Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[volbound1700]

Relaxalax

I do like that his channel doesn't spam videos out every week about Smash. Seems like a legit and fun channel.

 

[Shroob]

I do like that his channel doesn't spam videos out every week about Smash. Seems like a legit and fun channel.

Except the part where he was allegedly abusive to his girlfriend from what I remember.

 

[Ivander]

Provide me one Smash Ballot Poll anywhere that had Joker in their top 10 or top 15 most wanted characters for Smash prior to his release? Provide me with a major Smash Youtube channel that talked about him and pushed for him in Smash?

First off, Relaxalax and Alpharad, and two, Castlevania was a wanted series for Smash Bros and Alucard was a highly requested character, neither he nor Simon and Richter never really reached top 10s or 15s in many "Top 10s or 20s", yet people were excited as heck for Castlevania in Smash like SomecallmeJohnny.

Just because a character or series does not get high in fan polls doesn't mean they aren't requested or lowly wanted.

 

[NotGenerico]

Provide me one Smash Ballot Poll anywhere that had Joker in their top 10 or top 15 most wanted characters for Smash prior to his release? Provide me with a major Smash Youtube channel that talked about him and pushed for him in Smash?

I'd say Alpharad is pretty major.

 

[TriggerX]

Let me say this y'all
I think that saying that you NEED to be on a Nintendo console at least once makes a character a viable Smash candidate is a fan-rule.
It certainly helps imo, but I don't think you NEED it.

What about you guys?
Though I guess you could argue about the opposite; for instance, I heard that a DMC dev said Dante can't be considered or something until DMC games get on the Switch, though this one I wouldn't take as seriously because Dante may or may not happen, and that according to this video:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Sakurai waited until Joker made a Nintendo appearance for him to try to get him in Smash, succeeding in this subsequent attempt.

While it is a fan rule, I do believe it is one that holds some truth to it. Even Sakurai has mentioned it at least once, or emphasized a character's ties to nintendo.

Even if it is an absolute requirement for a character, in the end it doesn't matter too much. If a character didn't make an appearance on a nintendo console they will just create one for the reveal. Cloud did get his ff7 ported to the wii. Joker got whatever Persona game.

This being the case, I do believe Master Chief has a chance, but there will be some sort of Halo game released for the switch along side him. Or at least news of one.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok so uh I found that IC glitch, it’s been in since 2020

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I always like these responses to glitches like how training mode ****ed up shielding or something and people only realized it a year later. Like, if people didn't find out until that long later, it wasn't that big of deal.

While it is a fan rule, I do believe it is one that holds some truth to it. Even Sakurai has mentioned it at least once, or emphasized a character's ties to nintendo.

Even if it is an absolute requirement for a character, in the end it doesn't matter too much. If a character didn't make an appearance on a nintendo console they will just create one for the reveal. Cloud did get his ff7 ported to the wii. Joker got whatever Persona game.

This being the case, I do believe Master Chief has a chance, but there will be some sort of Halo game released for the switch along side him. Or at least news of one.

The **** are you talking about, FF7's first Nintendo appearance was the Switch, Cloud only had cameos in KH and general FF spinoffs on Nintendo prior to Smash 4

 

[Technomage]

Ugh, the east vs west debate again? If I recall correctly, the west has actually gotten more Smash content than people think. For example, Western-favored and Western-made characters like Donkey Kong (not the original Donkey Kong), Diddy, K. Rool, Samus, Ridley, Little Mac, Sonic, banjo, and Steve were added to the roster.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The only thing I could find in regard to Alucard is this

(see previous)

...A lot of players would probably be most familiar with Alucard, but fans would probably prefer one of the Belmonts—even though they’re unrelated to the later games in the series pic.twitter.com/wPJZfJZc3v

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) December 17, 2018

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The only thing I could find in regard to Alucard is this

(see previous)

...A lot of players would probably be most familiar with Alucard, but fans would probably prefer one of the Belmonts—even though they’re unrelated to the later games in the series pic.twitter.com/wPJZfJZc3v

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) December 17, 2018

I just wanna know if Fiora being added to Shulk’s Final Smash was indeed influenced by the ballot…

 

[volbound1700]

Here is the thing, this entire East vs. West discussion only came up because I said that I felt the leak of Masterchief and Dixie Kong was fake because it favored the West too much and went against the trend that the DLC, too date, has had content that was more favorable towards the East or younger generations.

