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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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GilTheGreat19

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
3,348
Going back to MK,
regarding fighting game reps in general...

The only 4 characters I can think of that they could do other than Scorpion are

Sol Badguy
Chun-Li
Jin Kazama
and lastly
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,862
Going back to MK,
regarding fighting game reps in general...

The only 4 characters I can think of that they could do other than Scorpion are

Sol Badguy
Chun-Li
Jin Kazama
and lastly
I love Killer Instinct. It’s easily my favorite fighting game franchise. I would be hyped getting literally any character from those games.
 
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Garteam

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
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3,210
Location
Canada, eh?
NNID
Garteam
I've been trying to figure out why I dislike the "hype culture" surrounding potential Smash Bros. characters so much and this article finally helped me realize why that is.

This article is solely concerned with the immediate reactions that these characters would bring and gives little, if any, information about how these characters would actually function if they were added. Master Chief and Lloyd get a nice and vague "He has a lot of guns/two swords". Dante and Monster Hunter get a cool "I dunno, just look at MvC/Monster Hunter Rise". Crash gets literally nothing.

It feels like the author views Smash solely as Gaming's Hall of Fame, when the series has always been about so much more than that. If Smash really was just its roster, it wouldn't have lasted this long. Instead, its foundation lies in the unique gameplay that situates the characters and how said characters are translated into this new environment.

If you want an example of what Smash would be like without its solid gameplay, I think J-Stars Victory Vs. and especially Jump Force are where to look. Both games bring some of the most iconic manga characters under one roof to duke it out but can't hold their appeal because the gameplay is an afterthought. Luffy vs. Naruto or Frieza vs. Dio aren't fun when the core gameplay is sluggish and makes the characters feel disconnected from their source material, no matter how "hype" those scenarios are on paper.

That's why it bothers me when someone throws out "lots of people know them, deserves to be in Smash, simple as" or "obscure, doesn't deserve to be in Smash, simple as" because it's largely missing the point of Smash Bros in the first place. Excitement over a character's inclusion fades quickly. Steve's inclusion broke Twitter for the first time in over a decade, no one gives a **** about the spectacle of this event 6 months later. Even Sakurai himself has acknowledged this, adding Sephiroth Challenge because he was frustrated by how quickly new characters fade into the background regardless of their identity.

This isn't to say people aren't allowed to like whatever they like for whatever reason, there are no gameplay merits to inclusions of big names, or all supporters of these characters don't care about the gameplay side of the equation. That would be silly. However, planning solely around reveals and hype is a shortsighted answer to a multivariate question.
 

GilTheGreat19

Smash Master
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
3,348
I've been trying to figure out why I dislike the "hype culture" surrounding potential Smash Bros. characters so much and this article finally helped me realize why that is.

This article is solely concerned with the immediate reactions that these characters would bring and gives little, if any, information about how these characters would actually function if they were added. Master Chief and Lloyd get a nice and vague "He has a lot of guns/two swords". Dante and Monster Hunter get a cool "I dunno, just look at MvC/Monster Hunter Rise". Crash gets literally nothing.

It feels like the author views Smash solely as Gaming's Hall of Fame, when the series has always been about so much more than that. If Smash really was just its roster, it wouldn't have lasted this long. Instead, its foundation lies in the unique gameplay that situates the characters and how said characters are translated into this new environment.

If you want an example of what Smash would be like without its solid gameplay, I think J-Stars Victory Vs. and especially Jump Force are where to look. Both games bring some of the most iconic manga characters under one roof to duke it out but can't hold their appeal because the gameplay is an afterthought. Luffy vs. Naruto or Frieza vs. Dio aren't fun when the core gameplay is sluggish and makes the characters feel disconnected from their source material, no matter how "hype" those scenarios are on paper.

That's why it bothers me when someone throws out "lots of people know them, deserves to be in Smash, simple as" or "obscure, doesn't deserve to be in Smash, simple as" because it's largely missing the point of Smash Bros in the first place. Excitement over a character's inclusion fades quickly. Steve's inclusion broke Twitter for the first time in over a decade, no one gives a **** about the spectacle of this event 6 months later. Even Sakurai himself has acknowledged this, adding Sephiroth Challenge because he was frustrated by how quickly new characters fade into the background regardless of their identity.

