Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[LiveStudioAudience]

A person like Hotgirlvideo69 existing makes me wonder if there's an inverse equivalent out there called something like CoolGamerStream24/7 who makes claims about people's upcoming OnlyFans content that never actually pans out or is ever accurate.

 

[volbound1700]

I really think you're overlooking how popular and emblematic Sephiroth is. Not that the others aren't "iconic", but Sephiroth is definitely more popular than these characters if you ask me.

In any case, I don't think more appearances = more deserving/iconic works. Obviously, if a character appears in 10 games instead of 1, that means said character will have more chances to be a popular name among fans. But it doesn't mean that's always the case.

I would argue Doom is far more popular than Final Fantasy all-time. You didn't live through mid-1990s, it was everywhere. I would give it to you on some of the others. However, keep in mind that FF7 now has 2 characters, not just 1. If Seph was the first FF7 character, I wouldn't even be making the argument. My point is that Final Fantasy 7 got a lot of love for a game that didn't even make an initial appearance on Nintendo systems, has content from only one game (if they had other Final Fantasy games represented, that actually would have been nice kind of like with Hero), and a game that is far more popular in Japan than in the West.

Here is a good video though that ranks the series based on sales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZl5FL4XeYM&t=3s

Granted, I think it underestimates arcade characters like Pacman.

 

[Nekoo]

I would argue Doom is far more popular than Final Fantasy all-time. You didn't live through mid-1990s, it was everywhere. I would give it to you on some of the others. However, keep in mind that FF7 now has 2 characters, not just 1. If Seph was the first FF7 character, I wouldn't even be making the argument. My point is that Final Fantasy 7 got a lot of love for a game that didn't even make an initial appearance on Nintendo systems, has content from only one game (if they had other Final Fantasy games represented, that actually would have been nice kind of like with Hero), and a game that is far more popular in Japan than in the West.

Here is a good video though that ranks the series based on sales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZl5FL4XeYM&t=3s

Granted, I think it underestimates arcade characters like Pacman.

I'd argue literally everything you said about FFVII but that's not even necessary and I believe this is all an incredible bait that anyone can see.
Once again Sales isn't what make a spot or what decide how big your mark on gaming history is.


Doomslayer would be a ****ing banger in Smash Bros, and Doom is absolutely freaking important to gaming history alongside Wolfenstein tho-

 

[Shroob]

I would argue Doom is far more popular than Final Fantasy all-time. You didn't live through mid-1990s, it was everywhere. I would give it to you on some of the others. However, keep in mind that FF7 now has 2 characters, not just 1. If Seph was the first FF7 character, I wouldn't even be making the argument. My point is that Final Fantasy 7 got a lot of love for a game that didn't even make an initial appearance on Nintendo systems, has content from only one game (if they had other Final Fantasy games represented, that actually would have been nice kind of like with Hero), and a game that is far more popular in Japan than in the West.

Here is a good video though that ranks the series based on sales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZl5FL4XeYM&t=3s

Granted, I think it underestimates arcade characters like Pacman.

I mean, again though, you're looking at it wrong.


Like, first off, how exactly can you say that "Doom is more popular than Final Fantasy"? What's your proof of that?


Like, if we're going off sales, and forgive me since I'm only doing this off super quick, rushed research, but Wikipedia lists the DOOM Franchise as a lifetime total of 10 million sales, again, don't know how accurate that is...

And Final Fantasy as about 159 million, with almost 11 million of said copies being Final Fantasy 7, alone.


Like, again, I don't know if those DOOM numbers are accurate, but if it's true, then FF7 alone has sold about as many copies of every DOOM game combined.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

lmao not hotgirlsvideo69 bro

I didn’t realise it was her because of the changed username.

 

[SharkLord]

My two cents on the matter is that iconicness will always be different across platforms, regions, age groups, and personal interests, so I've basically just given up on trying to measure it beyond "Are they iconic enough?" And in my case, my bar of entry is real darn low compared to everyone else's, so most of the time they are indeed iconic enough.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

What did hotgirlvideos69 do?

 

[Shroob]

What did hotgirlvideos69 do?

Nothing of value, as usual.

 

[Gnateb]

What did hotgirlvideos69 do?

Got some stuff right but I think more wrong?

 

[Shroob]

Got some stuff right but I think more wrong?

They're not a valuable source for info.


Reminder, they used cropped porn to "leak" CP9.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

HGV also scarred us for life with THAT

IF YOU KNOW... you know.

GDI SHROOB YOU WERENT SUPPOSED TO SAY IT

 

[Shroob]

HGV also scarred us for life with THAT

IF YOU KNOW... you know.

