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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Froggy

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How about Sarah Kerrigan? I know Starcraft is massive in Korea.
Is StarCraft still popular anywhere else? Real time strategy games have pretty much been replaced by MOBAs at this point.

As for Sol Bad Guy. I am leaning towards us not get another Fighting game character for this pass. I think Nintendo thinks MinMin filled that slot for this pass. That might seem kinda silly, but they did release the Heihachi mii costume along side her, so they do seem to view her as a proper fighting game rep. Or at least the most proper fighting game rep for this pass.
 

Gengar84

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Messages
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Is StarCraft still popular anywhere else? Real time strategy games have pretty much been replaced by MOBAs at this point.

As for Sol Bad Guy. I am leaning towards us not get another Fighting game character for this pass. I think Nintendo thinks MinMin filled that slot for this pass. That might seem kinda silly, but they did release the Heihachi mii costume along side her, so they do seem to view her as a proper fighting game rep. Or at least the most proper fighting game rep for this pass.
I’m not really sure but I don’t think a game has to be currently popular to be considered for Smash as long as they have a legacy and importance in gaming history. Platformers aren’t as big as they once were but Banjo was able to make it and a lot of people expect Crash. We also got two CastleVania characters and that series hasn’t really done much in recent years.
 

Prid

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Explaining why a Monster Hunter rep makes sense for Nintendo
I made a video weaving together facts, leaks and animations to tell the unseen warfare tale of Sony, Nintendo and the Monster Hunter franchise. With Nintendo's colossal advantage of currently being the exclusive Monster Hunter tamer, I can see them leveraging their position to push for a MH rep in Smash.

This theory only attempts to explain why a Monster Hunter rep makes sense in Smash given the current course of events, not that it will happen.


TL;DR

- Animated GIF (watch video above for context/sources)

- Comic Strip:



FAQ

Why is the leak in the video credible?

  • While not all of it may be true, the leak does have some very specific facts that came true, for instance the new Switch title being all about verticality (said back in 2016), and that's exactly the theme of MH:Rise and exactly why it's called Rise. [source]
Didn't the Monster Hunter Mii costumes + Spirit event deconfirm a MH rep?
  • While post-launch Spirits and Mii costumes do greatly decrease the chances of those franchises being repped as DLC, I believe a Monster Hunter rep still might have a chance despite the recent MH Mii costumes and Spirit event, mainly due to COVID coming and messing up plans.
  • In short, Sakurai and his team need a predictable schedule to work with and frequent meetings with 3rd party publishers for their approval, but these plans were thrown off when COVID hit and meetings were canceled, yet Smash development continued soon after. They might've managed to work out a plan, but that plan couldn't rely on MH:Rise's shaky release date, as that game's development was suspended for a month and had its release date postponed. That's why I believe a MH rep still has a chance (for all the reasons stated in the video), because they might've erred on the side of caution and placed that DLC in a later slot to give MH:Rise ample time to complete its development while predictably developing other DLC fighters (2 of which were 1st party) -- that is, if an MH rep is coming. But in that scenario, it makes sense in the meantime to release a bunch of (recycled) Mii costumes + a Spirit event to celebrate MH:Rise's launch (as it's a timed Nintendo exclusive).
  • Longer answer (with sources).
 

Mushroomguy12

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I used to always think it'd be neat to have an old-style (NON SP) GBA as a stage in Smash with the L AND R buttons acting as springboards you could jump off of and having footage of GBA games play on the screen after a cartridge falls into the slot, damaging anyone standing in the way.
I always thought some of the coolest battle stages in Mario Kart were those based off actual consoles.

1623427071126.png
1623427058057.png


I'd be intrigued to see something like that in Smash.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Messages
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Positive this was already said, but E3 starts tomorrow.

Ladies, gentlemen, and everybody in between; hold onto your butts, this is gonna be a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-inhales-oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong Friday.

May the odds be ever in your favor.
 
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Groose

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So I'm understanding there's some sort of glitch theory suggesting a fighter like Ice Climbers or Rosalina & Luma or something?