This isn't to say people aren't allowed to like whatever they like for whatever reason, there are no gameplay merits to inclusions of big names, or all supporters of these characters don't care about the gameplay side of the equation. That would be silly. However, planning solely around reveals and hype is a shortsighted answer to a multivariate question.
Great argument, dude.

After all,
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,498
Location
Somewhere Out There
I've been trying to figure out why I dislike the "hype culture" surrounding potential Smash Bros. characters so much and this article finally helped me realize why that is.

This article is solely concerned with the immediate reactions that these characters would bring and gives little, if any, information about how these characters would actually function if they were added. Master Chief and Lloyd get a nice and vague "He has a lot of guns/two swords". Dante and Monster Hunter get a cool "I dunno, just look at MvC/Monster Hunter Rise". Crash gets literally nothing.

It feels like the author views Smash solely as Gaming's Hall of Fame, when the series has always been about so much more than that. If Smash really was just its roster, it wouldn't have lasted this long. Instead, its foundation lies in the unique gameplay that situates the characters and how said characters are translated into this new environment.

If you want an example of what Smash would be like without its solid gameplay, I think J-Stars Victory Vs. and especially Jump Force are where to look. Both games bring some of the most iconic manga characters under one roof to duke it out but can't hold their appeal because the gameplay is an afterthought. Luffy vs. Naruto or Frieza vs. Dio aren't fun when the core gameplay is sluggish and makes the characters feel disconnected from their source material, no matter how "hype" those scenarios are on paper.

That's why it bothers me when someone throws out "lots of people know them, deserves to be in Smash, simple as" or "obscure, doesn't deserve to be in Smash, simple as" because it's largely missing the point of Smash Bros in the first place. Excitement over a character's inclusion fades quickly. Steve's inclusion broke Twitter for the first time in over a decade, no one gives a **** about the spectacle of this event 6 months later. Even Sakurai himself has acknowledged this, adding Sephiroth Challenge because he was frustrated by how quickly new characters fade into the background regardless of their identity.

This isn't to say people aren't allowed to like whatever they like for whatever reason, there are no gameplay merits to inclusions of big names, or all supporters of these characters don't care about the gameplay side of the equation. That would be silly. However, planning solely around reveals and hype is a shortsighted answer to a multivariate question.
I think this is an unfortunate consequence of people hearing “Sakurai can make a cool set for anyone” for the past few years and for good reason: There are but a few characters that couldn’t go the distance and have a gamebreaking moveset. Even if the characters in their own game don’t have the sparkliest moveset potential as we’ve seen with R.O.B and even moveset potential megaton K. Rool got the new belly mechanic that wasn’t directly present in his home game. And so, moveset speculation turns into a black box where everything can happen once it gets cooking in Sakurai’s brain. Thus, the functional part of a character leaves little differentiation; if Steve, Piranha Plant and Min Min all have great movesets, it’s the name that remains.
 

spicynun

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 7, 2020
Messages
333
I think it’s mostly a joke. I’m sure Banjo was on Sakurai’s radar, and when talks began to get Minecraft in smash he may have brought up Banjo and Phil was down. Or maybe Phil brought it up and Sakurai was down.

Either way they’re in the game now. And I’m happy about that!
I think that was more a joke than anything. I expect the reality is Banjo and Steve could've happened independently of each other, though both required the current cooperation between the companies to materialize. I think ascribing one as leverage or mandatory for the other is a bit tinfoil-y.
I think it's mostly a joke after how Banjo fans claim that every third party they don't like got in thanks to contract shenanigans.
I thought it was a joke too at first, but I've actually seen people here use it in arguments. I remember specifically seeing the phrase "We all know that Banjo only got in due to Steve shenanigans anyways" when arguing against Banjo in the context of talking about what Microsoft character would be on the xbox version of smash if it was a thing among a few other places. If it really was just a joke, then it has gotten to the point where enough people have used it in a serious context where I felt the need to ask what the source is.
 

PeridotGX

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
8,821
Location
That Distant Shore
NNID
Denoma5280
Going back to MK,
regarding fighting game reps in general...

