Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Evil Trapezium]

You’re given a special invitation from Sakurai to GUARANTEE one of these characters becomes the next DLC for Ultimate.

However, he will immediately de-confirm the other three from ever becoming Smash characters.

Who are you choosing? pic.twitter.com/OkJHESqhs3

— hungrybox (@LiquidHbox) May 18, 2021

So many good choices...know what? Imma do the reverse of what the tweet says. See ya, Master Chief.

Well we do need some more animal characters in these passes so Crash Bandicoot is an easy choice. A wacky and silly character for a wacky and silly game.

 

[N3ON]

I don't think people are looking at all the possibilities for double dipping and just arbitrarily plucking Chief out of the hat though, I think they're hinging a lot on the swelling talks of continued and increasing collaboration between Nintendo and Microsoft. The rallying around Chief has increased somewhat commensurately with those murmurs, especially since some relate to Halo coming to Switch. If you look back post-Steve, you'll see very little Chief talk.

That sort of isolates it from other possible cases of double dipping which mostly begin and end with "it could happen", which in and of itself often won't elevate it to a frequent topic of speculation.

Also, Lara Croft has always been overlooked, even before Ultimate had any Square newcomers. It's not just now. But honestly I don't think she even would be the next Square character, whenever we get one, despite her qualifications.

 

[Louie G.]

At the same time though, it seems like "nah they can double dip" is used solely for Chief and Chief alone, and not, say, Lara Croft.

People say something like this every time and the conversation is always very accepting toward Lara Croft when she's brought up as well.

I feel like it's pretty easily understood why Master Chief gets the most attention in this context, though. Square Enix has Cloud and Hero - representative of its two biggest pillars. Microsoft is a little weird though, despite having two characters in Smash none of them are "Mr. Microsoft". Steve is representative of the bigger game, but Master Chief is inarguably the mascot of the Xbox. I'd argue it remains the sole third party company in Smash without its mascot (except maybe Konami? I don't even know who would qualify for that role).

Lara is a big character, but going down this Square Enix ladder beyond her the characters lack the same notoriety and / or dedicated community support that Banjo, Steve and Master Chief possess. I've been accepting toward discussions of say, 2B and Neku as well, although they definitely fall a little short of their predecessors. I don't think anyone here is against discussing these characters, but compare either of them to Master Chief and it's pretty apparent why he's the one dominating these discussions as... well, one of the most iconic video game characters of all time.

It does beg the question as to why Lara hasn't really caught on though. I dunno. Personally I could just never really jive with her and I have a hard time envisioning it but she's as legit and worthy of conversation as anyone else.

 

[Shroob]

I have always found it weird just what selection of Microsoft content we have gotten in Smash, tbh.


In truth, the lack-of content doesn't mean a whole lot, because a lot of series are without content, but at the same time...


Besides some Minecraft ones, zero Mii costumes? Not even Chief? Chief as a gunner is an absolute no-brainer.



That, and, truthfully, others may, but I don't really 'see' Banjo and Steve as "Microsoft" characters.


I always have, and probably always will, tie Banjo moreso to Nintendo and Rare than Microsoft, something even their reveal trailer did.

And Steve is a multi-platform god who is owned by Microsoft, but doesn't scream Microsoft.


Honestly, to me, Chief would be the first truly "That's Microsoft" character, if you catch my drift.

 

[PacificFun]

I feel like if Square is getting another character (I highly doubt it), it'll be Lara unless Nintendo just wants nothing to do with that IP for whatever reason (which is very possible).

Unlike the Resident Evil cast, she would be pretty easy to implement into Smash without losing the essence of Tomb Raider.

 

[Houndstooth]

I have always found it weird just what selection of Microsoft content we have gotten in Smash, tbh.


In truth, the lack-of content doesn't mean a whole lot, because a lot of series are without content, but at the same time...


Besides some Minecraft ones, zero Mii costumes? Not even Chief? Chief as a gunner is an absolute no-brainer.



That, and, truthfully, others may, but I don't really 'see' Banjo and Steve as "Microsoft" characters.


I always have, and probably always will, tie Banjo moreso to Nintendo and Rare than Microsoft, something even their reveal trailer did.

And Steve is a multi-platform god who is owned by Microsoft, but doesn't scream Microsoft.