Ehhhh just for funsies I'll throw my picks into the ring:

Dixie & Kiddy from DKC3. Especially if a new Donkey Kong game is coming and by SOME WEIRD CHANCE Kiddy happens to be in it. Also happens to line up with Pink Color Theory

Some weird Pokemon combo. Plusle/Minun, Male and Female Meowstic, etc. I've heard weirder ideas. Let's get weird, maybe even a trainer/Pokemon Combo: Misty chuckin Starmie around, Morty with Gastly, Maylene with Meditite floating around her, Marlon with Jellicent, we can get wild with that idea.

Ayumi Tachibana and Main Hero Detective Guy from Famicom Detective Club: Working together to solve mysteries AND to beat up Pikachu and Daisy.

Kuff n Klout from DKC3. Just for the hell of it.

Mighty and Ray from Sonic Mania (please be Mighty and Ray and not Classic Sonic and Tails please please please, no more Classic Sonic for a while)

Cream the Rabbit with Cheese the Chao (great left field pick. Throw in a Chao Garden stage to soften the rage)

Let's go nuts for this last one: Ellie the Elephant with Parry the Parallel Bird hovering around her.
Now, honestly, I don’t really see any “duo” characters as especially likely. If the ICs are glitching because they’re working on a similar character, I’d expect it to be because of a specific move that’s similar or a character that uses a similar frame, not a duo.

if I were to entertain the thought, though…

I’ve seen a few people talking about Kiddy/Dixie and Plusle/Minun. I think the former duo wouldn’t happen because Kiddy is pretty darn unpopular, and the latter duo won’t happen because they’re too irrelevant.

Personally, my brain jumps to the Chorus Kids. Isn’t it pretty well established they were experimented on back during Smash 4? They’d be a similar shape/scale to the ICs, and they have been adding characters who they’ve been considering for awhile this pass…
 

Opossum

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I haven't followed this glitch thing (since predicting characters based on glitches literally never works out lmao), but like...if the Ice Climbers have a weird glitch, all that means is it's a day ending in the letter Y.
 

Mushroomguy12

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🤷‍♂️

1623427894478.png


I dunno, maybe it's an issue with your computer/browser/wifi or there's just some international differences on Youtube/Smashboards we don't know about. (Not really a technician in that field). I've tried looking on multiple browsers and my phone, so I'm not positive what the problem is.

I'd replace it with a different video, but I can't really guarantee that one would work for you either.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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IMO I'm pretty confident the Monster Hunter Mii Costumes being for advertising Monster Hunter Rise 100% deconfirm that character. Other Capcom characters aside from Arthur on the other hand? I'm unsure about.
In other words...
5cxqax.jpg
 

Swamp Sensei

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I thought that part of glitch theory means the glitch is new.

This glitch sounds very old and is probably just a consequence of the ICs being borked.
 

Cosmic77

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Glitches have a history of having absolutely nothing to do with the next DLC character. Remember about a year ago when we were all using Bayonetta to figure out who the ARMS character would be? Everyone thought we'd get Min Min or Twintelle because of the legs.

We did end up getting Min Min, but did she use Bayonetta as a base? Nope. She came from Captain Falcon, a character who both punches and kicks his opponents, unlike Bayo.
 

MattX20

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I don't expect a double reveal unless one of these things happen:

1. Both fighters drop in the next couple weeks.
2. They announce more DLC beyond FP2.
3. One of the fighters is so controversial they had to announce it alongside a massive crowd pleaser in order to minimize the backlash.

Also, I don't expect another multi-character fighter, because the most recent fighter was also one and Sakurai even mentioned how much of a pain the Ice Climbers were to implement in Pyra/Mythra's Sakurai Presents. Also, according to some people that glitch has been around for a year, so it doesn't mean anything in terms of Glitch Theory unless that character was delayed. I don't believe in Glitch Theory.
You're forgetting that they could do a double reveal because they want Ultimat to end on the best note it possibly can. It's highly unlikely we're getting another Pokemon or FE rep, so even if they choose someone like Ayumi Tachibana, she'd be more of a "meh" pick at worst for most rather than WORST CHARACTER EVER like Byleth was. I doubt Nintendo would want another backlash akin to that with months of waiting for a lesser desired character. That, and FP10 is practically guaranteed to be a June release so people would naturally want to know the last one since FP11 at the latest is a September release.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Glitches have a history of having absolutely nothing to do with the next DLC character. Remember about a year ago when we were all using Bayonetta to figure out who the ARMS character would be? Everyone thought we'd get Min Min or Twintelle because of the legs.