The only 4 characters I can think of that they could do other than Scorpion are

Sol Badguy
Chun-Li
Jin Kazama
and lastly
PMEX (the brawl mod I talk about a lot) has a really odd selection of Fighting Game reps. You have the three in canon Smash, Sub-Zero (who's a bit odd to have instead of Scorpion but still pretty OK), and Nu-13 from BlazBlue (who I didn't even know existed until she was added). It's not bad, I kinda like the mod's unusual choices (it's hardly limited to Fighting Game Characters), but it has to be mentioned.
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
Who's that?
Fulgore, one of the more famous Killer Instinct characters. Most notably the KI SNES boxart:



Pretty much a robot who's built around overclocking itself and strong pressure game. Plays kinda similarily to :ultken: , but with a teleport and ROB's laser and as such can also play a zoning game. In KI 2013 he doesn't have the standard super meter, rather he has a Reactor Meter (ten maximum pips) that fills whenever he attacks and slows down whether not attacking; and using the energy based special attacks depletes one pip. His super mode is the aformentioned overclocking, where the Reactor Meter goes ****ing berserk and starts to overcharge. The Reactor Meter can also be Fulgore's prime weakness since he needs some of it filled in order to stop offensive blockstrings - that and Fulgore is inherently kinda bad at resource management since the beams form part of his pressure game.
 
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Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
I got a question: If Smash 6/Ultimate Deluxe were to revamp its water mechanic, how should it be?
 

PK Duststorm

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 15, 2020
Messages
83
I've been trying to figure out why I dislike the "hype culture" surrounding potential Smash Bros. characters so much and this article finally helped me realize why that is.

This article is solely concerned with the immediate reactions that these characters would bring and gives little, if any, information about how these characters would actually function if they were added. Master Chief and Lloyd get a nice and vague "He has a lot of guns/two swords". Dante and Monster Hunter get a cool "I dunno, just look at MvC/Monster Hunter Rise". Crash gets literally nothing.

It feels like the author views Smash solely as Gaming's Hall of Fame, when the series has always been about so much more than that. If Smash really was just its roster, it wouldn't have lasted this long. Instead, its foundation lies in the unique gameplay that situates the characters and how said characters are translated into this new environment.

If you want an example of what Smash would be like without its solid gameplay, I think J-Stars Victory Vs. and especially Jump Force are where to look. Both games bring some of the most iconic manga characters under one roof to duke it out but can't hold their appeal because the gameplay is an afterthought. Luffy vs. Naruto or Frieza vs. Dio aren't fun when the core gameplay is sluggish and makes the characters feel disconnected from their source material, no matter how "hype" those scenarios are on paper.

That's why it bothers me when someone throws out "lots of people know them, deserves to be in Smash, simple as" or "obscure, doesn't deserve to be in Smash, simple as" because it's largely missing the point of Smash Bros in the first place. Excitement over a character's inclusion fades quickly. Steve's inclusion broke Twitter for the first time in over a decade, no one gives a **** about the spectacle of this event 6 months later. Even Sakurai himself has acknowledged this, adding Sephiroth Challenge because he was frustrated by how quickly new characters fade into the background regardless of their identity.

This isn't to say people aren't allowed to like whatever they like for whatever reason, there are no gameplay merits to inclusions of big names, or all supporters of these characters don't care about the gameplay side of the equation. That would be silly. However, planning solely around reveals and hype is a shortsighted answer to a multivariate question.
Great points made. Once you're one of the boys/girls, your character's own shine is absorbed into the shine of the entire roster. Anybody added does become another gear in the machine. With such a large scope, it can get kinda homogeneous. Ultimate's success still comes with its trade offs.


It is always more interesting to see people go beyond surface level. I see Crash working in this game on two points. Firstly being that he is a platformer, which typically is an easy translation to smash. Secondly, most of his trademark moves already have equivalents in Ultimate to base off of.