Honestly, to me, Chief would be the first truly "That's Microsoft" character, if you catch my drift.

This is how I've felt since Banjo ans Steve. Banjo represents Rare, Steve reps Mojang. Microsoft took to the console gaming industry with Chief, and Chief is stillone of their main pillars today. Banjo and Steve just don't scream "Xbox." Chief does.

 

[ceterisparibus]

Lara has always been overlooked by the fanbase, and i don't think nintendo is obliged to include Halo just because of its history with Microsoft.
If anything, it really boils down to whether they think its a good fit/sales/promotion if anything else.

In the meantime the best Fire Emblem game gets added to the NSO... only in Japan

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If they're not planning to remake older entries anytime soon they should at least give these games the FE1 treatment they did not long ago.

Imagine making such a grandiose statement with the game's massive issues (that people keep ignoring for some reason!).

That seems doubtful to me tbh. Couldn't you purchase Fire Emblem Gaiden on Virtual Console at the same time you could buy Shadows of Valentia? Plus They seem intent on remaking all the old ones if they even went back to Gaiden. But you are on to something. I have thought for a while that maybe Three Houses was worked on as a stand-in for a remake of Genealogy of the Holy War because it reuses a lot of the same themes. Timeskip, magical blood powers, an emphasis on the intricacies and consequences of nobility and monarchy...

That game is probably one of the last games i would call "does intricacies and consequences well" considering

Spoiler

arvis/seliph becomes the emperor during their reign and maintains the nobility power structure without examining the issues at heart or showing any takeaway from it. Also something something evil dragon/cult is the crux of the entire plot, similar to the many other games before/after it.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Hell, people still talk about Sora on the regular, and that'd be double dipping.

Sora’s technically owned by Disney.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Sora’s technically owned by Disney.

There's no technically about it. Disney 100% owns Sora.

 

[SirCamp]

I have always found it weird just what selection of Microsoft content we have gotten in Smash, tbh.


In truth, the lack-of content doesn't mean a whole lot, because a lot of series are without content, but at the same time...


Besides some Minecraft ones, zero Mii costumes? Not even Chief? Chief as a gunner is an absolute no-brainer.



That, and, truthfully, others may, but I don't really 'see' Banjo and Steve as "Microsoft" characters.


I always have, and probably always will, tie Banjo moreso to Nintendo and Rare than Microsoft, something even their reveal trailer did.

And Steve is a multi-platform god who is owned by Microsoft, but doesn't scream Microsoft.


Honestly, to me, Chief would be the first truly "That's Microsoft" character, if you catch my drift.

You’re certain not alone in feeling that way. However could it not be that Banjo and Steve not feeling like integral parts of Microsoft’s branding is precisely why they were comfortable with them being represented in a Nintendo game/on another console? Would also explain why we don’t have other mii costumes to go with them as well, like Chief as you said.

 

[Shroob]

You’re certain not alone in feeling that way. However could it not be that Banjo and Steve not feeling like integral parts of Microsoft’s branding is precisely why they were comfortable with them being represented in a Nintendo game/on another console? Would also explain why we don’t have other mii costumes to go with them as well, like Chief as you said.

On the contrary though, look at how close Microsoft is to Nintendo atm, close enough to potentially be even discussing bringing the Xbox Gamepass to Switch.

Or how Microsoft's most recent videos have had Switches in the background?


Microsoft and Nintendo are extremely buddy buddy as of late.

 

[Lyncario]

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So many good choices...know what? Imma do the reverse of what the tweet says. See ya, Master Chief.

That's an easy choice for me, I'd pick Sora any day of the week.

 

[Mamboo07]

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So many good choices...know what? Imma do the reverse of what the tweet says. See ya, Master Chief.

Dr. Eggman, gimme the blue hedgehog's arch-nemesis.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even if they were in separate passes, we've already gotten two Microsoft characters sold to us as DLC (and there's only four characters after Banjo that separate him and Steve). By Smash's standards, that's a lot at once.

I get that Master Chief is a big icon for Xbox, but I think people are giving that label too much power. Even if Nintendo and Microsoft are on good terms, it seems a little overkill to negotiate for three Microsoft characters over the course of eleven DLC characters.

I think Nintendo is satisfied with Steve. A third Microsoft rep could happen, but I feel like they're more likely to turn their attention to something else for these last two characters. Perhaps even a third-party company not currently represented on the roster.

