, he was tricked by Eggman.

As for Shadow being the most likely Sonic rep...Given my thoughts on things not looking good for ATs at the moment and the Tails Mii Costume returning with the last pass, I honest to goodness think Eggman is a Sonic rep's only hope and even then I don't think it's super likely. IMHO, I think Puyo Puyo is the most likely candidate for Sega ATM.

 

[Technomage]

Knuckles wasn't an anti-hero, though, he was tricked by Eggman.

As for Shadow being the most likely Sonic rep...Given my thoughts on things not looking good for ATs at the moment and the Tails Mii Costume returning with the last pass, I honest to goodness think Eggman is a Sonic rep's only hope and even then I don't think it's super likely. IMHO, I think Puyo Puyo is the most likely candidate for Sega ATM.

But what if we were to add the Sonic Boom version of Knuckles, Tails, or Shadow?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yakuza director saying he wouldn't **** him in Smash because he doesn't want him hitting women

Context is important. He was saying this in reference to Tekken.

“There have been a lot of requests in recent years to add Kazuma Kiryu in a fighting game, be it Tekken, or others ... What do you think? Would you like to make a fighting game based on the Yakuza series?”

“We do get this request a lot. Of course there are exceptions, but fighting games generally have female characters, and personally I don’t really want to see Kiryu beating up women.”

However he has had an interview where he was asked specifically about Smash.


IGN: SEGA has put Sonic, Bayonetta and Joker in Super Smash Bros. Any chance Kiryu will make an appearance? Majima would make a great echo fighter.

Nagoshi: I don't think (Smash Bros director Masahiro) Sakurai is interested, haha. If he asked I’d say yes, but I don't think he wants them!

One publication reported “Kiryu from Yakuza reportedly disconfirmed for Smash Bros.” Or something like that, provided the quote completely out of context, and now we’re stuck with this weird disconnect between what was actually said and what the Smash community thinks he said.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But what if we were to add the Sonic Boom version of Knuckles, Tails, or Shadow?

Please don't expect that out of Masahiro "won't add Pac-Man if he had to use the Ghostly Adventures version" Sakurai.

 

[Technomage]

Please don't expect that out of Masahiro "won't add Pac-Man if he had to use the Ghostly Adventures version" Sakurai.

Yeah, I remember that Sakurai said that about Pac's GA design, but I don't remember any other case of Sakurai hating an alternative character design.

 

[MooMew64]

But what if we were to add the Sonic Boom version of Knuckles, Tails, or Shadow?

They can add Boom Knuckles but only if his entire reveal trailer is this.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

They can add Boom Knuckles but only if his entire reveal trailer is this.

Aw, I was expecting the exploding duck toys scene or even the one where “MEME... Approved!” Spawned from

 

[Deleted member]

They can add Boom Knuckles but only if his entire reveal trailer is this.

I expected an infinite jump joke but this was a pleasant surprise.

 

[SharkLord]

Aw, I was expecting the exploding duck toys scene or even the one where “MEME... Approved!” Spawned from

I was expecting the Knuckles Is A Feminist clip but this works too

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's certainly not how I remember it. Knuckles was Wolverine-Vegeta-esque anti hero absolutely introduced to take advantage of the popularity of that archetype in the 90s.

Edit: Sorry double post

The only similarity is the two being loners, but Wolverine's doing that for edgy reasons whereas Knuckles has a life of solitude due to his job, he didn't butt heads with Sonic because he's a **** but because Eggman tricked him

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And apparently Knuckles is also an idiot because despite being tricked by Eggman, he continued to fall for his tricks.

Seriously you have to be one if you continue to believe the bad guy especially finding out for who they really are.

 

[7NATOR]

Knuckles wasn't meant to be Stupid, but he was meant to be Gullible.

Knuckles is actually pretty Smart when it comes to Ancient History and tactics and stuff like that. He never would have shattered the Master Emerald in SA2 (So Eggman can't get it) if he wasn't Smart

And even in Forces, he shows he can lead an entire Revolutionary Army against the oppressively nature of Eggman

This is probably fake, but have this been discussed here?

/v/ - >tantan >pickel >edge >bedlam >sorrow >dorako - Video Games - 4chan

>tantan >pickel >edge >bedlam >sorrow >dorako - "/v/ - Video Games" is 4chan's imageboard dedicated to the discussion of PC and console video games.

boards.4channel.org

I mean, there's no reason to be so sneaky with datamining, so yeah, looks very fake. Interesting, nonetheless.

I'm not trying to say this leak is real

However when Banjo's Codename leaked on 4chan (along with Hero and Banjo being leaked on 4chan before their reveal), their codename was not datamined. I'm talking about the Catleaker

There was no way the Cat Leaker could know Buddy was Banjo's Codename through Datamining the Current patch at the time, so he must have gotten his Info somewhere else

Knuckles wasn't an anti-hero, though, he was tricked by Eggman.

As for Shadow being the most likely Sonic rep...Given my thoughts on things not looking good for ATs at the moment and the Tails Mii Costume returning with the last pass, I honest to goodness think Eggman is a Sonic rep's only hope and even then I don't think it's super likely. IMHO, I think Puyo Puyo is the most likely candidate for Sega ATM.

Looking at this, I'm very willing to have a Tails Vs Eggman Vs Shadow Vs Knuckles Vs Arle Vs Sakura Vs Kiryu Vs Other sega characters debate war

You think Arle is the most likely and Eggman is most likely if there were another Sonic rep, I think Shadow is the most likely, and there are others that vouch for Sakura, Vouch for Tails, perhaps few that vouch for Knuckles, etc

It would be interesting debating, with all the arguments and stuff (that are constructive)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Knuckles wasn't meant to be Stupid, but he was meant to be Gullible.

