Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

The leak mentioned Vergeben, and I don't remember what it said about him, but it made me think it was clearly fake, reminding me of the other fake "leaks" that tried to pull Vergeben into 'em or dunk on him.

It mentioned Verg and PracticalBrush, two names which are known to be credible, meaning it was piggybacking hard off their reputation.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I don't know either, but until Melee I was under the impression that the series had a more coherent and focused vision, while later the series became more and more random, a collection of as much stuff as possible without much thought behind.

Like stages for example, in the old games there was one song for each stage (+ secret song with rare chance of happening in Melee), now you have a selection of hundred of songs and they aren't even stage specific anymore.
The more the merrier right? It's a lot better to have more content rather than less? I don't think so. I'd prefer having stages designed to have a stronger identity and to match an overall identity of the game in a coherent way, rather than having stages that are model imports from other games and random ost. The identity is completely lost.Not to mention that the stage selection has big problems, such as, there are several versions of the typical Mario first level, but there isn't even a Bowser's Castle stage, and Pac-Man can't even have the location it's famous for.

This is just an example, in a game as big as Smash Bros, there are many things that changed in favor of quantity over consistency. The way how they managed to make all those different art styles and stuff coexist in the same game and look good is impressive, there's a lot of work behind that, I know, but I personally prefer a different approach to the overall concept of the game as a whole.

It's not even just that, even the way how the gameplay is done... and movesets... the game is still too much bound to its roots, it isn't evolving, it's just refining the gameplay of Brawl all over again (that anyway was very based on Melee already). We never got another jump like 64 to Melee, where they added many new moves and features to the core gameplay. Some veterans could be completely redesigned to have a moveset that matches their more recent appearances, but we're still stuck with their old movesets for the sake of not alienating the old mains of those characters (rarely they modify a veteran's moveset, and when they do it's usually just a few moves at best). Why doesn't Young Link use the ocarina and the masks? Why isn't Samus' moveset redesigned around her more agile version from Other M and Samus' Return? etc etc.

tldr:
I see the new direction of Smash as taking as much stuff as possible and sticking it all together with some tape, and I don't like this. At this point I'm hoping for a reboot and I don't even care if it cuts 90% of the content.

In a way, I can understand a few of your complaints. Smash was always more into the side of an all-you-can-eat buffet rather than a five-course meal that's meticulously planned. This is how we end up with multiple Jungle Hijinx remixes, no Bowser's Castle stage and quite a few stages that refer to no game in particular, but are just generic derivations.

And yeah, the team doesn't seem to like going back and fully redesigning things. Which, for the record, I think actually helped several other games I like (like LoL) and would certainly help Smash

On the Subject of the PapaGenos video, what do you think about not having a 2010s tournament yet? Could one of the characters we think are likely fit in well there and Nintendo is just waiting? We already got Steve from 2009/2011 and Min Min and Pyra from 2017. For unreleased characters, my top bet would be Dark Souls which came out in 2011, or a modern Nintendo rep... but I'm also going to shill GTAV and mention how that game and its characters mainly debuted in 2013 so it also checks out. Who else would qualify if they would be hypothetically holding on to this 2010s event??

Perhaps. Also, off-topic, but we did get all of the other Smash-themed tournaments, from 64 to 4, yes? In that case, the only "timeline" events missing are the 2010s tournament and the Ultimate tournament - the latter of which we'll likely get after CP11.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

What gets me is that it didn't even bother with another fakeout. Like, even if they did do another fakeout, it'd be bad; but it's worse to just not bother because then the trailer's just, like, nothing. Like, come on, at least play with it. I dunno, maybe have it be K. Rool's silhouette again, but K. Rool's in the house, because it's actually Dixie. That's... still pretty bad, but at least it's trying something new.

It's E3 too. Don't you want your viewers to get EXCITED by the trailers?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Like I literally just shared it for laughs don’t go thinking it’s legit now cuz it clearly isn’t

if I DO find something legit looking tho, I’ll be sure to spoiler box it

otherwise assume it’s fake and posted for the lulz

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I'm on the boat with people who might not mind looking at leaks within the week before the direct.

On the day of or the day before, HELL NO.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m so desperate I want one of my MWs to be leaked at this point

 

[DuskFleur]

And now a haiku from me.

Will Sora join Smash?
I really hope so. But still…
E3 Hype is real!

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Um guys
The last announcement of the Summer Games Fest looks amazing
It's goddamn Elden Ring, it's coming our January 21, 2022

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Um guys
The last announcement of the Summer Games Fest looks amazing
It's goddamn Elden Ring, it's coming our January 21, 2022

Welp I guess that means it probably won’t be a part of Bamco’s E3 segment

which means… well, if you know me, you KNOW what that means.