We did end up getting Min Min, but did she use Bayonetta as a base? Nope. She came from Captain Falcon, a character who both punches and kicks his opponents, unlike Bayo.
To be fair; Min Min does have Bayonetta-like animations

like also remember the Ness glitch? Steve I’m sure was created wholly from scratch; yet the presentation said his Flint move had properties similar to Ness’s PK Fire

in other words it’s not the base that has the glitch but rather something the new character borrows? I guess? That’s my theory
 

SKX31

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I think something missing from this pass is a fighter who is popular in places outsides of US & Japan, much like Terry was in Fighters Pass 1. I don't know if it'll be the next char but I think something like a League of Legends Rep is pretty likely at this point.
How about Sarah Kerrigan? I know Starcraft is massive in Korea.
It's difficult to judge how likely or unlikely it is, but certainly possibile. I've been talking a lot about Nintendo's activities outside of the major regions, and to summarize:

* On one hand Nintendo's generally been very interested in regions outside of JP / NA / EU - I mean, Nintendo's official presence in China / Korea dates back to the early-mid 2000s just to name a couple examples. Part of the reason why is general business interest - after all, if Nintendo consoles are being imported or even pirated on a large enough scale, then Nintendo would at least want an official presence there too. This is the case not just with those two, but also with other regions like LatAm (which Nintendo relatively recently combined with NA to form the "Americas" region in their data) and SEA.

* On the other hand, the three main regions (JP / Americas / EU) constitute ca. 87 - 90 % of Nintendo's video game income, and expansion into other regions is not always a straightforward matter. Furukawa noted one of the key reasons is that they've built up their fanbases over the course of 20-30+ years in the major regions - and while consoles are imported elsewhere (all over the globe) consoles are not mainstream in the "minor" regions. Nintendo of Korea came pretty damn close to shutting down during the Wii U years, and Nintendo didn't officially re-enter countries like Brazil until last year after years of absence (due to tax reasons).
Yes, LoL and StarCraft would be two of the primary go-tos in this scenario, but there's also the question of if Nintendo thinks :ultsteve: covers that well enough or not; since Minecraft is globally recognized and could technically fill that role too. It's difficult to call whether Steve actually does or not though since Minecraft's popularity is very evenly spread globally. There's no particular region I can think of where Minecraft is so popular it becomes centralizing - unlike LoL and StarCraft who have held the position of "Undisputed King" in Korea.

Now I don't think that expansion would be the primary reason for a Smash invitation: the only corp I can think of where Nintendo could potentially pull that would be Tencent due to the fact that Tencent both own Riot and distributes the Switch in China, and even then we don't know if they discussed that or how long they did so.

Both LoL and StarCraft have other, more salient reasons for inclusions, and that's their respective significant impact on the computer gaming sphere, both of them being long-runners and both of them having a very strong influence on games that followed whether on computer or console.
 
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SNEKeater

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Kinda random but (Castlevania season 4 spoilers):


YESSSSSS they better go with long hair Richter
 
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Twilord

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I don't expect a double reveal unless one of these things happen:

1. Both fighters drop in the next couple weeks.
2. They announce more DLC beyond FP2.
3. One of the fighters is so controversial they had to announce it alongside a massive crowd pleaser in order to minimize the backlash.

May I suggest another possibility?

The condition that they're both much more epic as a double reveal, for example:

  • Crash & Spyro
  • A Pokémon & a Digimon
  • A Pokémon & a Yokai
 

3BitSaurus

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Is StarCraft still popular anywhere else? Real time strategy games have pretty much been replaced by MOBAs at this point.
Maybe in terms of being in the front of the esports scene, but last I checked, StarCraft still had a sizable presence in Europe and Korea. I'm not too familiar with the series though, so maybe someonelike SKX31 SKX31 would be more apt to comment on that.

