Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Hydreigonfan01]

I remember someone got Joker, they were joking initially but still

That was Alpharad. He also predicted Pyra/Mythra, Sephiroth and Steve for the second pass. Alpharad might be a Smash fortune teller.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibilities.

They've never given the shill pick treatment to a third party. 3rd parties typically have a lot more legacy behind them than most 1st parties. The vast majority of them debuted back in the 80s and 90s. The newest third party character in Smash for reference is Joker, who debuted in 2016. Persona 5 was nearing being 3 years old by the time Joker made his way to Smash, while the only 3rd party IPs with a playable character in Smash that started in the 21st century were Bayonetta and Minecraft. The former was directly funded by Nintendo themselves, while the latter is the literal best selling game of all time, and it's telling that there are no 3rd party characters playable in Smash that debuted after the Switch's launch.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

That was Alpharad. He also predicted Pyra/Mythra, Sephiroth and Steve for the second pass. Alpharad might be a Smash fortune teller.

Please God tell me he predicted Sora.

 

[Technomage]

Brawl is a very interesting case because it was clearly NOT designed for being a competitive-style fighting game. However, it still almost feels like it has more content in it than any other Smash games (that isn't a correct statement but you still feel that way in the aspect that there is more to do and the content isn't just throw at you like Ultimate, you have to unlock it).

A lot of reviewers now are going back and giving Brawl very favorable reviews. It is almost like it has been rehabilitated. The only Smash that I see as never going back to play is the Wii U one because Ultimate has everything that it has but better. There is nothing to distinguish the Wii U version versus Ultimate.

N64 has a unique and simplified style plus unique Modes
Melee is the same as N64, very unique style and Modes (the Adventure Mode is really what Sakurai should have followed in future games for Adventure Modes)
Brawl has tons of single-player content and IMO is still perhaps the best solo version.

One character that Sakurai changed from Brawl that I really cannot stand is Olimar. Olimar only having 3 Pikmin really messed up his moveset. Maybe 6 was too much for tactical reasons (still not as crazy tactical decision-making under quick crunch as Steve, Hero's spell list, or Shulk). At the very least, Olimar should still have 4 Pikmin, however, I would prefer getting back to the 6 that he had in Olimar. I do like the recovery they gave him from 4 on which was a vast improvement over the one from Brawl. Overall, Olimar's moveset is not near as good today as it was in Brawl IMO.

You forgot to mention Smash 3DS's Smash Run, which a lot of people like far more than Smash Wii U's Smash Party.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Please God tell me he predicted Sora.

He did not.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

They've never given the shill pick treatment to a third party. 3rd parties typically have a lot more legacy behind them than most 1st parties. The vast majority of them debuted back in the 80s and 90s. The newest third party character in Smash for reference is Joker, who debuted in 2016. Persona 5 was nearing being 3 years old by the time Joker made his way to Smash, while the only 3rd party IPs with a playable character in Smash that started in the 21st century were Bayonetta and Minecraft. The former was directly funded by Nintendo themselves, while the latter is the literal best selling game of all time, and it's telling that there are no 3rd party characters playable in Smash that debuted after the Switch's launch.

Okay. Well…then it could be Lloyd or Yuri apparently. I’m just trying to say a Tales Of character is a possibility.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Interesting points. I'm also willing to ask this question: What kind of character playstyle would you like, and what characters themselves would you want in Smash? It could help think of characters you might be willing to play as.

-I always mained Kirby in every Smash game, and aside of being a fan of the franchise and liking the character, the reason was also because of the playstyle. Kirby is a character who feels very rewarding to play as, because you can't rely on gimmicks or spam, you need to launch yourself in the fight, dodge and attack by staying near your opponent despite the risk of being a lightweight. I hate fights where you have to shield all the time and wait for an open, I prefer when players just charge at the other and fight openly. I like when there's low latency between pressing a button and when the attack actually happens, so no fancy animations or complex cinematics, you press punch and the character does punch, as simple as this.

-Though I also like being able to mess with weird gimmicks in parallel with the regular playstyle... with Kirby, there are copy abilities, and stuff like the stone or the final cutter, that have special properties which can generate unexpected situation for your opponent (such as, you go through an explosion with the stone and stay there instead of being launched away like your enemy was expecting, distracting them; or with final cutter you can move very fast and hit places you normally wouldn't be able to, when the opponent don't expect it).

I tried to main Villager for a while because of the "weird gimmick" side of the moveset, but it's lacking in normal moves that allow for a normal playstyle to alternate with gimmicks: everything villager is gimmmick, even smash attacks. I think I tried Megaman for a while for the same reason. I didn't play Steve for obvious reasons but I feel like he'd be Villager territory of everything is a gimmick.