GDI SHROOB YOU WERENT SUPPOSED TO SAY IT

It's better that they know the truth outright tbh. That way, we can discard them completely in the future.

 

[Will]

I didn’t realise it was her because of the changed username.

she's been going under "tiffany treadmore" for a long time now i think you just dont remember

 

[volbound1700]

I mean, again though, you're looking at it wrong.


Like, first off, how exactly can you say that "Doom is more popular than Final Fantasy"? What's your proof of that?


Like, if we're going off sales, and forgive me since I'm only doing this off super quick, rushed research, but Wikipedia lists the DOOM Franchise as a lifetime total of 10 million sales, again, don't know how accurate that is...

And Final Fantasy as about 159 million, with almost 11 million of said copies being Final Fantasy 7, alone.


Like, again, I don't know if those DOOM numbers are accurate, but if it's true, then FF7 alone has sold about as many copies of every DOOM game combined.

Maybe it is just where I live, I live in the United States/Tennessee. First Person Shooters are definitely more popular than JRPG games. I know very few people that have played FF7 but nearly everyone has played Doom. After looking at the notes, you maybe right. Granted, Doom Episode 1 was released initially as Shareware.

I concede that Final Fantasy is bigger than Doom when it comes to sale. Iconic ness is arguable since Doom was one of the first true 3D-style games and first true popular FPS (Wolfenstein predated it but was not near as intricate of a game).

Some of it is due to my age, Franchises that were big in my time (NES and SNES era as a child) are not well known today so the wide net is not capturing me very often. Heck, even Banjo seems fairly new to me when you take that into account.

As stated, it makes sense for Nintendo to appeal to Japanese audience as well. That is their bread and butter historically for sales and dependability. It just leaves someone like me standing on sideline.

 

[Shroob]

Maybe it is just where I live, I live in the United States/Tennessee. First Person Shooters are definitely more popular than JRPG games. I know very few people that have played FF7 but nearly everyone has played Doom. After looking at the notes, you maybe right. Granted, Doom Episode 1 was released initially as Shareware.

I concede that Final Fantasy is bigger than Doom when it comes to sale. Iconic ness is arguable since Doom was one of the first true 3D-style games and first true popular FPS (Wolfenstein predated it but was not near as intricate of a game).

Some of it is due to my age, Franchises that were big in my time (NES and SNES era as a child) are not well known today so the wide net is not capturing me very often. Heck, even Banjo seems fairly new to me when you take that into account.

As stated, it makes sense for Nintendo to appeal to Japanese audience as well. That is their bread and butter historically for sales and dependability. It just leaves someone like me standing on sideline.

I mean, I myself am 30, and when I was in school, the playground was always "Link can beat Cloud. Nuh uh, Cloud can destroy Link!", and it's not like early Internet culture didn't reflect that either(Newgrounds, YTMND, Ebaumsworld, etc).

Like, I think it speaks volumes about Sephiroth as a character that most people watching the trailer knew who it was when the literal first drumbeat of One Winged Angel hit. That, is a hard thing to do, but if you're soo iconic that the literal first note of your themesong has people freaking out, that to me says everything.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Doomguy could make for a good E3 reveal.

That's it, that the post.
And if he does, glad the Vault Boy Mii Costume isn't our only form of Bethesda representation.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They're not a valuable source for info.


Reminder, they used cropped porn to "leak" CP9.

Wasn't it just a pixelized picture of Johnny Knoxville with a freaking lightsaber?

 

[SNEKeater]

I would argue Doom is far more popular than Final Fantasy all-time. You didn't live through mid-1990s, it was everywhere. I would give it to you on some of the others. However, keep in mind that FF7 now has 2 characters, not just 1. If Seph was the first FF7 character, I wouldn't even be making the argument. My point is that Final Fantasy 7 got a lot of love for a game that didn't even make an initial appearance on Nintendo systems, has content from only one game (if they had other Final Fantasy games represented, that actually would have been nice kind of like with Hero), and a game that is far more popular in Japan than in the West.

Here is a good video though that ranks the series based on sales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZl5FL4XeYM&t=3s

Granted, I think it underestimates arcade characters like Pacman.

I'm not arguing Doom and Final Fantasy. My post was about the characters. Doom being more popular than FF doesn't mean Doomguy is more popular than Cloud or Sephiroth.

To clarify... for me, popularity and being more or less known aren't necessarily the same. To put an example someone presented here a while ago that seemed very on point IMO: Lara Croft is undeniably a very well known character. But for different reasons she seems to be not that popular in Smash speculation. It isn't the exact same case as here, but I think the point I'm trying to make should be more clear now. People barely talked about Doomguy the character, not just for Smash but in general, before Doom 2016 and Eternal.