 

[ahemtoday]

I’m so desperate I want one of my MWs to be leaked at this point

Uh, uh, my dad works for E3 and he told me that the big reveal is that Fighter Pass 2 is actually Fighter Pass X2, because Sakurai lied and it's actually ten characters, so it's actually two Fighter Passes, and they're also going to have a hextuple reveal and the new characters are Octoling, Elma, Neku, Ahri, Fiora, and KOS-MOS. And they're all releasing tomorrow and will be super top tier.

Well, I tried...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Uh, uh, my dad works for E3 and he told me that the big reveal is that Fighter Pass 2 is actually Fighter Pass X2, because Sakurai lied and it's actually ten characters, so it's actually two Fighter Passes, and they're also going to have a hextuple reveal and the new characters are Octoling, Elma, Neku, Ahri, Fiora, and KOS-MOS. And they're all releasing tomorrow and will be super top tier.

Well, I tried...

Wait

Pass 2 was 6 peeps

wouldn’t it therefore be 12 peeps?

math’s a bit off

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Welp I guess that means it probably won’t be a part of Bamco’s E3 segment

which means… well, if you know me, you KNOW what that means.

Haha best of luck to you, Rie, and to y'all hoping you get who you want

 

[7NATOR]

I didn't watch the Papagenos Video, but from what i hear, he finally went over the 2010's tourney theory. I'm glad that he went over the 2010's tourney thing finally. I remember messaging him about that months ago, and I'm sure others did also. It's a interesting theory

Oh also quick question, what do you put in again to get the character Emoji's?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Peebs video.

 

[ahemtoday]

Wait

Pass 2 was 6 peeps

wouldn’t it therefore be 12 peeps?

math’s a bit off

No, see, that's the clever thing, it's not that Pass 2 had one more character, it was actually two FP1-sized passes stapled together. Because it's x2. I am Nintendo's very smart for such a clever but completely plausible trick.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Tales of Arise is looking clean. Future Smash reps

 

[Technomage]

Here's a video about that. (swear warning)

Plus, motion inputs can allow for more moves in a moveset (without having to resort to a Command Select-like move).

 

[Dukefire]

I'm interested in Endless Dungeon

 

[Nekoo]

Tales of Arise is looking clean. Future Smash reps

I'm not sure, from what I've seen around the Tales of community, in general, you see people directly getting attached to the characters, but seems that a lot of people are feeling iffy about the new cast, which is...A first, in recent memories, especially design wise except for the main waifu, but everyone aclaim the graphisms and Gameplay however.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Summer Fest was okay. Most hype for Wonderlands. There's a ton of hype surrounding Elden Ring, but the trailer didn't do too much for me, tbh

 

[ZelDan]

Didn't even know SGF was happening today.

Whelp, guess I'll just wait for it to finish and see what's all revealed afterwards.

EDIT: Or is it already over?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Didn't even know SGF was happening today.

Whelp, guess I'll just wait for it to finish and see what's all revealed afterwards.

EDIT: Or is it already over?

Main show's over, but they're having this post show thingy rn I think

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

I'm not sure, from what I've seen around the Tales of community, in general, you see people directly getting attached to the characters, but seems that a lot of people are feeling iffy about the new cast, which is...A first, in recent memories, especially design wise except for the main waifu, but everyone aclaim the graphisms and Gameplay however.

That's fair. I was like that with Tales of Abyss and I fell in love with it in the end

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Didn't even know SGF was happening today.

Whelp, guess I'll just wait for it to finish and see what's all revealed afterwards.

EDIT: Or is it already over?

Streams here. They're in the middle of post show.

 

[Gnateb]

OH MY GOD it looks so good

 

[Guynamednelson]

Plus, motion inputs can allow for more moves in a moveset (without having to resort to a Command Select-like move).

Not necessarily. 3D fighters try to avoid special move inputs whenever possible, and they have bigger movesets than any other type of fighter. However a lot of them can be considered filler, unlike the quality-over-quantity movelists of 2D and platform fighters.

 

[SharkLord]

Not necessarily. 3D fighters try to avoid special move inputs whenever possible, and they have bigger movesets than any other type of fighter. However a lot of them can be considered filler, unlike the quality-over-quantity movelists of 2D and platform fighters.

It should also be noted that using inputs might be a bit more awkward with the increased freedom of movement. For instance, the quarter-circle forward in theory should just have you crouch, then stand up again. If you did it in a 3D fighter, you'd probably end up moving to the side while doing it unless there's a way around that.

Or at least, that's my guess.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It should also be noted that using inputs might be a bit more awkward with the increased freedom of movement. For instance, the quarter-circle forward in theory should just have you crouch, then stand up again. If you did it in a 3D fighter, you'd probably end up moving to the side while doing it unless there's a way around that.

Or at least, that's my guess.

