Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[dream1ng]

Jigglypuff was built off Kirby the first time, I'm not sure if the same is true for the future games. It's just that Jiggs, Wolf, Toon Link, Mewtwo, and the others in the data were all on the sliding scale of expendability, and the axe came down between, seemingly, Wolf and Mewtwo.

Mewtwo would've been next in line for inclusion, but Krystal considerations were abandoned at a much earlier stage because she would need to be an original newcomer, which are decided at the beginning (for the most part) and take the largest amount of resources.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Yeah, he's a clone of Lucina, right?

Maybe Mew is in fact Lucina's real identity.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm not sure if the same is true for the future games

Maybe not as much, but Kirby's animation skeleton would still be reused due to their similar bodies.

 

[JustPlainDan]

Just watched that latest Little Z video, and NGL, I kinda wish HopCat had been the one to be Mythra

 

[Bobthealligator]

I feel like the only person on this planet who actually likes Rex’s English voice

I like him, it's 100% on the voice direction. We know from Skye Bennet that they recorded all the lines in order and didn't really know too much about context. Honestly everyone was pretty horrendous at the start of the game (except Malos), but as the game goes along and they get to know their characters, the performances greatly improve all around.

 

[PacificFun]

Voice direction is everything. Just take a listen to season 1 SpongeBob and then go listen to season 7. I still don't like Pyra's voice but it sounds far better in Smash.

 

[Dinoman96]

It doesn't sound like Krystal was really considered at all.

Sakurai answers some (old) questions– about Brawl!

These questions were part of a two-part article that was published shortly after Brawl’s release, in the magazine Nintendo Dream, featuring a bunch of reader questions, which Sakurai answered…

sourcegaming.info

Sakurai: Wolf was a character that barely made it in due to time constraints. He was added because there was high demand for his inclusion on places like “Smash Bros. Dojo!!”, and he’s a popular character. Of course, if he didn’t have that backing him, I don’t think I could have put him in. Among the characters with high popularity, I chose one who had a high possibility of becoming realized in the game, and as a result you could say Wolf was created.

Host: Does that mean even if you wanted to add more female characters, Krystal didn’t have a realistic chance of being physically implemented into the game?

Sakurai: For Krystal, we didn’t have any of the technical modeling knowledge that we had cultivated with Fox and Falco, so it was like making a brand-new character from scratch. And because of the limited amount of time we had, creating Krystal wasn’t realistically possible. On that point, with Wolf we already have some knowledge of how to model his character, and would require about 70% of the effort required to create a whole new character.

Host: I see. But we did get a lot of questions like, “Why wasn’t Krystal a playable character?”

Sakurai: It’s not that I don’t understand how that feels, but if you start saying that, it becomes “Why isn’t Waddle Dee playable?” or Dry Bones, or Baby Peach. There’d be no end to it.

Host: Well, that is true (laughs).

Sakurai: In the end, the three playable characters in this game from “Star Fox” are Fox and Falco, and on top of that, Wolf, because he was popular and easy to create. On the other hand, if it was a situation where it wasn’t easy to create this character, and we had to make him from scratch, “Star Fox” may not have had 3 representatives. So, please think of Wolf as a lucky inclusion.

Basically just sounds like to me that it was going to be Wolf or no one. And Wolf only really happened because he hit the sweetspot of being popular and also being a deriative character of Fox that wouldn't eat up much resources.

Honestly it's kind of a repeat of what happened with Falco back in Melee, he just got in because they needed quick clone characters to throw in the tail-end of development. Really doesn't seem like additional Star Fox characters were ever a priority for Sakurai.

 

[Technomage]

It doesn't sound like Krystal was really considered at all.

Sakurai answers some (old) questions– about Brawl!

These questions were part of a two-part article that was published shortly after Brawl’s release, in the magazine Nintendo Dream, featuring a bunch of reader questions, which Sakurai answered…

sourcegaming.info

Basically just sounds like to me that it was going to be Wolf or no one. And Wolf only really happened because he hit the sweetspot of being popular and also being a deriative character of Fox that wouldn't eat up much resources.

