Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

Actually, just thought of something:
For those who don't know, big name FGC YouTuber Maximillian Dood KNEW about the Street Fighter x Fortnite crossover beforehand because he was asked by Epic to promote it in some ways but denied the offer.
What if a big name LoL player like Tyler1 gets asked to promote a Smash x LoL crossover in some way?

After all, Tyler1's been playing smash with MKleo a bit lately...

Does Tyler1 have a “main” in LoL or does he play whomever?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Does Tyler1 have a “main” in LoL or does he play whomever?

He plays quite frequently.
So MAYBE him? Imma double check.

Update: Seems he also likes to play .

 

[Rie Sonomura]

He plays quite frequently.
So MAYBE him? Imma double check.

...I meant in LoL lmao

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I would've roughly agreed if Jiggs was indeed cut during Brawl's development - it's worth noting that Hungrybox didn't start to become well-known until 2008 / 2009. I'm not going to pretend that HBox is a primary factor in this context - he isn't - but he's heavily identified with Puff for a good reason.

Now though, it's a bit of a different story mostly because Jigglypuff has a whole lot more history behind it and has already survived previous close calls. As such it's arguably more difficult to cut it now (barring situations where they have much less time than they had back in Brawl). Also, Jigglypuff continues to be prominently featured in ads, such as this one a couple months ago.

It has a sizeable casual playerbase - 27th most used online according to ultimategamedata, slightly behind Samus and a bit ahead of Kirby in terms of usage (Puff is 10th out of the 12 64 characters - Fox is actually the least used amongst the Original 12). Quite a lot of casual players choose Jigglypuff not just because it is appealing (although that is a primary factor) but also because it has a strong aerial game + some flashy stuff like Drill -> Rest. On the more Serious Business side, BassMage and Arika are notable Puff players in Ultimate.

It's difficult to judge how much of an impact history actually has - while we do know it plays a part (otherwise Sakurai would've been more open to just reworking characters from the ground up) we don't know if it's going to be a big factor going into Smash 6. Still though, I wouldn't be surprised if the sheer inertia that has been built up at this point helps Jigglypuff from now on.

The best comparison Jigglypuff would have would be someone like Roy, that despite not being particularly popular among the Western Fire Emblem fanbase, established himself as enough of a Smash fan favourite to the point of returning as DLC due to fan demand. It also helps in this scenario that aside from someone like Waluigi, there is really no other potential newcomer that has reached the same type of of overwhelming fan demand as the likes of K. Rool, Ridley and Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[Guynamednelson]

He plays quite frequently.

Playing DK and getting 0-to-death'd every time would provide the same amount of torture as playing LoL.

 

[7NATOR]

So here comes that alleycat Samus Hunter with some kind of Smash thing. In her words:

" As for Smash, the 12.0 update is scheduled after e3, with an early July release at max. Sakurai has already recorded the penultimate Sakurai Presents whose content will be announced during E3 (the script for the translators has not yet arrived, so I do not know who it will be) "

https://twitter.com/SamusHunter2/status/1398993271326752769

I know that's not... THE MOST amazing thing to ever hear and that it isn't something we haven't already been guessing ourselves, but there ya go. Something to chew on and scream at each other over.

I would say it make sense

One thing I realized is that we have never gotten a DLC Character Revealed and Released on the same day in Ultimate DLC, and we actually haven't gotten that situation since Roy and Ryu in Smash 4

at the Least, the characters come out a Week or two after reveal (Sephiroth, Kind of Min-Min, Byleth, Steve), So I guess we might be seeing that same time frame for the reveal at E3

The 2 other things that stand out to me about this is that

-This tweet might be implying only one reveal.
-The E3 Character(s) are definitely getting leaked beforehand

 

[dream1ng]

Actually, just thought of something:
For those who don't know, big name FGC YouTuber Maximillian Dood KNEW about the Street Fighter x Fortnite crossover beforehand because he was asked by Epic to promote it in some ways but denied the offer.
What if a big name LoL player like Tyler1 gets asked to promote a Smash x LoL crossover in some way?

After all, Tyler1's been playing smash with MKleo a bit lately...