Can we move on? Sorry that I said that statement. No need to discuss any further.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Alucard is popular, and I'm sure he especially gained more traction because of the Castlevania Netflix show that first aired in 2017. Season 2 of that show aired on October 26, 2018, two months and 18 days after Simon and Richter were revealed to be playable.

 

[N3ON]

A youtuber talking about a character isn't proof of much past their feelings; the goal here should just be to prove that Joker was a popular character in general, since he wasn't added due to Smash popularity. If the contention is that Joker's pedigree is isolated to Japan, go find statistics of western success.

Also it's an M-rated JRPG, that's not exactly a "kids are playing this" kind of game. At least not in greater number than adults. And the third-parties included seem to skew heavily towards favouring adults, anyway.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Alucard is popular, and I'm sure he especially gained more traction because of the Castlevania Netflix show that first aired in 2017. Season 2 of that show aired on October 26, 2018, two months and 18 days after Simon and Richter were revealed to be playable.

Alucard was always popular, being the protag of the fan favourite game would do that after all

 

[TheCJBrine]

iirc Sakurai said a character appearing on a Nintendo system could be seen as something more like a courtesy, he never said it was required.

tbh requiring a Nintendo appearance would seem to go against their "represent gaming as a whole" goal. And hey, it'd kind of appear on Nintendo anyway through Smash! (a shame Nintendo is unwilling to do the reverse if the stuff about Samus not being in Fortnite because Nintendo didn't want her appearing on other systems was true; apparently you can't do crossplay with Mario skins in Minecraft either, like I assumed previously, though I didn't check this myself)

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Alucard was always popular, being the protag of the fan favourite game would do that after all

Symphony of the Night go brr

 

[volbound1700]

Alucard was always popular, being the protag of the fan favourite game would do that after all

I see Alucard vs. Simon Belmont a lot like Megaman vs. Megaman X. Simon is the original face of the trilogy but Alucard could be more popular (I am not sure we really have data to say either way). We have similar situation with Megaman. I think Sakurai made the correct decision but I could definitely see how Alucard is more popular.

Heck, you could say Carmilla is super popular too now thanks to the show

Spoiler: Spoiler to Castlevania new Season

(although the show just killed her off)

 

[N3ON]

iirc Sakurai said a character appearing on a Nintendo system could be seen as something more like a courtesy, he never said it was required.

I mean he also said he might have misgivings about inclusion had Cloud never appeared on a Nintendo system as well.

Seems like a moot point since no characters without a Nintendo appearance seem very likely anyway.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I see Alucard vs. Simon Belmont a lot like Megaman vs. Megaman X. Simon is the original face of the trilogy but Alucard could be more popular (I am not sure we really have data to say either way). We have similar situation with Megaman. I think Sakurai made the correct decision but I could definitely see how Alucard is more popular.

Heck, you could say Carmilla is super popular too now thanks to the show

Spoiler: Spoiler to Castlevania new Season

(although the show just killed her off)

Considering Sakurai claimed Alucard was the most popular CV character citing the ballot, I think we do indeed have data on that

 

[Shroob]

I mean he also said he might have misgivings about inclusion had Cloud never appeared on a Nintendo system as well.

Seems like a moot point since no characters without a Nintendo appearance seem very likely anyway.

Wasn't Cloud's entire Nintendo Presence pre-reveal a cameo in Chain of Memories on the GBA and that Rhythm Game?


Don't think the bar's super high.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wasn't Cloud's entire Nintendo Presence pre-reveal a cameo in Chain of Memories on the GBA and that Rhythm Game?


Don't think the bar's super high.

Joker only appeared in Q2 a dungeon crawler spin-off of Persona so the bars even lower than you think.

 

[volbound1700]

Considering Sakurai claimed Alucard was the most popular CV character citing the ballot, I think we do indeed have data on that

Yeah put this comment: "...A lot of players would probably be most familiar with Alucard, but fans would probably prefer one of the Belmonts—even though they’re unrelated to the later games in the series."

Does not tend to point to Alucard having more support than Belmont. Sounds like the poll had several Belmonts and Alucard all in the running and he tabulated it all under a general Castlevania rating. I mean you could be correct but the language itself does not 100% say that Alucard was the winner. He even stated that "fans would prefer on one of the Belmonts."