Honestly it's kind of a repeat of what happened with Falco back in Melee, he just got in because they needed quick clone characters to throw in the tail-end of development. Really doesn't seem like additional Star Fox characters were ever a priority for Sakurai.

Interesting, though would it have been possible if they had Krystal as a Fox clone/semiclone?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Interesting, though would it have been possible if they had Krystal as a Fox clone/semiclone?

They thought Krystal's body was too different, unlike Wolf.

 

[Technomage]

They thought Krystal's body was too different, unlike Wolf.

So different skeleton? Got it.

Edit: If only Brawl had DLC, even if it's to finish some fighters after base game.

 

[Dinoman96]

Interesting, though would it have been possible if they had Krystal as a Fox clone/semiclone?

Honestly I think they could of done that, Adventures was the only game she even used her staff (and she didn't even use it that much anyways), and the other SF games she appears in, she basically plays like everyone else, using sci-fi weaponry and piloting spacecraft, so a variation of the "spacie" moveset wouldn't be as unfitting for her as some people think it is. I think she could of worked as even an echo fighter of Fox, kinda like how they cut corners with Dark Samus and made her an echo of...Samus.

But my guess is that everyone who voted for her on the ballot said they did so because of her staff and Sakurai probably thought they'd be happier to see her in Smash with it even as an NPC, instead of just being yet another reskinned Fox clone.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I feel like the only person on this planet who actually likes Rex’s English voice

I like it in Chapter 8 onwards when he could shout and be emotional. In general though the voice acting in XC2 isn’t bad, it’s the voice direction that’s bad.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So different skeleton? Got it.

Edit: If only Brawl had DLC, even if it's to finish some fighters after base game.

Sometimes I think about what if the Wii era had DLC, what it would be like...

 

[Shroob]

Think I've finally "finished" my iceberg image.


Now to just wait for when/if someone makes a video on it lul

 

[Sage of Ice]

Honestly I think they could of done that, Adventures was the only game she even used her staff (and she didn't even use it that much anyways), and the other SF games she appears in, she basically plays like everyone else, using sci-fi weaponry and piloting spacecraft, so a variation of the "spacie" moveset wouldn't be as unfitting for her as some people think it is. I think she could of worked as even an echo fighter of Fox, kinda like how they cut corners with Dark Samus and made her an echo of...Samus.

But my guess is that everyone who voted for her on the ballot said they did so because of her staff and Sakurai probably thought they'd be happier to see her in Smash with it even as an NPC, instead of just being yet another reskined Fox clone.

the staff is a huge part of the appeal. i'd rather go on not having her than get a fourth Fox

 

[PacificFun]

I think we're going to get our Nintendo E3 schedule next week.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think we're going to get our Nintendo E3 schedule next week.

Didn’t Jeff Grubb hint at that almost two weeks ago anyway?

 

[7NATOR]

It doesn't sound like Krystal was really considered at all.

Sakurai answers some (old) questions– about Brawl!

These questions were part of a two-part article that was published shortly after Brawl’s release, in the magazine Nintendo Dream, featuring a bunch of reader questions, which Sakurai answered…

sourcegaming.info

Basically just sounds like to me that it was going to be Wolf or no one. And Wolf only really happened because he hit the sweetspot of being popular and also being a derivative character of Fox that wouldn't eat up much resources.

Honestly it's kind of a repeat of what happened with Falco back in Melee, he just got in because they needed quick clone characters to throw in the tail-end of development. Really doesn't seem like additional Star Fox characters were ever a priority for Sakurai.