Anyway, playstyle alone doesn't make it for me... for me chosing a main is more than just for technical reasons. If I chose a character is because I'm fond of the series it comes from and I like the character itself too. I can main Villager, but I care nothing of Animal Crossing and Villager to me is a little more than a Mii.

The actual characters are in my signature. Well, those are the absolute most wanted, there are others which I wouldn't mind that I didn't list, and I'm sure that there are characters I didn't think of but that would make me excited if added.

 

[Geno Boost]

We're near the end of the DLC cycle of this game, and it's unlikely that they will start a pass 3 after this one. I'm still without a copy of Ultimate, for several reasons

(some of them are: after decades of playing Melee, my friends got tired of Smash and we are not playing it anymore; I have a bad internet connection and can't upgrade it for now, so I can't even play online, and by the way I don't want to support Nintendo Online being paid, and I also am unimpressed by this new Smash game and there's nothing that really gets my attention and makes me interested, plus several other smaller reasons)

but the biggest reasons of all, is that I'm tired of Kirby being mid-to-low tier and I want to change my main, but none of the characters currently in the game are that meaningful to me to consider to main them, or the ones who are, I don't like their playstyle. So I'm waiting for the full DLC roster before making an actual decision if to get the game or not. Yeah, I've been waiting for years, I'm that patient.

The point is, it's very unlikely that I will get any character I care of... even with the last two spots, it's gonna be some weird choice coming from mainstream games, maybe games that used to be more common on Sony and Microsoft consoles, or some other JRPG character I care nothing of, etc.
I'm almost sure that at the end of all this, I will not buy this Smash game.... and it will be the first time. I even bought the two versions of Smash 4 at launch and the Gamecube adapter, Smash has always been part of my life from since when I discovered the franchise. Right now my interest in the series is below zero and it's still digging hard to reach the oblivion. I don't know, I'm just not interested in Smash anymore.

The discussion here is the same of when I stopped being active... still the same few characters, the same mindset, the same discussions over and over. I don't want to offend anyone or criticize, it's just that I feel like this is not a franchise for me anymore, and that overall things became incredibly stale from since Brawl, both game-wise and fanbase-wise.

I guess I'll be around for a few days lurking and occasionally writing a few comments if needed, but as soon as they will announce the E3 character, I'll be "ok" and then leave again for months, or forever; it already happend with Pyra, Sephiroth, and it was starting to be like this from since Min min already. The more they add characters, the more apathy my reaction becomes.

I think I have to thank Sakurai and Nintendo, or whoever took the franchise into this new direction which I don't like anymore.

Now I expect a lot of replies quoting my post and telling me that the issue is with myself, not with the game, that the franchise is good that I have to leave that my points don't stand that I'm biased blah blah, and those post to get 10+ likes, but really, I don't care anymore.

I remember you as far as the miiverse days.
I can see how much smash game has changed being now Advertisement character seems like the main point of how we get characters nowadays. Like I remember back when the characters people wanted were 80% Nintendo characters.
I also dislike the fact that I have to pay to play smash online mode because I play it for like few days then I leave game then it gets expired once I think about playing smash again and that requires me to pay again so for to play it for few days again which sucks.
Smash ultimate Does need a better story SSE was one of the best things we ever had in any smash game going through adventures instead of bunch spirit challenges was more fun and let you explore and make you feel fighting for something and keeps us excited. trophies were also awesome edition and more fun to collect and view and has description of the characters.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

He did not.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Aww man. Well, I am still hopeful for Sora. Not giving up until the pass is over. However, of what he has predicted I will say Eggman and a Pokémon are my picks as most likely.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I can see how much smash game has changed being now Advertisement character seems like the main point of how we get characters nowadays

Bruh this has always been the case, it's only more noticable because you're more aware of gaming news than you used to be

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Bruh this has always been the case, it's only more noticable because you're more aware of gaming news than you used to be

This is more true of a statement that 2 + 2 = 4 bruh


Also, Summer Games Fest in about 2 hours :D

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

An hour after their E3 presentation…

 

[Geno Boost]

Bruh this has always been the case, it's only more noticable because you're more aware of gaming news than you used to be

Werent added for sake of advertisement during brawl era or because they were “recent”
It was less about that

 

[osby]

I remember you as far as the miiverse days.
I can see how much smash game has changed being now Advertisement character seems like the main point of how we get characters nowadays. Like I remember back when the characters people wanted were 80% Nintendo characters.
I also dislike the fact that I have to pay to play smash online mode because I play it for like few days then I leave game then it gets expired once I think about playing smash again and that requires me to pay again so for to play it for few days again which sucks.
Smash ultimate Does need a better story SSE was one of the best things we ever had in any smash game going through adventures instead of bunch spirit challenges was more fun and let you explore and make you feel fighting for something and keeps us excited. trophies were also awesome edition and more fun to collect and view and has description of the characters.