 

[TriggerX]

I always like these responses to glitches like how training mode ****ed up shielding or something and people only realized it a year later. Like, if people didn't find out until that long later, it wasn't that big of deal.

The **** are you talking about, FF7's first Nintendo appearance was the Switch, Cloud only had cameos in KH and general FF spinoffs on Nintendo prior to Smash 4

Oops my bad you're definitely right, all of Nintendo's systems always just blur together for me. Lol I have a switch that hasn't turned on in a year.
Either way, he did end up with his full game on a nintendo console. Of course this is pure speculation when I say this, but its likely nintendo already knew they would be porting over a lot of those FF games to the switch.

Although from what Gwen said, simple cameos could be good enough as well.

Which sakurai has alluded to before in previous interviews

Nintendo Dream Interview with Sakurai: Part 2

Sakurai discusses all seven of the DLC characters in Smash for Wii U/3DS.

sourcegaming.info

Sakurai:

Exactly. And within the FF franchise, Cloud is without question the most popular choice. A number of people fixate on the fact his original game was never released on a Nintendo console, but if we were to limit our choices to characters who appeared on a Nintendo console, we’d end up with Bartz from FFV or the Onion Knight from FFIII—how would that work? Maybe they could change jobs or something… Actually, that would be kind of interesting (laughs).


(Everyone laughs)


Sakurai: At the same time, I think it’s only natural to prioritize the character who enjoys worldwide popularity. I might have had misgivings if Cloud had never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, though.

Still as far as characters go, Id say nothing is impossible

 

[N3ON]

Wasn't Cloud's entire Nintendo Presence pre-reveal a cameo in Chain of Memories on the GBA and that Rhythm Game?


Don't think the bar's super high.

I don't either; but the point was arguing the bar's existence.

 

[Ivander]

Wasn't Cloud's entire Nintendo Presence pre-reveal a cameo in Chain of Memories on the GBA

Less a cameo and more a boss and one of the strongest Summon cards in the game. But yeah, he only had 2 games on a Nintendo system at the time.

 

[volbound1700]

The original Kingdom Hearts has Cloud in it. Was it ported to 3DS? I know that some of the Kingdom Hearts games have ended up on 3DS. If so, Cloud was on 3DS via KH franchise.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Small cameos are good enough..
Kratos and Master Chief are in Fortnite on the Switch..

 

[TheCJBrine]

Wasn't Cloud's entire Nintendo Presence pre-reveal a cameo in Chain of Memories on the GBA and that Rhythm Game?


Don't think the bar's super high.

Master Chief still eligible thanks to the Minecraft skin and Fortnite appearance

 

[Eldrake]

It's Ethan Winters.

False.
Ethan has no eyes.
Or a face.
Or even a head for that matter.

 

[volbound1700]

I won't lie though, among almost everyone that I know, Masterchief would probably move the needle more than any other DLC addition.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I prefer Smash to traditional fighting games in large part because I find their needlessly complex inputs stupid. It's just a boring muscle memory grind that artificially raises the skill floor.

Well they're so good news, recently they have been making inputs for stuff super simple for people like you and me who can't do complex inputs

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah put this comment: "...A lot of players would probably be most familiar with Alucard, but fans would probably prefer one of the Belmonts—even though they’re unrelated to the later games in the series."

Does not tend to point to Alucard having more support than Belmont. Sounds like the poll had several Belmonts and Alucard all in the running and he tabulated it all under a general Castlevania rating. I mean you could be correct but the language itself does not 100% say that Alucard was the winner. He even stated that "fans would prefer on one of the Belmonts."

If more people are sooner to recogmize Alucard, that'd mean he's more popular duento recognizability, right? It's like a Lloyd VS Yuri thing, cater to Smash fans specifically or Tales fans?

The original Kingdom Hearts has Cloud in it. Was it ported to 3DS? I know that some of the Kingdom Hearts games have ended up on 3DS. If so, Cloud was on 3DS via KH franchise.

Cloud's 3ds appearance was Theatrhythm, his KH Nintendo appearance was exclusively the GBA

 

[Ivander]

Or even a head for that matter.

That's a lie there.