Regardless, I'd argue that if a franchise has enough history, that's a point in its favor regardless of where it stands now.
 

MarioRaccoon

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Its good for us I think that we are 4 days away from E3 and no solid leaks regarding Smash. Last E3, 2019, we already had solid evidence of who CP2 and 3 was (Hero because of codename leak and Banjo by Shinobi post)

Being honest, its very hard to narrow which character is getting in, maybe if we believe that the fire tournament was held for a year and the means we are no getting more fighters that uses fire in at least on of its specials. That discards some fighters like Cinderance (or any fire Pokémon), Scorpion, Ryu Hayabusa, anyone that uses fire as magic, etc. But still, there are lots of possible options left.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Its good for us I think that we are 4 days away from E3 and no solid leaks regarding Smash. Last E3, 2019, we already had solid evidence of who CP2 and 3 was (Hero because of codename leak and Banjo by Shinobi post)

Being honest, its very hard to narrow which character is getting in, maybe if we believe that the fire tournament was held for a year and the means we are no getting more fighters that uses fire in at least on of its specials. That discards some fighters like Cinderance (or any fire Pokémon), Scorpion, Ryu Hayabusa, any fighter that uses fire as magic, etc. But still, there are lots of possible options left.
Hayabusa uses fire skills? This is news to me

yes I’ve never played a Ninja Gaiden game and atm don’t want to
 

Froggy

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I’m not really sure but I don’t think a game has to be currently popular to be considered for Smash as long as they have a legacy and importance in gaming history. Platformers aren’t as big as they once were but Banjo was able to make it and a lot of people expect Crash. We also got two CastleVania characters and that series hasn’t really done much in recent years.
I might be creating arbitrary explanations at this point. But I believe the Banjo situation was unique in that he is an former first party character, and as such got a pass. Furthermore forgetting how beloved Banjo is among Nintendo fans, Starcraft being formerly popular in periphery nation doesn't hold the same weight as it would in the US.

Similarly the Belmonts were not DLC, so thier situation is different.
 

ForsakenM

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Explaining why a Monster Hunter rep makes sense for Nintendo
I made a video weaving together facts, leaks and animations to tell the unseen warfare tale of Sony, Nintendo and the Monster Hunter franchise. With Nintendo's colossal advantage of currently being the exclusive Monster Hunter tamer, I can see them leveraging their position to push for a MH rep in Smash.

This theory only attempts to explain why a Monster Hunter rep makes sense in Smash given the current course of events, not that it will happen.


TL;DR

- Animated GIF (watch video above for context/sources)

- Comic Strip:



FAQ

Why is the leak in the video credible?

  • While not all of it may be true, the leak does have some very specific facts that came true, for instance the new Switch title being all about verticality (said back in 2016), and that's exactly the theme of MH:Rise and exactly why it's called Rise. [source]
Didn't the Monster Hunter Mii costumes + Spirit event deconfirm a MH rep?
  • While post-launch Spirits and Mii costumes do greatly decrease the chances of those franchises being repped as DLC, I believe a Monster Hunter rep still might have a chance despite the recent MH Mii costumes and Spirit event, mainly due to COVID coming and messing up plans.
  • In short, Sakurai and his team need a predictable schedule to work with and frequent meetings with 3rd party publishers for their approval, but these plans were thrown off when COVID hit and meetings were canceled, yet Smash development continued soon after. They might've managed to work out a plan, but that plan couldn't rely on MH:Rise's shaky release date, as that game's development was suspended for a month and had its release date postponed. That's why I believe a MH rep still has a chance (for all the reasons stated in the video), because they might've erred on the side of caution and placed that DLC in a later slot to give MH:Rise ample time to complete its development while predictably developing other DLC fighters (2 of which were 1st party) -- that is, if an MH rep is coming. But in that scenario, it makes sense in the meantime to release a bunch of (recycled) Mii costumes + a Spirit event to celebrate MH:Rise's launch (as it's a timed Nintendo exclusive).
  • Longer answer (with sources).
But that can't be true because everyone here is mostly united that Mii Costumes deconfirm even when they don't, going so far as to say that 1st pary costumes are just built different and that returning 3rd party costumes are a nail in the coffin, which is exactly what happened when the Monster Hunter costumes showed up with Pyra/Mythra.