Let's look at the newcomers in Melee:

= Promotes Star Fox 64
= Promotes Dr. Mario 64
= Promotes Gen 2
= arguably promotes Pokemon Movie
= Promotes Ocarina of Time
= would be added either way but might as well count as promotions given how people treat Isabelle and Inkling
= Promotes Blazing Blade

Marth, Game & Watch, and Ice Climbers are the only newcomers who can't advertise anything, Smash was always promotional.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch that we get Dovahkiin but Doom Slayer is a Mii costume meaning in some way it was somewhat real.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Bruh this has always been the case, it's only more noticable because you're more aware of gaming news than you used to be

It's also because what could be considered a "promotional pick" for

• Super Mario 64
• Donkey Kong...64? Country 3?
• Ocarina of Time (taking Smash 64 into consideration here)
• Yoshi's Story
• Kirby...Super Star?
• Star Fox
• F-Zero X
• Game and Watch Gallery?
• Kirby and the Amazing Mirror?
• WarioWare series
• Metal Gear Solid 4
• Pokemon FireRed and LeafGreen
• The GBA DKC ports?

Are all characters that existed for years before those games came out, unlike Corrin.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Morning, SmashBoards

Just two thoughts I had:
1) So Steve's reveal was tied in to Minecraft Live 2020. Who knows, a Bamco character's Smash reveal could get tied in or referenced in the Bamco Show on the 15th.

I mean we also have Ryu Hayabusa's birthday falling on the 15th.

 

[Louie G.]

It was less about that

Nitpicking a bit but I wouldn’t say ZSS is a great example. She was definitely added in response to Zero Mission specifically, which came out in 2004 compared to her reveal in 2006.

Obviously Smash is a little bit of both. Smash has always added characters to keep things up to date with modern releases. They also add evergreen characters and throwbacks. Smash isn’t just an advertisement like some people insist, but it also isn’t not an advertisement either. And that form has hardly changed over the years.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

An hour after their E3 presentation…

That could explain the GameStop's myriad of coverage on that same day
Wonder what else it could mean

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Werent added for sake of advertisement during brawl era or because they were “recent”
It was less about that

Says you, Brawl started development in 2005 and what a surprise, FRLG was a 2004 game, Pikmin 2 was hot on the shelves in 2004, Wind Waker was 2003, Star Fox Assault was 2005 and Zero Mission was 2004. Some of these had less time between releasing and being added than the likes of Joker

 

[SharkLord]

I feel like if we were to get a new fighting game rep, It'd be a second actual Street Fighter character like Chun-Li or someone new like Sol Badguy. Mortal Kombat would still be cool to see represented in some fashion, even if it is unlikely.

Speaking of Guilty Gear... listening to all of Strives soundtrack, if we do get Sol, I really hope we get some Strive songs. it may be the newest in the series but IMO a lot of Strives tracks would be hypeworthy to listen to. Nothing says hype as playing as Kirby bashing Sephiroths face in with Japanese Thrash metal playing in the background, after all.

Funnily enough I was literally just listening to Strive tracks when I was reading this

Specifically this one:

Actually I’m pretty sure Yuri is the Cloud of Tales, at least from a character standpoint. Maybe Tales of Symphonia is the FF7 of Tales though? I don’t really know.

Yeah, Symphonia was the series' global breakout hit. There's a tiny handful that played Destiny or Phantasia's fan translation, but Symphonia basically defined the entire first generation of Tales' international fandom. There's also the fact that it was launched on a system relatively lacking in JRPGs and Nintendo Power was pushing the game pretty heavily, which is why Lloyd ended up ingrained in the minds of Smash speculators as the Tales candidate until recently.

Something also worth noting is that, from a quick cursory glance on the wiki, Lloyd and Yuri both have quite a few appearances
Lloyd Irving | Aselia Wiki | Fandom
Yuri Lowell | Aselia Wiki | Fandom
Dunno about minor crossovers with other series, but in terms of the inter-series crossovers, they seem pretty close. Outside of Tales, Lloyd has Soulcalibur Legends and the Smash 4 Mii, and Yuri has both Project X Zones. Admittedly I'm not too deep into this stuff, but it seems like a pretty close race overall.

But none of it matters because Luke's actually the most popular character so we're getting him

 

[osby]

Says you, Brawl started development in 2005 and what a surprise, FRLG was a 2004 game, Pikmin 2 was hot on the shelves in 2004, Wind Waker was 2003, Star Fox Assault was 2005 and Zero Mission was 2004. Some of these had less time between releasing and being added than the likes of Joker

Also, Wario was announced in 2006. WarioWare Touched came out the previous year and WarioWare Smooth Moves was released in the same year.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Smash was always an advertisement. Hell, the first Super Smash Bros. on Nintendo 64 got its start by having to include Nintendo's biggest franchises at the time so people would actually buy it. In doing so, they would probably learn about franchises they didn't know existed at the time and try them out. That aspect has always been present. Always.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Please God tell me he predicted Sora.