 

[Shroob]

Even if they were in separate passes, we've already gotten two Microsoft characters sold to us as DLC (and there's only four characters after Banjo that separate him and Steve). By Smash's standards, that's a lot at once.

I get that Master Chief is a big icon for Xbox, but I think people are giving that label too much power. Even if Nintendo and Microsoft are on good terms, it seems a little overkill to negotiate for three Microsoft characters over the course of eleven DLC characters.

I think Nintendo is satisfied with Steve. A third Microsoft rep could happen, but I feel like they're more likely to turn their attention to something else for these last two characters. Perhaps even a third-party company not currently represented on the roster.

I mean, in what way?

Halo is Microsoft's most iconic, flagship franchise. Like, they own Minecraft, but I'd argue if you asked people who owned Minecraft, they'd respond with "Mojang" before they said Microsoft.


I don't think it's a stretch at all to say someone like Chief would be akin to Sonic getting in Brawl, or Cloud in Smash 4, you say people are giving the label too much power, when a reveal like that would be earth shattering. People viewed Sonic as Mario's rival, and him getting in Smash was huge. People viewed Cloud as a Playstation character(And a surprising amount still do), and his reveal was huge. If Chief got in, we'd have a true "XBox character".


Now, of course, it's way too early to say if it'll happen. We're what, 3-4 weeks out from E3 and there are no leaks out right now, but I'd also hold off on saying "Nintendo is satisfied" until we have some more concrete info, to be blunt.

 

[Stratos]

After they put the Banjo & the Kazooie and the Steve, I'd say it's worth come the Master Chief as the next DLC newcomer since he is also the mascot of XBOX Game Studios. Besides Microsoft and Nintento cooperate very well.

 

[Idon]

After they put the Banjo & the Kazooie and the Steve, I'd say it's worth come the Master Chief as the next DLC newcomer since he is also the mascot of XBOX Game Studios. Besides Microsoft and Nintento cooperate very well.

"Cooperating well" is less relevant than one would think considering Koei Tecmo, who literally develops several of Nintendo's million-sellers has yet to get one character, and Bandai Namco, the guys who are actually making Smash Bros, only have one character.

 

[Shroob]

Regardless, we'll know in about 3~ weeks.


I feel like E3 is make it or break it for Chief, because there's just no way in hell I can see someone of his stature revealed in anything but a major presentation, a simple, General Direct just isn't big enough.


Banjo was revealed at E3 2019

And while Steve was revealed in October, there's evidence to suggest that files were moved around in September on the blog, suggesting he was meant to come out in September(Much like what happened with Byleth in December 2019), so Steve very well could have been an E32020 reveal, had E32020 happened tbh.


We'll know soon enough.

 

[rychu_supadude]

Oof. On the one hand, I don't want Sora or Master Chief anywhere near Smash, ever. But on the other, I really couldn't split Crash and Eggman, they're both so dear to me and I want them both in. So since this is just a hypothetical, I refuse to choose.

That reminds me, I had a reveal dream last week. Sakurai came on halfway through the E3 Direct but he was only talking about how nostalgic he gets for Ice Climber. Then Master Chief showed up in the distance and started charging a shot aimed directly at him. But then there was a puff of smoke and Ryu Hayabusa rushed in to deflect the energy beam somehow, with splash art that revealed him as the actual character. And after the standard trailer gameplay sequence, the Chief got a radio call telling him that "your fight is elsewhere", leading to the reveal of the MCC coming to Switch.

I guess it only really works because my subconscious associates Ninja Gaiden with that brief period when the series was Xbox exclusive

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Regardless, we'll know in about 3~ weeks.


I feel like E3 is make it or break it for Chief, because there's just no way in hell I can see someone of his stature revealed in anything but a major presentation, a simple, General Direct just isn't big enough.


Banjo was revealed at E3 2019

And while Steve was revealed in October, there's evidence to suggest that files were moved around in September on the blog, suggesting he was meant to come out in September(Much like what happened with Byleth in December 2019), so Steve very well could have been an E32020 reveal, had E32020 happened tbh.


We'll know soon enough.

was revealed in a General Nintendo Direct, so it is possible for Master Chief to be the same, just unlikely.

 

[Shroob]

was revealed in a General Nintendo Direct, so it is possible for Master Chief to be the same, just unlikely.