I think Epic and Nintendo have very different priorities when it comes to using "influencers" in their promotion.

Wouldn't there have been countless Minecraft players they could've partnered with?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

...I meant in LoL lmao

Oh LMAO

Yea he plays this Tree Dude called Ivern, apparently the 4th best player on this character worldwide...

Also plays Draven. According to some Google sources.

 

[dream1ng]

I would say it make sense

One thing I realized is that we have never gotten a DLC Character Revealed and Released on the same day in Ultimate DLC, and we actually haven't gotten that situation since Roy and Ryu in Smash 4

at the Least, the characters come out a Week or two after reveal (Sephiroth, Kind of Min-Min, Byleth, Steve), So I guess we might be seeing that same time frame for the reveal at E3

The 2 other things that stand out to me about this is that

-This tweet might be implying only one reveal.
-The E3 Character(s) are definitely getting leaked beforehand

This is a preposterously safe claim so it will probably be true, but in general Samus Hunter is not a reputable source, so don't invest in what they have to say.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I think Epic and Nintendo have very different priorities when it comes to using "influencers" in their promotion.

Wouldn't there have been countless Minecraft players they could've partnered with?

Fair point..

 

[subterrestrial]

next dlc isnt gonna be third party, they always save the promos for the last

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh LMAO

Yea he plays this Tree Dude called Ivern, apparently the 4th best player on this character worldwide...

Also plays Draven. According to some Google sources.

Ngl Draven would be hilarious if we got his Draven Draven skin as an alt

it looks like a bobblehead LUL

 

[venomthebest]

Ya know what bonus content I'd like to see beyond characters and stages and such? A classic route for the Mii fighters! They are in the classic route mural art for crying out loud!!!

 

[Pillow]

Actually, just thought of something:
For those who don't know, big name FGC YouTuber Maximillian Dood KNEW about the Street Fighter x Fortnite crossover beforehand because he was asked by Epic to promote it in some ways but denied the offer.
What if a big name LoL player like Tyler1 gets asked to promote a Smash x LoL crossover in some way?

After all, Tyler1's been playing smash with MKleo a bit lately...

Nintendo has never really cared much about the community aspect of their games, and has always marched to their own beat. There's pretty much 0 chance of something like this happening.

 

[Momotsuki]

That doesn't check out. If there's one thing Nintendo hates more than people not playing their games... it's people playing their games.

 

[spicynun]

Actually, just thought of something:
For those who don't know, big name FGC YouTuber Maximillian Dood KNEW about the Street Fighter x Fortnite crossover beforehand because he was asked by Epic to promote it in some ways but denied the offer.
What if a big name LoL player like Tyler1 gets asked to promote a Smash x LoL crossover in some way?

After all, Tyler1's been playing smash with MKleo a bit lately...

I doubt it. Smash seems to keep things way under wraps compared to Fortnite, iirc Sakurai mentioned that not even some of the employees at Nintendo knew Byleth was going to be the next character at the time. I doubt they would let a streamer know beforehand if that was the case. Also almost every crossover for Fortnite so far has been leaked one way or another before the actual announcement compared to Smash which has been tightly sealed regarding leaks for awhile now.

 

[7NATOR]

Ya know what bonus content I'd like to see beyond characters and stages and such? A classic route for the Mii fighters! They are in the classic route mural art for crying out loud!!!

Miis get disrespected. I also don't think you allowed to get them from Random

I also would like to see an update to Classic Mode. Either bring back the Original concept of Classic Mode (from Melee, Brawl, 3ds), or make it so any character could do any character's classic route (Mario being able to do Terry's Classic Route)

Of course, Smash Run is the best thing they could add to the game, but they probably wouldn't do that Unfortunately

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Ya know what bonus content I'd like to see beyond characters and stages and such? A classic route for the Mii fighters! They are in the classic route mural art for crying out loud!!!

