Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Technomage]

I am of the opinion that Hylians, Sheikah, Gerudo, angels, goddesses, Hocotatians, Koppaites, demigods (like Byleth), Inklings, Blades, Zenithians, Dragovians, and possibly ARMS fighters and Umbra Witches (since I remember at least a couple of times where Bayo's species is listed as "Umbra Witch") are of a different species from the normal human species due to having plenty of biological differences from them (whereas races have very few biological differences (including personality traits hardwired into our DNA) between each other); however, do Homs and Beorc qualify as different human species, or are they not any biologically different from humans (instead, just being humans with a different name)?

 

[Ivander]

If we were to get an SONY (unlikey as hell) character, who'd you want?

Wander from Shadow of the Colossus. Then the Hunter from Bloodborne. Then Sly Cooper. Then Rachet & Clank.

How would you guys classify Xehanort and Elma? I never really know whether they should count or not.

Xehanort....kinda depends on whether he actually is or is just tanned, because Japan loves their tans. Like, it's not impossible for him to be tanned. But he does retain his skin color throughout his life. Like he is tanned-skinned as a young adult and he remains tanned-skinned as an old man, so it's possible that he does count.
Elma....It really depends on whether you are okay with accepting that despite not being a true "PoC", she did choose to have a form that is "PoC". That said, her true form isn't a normal white person, so I don't see why it would be an issue to consider her a "PoC" anyway, unless you don't count aliens as "PoC", despite the term alien having been used to describe people from different countries and cultures.

 

[Schnee117]

Keep in mind that over 90% of the characters in Smash or in speculation are from Fantasy Worlds and don't fit well into our ideas of race or racial representation.

I would say most of the cast isn't even human but is rather designed to be more like animals or some other non-human form.

Actually the cast leans more towards humans and human analogues and the basis of fantasy is our reality.
Elves (Hylians) are literally just humans with pointy ears and Angels are just humans with wings

A little too late but uhh, are you joking? That's not nice to call someone an idiot.

He takes versus debates too seriously.
Like I think they got Hulk v Broly horrifically wrong but it's whatever lol, the fight itself was really fun to watch, can't wait for the Link v Cloud rematch salt

 

[N3ON]

I am of the opinion that Hylians, Sheikah, Gerudo, angels, goddesses, Hocotatians, Koppaites, demigods (like Byleth), Inklings, Blades, Zenithians, Dragovians, and possibly Umbra Witches (since I remember at least a couple of times where Bayo's species is listed as "Umbra Witch") are of a different species from the normal human species; however, do Homs and Beorc qualify as different human species, or are they not any biologically different from humans (instead, just being humans with a different name)?

One thing that is funny is when people look to Urbosa for racial diversity, it'd be including literally the only race of the four champions that already has a character on the roster.

I know what people mean, it's just an amusing oversight.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

How would you guys classify Xehanort and Elma? I never really know whether they should count or not.

I just wanted to mention that weve seen Xehanorts mother and she isnt a person of color, so Xehanort basically just has a deep tan.

 

[SharkLord]

I just wanted to mention that weve seen Xehanorts mother and she isnt a person of color, so Xehanort basically just has a deep tan.

Or he's biracial, which I don't think we can rule out entirely until we see his dad.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Bro if you used Game & Watch as an example of a black character in Smash on ResetEra, you'd be banned into oblivion lol

Ah yes, the "Sakurai is racist because he didn't choose Twintelle" website.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I just wanted to mention that weve seen Xehanorts mother and she isnt a person of color, so Xehanort basically just has a deep tan.

I mean... He DID live on an island all his life

 

[Mushroomguy12]

One thing that is funny is when people look to Urbosa for racial diversity, it'd be including literally the only race of the four champions that already has a character on the roster.

I know what people mean, it's just an amusing oversight.

What are you talking about? We have Revali's race as well.

 

[Technomage]

What are you talking about? We have Revali's species as well.

Fixed that for ya'.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Can I just say, as a black person, changing a white character skin to dark is not representation of a black person. I feel that's just as harmful as changing a black character on the roster White. I see that a lot on resetera where they say changing link or Zelda or any of the White characters on the roster black would be good representation

 

[Ivander]

Angels are just humans with wings

Not really. There are angels that look like humans, like the ones that came to Lot in Sodom, but not all angels look human.

 

[Technomage]

Not really. There are angels that look like humans, like the ones that came to Lot in Sodom, but not all angels look human.

Plus, angels are quite biologically different from humans, even if you consider them a human subspecies.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I mean... He DID live on an island all his life

Yeah, that's why the tan idea has always been my assumption.