True, but I'd also say we really shouldn't compare Smash 4's reveal schedule to Ultimate's... at all.


4 was when Wii Fit Trainer was revealed on a show floor instead of the announcement trailer.

4 was when we got a one-off impromptu reveal of 2 characters and a veteran, and something people to this day swear will happen again despite it happening one time in nearly a decade.

4 was when they thought Miis and Palutena were the big E3 hitters and that Pac Man should be shown off first to a small room of press.



4's reveals were really, really weird, and Ultimate seems a lot more cohesive tbh.

 

[Nekoo]

True, but I'd also say we really shouldn't compare Smash 4's reveal schedule to Ultimate's... at all.


4 was when Wii Fit Trainer was revealed on a show floor instead of the announcement trailer.

4 was when we got a one-off impromptu reveal of 2 characters and a veteran, and something people to this day swear will happen again despite it happening one time in nearly a decade.

4 was when they thought Miis and Palutena were the big E3 hitters and that Pac Man should be shown off first to a small room of press.



4's reveals were really, really weird, and Ultimate seems a lot more cohesive tbh.

Not only that but most Smash 4 DLC weren't planned, unlike Ultimate were all deals were done beforehand

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

We supposedly can't get Cinderace because of its international names?

in this video, I will now explain how this is how Eevee can still win, you see...

No one has ever pointed it out (I used the search feature and got nothing), but this is false.

Eevee has a French-exclusive name, Evoli.

 

[zumaddy]

I wonder who's next to be destroyed by a spirit event, if any. I feel like Mario Golf will get an event next with the characters in their new costumes which won't deconfirm anyone.

Maybe The Great Ace Attorney will get one, but Phoenix could still come as a fighter with original trilogy and DD/SOJ spirits only.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I wonder who's next to be destroyed by a spirit event, if any. I feel like Mario Golf will get an event next with the characters in their new costumes which won't deconfirm anyone.

Maybe The Great Ace Attorney will get one, but Phoenix could still come as a fighter with original trilogy and DD/SOJ spirits only.

Famicom Detective Club

 

[Guynamednelson]

No one has ever pointed it out (I used the search feature and got nothing), but this is false.

Eevee has a French-exclusive name, Evoli.

To be fair, it's still close enough for Aoi Yuuki to voice it worldwide.

Admittedly the voice acting for its evolutions might be a problem, so...give them New Pokemon Snap-style voice clips?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

To be fair, it's still close enough for Aoi Yuuki to voice it worldwide.

Unrelated to this discussion, but Aoi doesn't even voice Eevee in Smash.

It's apparently someone named Megumi Sato.

Admittedly the voice acting for its evolutions might be a problem, so...give them New Pokemon Snap-style voice clips?

I should point out that, if this theory about voice acting is correct, the way I see it is that they limit the amount of new voice clips for international languages rather than outright remove them entirely like people seem to assume.

I don't think a Pokemon pick in general is super likely, but I don't think having non-English voice acting is a reason why they or anyone else should be ruled out. Feels like a reach just to gatekeep in my eyes.

 

[Idon]

I wonder who's next to be destroyed by a spirit event, if any. I feel like Mario Golf will get an event next with the characters in their new costumes which won't deconfirm anyone.

Maybe The Great Ace Attorney will get one, but Phoenix could still come as a fighter with original trilogy and DD/SOJ spirits only.

Considering SMT3HD comes out next week internationally, probably that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Megumi Sato

It's still a Japanese person's voice not being dubbed, isn't it?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's still a Japanese person's voice not being dubbed, isn't it?

True, but my other point (which isn't even a counter to you or anything, just my personal take on the theory) still stands.

I should point out that, if this theory about voice acting is correct, the way I see it is that they limit the amount of new voice clips for international languages rather than outright remove them entirely like people seem to assume.

I don't think a Pokemon pick in general is super likely, but I don't think having non-English voice acting is a reason why they or anyone else should be ruled out. Feels like a reach just to gatekeep in my eyes.

Eevee is a case where there's little differences and could realistically keep the same voice clips for everything.

But there are plenty of other good examples. A Sonic rep could reuse existing voice clips on all international languages like Sonic himself does, for example.

There are ways to get international voice acting on characters without recording new clips, so the very idea of the current "well, they have non-English voices, so they're deconfirmed" mindest just doesn't feel right to me.