I think he did. Here is the video;

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[TwiceEXE]

Does it even matter why a character is chosen? A pure, home-grown, non GMO pick isn't inherently better than a promotional pick. If the character is neat and fun to play that's all that matters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also, Wario was announced in 2006. WarioWare Touched came out the previous year and WarioWare Smooth Moves was released in the same year.

To be fair we know for a fact Wario was outright considered in Melee but scrapped for time constraints similar to Dedede so I didn't think that would count. Then again I just realized the Kirby anime was big back then and JP Meta Knight has the same actor and uses anime terminology in Brawl

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Does it even matter why a character is chosen? A pure, home-grown, non GMO pick isn't inherently better than a promotional pick. If the character is neat and fun to play that's all that matters.

Exactly. This is literally what Sakurai has said in the past countless times.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

To be honest, if a character's in Smash, consider it an honor, more than just an advertisement

 

[Garteam]

Are people seriously arguing that ****ing Wario was primarily a promotional pick.

 

[Geno Boost]

Says you, Brawl started development in 2005 and what a surprise, FRLG was a 2004 game, Pikmin 2 was hot on the shelves in 2004, Wind Waker was 2003, Star Fox Assault was 2005 and Zero Mission was 2004. Some of these had less time between releasing and being added than the likes of Joker

But that wasn’t the “main” factor of including them in the first place for example ideas like Pokémon trainer isn’t because of FRLG release it’s an idea people wished to have probably since smash 64

 

[osby]

Are people seriously arguing that ****ing Wario was primarily a promotional pick.

No, we're just pointing out that a lot of characters had games coming out right before their addition to Smash. People only started to interpret as them being nothing but shill picks with Smash 4.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Advertisement character seems like the main point of how we get characters nowadays.

My favourite advertisement characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But that wasn’t the “main” factor of including them in the first place for example ideas like Pokémon trainer isn’t because of FRLG release it’s an idea people wished to have probably since smash 64

Who's to say the main factor for all the Ultimate newcomers was promotion then? It's confirmation bias and refusal to accept Smash has always had shill picks. Just because you didn't notice it back then doesn't mean that changes, like, I wouldn't have guessed that the Zelda cast getting their TP designs was to shill TP back in the day cause I didn't know **** about Smash, Zelda, Nintendo or the industry

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Are people seriously arguing that ****ing Wario was primarily a promotional pick.

The only true “shill picks” (as in characters that can be said to be chosen primarily to advertise upcoming games) are and in the case of the former character, his game was meant to release before Melee in the first place in addition to only being considered because Sakurai wanted extra clones.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Either way, Nintendo/Sakurai clearly always knew that promoting new first-party content is more flexible than "what characters debuted in the last six months?"

If only the modern speculator acknowledged that beyond Ayumi promoting the FDC remake.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

He did not.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Soon.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Are people seriously arguing that ****ing Wario was primarily a promotional pick.

He...kind of was just for his focus on WarioWare, which was/still is more relevant than Wario Land. Sakurai may not have initially thought "Let's put in Wario because of WarioWare", but his Smash content was influenced by the more recent Wario series.

 

[CannonStreak]

That was Alpharad. He also predicted Pyra/Mythra, Sephiroth and Steve for the second pass. Alpharad might be a Smash fortune teller.

Yeah, unlike Vergeben. Sorry, I just had to say that.

 

[Ivander]

The only true “shill picks” (as in characters that can be said to be chosen primarily to advertise upcoming games) are and in the case of the former character, his game was meant to release before Melee in the first place in addition to only being considered because Sakurai wanted extra clones.

Pokemon, people. Pokemon. As Gwen stated, Brawl's development started in 2005, but Diamond and Pearl had been released in 2006, so Lucario was chosen before their game released. And Greninja was chosen while they were still mostly concept art. I can't remember if the same happened with Incineroar. But Lucario and Greninja's cases are like Byleth, as well as Corrin with their Japanese release, where they were chosen before their game had come out.
If Lucario and Greninja don't count because their games were out before they were announced as newcomers, then the same absolutely applies to Corrin and Byleth because Fates was already out in Japan 7-8 months and Three Houses was out 6-7 months before their DLCs.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Well aside from this current debate, does anyone here feel that the spirit of Smash Bros has lost its way over the years?

Personally I feel Smash is stronger than ever in this department. I'm not sure what the problem is, so maybe someone can better explain. Everyone is back, so many returning and new stages, tons of franchises represented old and new, a unique story mode. What's not to like?