 

[volbound1700]

Yeah, people are really over analysis this to the nth degree. I will say that the Sheikah people appeared to be black in Ocarina of Time as well as the Gerudo. In BOTW, though, they appear to be more Asian. It is hard to tell because it is in a cartoon format in a fantasy world that doesn't play by our rules.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Look I'm just saying.

If you want a black character, who is inarguably black and doesn't have to deal with fantasy race equivalent stuff, in Smash.

Vote for Anthony Higgs.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Dude is ****ing awesome. Unironically the best thing about Other M and is the only part of that game that's legitimately great.

Best part, he's the only living ally Samus has left so he can return in future games.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Can I just say, as a black person, changing a white character skin to dark is not representation of a black person. I feel that's just as harmful as changing a black character on the roster White. I see that a lot on resetera where they say changing link or Zelda or any of the White characters on the roster black would be good representation

Oh my god someone with some reason, this is the first time iver ever seen this opinion online. Thanks,

 

[Dinoman96]

Best part, he's the only living ally Samus has left so he can return in future games.

But he probably won't because he's from Other M lolol

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

They should put Crash Bandicoot as a representation of a black character.

Because Orange Is the New Black ™ .

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But he probably won't because he's from Other M lolol

He was cool man...

 

[Schnee117]

Not really. There are angels that look like humans, like the ones that came to Lot in Sodom, but not all angels look human.

I'm talking about how they're typically depicted in most media these days, not how they actually were depicted way back.
The general presentation is literally a human with wings and that's how Pit and Dark Pit are so the whole "Oh but they aren't really human" angle being said in here falls flat when we're talking representation.

So what Smash gives us is a pair of Greek Angels which is actually kinda cool and unique

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Look I'm just saying.

If you want a black character, who is inarguably black and doesn't have to deal with fantasy race equivalent stuff in Smash.

Vote for Anthony Higgs.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Dude is ****ing awesome. Unironically the best thing about Other M and is the only part of that game that's legitimately great.

Best part, he's the only living ally Samus has left so he can return in future games.

Give Samus friends in Smash 2021.

Source

 

[Schnee117]

He was cool man...

Well yeah, he had an ice gun

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Look I'm just saying.

If you want a black character, who is inarguably black and doesn't have to deal with fantasy race equivalent stuff in Smash.

Vote for Anthony Higgs.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Dude is ****ing awesome. Unironically the best thing about Other M and is the only part of that game that's legitimately great.

Best part, he's the only living ally Samus has left so he can return in future games.

Hell, Rodin is right there too

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Well yeah, he had an ice gun

A black character with ice powers.....

 

[Technomage]

Hell, Rodin is right there too

Are you sure Rodin counts? I made a post questioning it on the last page:

Now here's my question: Would you classify Rodin as truly black? He's not a human, he's a fallen angel turned demon. On the other hand, his angel form does retain traits of an African human (something that his demon form did not do, which is what started my unsureness of whether or not he's truly black).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hell, Rodin is right there too

Rodin didn't do a sick back flip.

So he's a little less cool.

 

[Schnee117]

Are you sure Rodin counts? I made a post questioning it on the last page:

Yes
Just because he isn't called a human doesn't mean he doesn't count as black representation.

 

[osby]

Not really. There are angels that look like humans, like the ones that came to Lot in Sodom, but not all angels look human.

Angels in Kid Icarus are just erotes/putto by a different name, which are basically humans with wings. I don't think it's a series that uses Christian motifs.

 

[N3ON]

I just want Samus to not have the Other M design anymore. Granted, it's one of the parts of Other M that is perfectly alright, I just prefer the other Varia suits. I wish the Metroid 2 remake had been a bit earlier so that design could've been incorporated for Ultimate.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, people are really over analysis this to the nth degree. I will say that the Sheikah people appeared to be black in Ocarina of Time as well as the Gerudo. In BOTW, though, they appear to be more Asian. It is hard to tell because it is in a cartoon format in a fantasy world that doesn't play by our rules.

That's a problem with anime art styles in general, is it's often impossible to distinguish White characters from Asian characters unless it's expressly stated.

For all we know, all the DQ Heroes are actually Asian.

 

[Eldrake]

I just want Samus to not have the Other M design anymore. Granted, it's one of the parts of Other M that is perfectly alright, I just prefer the other Varia suits. I wish the Metroid 2 remake had been a bit earlier so that design could've been incorporated for Ultimate.

Yeah, it's an amazing suit design.

I will be disappointed if the suit don't look even remotely the same in Metroid 5.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Rodin didn't do a sick back flip.

So he's a little less cool.