Especially since you could play them in classic in Smash 4.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’m leaning towards One First Party and One Third Party. Nintendo has always ended Smash DLC with a First Party so its safe to assume that will repeat. Another 3rd Party also seems fitting.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Aside from Roy and Ryu no Smash 4 DLC got leaked right? I know Cloud was more “hinted” with Tansut’s Star Wars allegory/analogy/idk the word but it begins with an A thing. WHAT ARE WORDS

but yeah, for sure, Corrin and Bayonetta weren’t leaked of that I’m certain

unless Nintendo screws up big time or it’s an unexpected third party like Riot or an indie I don’t think the last ones will be leaked

now base game next Smash/Ult DX base game? THE FLOODGATES SHALL OPEN

 

[True Blue Warrior]

On the note of newcomer trailers, were revealed significantly later in the trailer.

 

[Momotsuki]

We do need some standalone DLC stages, though it certainly seems too far in to get a meaningful amount of them. If I had it my way, though... Give me the Nexus from Yume Nikki (transforming into the various areas within the game). Or LSDDE as a whole (Mario Maker-style randomization, the Grey Man as an Ultimate Chimera-like stage hazard). Tong Nou, even.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I’m leaning towards One First Party and One Third Party. Nintendo has always ended Smash DLC with a First Party so its safe to assume that will repeat. Another 3rd Party also seems fitting.

I missed the part where Bayonetta was first party.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I missed the part where Bayonetta was first party.

Was gonna say the same thing.

 

[Momotsuki]

I missed the part where Bayonetta was first party.

Honestly, nowadays she's a bit of a grey area in that regard. Almost a sort of honorary first-party at this point.
At the very least, she's certainly the least-guest of the third parties.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Honestly, nowadays she's a bit of a grey area in that regard. Almost a sort of honorary first-party at this point.

I understand why you would say that, but she's still 100% 3rd party.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I missed the part where Bayonetta was first party.

She was revealed alongside Corrin. Maybe they haven’t always ended they’re passes with a full First Party, but at the time when all characters in a pack are revealed, theres always been a First Party.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I would best describe Bayonetta as a “niche third party”

like how Ryu, Cloud, Hero, Banjo, Steve and Sephiroth (and Joker, depending) are “major” third parties. Terry could also fall into the “niche” side

so yeah

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Honestly, part of me DOESNT want CP11 to be a first party.

Byleth was CP5, right? Mans got a standalone direct that was hyped up (sure people didn't hype up responsibly and never truly will) and unless I'm mistaken, there were MOSTLY negative connotations towards the character's reveal. Many said, "bad way to end the pass"

I'd rather NOT have such negativity again. But we will..

sigh

 

[Schnee117]

On the note of newcomer trailers, were revealed significantly later in the trailer.

I remember so many people thinking Rosalina's trailer was Air Ride 2 or Kirby in Mario Kart at first lol

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Honestly, part of me DOESNT want CP11 to be a first party.

Byleth was CP5, right? Mans got a standalone direct that was hyped up (sure people didn't hype up responsibly and never truly will) and unless I'm mistaken, there were MOSTLY negative connotations towards the character's reveal. Many said, "bad way to end the pass"

I'd rather NOT have such negativity again. But we will..

sigh

Byleth got that negativity because they were another FE character, not cause they were a first party.

 

[Technomage]

We do need some standalone DLC stages, though it certainly seems too far in to get a meaningful amount of them. If I had it my way, though... Give me the Nexus from Yume Nikki (transforming into the various areas within the game). Or LSDDE as a whole (Mario Maker-style randomization, the Grey Man as an Ultimate Chimera-like stage hazard). Tong Nou, even.

Yeah, DLC stages are also a great way to represent famous franchises that don't have much material for a fighter without going the Captain Falcon route (such as a Gran Turismo stage).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Especially since you could play them in classic in Smash 4.

Which had no specific route. This is a completely different kind of Classic Mode from previous games, the first ever to have a route based upon the character alone. Previous ones can be semi-specific(like Brawl's) or even the same for the most part(64's), but they're still pretty similar otherwise. Like, the only thing Brawl does differently is removed pure RNG for semi-RNG and remove most of the cool mini-games and forces you to do a generic Target Smash twice in a row. 4 has no mini-games(Wii U version does actually have a more indepth Classic, but it's also less balanced in return).