You're actually supposed to sidestep or move forward in some way to indicate that you're doing a quarter circle/DP input correctly when a 3D fighting game character has such inputs.

 

[ahemtoday]

Aren't 3D fighter inputs more like beat-'em-up combos than anything? I'm not sure they really compare to any other fighting game except, like... Xrd Ramlethal. Not that I've ever played a 3D fighting game...

 

[Icedragonadam]

I do hope a Tales Of character is one of the last two characters. It would be the best way to promote Tales Of Arise in the West.

 

[Curious Villager]

So I know there's like a 95% chance this is fake and all, but did anyone happen to save a screenshot or text of this before it was deleted?

Oh it got deleted? I still got the tab open for some reason, so here's the copy/paste if you want

Spoiler

Posted this in the Smash Ultimate subreddit but it was removed. Someone's got to leak something before the big event, right? Original post below:

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Vergeben may be absent lately but he's not the only one with access to reliable sources to get the news out. Spoilers ahead, your choice to believe this or not. Maybe we can get u/practicalbrush12 to confirm this to, since he's proven to be reliable and I'm confident our sources overlap along with Vergeben.

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One of my sources has managed to watch the Nintendo Direct for next Tuesday multiple times now and has given me this info:

-E3 is the fabled double reveal and we'll know all the characters in FP2

-The Direct opens with a Smash trailer, but does NOT open with the white bar on black animation because Nintendo is triple dipping into the King K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie trailer, but it's been altered like how Banjo-Kazooie's trailer had K. Rool sleeping in it. It starts with the good guys vs. bad guy artwork and adds a Banjo-Kazooie and Gruntilda one. It cuts to Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, K. Rool, and Banjo-Kazooie sitting around a table playing cards and hanging out before they hear rustling through the jungle outside before cramming into the window sill. Unlike the previous trailers, they do NOT do the fakeout a third time where there's a character silhouette that is actually another character. Instead, it's just a silhouette of a character jumping from tree to tree, and then the character floats down to the house in a spinning fashion and whips out a guitar, similar to how Banjo-Kazooie used their instruments. Of course, it's Dixie, and you know it as soon as she floats down with her hair twirl. Dixie's entrance line is "Dixie Kong Rocks Out!"

-Dixie is to Diddy like Isabelle is to Villager. She has some shared moves but some unique ones. Most of the shared moves in this case are normal moves and not special moves. She has a float mechanic like Peach, but unlike Peach, she constantly descends a bit.

-Dixie's stage is a pirate ship like stage. It has ropes that are re-skinned ladders, but it does not move on water like the actual Pirate Ship stage (Toon Link's stage)

-One of her alternate costumes is her purple outfit from DKC2's multiplayer mode thing. I'm not familiar with the mode myself so I don't know if there's anything else related to it.

-No release date will be given in the trailer but it will mention a Sakurai Presents in July.

-After Dixie is shown, the Direct jumps straight into a new Donkey Kong Country like game that comes out in October. Nintendo mentions DK's 40th anniversary. Retro Studio's doesn't appear to be involved in this one because of their work on Metroid Prime 4, so I think this is actually coming from Nintendo themselves but don't know if it's a different developer.

-The last Smash trailer reveal will be the second to last announcement because Nintendo is saving their best for last. It's worth the wait so I won't spoil that one here, but the Smash announcement is excellently done in the Direct. Again, the trailer foregoes the white bar on black background opening animation. It's just a black screen after the Direct does it's normal transition, and it starts with Smash sound effects playing in the background before slowly - and I mean VERY SLOWLY - fading in. In one way, it's actually kind of annoying how much they draw it out, but my assumption is that it's done that way because it's the last character for Ultimate and I guess most people won't recognize it's Smash until the sound effects. Anyways, it fades out to show a bunch of different characters battling on Mementos before switching to a few other stages - Spiral Mountain, King of Fighters Stadium, and Northern Cave. It's kind of like the Steve trailer how Mario gets knocked around by third parties, but instead, it's third party DLC stages this time. There are cuts in this small montage that show emphasis on the stages too, so it'll be pretty obvious to Smash fans that there's a focus on maps here. Anyways, it then cuts to black again for a brief second before showing a shot of space. It pans slowly until the right side of the screen has a curved, silver bend with a technologic motiff. The trailer then has a quick pan and zoom past this bend to reveal a Halo ring, where it then zooms in on a character standing there, back turned waiting while music slowly fades in. It cuts to a shot of the character's feet standing on a grassy plain (with it panning up slowly) with while Cortana does a voice over saying "Chief, I'm picking up movement, but it doesn't seem to be Covenant forces or the Flood!". The camera hits the top part of the character's model from a side view before it zooms quickly to see Mario attacking him, and he quickly turns around and knocks him away revealing it's Master Chief on a Halo stage. The entrance line reads "Master Chief Finishes the Fight" before cutting away to the standard stuff you'd see in a Smash trailer.