Spin could be a light multihit (a la Steve jab/ftilt) and/or have a stronger finish similar to DK. Sliding is covered by FF and Belmont squad, so even having a long jump out of said slide is already here. Wumpa bazooka could be funnier nikita. Crate spawning would function similar to hydrant and anvil (or sonic spring and banjo up b). Aku aku could be some fusion of Revenge and Rebels Guard, possibly cycling through a level of slight buffs to maybe even Invincibility (until you attack or grab, or a 5 second timer). Take some moves from sonic, banjo, or the spacies just for simple punches and kicks.

Chief, as much as I would love him... I havent made it that far with a concept due to never having an xbox. I imagine he would start with a base of samus and, much like Hero from Link, proceed to go in a very different direction for the moveset.
 
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Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,862
I got a question: If Smash 6/Ultimate Deluxe were to revamp its water mechanic, how should it be?
Are you referring to water as a stage element or water as an attack element like F.L.U.D.D, Squirtle, or Greninja? For stages, it would be cool if we had a little more actions we could take while swimming like diving underwater of a basic attack. That might be too much work though.
 
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Technomage

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 18, 2019
Messages
2,289
Are you referring to water as a stage element or water as an attack element like F.L.U.D.D, Squirtle, or Greninja? For stages, it would be cool if we had a little more actions we could take while swimming like diving underwater of a basic attack. That might be too much work though.
Interesting. And yes, I was talking about the stage element.
 

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,436
I got a question: If Smash 6/Ultimate Deluxe were to revamp its water mechanic, how should it be?
Well, I would certainly like them to fix how their characters swim in the water. I understand you aren't really supposed to focus on them swimming since you can't stay in the water for long, so you try to jump out of the water quickly, but good lord. When you use the Spirits that allow your character to stay in the water indefinitely, most of the swimming animations are incredibly awful with how they try to stay afloat.
And as a former competitive swimmer myself who still loves swimming and wants to teach swimming, some of the animations are like, "Swimming like that would take so much of your energy that it's not wonder they find themselves drowning quickly."
 
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PeridotGX

Smash Hero
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Jun 8, 2017
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Location
That Distant Shore
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Denoma5280
I got a question: If Smash 6 were to revamp its water mechanic, how should it be?
There's no point in revamping it unless we get more water stages to use new mechanics. There's only a handful at the moment, and in half of them you either aren't supposed to swim in them (Jungle Japes, Summit) or only sometimes have the option (Delfino, Wuhu).
 

SKX31

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
3,462
Location
Sweden
I got a question: If Smash 6/Ultimate Deluxe were to revamp its water mechanic, how should it be?
The year is 20WX. Everyone plays Tidus at TAS levels of perfection (while imitating his laugh at the end of every match). The peasants live in poverty while the Tidus mains - in their monasteries - have played so much levitating Blitzball that they solved Smash via Blitzball. Because of this, the winner of a match depends solely on who can do the most literal wavedashes in just one second. The lone heroes desperately trying to prevent the oncoming Tidus apocalypse play Squirtle and Greninja.

:4pacman:
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
9,677
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
Imagine fighting underwater in smash
I’ve wanted an underwater stage for a long time. I made a partially underwater stage in Stage Builder based on the first stage of DKC3. Having wind blow upwards from the bottom of the stage simulates water pretty well.
Melee fans: Yeah, we dislike the later games because they're too slow.

Underwater stages: I'm about to do what's called a pro gamer move. :4pacman:
 
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Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
9,677
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
The year is 20WX. Everyone plays Tidus at TAS levels of perfection (while imitating his laugh at the end of every match). The peasants live in poverty while the Tidus mains - in their monasteries - have played so much levitating Blitzball that they solved Smash via Blitzball. Because of this, the winner of a match depends solely on who can do the most literal wavedashes in just one second. The lone heroes desperately trying to prevent the oncoming Tidus apocalypse play Squirtle and Greninja.

:4pacman:
Toadette then gets added and obliterates everyone with her built in Penguin Suit abilities. :4pacman:
 

CrusherMania1592

Deaf Smasher
Premium
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We talking Mortal Kombat?

Perhaps if they ease up with the blood and guts, we'll be having to not worrying about fighting for the fallen for which becomes a revolution towards the series as a whole


But seriously, I'm not all crazy about the blood and gore. Just keep it to a minimum and focus on making the games better
 
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