Besides that, it depends, as SharkLord said. For me, Final Fantasy was "everywhere", not Doom. I guess me being mostly a console kid back then influenced that.

I can understand your point about FF7 having 2 characters, but you have to realize that it was the first time a third party series got 2 unique characters. I'm sure other 3rd party franchises already in Smash will eventually get an unique character in the future.

And I don't think FF7 not being on the N64 back then should be even mentioned... because you can say that, but at this point it's clear that a strong Nintendo presence is not mandatory. And well, even if that was the case, FFVII was such a groundbreaking title in the industry, and that single fact could justify not apply these rules in this case. Specially if you're someone who believes Smash is a videogame Hall of Fame.

 

[Shroob]

Wasn't it just a pixelized picture of Travis holding a freaking lightsaber?

Jury's out tbh. At the time, the common consensus was that it was porn, due to the mouth.


But it's best to leave that stone unturned.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A person like Hotgirlvideo69 existing makes me wonder if there's an inverse equivalent out there called something like CoolGamerStream24/7 who makes claims about people's upcoming OnlyFans content that never actually pans out or is ever accurate.

ColdManPhotos420

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Maybe it is just where I live, I live in the United States/Tennessee. First Person Shooters are definitely more popular than JRPG games. I know very few people that have played FF7 but nearly everyone has played Doom. After looking at the notes, you maybe right. Granted, Doom Episode 1 was released initially as Shareware.

I concede that Final Fantasy is bigger than Doom when it comes to sale. Iconic ness is arguable since Doom was one of the first true 3D-style games and first true popular FPS (Wolfenstein predated it but was not near as intricate of a game).

Some of it is due to my age, Franchises that were big in my time (NES and SNES era as a child) are not well known today so the wide net is not capturing me very often. Heck, even Banjo seems fairly new to me when you take that into account.

As stated, it makes sense for Nintendo to appeal to Japanese audience as well. That is their bread and butter historically for sales and dependability. It just leaves someone like me standing on sideline.

I can understand where you're coming from, but I think this kind of thing is heavily influenced by region. If we were talking about my neck of the woods (rural Maine), we'd be talking about Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Halo. Xbox is the console of choice here and as far as I'm aware, it has been since the console's inception. PC gamers and Playstation gamers mostly live in the cities. Nintendo is for kids. People grew up with SNES, so I knew about Final Fantasy. I didn't learn about the existence of Doom until I was 20, and that was from Youtube.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

Doomguy could make for a good E3 reveal.

That's it, that the post.
And if he does, glad the Vault Boy Mii Costume isn't our only form of Bethesda representation.

Lloyd could as well, and I hope he does. Vergeben plz leak Bamco rep for Smash at E3

 

[dream1ng]

I mean, again though, you're looking at it wrong.


Like, first off, how exactly can you say that "Doom is more popular than Final Fantasy"? What's your proof of that?


Like, if we're going off sales, and forgive me since I'm only doing this off super quick, rushed research, but Wikipedia lists the DOOM Franchise as a lifetime total of 10 million sales, again, don't know how accurate that is...

And Final Fantasy as about 159 million, with almost 11 million of said copies being Final Fantasy 7, alone.


Like, again, I don't know if those DOOM numbers are accurate, but if it's true, then FF7 alone has sold about as many copies of every DOOM game combined.

DOOM was also freeware (not the full game, but part of it), and that won't contribute to sales numbers.

I think you could make the argument that Doom Slayer and Sephiroth are relatively on par if you choose to not account for Japan, and the fact that Doom Slayer is sort of just standing in for all of Doom, as the character himself was never really the focus, especially in the earlier days. He was really just a marine without a name. You can't really have Sephiroth account for all of FF, given not only is he not in most of it, but as a whole FF is a lot bigger than Doom.

And yes I know Doom was the thing in the 90s. Maybe it peaked higher then. But I also remember the fervor around FF7 and how it opened the door on RPGs to the west. They're both games that are regarded as among the best and most influential of all time.

And they're both characters held in quite high esteem. To the original point, you can only really say that were Nintendo American, Doom Slayer would have the edge if they operated like they do now, wherein they prioritize characters from their own region. If American Nintendo prioritized American characters, yes, Doom Slayer would have the edge over Sephiroth. But that's not emblematic of one being bigger than the other so much as it is the selection process of the company. If their decisions were impartial to region, it really could go either way.

 

[Shroob]

Lloyd could as well, and I hope he does. Vergeben plz leak Bamco rep for Smash at E3

I don't think Vergeben's going to say anything.

He's been gone since January 2020 in regards to Smash leaks.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

At the time, the common consensus was that it was porn, due to the mouth.


But it's best to leave that stone unturned.

So having a mouth = porn?