But to keep continuing to believe Eggman despite knowing him for who he is afterwards?

Yeah I'd say he's stupid on his part...Who would continue to believe someone after finding out they're the bad guy?

 

[Lyncario]

But to keep continuing to believe Eggman despite knowing him for who he is afterwards?

Yeah I'd say he's stupid on his part...Who would continue to believe someone after finding out they're the bad guy?

Pretty sure he only does that in Sonic 3, and never again in mainline.

 

[Technomage]

Pretty sure he only does that in Sonic 3, and never again in mainline.

Actually, that also happened in Sonic Adventure 1.

 

[Perkilator]

Actually, that also happened in Sonic Adventure 1.

And in Advance 2.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yep definitely an idiot then. Lol.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've also heard the argument that Shadow wasn't really supposed to be all that edgy since after some character development, he gets off of his high horse and goes on to do heroic things for unambiguously heroic reasons from then on. It's just that Shadow the Hedgehog threw out all of that and it's unfortunately the version of the character that stuck after Sonic 06.

...I recall the Yakuza director saying he wouldn't **** him in Smash because he doesn't want him hitting women

I dunno what word you meant to use here, but my brain has inserted something really funny...And really weird given the implications.

But to keep continuing to believe Eggman despite knowing him for who he is afterwards?

Yeah I'd say he's stupid on his part...Who would continue to believe someone after finding out they're the bad guy?

I believe it's the case of the story getting retold over and over, and in cannon, it only happened once.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

But what if we were to add the Sonic Boom version of Knuckles, Tails, or Shadow?

Unfortunately, they've been disqualified from the competition due to suspicious physical changes.

 

[Ivander]

Pretty sure he only does that in Sonic 3, and never again in mainline.

Actually, that also happened in Sonic Adventure 1.

It also happens in Sonic X, but I believe at some point, Knuckles thinks ahead and manages to trick Eggman beforehand.

 

[Froggy]

I dunno what word you meant to use here, but my brain has inserted something really funny...And really weird given the implications.

All I wrote was put. I don't why it was bleeped out lol.

And apparently both Shadow and Knuckles are assist trophies, I know some people will disregard that but I won't. Don't think they're getting added. I don't think Tails being added is farfetched however.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sonic X explains the oddity. He actually believes Eggman has some good inside of him and is constantly willing to give him a chance. He's not entirely wrong, as Eggman is actually a good guy overall in the same arc, constantly coming to Team Sonic's aid over and over. He pretends to play the neutral side for a while, but overall is on the side of good. He also has helped out the good guys in Adventure 1 and 2 during the final stories(he's not remotely a villain in Heroes either, and Shadow and 06 are oddities where he kind of takes the place of the villain in certain arcs, but in the final stories, he's once again part of the good team).

Albeit, Sonic X isn't canon, but this would be a perfect thing to apply to Knuckles. Also, keep in mind he was basically outside of society a lot in order to guard the Master Emerald. He barely has any social connections in canon. He's gullible because he doesn't have the experience to have actual street smarts. He still clashes with Sonic in many cases and doesn't get his point from time to time due to this. Besides that, considering Eggman has helped the good guys beforehand, the only real time it was odd was in Adventure 1 since he never did a good act beforehand to make Knuckles actually think he might have some good in him. At least an act he can see. Later on, he keeps doing good things near the end, and the Echidna can easily see this. Constantly seeing Eggman perform good acts means Knuckles overall could see the potential for good in him. So it would be a good idea to apply this character trait as is, as it not only often makes sense for him to think that way, it makes him look a lot less stupid and instead a person with a good heart.

I won't deny it does get tiring, though. But only cause there's little reason given onscreeen or the characterization to back it up.

On another note, Knuckles is meant to be a parallel to Piccolo, not Vegeta. He has some similar abilities to Sonic, but also started off as a technical villain who overall became a good guy. In addition, the whole egg thing is another parallel. Them both being Guardians of something keeps it going further.

Shadow is the Vegeta of the group. Though Gerald might not be meant to be a remote parallel to Bardock beyond being dead at the beginning of the stories at best. Eggman's the neat one, as he doesn't have an actual proper parallel. He's no Frieza. He's intentionally a lot more goofy at times, but also dead serious. A lot of the more straight villains in DB really aren't applied to Sonic. The closest you can get is Cell with the Metal Sonic clones, and they don't actually evolve either. The Chaos Emeralds are literally the Seven Dragon Balls, and Silver is Trunks. Tails is pretty clearly Krillin, and Amy is Chi Chi. Bulma could be considered Rouge, but that's more of a stretch in personalities. She's smart, but she's not a scientist. A lot of DB is not applied, really. Just a small snippet at best.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I remember reading Two Evil Scientists once upon a time and it proposed the idea that Knuckles isn't stupid, he's just so honest that he has a hard time comprehending that people would lie to him.
Then Boom happened and solidified him being dumber than a bag of hammers.

 

[N3ON]

I know that Capcom has some of the fiercest competition for a spot, but I never thought I would see Phoenix grouped with Geno and KOS-MOS.

I know, right. And yet, there he is.

Nintendo association isn’t the prevailing force it was once thought to be, and so expectation has declined for Amaterasu and Viewtiful Joe. Had it not, I’d include them as well.