Again, still don't think Pokemon is super likely, but voice acting and other regional differences aren't really the reason. The big red flags for me are the Gen 8 Spirit event, the Team Rocket outfits and the fact that we've spent a year and a half without Pokemon getting any DLC in Smash since Sword and Shield's release.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

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GBA and N64 games, for one.

But more importantly, I wouldn't fill the services we DO have with useless shovelware. Even some of the more divisive NES and SNES games deserve it more than some of the games in their services.

Just give me my GameCube games please

also

Square Enix double dip talk
No Neku

I am once again disappointed in you all

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Yeah come on guys! All this Square Enix talk and you don't even mention TimeSplitters! Amazon said so!

 

[Mamboo07]

Broke: Shadow as a Sonic Echo Fighter (why do you all want another sonic clone to spam with?)

Woke: Shadow as a unique fighter with his own moveset
(Even though Eggman would be my choice for a 2nd rep)

 

[Deleted member]

When's E3 this year? I'm oping we'll get the Smash teaser a week before it at least.

 

[Cyberfire]

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By consoles currently on the service? The obvious ones everyone asks for; Earthbound, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Final Fantasy VI etc.

New consoles? GameCube for sure! It's the 'retro' Nintendo console who's games have never been made available together in an accessible environment. Sure games like Wind Waker, Metroid Prime & Luigi's Mansion have had ports/remakes, but its all so fragmented! It took 18 years to get a new release of Mario Sunshine, and now it's not even available for crying out loud.

Honestly if they did a Wii-like Virtual Console service for GameCube games they'd do mega.

 

[Gengar84]

I honestly don’t think companies having an equal amount of representation is as big of a deal as most people make it out to be. Sure, it would be nice to have more companies represented but I don’t think something like that would prevent a character getting in. If Nintendo really wanted Lara Croft, for example, I can’t imagine them saying to themselves that they already have too many Square-Enix characters and they should go with someone else.

I think it comes down to the specific character more so than the company that owns them. If anything, it would be easier to negotiate with companies already represented than new ones. We also only have one Namco character and one SNK character while other companies have three. I think that just shows that equal representation isn’t really a high priority. Then again, I might be biased because two of my most wanted characters are Square-Enix and Microsoft characters (Magus and Battletoads).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sora’s technically owned by Disney.

Whats that gotta do with people talking about him?
The people need to learn to not bring up Disney whenever Sora is even simply mentioned

 

[Deleted member]

Whats that gotta do with people talking about him?
The people need to learn to not bring up Disney whenever Sora is even simply mentioned

They were mentioning Square characters. Sora's owned by Disney so he's not technically a Square character. I believe that was the reason.

 

[rychu_supadude]

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GBA and N64 games, for one.

But more importantly, I wouldn't fill the services we DO have with useless shovelware. Even some of the more divisive NES and SNES games deserve it more than some of the games in their services.

"Giving away" 3D engine games is still a bit of a bridge too far when many companies would still rather sell their SNES and NES games on the eShop rather than let them be included in NSO.

I do think that not having Game Boy and GBA games there is pretty unconscionable given the whole "hybrid console" thing. They've unified the modern library, it's time to unify the retro library under one roof!

The issue with niche ass titles being added to NSO is the infrequency of updates and Nintendo's ridiculous love of trickling down instead of giving people frequent updates with variety, they pulled this **** for the Wii U meaning it wouldn't get 64 games until the end of it's lifespan despite the Wii having had them years prior

The Wii U got N64 games in early 2015. They were absent for a few years for sure, but it was squarely in the middle of the lifespan, not at the end - Splatoon hadn't even come out yet and SSB4 was yet to get its first downloadable character.

The NSO was supposed to be the answer to the trickle down/drip feed, but it's just made certain aspects of it worse. EarthBound and SMRPG are literally the last realisable Nintendo-published games (that are in English), and they're clearly withholding them for some reason, but people are just sick of waiting.

 

[Commander_Alph]

They were mentioning Square characters. Sora's owned by Disney so he's not technically a Square character. I believe that was the reason.

So, speaking of things owned by Disney, does that mean games like Ultimate Alliance and SE's Avenger only contain Disney in their copyright or should I say Marvel? I feel like any game that has a bunch of element from Disney is an automatic property.