Damn

 

[blackghost]

Ah yes the episode where those idiots insisted Bayonetta had human-durability despite being able to headbutt a skyscraper with ease and concluded Dante won because he was fast enough to cut raindrops which was from a cinematic cutscene. The fact they also overrated his regeneration to Deadpool's level. Impressive regeneration yes but nowhere close to that level. Shot in the forehead and stabbed through the chest impressive yes, come back when Dante can survive being completely decapitated or capable of regenerating limbs.

Bayonetta should have easily splattered him.

at the time i guess it made some sense but then dmcv happened and dante got his butt whopped by a villain bayonetta would not have struggled with. also they just ignored bayonetta soul sucking weapons in the battle for some reason.


how attached are people to a double reveal? personally due ot covid i dont buy into it thats a lot of dev work in a condensed time. we have already had the devs and sakurai admit how hard steve was and that was the first time theyve ever publically said something like that as far as i know.

as for the representation argument while i get where people are coming from videogames have a past where epopela ctively made decisions to make characters mostly white and mostly male for selling to its audience. even modern beloved characters and seires rarely deviant from the established pattern. for example mass effect just rereleased. a seores known for its representation and diverse cast. there is 1 black woman in the entire series that plays a sigifnigant role in the story and its dlc in 3.

smash is a celebration of videogames but it also highlights how far we have to go. For example if halo started a new series with a new spartan what chance do people honestly think it would be a woman and man of color under the helmet? it is not smashes job to force representation its the industries job to increase it, fans of games will appreicate it. I think requring or expecting japanease game companies to create more black characters is asking an awful lot of them. and even still they produce more than european or American companies.
in the last ten years the only major woman of color introduced in a main title i can remember off the top of my head are jackie briggs, twintelle, the fire girl in infamous 2, and one of the women in uncharted 3 (?) in mortal kombat and she was hated by a large portion of the fanbase. but main characters i got none.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Probably means nothing, but I just found out Ryu Hayabusa's in game canon birthday is June 15th...

these.... "theories" .... they're getting wackier

 

[Ivander]

I'm talking about how they're typically depicted in most media these days, not how they actually were depicted way back.
The general presentation is literally a human with wings and that's how Pit and Dark Pit are so the whole "Oh but they aren't really human" angle being said in here falls flat when we're talking representation.

So what Smash gives us is a pair of Greek Angels which is actually kinda cool and unique

I think it's more of the case of later Christian stuff taking from other things, cause the modern depiction of angels, and Pit and Dark Pit, are based on the Erotes, and most specifically, Eros and Cupid. Like the common depiction of angels is humans with wings, but in the Bible and Jewish texts, aside from the cherubim and Seraphim, no angel or messenger of God is ever described as having wings. So it's ironic that Pit and Dark Pit's designs are supposed to be based on "angels" whose modern depictions were based on Eros, Cupid and the Erotes, the servants or children of the goddess Aphrodite. It comes full circle.

All that aside, Pit and Dark Pit do still work as Greek Angels.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Less then two weeks ago. The time that has flied by still feels so unreal being we're close to the end of Ultimate's run.

 

[Shroob]

Less then two weeks ago. The time that has flied by still feels so unreal being we're close to the end of Ultimate's run.

Potentially, that is.

Always need to margin for a potential solo reveal.

 

[RGFS]

Oh hey, nice to see there's some chat about race representation. People always like talking about gender but Smash is pretty good about that overall when you look at the CSS. Real-life races on the other hand... it could be better. I guess gaming as a whole doesn't have many big-name black characters unfortunately.

At least characters like CJ and Franklin are the main characters of some of the biggest games and one of the biggest series. Also Bella Goth from The Sims seems predominantly Italian, Romani, and or Latina but seemingly has a little from every race in her family tree seemingly so that would be cool too someday. They already have real reasons to get in so the race representation would be icing on the cake.

I find it weird when people say characters with remotely tan skin are black. No offense, but it feels like something only someone who is very pale would say. Not only is their skin brown or tan at most, but as a slightly tan Latino, I have family who has skin just as dark or slightly less many of than them and they're certainly not black. A character like Steve's an avatar so having black alt skins makes sense but his main tan design is clearly not primarily supposed to be black. Especially considering there were many experimental human mobs quickly added and taken away the early days of the game called Steve, Rana, Beast Boy, and Black Steve.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Probably means nothing, but I just found out Ryu Hayabusa's in game canon birthday is June 15th...

these.... "theories" .... they're getting wackier

It's also apparently Crash's 25th anniversary this year.

Doesn't mean they might happen given people we're so certain of Doom Slayer back in December 2020.