They just need to figure out a logical route for them, and that's it. One that represents swordfighter, one that represents gunners, and one that represents brawlers. That's not hard to do. Since they're separated by type, they'd still need 3 routes. I wonder if the fact they're on a single drop down menu relates to the reason. Since that means it was a programming-related issue. In a similar way that costumes can't have their own player data, you can't record which Mii specifically went through Classic. They also could just have default Miis to use with three separate Classic Modes, the ones that are the same as World of Light. Sure, you can't use all your cool costumes, but you could use customs either anyway in this case.

...Wait, can you even use your Spirits during Classic Mode? I forget. I haven't played it in a while. Even then, just see below for a great idea of how to implement them in a way that makes sure everybody has choices. Spirits or not.

My guess is they ran out of time to figure out a proper way to implement them in a way that satisfies people who actually like using the Mii Costumes, and scrapped the idea. It'd be a great way to end off Smash Ultimate, giving them a proper Classic Mode for each one separately. You could also just have it so they each get their own drop down menu and you can choose your costumes or stay default there. That way it doesn't have any fighter data oddities, and satisfies the rest.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Byleth got that negativity because they were another FE character, not cause they were a first party.

That too.
Although, I honestly think this is true, third parties are always received better.

But yea, you do be right Mushroomguy.

 

[Momotsuki]

Master Core is far and away the best boss in the series, it got done dirty being behind a rather weak Classic Mode.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If there was one final first party, I think Octoling would generate the least salt. Still salt, just not as much as Yet Another Fire Emblem Character or most other options

Like Ayumi, several would be like “literally whomst”
Or a Pokémon, especially a Gen 8, would cause infighting depending on who got the exact Pokémon they wanted and who didn’t, and I guess the controversy of Gen 8 as a whole

and then there’s Elma, I know it won’t happen but I want it. But people will be like “We JUST got Pyra and Mythra is Xenoblade the new Fire Emblem??”

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Master Core is far and away the best boss in the series, it got done dirty being behind a rather weak Classic Mode.

inb4 Tabuu makes his grand return

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It’s also possible that Byleth was chosen as a Corrin-like “strike the iron when its hot” pick and that they didn’t reserve space for such a character in FP2, especially since I’m pressed to find a game with a similar timeframe to Corrin (remember Fates was out in Japan for I think half a year before Corrin was chosen or revealed, don’t remember)

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

We do need some standalone DLC stages, though it certainly seems too far in to get a meaningful amount of them. If I had it my way, though... Give me the Nexus from Yume Nikki (transforming into the various areas within the game). Or LSDDE as a whole (Mario Maker-style randomization, the Grey Man as an Ultimate Chimera-like stage hazard). Tong Nou, even.

As much as I’d love an LSDDE Stage, I feel like it wouldn’t happen regardless of how many hypothetical stages Ultimate could get.

I’d kill for any Yumi Nikki content of any kind though. A nexus stage would be great.

 

[7NATOR]

Aside from Roy and Ryu no Smash 4 DLC got leaked right? I know Cloud was more “hinted” with Tansut’s Star Wars allegory/analogy/idk the word but it begins with an A thing. WHAT ARE WORDS

but yeah, for sure, Corrin and Bayonetta weren’t leaked of that I’m certain

unless Nintendo screws up big time or it’s an unexpected third party like Riot or an indie I don’t think the last ones will be leaked

now base game next Smash/Ult DX base game? THE FLOODGATES SHALL OPEN

The Pattern I would say is relevant is that every Smash E3 Reveal has been leaked earlier than the actual reveal

-Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Miis, Palutena, PAC-MAN were leaked very early on thanks to Gematsu

-Roy and Ryu were leaked by Ingame data

-Everyone is here, Along with Daisy and Ridley were leaked

-Hero and Banjo were leaked

-There was no E3 in 2020

The good thing is most of the time, this usually comes only a day, or sometimes hours before the actual presentation, and and a few of these were low-key, so people didn't know about it, meaning we could still get surprised

But since people, especially nowadays, are on the prowl for any type of leak or rumor, any E3 leak from a credible source is more likely to be known