Reading the Quote, I also think this is probably A reason why the Smash DLC (across the History of the series) is the way it is now

Most of the characters that have been Smash DLC have been more Humanoid in structure, which is likely much easier to model and also animate and such then other types of characters

If you Compare Base rosters of their respective games vs the DLC, The Base game tends to have more diversity among the different structures of the characters. Smash 4 had characters like Mega Man, Greninja, PAC-MAN, Bowser Jr, and Duck Hunt on the roster, but it's DLC was all Humanoid with the exception of Mewtwo, who is a veteran character

Same thing with Ultimate. With Inkling (with the Squid form), Ridley, K.Rool, and Incineroar having different body structures, Isabelle kind has one but uses Villager as a base it seems, Plant also has different body structure, while Banjo and Steve are the only weird characters Across Both Fighter Passes, and Steve's model was just ported from his games

I'm going to assume that since the Base roster has a bigger budget to work with, they can more easily afford to do more structures in their characters more often then with DLC.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Xenoblade 2 talk huh? Gotta jump on that.

For the voice acting, I actually have some interesting thoughts on it. For one, my first playthrough was with Japanese voices with English subs and I'm glad that I experienced the game first that way because it's more natural, especially since the English dub has a bigger problem with lip syncing than I've seen with many other English dubs. Overall I do like the Japanese voices better and I really like some of the voices, especially Pyra she sounds so cute.

However, I've been watching cutscenes online as I continuously reflect on the game even after weeks after I first beat it and most videos are in english. Plus I have been doing a new game plus run with the English dub and I have to say, the dub has really grown on me. It's really cool how people from different titans have different accents and some of the voice acting is fantastic such as with Nia and Malos. I think they are some of the voices that I actually prefer over the Japanese version as they add more personality to the characters.

And for my hot take, I actually don't mind Rex's voice or even his screams at all. The reason is because well, he is 15. It would make sense for him to not be able to fully scream as he is a kid. I do agree it's still laughably bad and does take away from some moments such as that one moment toward the end of Chapter 7. The main problem is the voice direction. It's clear that they were rushed (As was confirmed to be the case) and the issue that it causes is that it creates a cognitive dissonance where Rex is screaming at a certain level, but his exaggerated facial expressions makes it feel like he should be screaming even louder. With Monolith Soft getting more employees, hopefully that means that for the next game they will have more time to focus on the English dub as it does turn some people off from playing the game which is a shame because Xenoblade 2 is such an incredible game that I want as many people to experience it as possible.

Anyway, that got off topic from Smash. To make this more on-topic, I'll say that the Aegis girls are now within my top 3 favorite newcomers for this game along with Steve and the Belmonts. I care so much for these characters and it's great that I'm able to enjoy Xenoblade 2 within another game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Mega Man, Greninja

Eh, they might be reusing Mario and Sheik's skeletons respectively. Reusing human skeletons=/=being 100% human. In fact we already have proof that Ridley's using Charizard's skeleton as well, he has Brawl Charizard's gilding data.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Mewtwo is also a clone. He would have been even easier to make.

Snake as well.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think we're going to get our Nintendo E3 schedule next week.

As part of a Nintendo Direct?/s

 

[Rie Sonomura]

As part of a Nintendo Direct?/s

You joke... but what if...

I mean there are no releases next week...

 

[chocolatejr9]

You joke... but what if...

I mean there are no releases next week...

Actually, I DO remember one year where they had a Nintendo Direct Mini a few weeks before E3...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So different skeleton? Got it.

Edit: If only Brawl had DLC, even if it's to finish some fighters after base game.

If DLC was a thing for Brawl, then we probably would have gotten Mewtwo, Roy and Dr. Mario in there while Sonic wouldn't get rushed like hell and have a good moveset

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Actually, I DO remember one year where they had a Nintendo Direct Mini a few weeks before E3...

Do you recall what year it was?

 

[Technomage]

If DLC was a thing for Brawl, then we probably would have gotten Mewtwo, Roy and Dr. Mario in there while Sonic wouldn't get rushed like hell and have a good moveset

Don't forget we could have gotten Dixie WITH Diddy, too.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If DLC was a thing for Brawl, then we probably would have gotten Mewtwo, Roy and Dr. Mario in there while Sonic wouldn't get rushed like hell and have a good moveset

Don't forget we could have gotten Dixie WITH Diddy, too.