More importantly, they got the brand new Felyne hat in addition to the Spirit Event you mentioned, and Sakurai even said this was to celebrate Monster Hunter Rise's release, which is not something that is normally acknowledged in a presentation. Add this in with how we got some MH music and Rathalos as both a boss and an AT in base game, coupled with the rumors about MH and Byleth and it really just seems like MH just isn't happening.

You don't release both recycled and new content for MH in Smash as well as a Spirit Event, say it's to celebrate Rise, and then release MH ass playable afterwards: it would have been scheduled under contract negotiations for it to follow MH as a character, and thus you would simply wait and release it after all together or have MH ready to polish up and release in advance to time it as close as possible ti Rise's launch.

Even without using logic and digging deeper into it, this thread itself thinks it's not happening, and for once I tend to agree. Though, I did say as far back as people here on Smashboards started pushing MH because 'New Game On Switch = Character In Smash' that it wasn't likely at all due to how the monsters rep the series, not the hunter, and how they already got content in the base game so clearly some sort of attempt was made but it didn't happen.

Regardless, this is a case of hoping I'm wrong and that you are right, because I love Monster Hunter! :)
 

Iko MattOrr

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So there's a glitch suggesting that they might be working on a duo character?

Mighty and Ray from Sonic Mania (please be Mighty and Ray and not Classic Sonic and Tails please please please, no more Classic Sonic for a while)

Cream the Rabbit with Cheese the Chao (great left field pick. Throw in a Chao Garden stage to soften the rage)
Commenting the Sonic picks because why not:

I would be happy with Sonic & Tails as a duo character, honestly... classic or modern doesn't make much difference for me, though since modern is already in the game maybe the duo being in with their classic design would be the only possible option; they had a decent amount of tag moves in several games, and while Super Sonic is the perfect final smash for Sonic, it would be cool if Sonic & Tails would jump aboard the Tornado and shoot the opponents on the stage.
Mighty & Ray are... fine I guess... but I'd rather them be Sonic and Tails, Mighty and Ray are still too little developed as characters and too much obscure despite being in Mania.

Cream the Rabbit, I like the character but I doubt she would fit a fighting game (I know, Sonic Battle, but still). She's not really a fighter at all (even canon-wise, she hates violence); I know that there are non-fighters in the game already, but in Cream's case, most of her attacks would be about launching Cheese at the opponents, I doubt you could make a creative moveset out of just that (she's definitely more suited for platforming than fighting). Unless they make her the equivalent of Animal Crossing's "Villager" to Chao Garden and make her fight using Chao Garden elements, like planting seeds and making trees grow under the opponents (like Villager) or uhmm throw fruits? Cheese plays the toy trumpet VERY loud? A beach ball as a bullet? I don't know, but now that I think, that minigame from the Tiny Chao Garden of Sonic Advance 2 would be a cute up-special (I mean down special, since it doesn't recover);

but doubt they would even consider Cream when Tails, Knuckles, Eggman and others are still not in the game.
As for the stage, Chao Gardens are cool and all, but Music Plant or riot (the only other accettable option is Ice Paradise).

But assuming that the next fighter is a duo for real, does it mean that Adeleine & Ribbon have a chance again? I really doubt it but if it turns out to be the case, I'm obligated to get game+dlc regardless of my opinion on it, even just to say thank you.
 
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Gengar84

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I might be creating arbitrary explanations at this point. But I believe the Banjo situation was unique in that he is an former first party character, and as such got a pass. Furthermore forgetting how beloved Banjo is among Nintendo fans, Starcraft being formerly popular in periphery nation doesn't hold the same weight as it would in the US.