-The Halo stage works a lot like the Minecraft stage in the sense that it has different biomes. There's a grassy one reminiscent of the second level in Halo CE, and there's a snowy one from Assault on the Control Room. There's also a nighttime one, but I'm not familiar with Halo enough to tell you exactly what it references it.

-One of Master Chief's taunts is shown off in the trailer and it takes the Cortana chip out of his head and she says a line.

-Most of Master Chief's alts that are shown in the trailer are different colors from Halo games. Nintendo must've been in on the joke because at one point, there's a red colored Master Chief vs a blue one.

-The trailer ends by saying Fall 2019.

-The trailer leads into a Direct transition and then Nintendo goes over their final announcement.



And that's all I got with Smash news. Get ready for Tuesday everyone.



Edit: Kept the error for Fall 2019 in there. You know I meant 2021. But w/e

 

[SpectreJordan]

Oh it got deleted? I still got the tab open for some reason, so here's the copy/paste if you want

That sounds too good to be true.

 

[SKX31]

My initial SGF notes (spoilered in case):

Spoiler

• A lot of pretty interesting games, a lot of kinda meh ones too.
• Apparently SNK feel more comfortable with Metal Slug after the smaller-scale games, which is good to see.
• Those oranges in Death Stranding are going to have some plot significance. Calling it.
• CoD with dragons it looked like in Warzone? Uhm, okay.
• That Adam Sandler movie looked so Adam Sandler I'm pretty sure it's about to loop around to being not really Adam Sandler.
• 2B in Fall Guys. The true surprise of the show...
• Only to be outdone by SMITE X Stranger Things. Weirder than Negan in Tekken 7.
• Wonderlands and Amazon's Lost Ark kinda collide with each other since they blend fantasy with high tech.
• For that matter, Amazon investing even more deeply into gaming is one thing me from 6 months ago would've not guessed. I had the same reaction to when I initially saw that ByteDance (TikTok) were investing into games.
• I initially thought Prime Matter, that new random label, would be Amazon-lead. But nope, it's Koch Media.
• Tales of Arise looked pretty damn good, will have to see where this goes.
• Chivalry II... not sure what would make it stand out compared to Chivalry I.
• On a similar note, I'm a bit dissapointed that the Overwatch 2 team decided to just show off updated character models. Which is fine... but after sneak-announcing going from 6v6 to 5v5 for OW2, please show us more how that'd work.
• Several games went with pre-recorded Co-op multiplayer footage. I get it, to avoid the instances where one team member is toxic or whatever, but still I've grown kinda numb to that.
• Good to see progress on Vampire the Masqurade.
• Bamco crowding out the medieval-ish dungeon crawler genre with Demon Souls and Elden Ring baybee.

 

[subterrestrial]

inb4 its real

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Honestly the Dixie segment sounds boring, doesn’t have the same oomph K. Rool and Banjo’s trailers did

 

[Icedragonadam]

Last time I checked. The details of a Smash trailer has never been leaked. If there was, it would be just before the reveal.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Yo SKX31

- Maybe those Oranges in the new Death Stranding game could indicate a similar situation to how the Night Howler flowers worked in Disney's Zootopia, if you've seen that.

• Also, yea I DID NOT expect 2B in Fall Guys, props to Square
• SNK bringing back Metal Slug is a nice surprise
• Elden Ring looks amazing indeed
• I'm sorry, but why are you promoting a MOVIE or a SONG at a Game Festival? Though I must admit, Weezer's new song sounds great imo

 

[Shroob]

Even though it's like, 99.9% fake, I wouldn't complain about a Dixie/Chief reveal tbh.


Dixie's obviously one of the last 'big' Nintendo characters not in Smash in some form aside from a .png atm, and Chief is Chief, doesn't need an explanation.


Granted, like 99.9% sure it's fake.



Would be kinda ironic that if it were real, at all 3 1st party characters this pass are girls though.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Also y'all I wanna bring up one leak because of something

The Ryu Hayabusa and Phantasy Star Character in Smash 4chan leak from a while ago:

/v/ - Video Games » Thread #541591126

arch.b4k.co

Besides these two fighters, it claims that more fighters are on the way. Is this the first somewhat correct leak we've gotten that could also get right the fact that EVEN more fighters are on the way?

 

[Shroob]

Also y'all I wanna bring up one leak because of something

The Ryu Hayabusa and Phantasy Star Character in Smash 4chan leak from a while ago:

/v/ - Video Games » Thread #541591126

arch.b4k.co

Besides these two fighters, it claims that more fighters are on the way. Is this the first somewhat correct leak we've gotten that could also get right the fact that EVEN more fighters are on the way?

How exactly is it "Somewhat correct"?