You're thinking of Miles Upshur from Outlast. Now he doesn't actually have a head.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ok so uh I found that IC glitch, it’s been in since 2020

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Kicked nanas ass so hard she just had to show up again for a second ass kicking

 

[volbound1700]

If more people are sooner to recogmize Alucard, that'd mean he's more popular duento recognizability, right? It's like a Lloyd VS Yuri thing, cater to Smash fans specifically or Tales fans?

Cloud's 3ds appearance was Theatrhythm, his KH Nintendo appearance was exclusively the GBA

I agree but the language doesn't even seem to indicate that MORE people recognize Alucard. He just says "ALOT". In fact he says players would PREFER a Belmont. Sakurai has always been very tricky with words. It also seems like this is in a response to a question about Alucard such as "Why wasn't Alucard selected?" I could be wrong but having some context would help.

Again, you could be correct but I am not sure there is the data out there. Even if Sakurai had said that, that would be Sakurai's perception. Either way, though, Alucard is HUGE in Castlevania. Comparing Simon and Alucard is like comparing Link and Zelda in the Legend of Zelda series. Both are pretty iconic for the series.

 

[7NATOR]

The one thing I'm surprised about, when it comes to recognizability, is that It seemed there were a good amount of people that didn't Recognize Sephiroth

Well with that being in mind, One thing I Like about the Smash trailers (Particular ones that's shot in Smash CGI) is that even if you don't know who the characters is for whatever reason, they still make the character look good and cool. Sephiroth's Trailer I think did the best job at that of all the trailers

Ok so uh I found that IC glitch, it’s been in since 2020

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Wait, what was this glitch intially thought to be from. is this the Terry Glitch IC Glitch?

 

[Shroob]

The one thing I'm surprised about, when it comes to recognizability, is that It seemed there were a good amount of people that didn't Recognize Sephiroth

Well with that being in mind, One thing I Like about the Smash trailers (Particular ones that's shot in Smash CGI) is that even if you don't know who the characters is for whatever reason, they still make the character look good and cool. Sephiroth's Trailer I think did the best job at that of all the trailers



Wait, what was this glitch intially thought to be from. is this the Terry Glitch IC Glitch?

No, it's just a glitch involving the Icies and their spin move.

 

[Perkilator]

Cloud's 3ds appearance was Theatrhythm, his KH Nintendo appearance was exclusively the GBA

There's also Re:Coded for the DS.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

The original Kingdom Hearts has Cloud in it. Was it ported to 3DS? I know that some of the Kingdom Hearts games have ended up on 3DS. If so, Cloud was on 3DS via KH franchise.

Chain of Memories I believe and that was a GBA game

A damn fun one at that

I know Zack was in BBS, I think and that was on PSP. (Someone corrected me lol)
The only other Kingdom Hearts 3DS game I can remember is dream drop distance and that didn't have any Kingdom Hearts characters but it did have Neku

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I agree but the language doesn't even seem to indicate that MORE people recognize Alucard. He just says "ALOT". In fact he says players would PREFER a Belmont. Sakurai has always been very tricky with words. It also seems like this is in a response to a question about Alucard such as "Why wasn't Alucard selected?" I could be wrong but having some context would help.

Again, you could be correct but I am not sure there is the data out there. Even if Sakurai had said that, that would be Sakurai's perception. Either way, though, Alucard is HUGE in Castlevania. Comparing Simon and Alucard is like comparing Link and Zelda in the Legend of Zelda series. Both are pretty iconic for the series.

A lot would indeed imply more, the fans statement likely meaning CastleVania fans. Japanese is a tricky language that can be translated in many different ways, like how the words for bloodstain and wedding are pronounced the same in Japanese. As for context, he was talking about characters he considered only to ultimately scrap, including Decidueye.

Sakurai's perception being the official Smash ballot results. Hard to contest those tbh, and Zelda and Link aren't that comparable as again, Alucard was playable in the fan favourite game in the series. Zelda's always been Link, Link and nothing but Link

 

[Perkilator]

Chain of Memories I believe and that was a GBA game

A damn fun one at that

I know Zack was in 358/2 days, I think and that was on 3DS. Someone correct me if Im wrong

1. Zack was in Birth by Sleep, which was for the PSP
2. 358/2 Days was for the DS
3. The 3DS has Dream Drop Distance