Similarly the Belmonts were not DLC, so thier situation is different.
Yeah we can never really know for sure what Sakurai’s and Nintendo’s criteria for Smash are so you could be right. If it helps, Starcraft actually has some history with Nintendo with Starcraft 64.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Is StarCraft still popular anywhere else? Real time strategy games have pretty much been replaced by MOBAs at this point.

As for Sol Bad Guy. I am leaning towards us not get another Fighting game character for this pass. I think Nintendo thinks MinMin filled that slot for this pass. That might seem kinda silly, but they did release the Heihachi mii costume along side her, so they do seem to view her as a proper fighting game rep. Or at least the most proper fighting game rep for this pass.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't care about how many reps a genre gets considering how the pass has shaped out
 

ForsakenM

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Wait wait wait wait wait, hold the phone here.

Upon reflection of MCW 9, I just remembered we got Arthur as a costume, and that we got all Capcom costumes with Pyra/Mythra. We got two new ones, and yet they were all Capcom, and this is the FIRST time in Ultimate that we got NEW Capcom costumes...the rest were returning ones...

While it's entirely possible that, with Capcom's catalog of characters, they could easily still get a new character like Dante or Chun Li or Amaterasu or some **** and get a buttload of new costumes with them, I find it interesting that Capcom is currently much like other companies that have yet to get a character in the DLC but got costumes like Ubisoft and Bethesda, We also have that RE Spirit event that really guts the chances for a character. Merhaps Capcom just isn't getting another character this game?

Like I said, they have plenty more to pull from, but I find it interesting the situation it seems Capcom could be in.

Any other major Spirit events or anything else in Smash tied to Capcom that I'm not thinking of right now?
 
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spicynun

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Wait wait wait wait wait, hold the phone here.

Upon reflection of MCW 9, I just remembered we got Arthur as a costume, and that we got all Capcom costumes with Pyra/Mythra. We got two new ones, and yet they were all Capcom, and this is the FIRST time in Ultimate that we got NEW Capcom costumes...the rest were returning ones...

While it's entirely possible that, with Capcom's catalog of characters, they could easily still get a new character like Dante or Chun Li or Amaterasu or some **** and get a buttload of new costumes with them, I find it interesting that Capcom is currently much like other companies that have yet to get a character in the DLC but got costumes like Ubisoft and Bethesda, We also have that RE Spirit event that really guts the chances for a character. Merhaps Capcom just isn't getting another character this game?

Like I said, they have plenty more to pull from, but I find it interesting the situation it seems Capcom could be in.

Any other major Spirit events or anything else in Smash tied to Capcom that I'm not thinking of right now?
Capcom getting a character is a coinflip for me at this point. They have clearly still supported Smash post launch with the RE spirit event which is also what Square did with the Octopath and Mana spirit events and Square ended up getting two characters. On the other hand, like you said the Capcom costumes all returned with a couple new without a Capcom character, but Sakurai seemed to make a point that they were timed to release with MH Rise and the new GnG so it could easily just have been a promotional timing choice rather than a "Lets get all the Capcom stuff out of the way". I want to believe because most of my most wanteds left are Capcom but I can see it going either way.
 

volbound1700

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Yeah we can never really know for sure what Sakurai’s and Nintendo’s criteria for Smash are so you could be right. If it helps, Starcraft actually has some history with Nintendo with Starcraft 64.
I don't see Starcraft happening but it is a MASSIVE franchise, it is just not known in console circles. For a long time, it was the most popular game in South Korea and there was massive pro-leagues for it. I also think it did fairly well in Japan.

There are iconic characters like Jim Raynor, Zeratul, or Sarah Kerrigan/Queen of Blades that could fit in a Smash like setting.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Hero
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Sep 22, 2012
Messages
9,599
Kinda random but (Castlevania season 4 spoilers):


YESSSSSS they better go with long hair Richter
Huh, they're really messing with the timeline then. I guess this means no Simon?

I would've guessed they're fast-tracking Richter so they can adapt Symphony of the Night sooner, but there was that recent interview with the writer who said he doesn't see a point in adapting that game so I'm not sure.
 
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