By that kind of logic, every living creature on Earth is a porn star

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

I don't think Vergeben's going to say anything.

He's been gone since January 2020 in regards to Smash leaks.

What about "Koei Tecmo" thing?

 

[Shroob]

So having a mouth = porn?

By that kind of logic, every living creature on Earth is a porn star

It was more that it could be looked at as either a shouting mouth, or a moaning one.


We really ought to drop this

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, I myself am 30, and when I was in school, the playground was always "Link can beat Cloud. Nuh uh, Cloud can destroy Link!", and it's not like early Internet culture didn't reflect that either(Newgrounds, YTMND, Ebaumsworld, etc).

Like, I think it speaks volumes about Sephiroth as a character that most people watching the trailer knew who it was when the literal first drumbeat of One Winged Angel hit. That, is a hard thing to do, but if you're soo iconic that the literal first note of your themesong has people freaking out, that to me says everything.

YTMND

boi I am two years older than u stop rubbing it in

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It was more that it could be looked at as either a shouting mouth, or a moaning one.


We really ought to drop this

You're the one making it weird.

It was literally just Johnny Knoxville making a silly open-mouthed face with a lightsaber put in the picture.

Referencing how Knoxville was the basis for Travis' look and the lightsaber... well, the lightsaber needs no explanation.

In other words, people's minds are stuck in gutters.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I'm seeing this mini Doom vs FF argument that idr wanna get into myself haha

But it DID remind me of this.
Hope it enlightens y'all.

 

[Guynamednelson]

boi I am two years older than u stop rubbing it in

Go punch the keys, for god's sake.

 

[Shroob]

What about "Koei Tecmo" thing?

That was in what, October 2020?

And nothing's come of it?

And that was the literal first thing he had talked about since like, January that year?



Verg's done.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

That was in what, October 2020?

And nothing's come of it?

And that was the literal first thing he had talked about since like, January that year?



Verg's done.

He never leaked epic Bamco character I also think the Koei Tecmo stuff was just the spirits

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And nothing's come of it?

Age of Calamity Spirits?
Sophia Spirit?

They may be pngs, but they're still pngs that are owned by that company, thus needing discussions in order for Nintendo to use them in Smash.

 

[Shroob]

What makes me doubt a Dragalia Lost character besides the whole not available in Europe thing is that DL is one of Cygames's least popular gachas. Dragalia Lost's lifetime revenue was almost surpassed in just one month by the Uma Musume gacha. Besides, even if Nintendo owns the IP, I think they'd still have to deal with Cygames and wouldn't it be better to just add a Granblue Fantasy character at that point? What I'm saying is...

Zooey for Smash.

As someone who plays this game.

I, for one, welcome the meta breaker to Smash, only for her to completely destroy another meta.

 

[Gnateb]

I would love a Bamco character.

 

[ARandomFruit]

Joker has only been in one game, ever, to my knowledge.

I'm sorry if this comes off as rude
but to expand your knowledge a bit.
Joker prior to being in Smash has appeared in Persona 5, Persona 5 Dancing and Persona 3 Dancing and Persona Q2 (Japan)
After he got in Smash he appeared in Persona 5 Royal (if you wanna count that), Persona Q2 (Everywhere else) and Persona 5 Strikers.
Also was in a few other crossovers including being a costume in the SMT X FE crossover and Sonic Forces and being in Dragalia Lost and Puzzles and Dragons.
While its not as many games as Rayman or Doomguy he has been in more games than 1, ever.

 

[Shroob]

Age of Calamity Spirits?
Sophia Spirit?

They may be pngs, but they're still pngs that are owned by that company, thus needing discussions in order for Nintendo to use them in Smash.

I mean, that's my stance too, but people won't listen to that in an argument since "It MUST mean it's a character." Hell, that's like 90% of the Hayabusa fanbase's opinion on why he's a lock, or at least was before the recent interviews.

 

[volbound1700]

I can understand where you're coming from, but I think this kind of thing is heavily influenced by region. If we were talking about my neck of the woods (rural Maine), we'd be talking about Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Halo. Xbox is the console of choice here and as far as I'm aware, it has been since the console's inception. PC gamers and Playstation gamers mostly live in the cities. Nintendo is for kids. People grew up with SNES, so I knew about Final Fantasy. I didn't learn about the existence of Doom until I was 20, and that was from Youtube.

Sounds like Tennessee. Smash is big here, don't get me wrong but it seems like FPS, Strategy games (they are surprisingly big here like Civilization), casual games, and platformers dominate. RPGs are just not as big of a genre.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Joker has only been in one game, ever, to my knowledge.

Even if this statement was actually true, one game would've been all he really needed when that one game is freaking Persona 5.

Besides, this never stopped Geno fans from constantly advertising him.