You think we could have gotten Shulk way back then too...?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Do you recall what year it was?

Not exactly. I know it was during the 3DS era because I believe that was when they announced LBX: Little Battlers eXperience was coming to the West.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Do you recall what year it was?

Nintendo Direct - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We did get some directs in May and June before E3, however they were mostly focused on one or two games and/or Pokemon related.

 

[PacificFun]

Do you recall what year it was?

2015

 

[Technomage]

You think we could have gotten Shulk way back then too...?

Well Xenoblade 1 was released in 2010; we don't know if Sakurai was privy to secret info about it at the time.

 

[7NATOR]

If DLC was a thing for Brawl, then we probably would have gotten Mewtwo, Roy and Dr. Mario in there while Sonic wouldn't get rushed like hell and have a good moveset

I'm now kinda confused, since when Source gaming did their episode on Brawl characters, they said that Sonic being rushed was a popular misconception, So Now I'm not sure what to believe

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Don't forget we could have gotten Dixie WITH Diddy, too.

I doubt that as it seems Dixie was scrapped fairly early on, otherwise we wouldn't have had Diddy at all if the cut was that late, right?

You think we could have gotten Shulk way back then too...?

Sure, if we completely ignore Nintendo flatout saying the game wouldn't have a worldwide release until a few years later, maybe Shulk was planned for Smash 64 too, it's just as likely

 

[kylexv]

I think we're going to get our Nintendo E3 schedule next week.

Seeing as E3 is less than 3 weeks away, I'm sure we'll get the schedule soon.

 

[Louie G.]

Regardless of whether or not Krystal was formally planned, I feel bad for her. She's one of those characters who kinda missed the boat when the time was right and now just floats around in limbo waiting until her movement gets vocal or passionate enough to really make a difference for a future title.

Seeing how Krystal support was never quite as loud as say, Ridley or K. Rool post Brawl, and Star Fox itself being in a perpetual state of limbo as is (with Krystal not even appearing in the latest game)... she really just got unlucky. I'm glad she got to be an Assist Trophy, at least.

 

[CannonStreak]

Regardless of whether or not Krystal was formally planned, I feel bad for her. She's one of those characters who kinda missed the boat when the time was right and now just floats around in limbo waiting until her movement gets vocal or passionate enough to really make a difference for a future title.

Seeing how Krystal support was never quite as loud as say, Ridley or K. Rool post Brawl, and Star Fox itself being in a perpetual state of limbo as is (with Krystal not even appearing in the latest game)... she really just got unlucky. I'm glad she got to be an Assist Trophy, at least.

I actually like Wolf as a character, but I do feel bad for Krystal as well, for the reasons you said.

 

[Louie G.]

I actually like Wolf as a character, but I do feel bad for Krystal as well, for the reasons you said.

Oh yeah, I honestly prefer Wolf over Krystal by a good margin. I think he was the right choice, but I think Krystal would have been neat too with (presumably) a magic based staff moveset and would definitely spice up the Star Fox lineup with something new.

 

[CannonStreak]

Oh yeah, I honestly prefer Wolf over Krystal by a good margin. I think he was the right choice, but I think Krystal would have been neat too with (presumably) a magic based staff moveset and would definitely spice up the Star Fox lineup with something new.

Yeah, but though the time has passed, that's to say she could be added in a future Smash game at any time. I mean, we could always use a Star Fox character with a potentially rather unique moveset, right?

 

[Dinoman96]

Sometimes it kind of feels like the only reason Star Fox has any characters beyond Fox is because of luck. With the characters hitting that alformentioned sweetspot of being popular and being easy to make.

There exists another timeline where we never got Falco and Wolf and Fox is the sole representative for his series, the same way others like Captain Falcon and Wario are with theirs.