Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

I've not been really focused on the conversation, but isn't Lilith basically the Ken to Morrigan's Ryu, seeing as she's literally a part of the latter? At that point I'm not sure who gets chosen matters that much.

 

[Stratos]

Each video game especially that is in Nintendo deserves a recognition and their characters appear even as spirits.

 

[Merengue]

Each video game especially that is in Nintendo deserves a recognition and their characters appear even as spirits.

Porky and Sylux are strangely absent

 

[Gnateb]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, I guess. I still find it weird that Dark Souls and Diablo are the only 2 series with Amiibo and zero representation in Smash. I really think it was possible to put a Solaire spirit into the game by now, just so the Amiibo is compatible.

 

[Technomage]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, I guess. I still find it weird that Dark Souls and Diablo are the only 2 series with Amiibo and zero representation in Smash. I really think it was possible to put a Solaire spirit into the game by now, just so the Amiibo is compatible.

Maybe they're saving it for a Dark Souls fighter?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Porky and Sylux are strangely absent

What cha talking about. Porky is a spirit, he's just inside the capsule spirit. ;P

 

[Gnateb]

Maybe they're saving it for a Dark Souls fighter?

I wish. There hasn't even been a spirit event. I just want to have a use for Solaire, he's collecting dust on my shelf.

 

[Dukefire]

I can assume that Porky is in the Absolutely Safe Capsule and is stuck in there since after the events of Mother 3

Sylux is still up in the air as Metroid Prime 4 isn't ready for an initial announcement yet (well, if you don't count that teaser trailer years ago).

 

[Speed Weed]

I've not been really focused on the conversation, but isn't Lilith basically the Ken to Morrigan's Ryu, seeing as she's literally a part of the latter? At that point I'm not sure who gets chosen matters that much.

That's what drives me nuts about this convo

Darkstalkers genuinely has one of the best casts out of any Capcom series, and the character being used to prove that it has so much more to offer than just Morrigan is literally the most similar character to her

 

[Technomage]

I can assume that Porky is in the Absolutely Safe Capsule and is stuck in there since after the events of Mother 3

Yeah, that's what I made as my headcanon, too! :D

 

[Gnateb]

Like if Bandai Namco and Nintendo were willing to make a whole Amiibo for Dark Souls during Smash's development cycle, I find it really hard to believe that licensing a compatible PNG was impossible.

The fact that Solaire is Bamco's only Amiibo shows that they and Nintendo care about the IP, to me.

 

[Technomage]

That's what drives me nuts about this convo

Darkstalkers genuinely has one of the best casts out of any Capcom series, and the character being used to prove that it has so much more to offer than just Morrigan is literally the most similar character to her

Yeah, Lilith is better off as an echo or alt. costume of Morrigan (would she work as the latter, though?). >_<

 

[SharkLord]

That's what drives me nuts about this convo

Darkstalkers genuinely has one of the best casts out of any Capcom series, and the character being used to prove that it has so much more to offer than just Morrigan is literally the most similar character to her

Yeah, I get having opinions and personal favorites, but when you're using it as evidence in a debate, it doesn't hold much water. Instead of Morrigan, we should use... Basically a Morrigan clone. It feels like we're just trying to avoid using Morrigan just for the sake of not using Morrigan for some reason.

Yeah, Lilith is better off as an echo or alt. costume of Morrigan (would she work as the latter, though?). >_<

I'm a bit hesitant to suggest alts, especially for something I don't know much about. Echoes, though? From what I can gather, she's basically just Darkstalkers Ken for Morrigan being the Darkstalkers Ryu. If Echoes were something DLC did, Lilith seems pretty easy to add.

 

[Louie G.]

Good Vibes Gaming did a discussion video on who are going to be the last two fighters for Smash.

Man really just said Master Chief could be Doomguy’s echo fighter of all things

I love listening to Smash podcasts like this but I always end up shaking my head every few minutes LOL

 

[Dukefire]

If I remember correctly, Morrigan from the Darkstalkers series is a Succubus. While she is meant to attract people with her charm and magic, she is ranked as an A class demon. She can fight on her own, but she has been seen in crossovers more compared to other characters in her home series and even the series itself hasn't gotten much titles. So, unlikely to say for Darkstalkers will get a character in Smash Ultimate.

 

[Technomage]

If I remember correctly, Morrigan from the Darkstalkers series is a Succubus. While she is meant to attract people with her charm and magic, she is ranked as an A class demon. She can fight on her own, but she has been seen in crossovers more compared to other characters in her home series and even the series itself hasn't gotten much titles. So, unlikely to say for Darkstalkers will get a character in Smash Ultimate.

Let alone a character who isn't Morrigan.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch as the video stated we do get a Tales character but it's Alphen to promote Arise coming out in September and the Lloyd Mii costume comes with him.

Oof.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Instead of Morrigan, we should use... Basically a Morrigan clone.

I'm a bit hesitant to suggest alts, especially for something I don't know much about. Echoes, though? From what I can gather, she's basically just Darkstalkers Ken for Morrigan being the Darkstalkers Ryu. If Echoes were something DLC did, Lilith seems pretty easy to add.

Hey, if all else fails we can just throw Donovan Baine in there.

But the real reason why I picked Lilith is because of how different her moveset is from Morrigan's. Sure, Soul Flash and Shining Blade are just different variations of Soul Fist and Shadow Blade, but here are a few differences:

1. While Morrigan has 4 special moves (one of them which drains your health and gives it to Morrigan), Lilith has 5 special moves and none of them drain the opponents health.
2. Lilith has a high jump, which can be used by inputting down, and then jumping up, forward, or backward.
3. Like Ryu (who has three Final Smashes, those being the Shinku Hadoken, the Shin Shoryuken, and the Forbidden Shoryuken), Lilith has three EX moves which means three moves we could pull for a Final Smash.
4. Lilith also has two Dark Force moves, those being Mimic Doll and Mirror Doll. The former could work similar to Kirby's Copy Ability, and the latter could work similar to Game & Watch's Oil Panic.
5. She's got two command normals (Childish Drop and Innocent Hug) which could easily work as throws (Childish Drop being a Back Throw and Innocent Hug being an Up Throw).
6. Mystic Arrow could easily work as a Forward Throw (trust me: it would be HILARIOUS to see Lilith using this move on a character like Marth or Dark Samus).
7. She's already censored since she's a Hermaphrodite (flat-chested girl). If we picked Morrigan, we are going to go through a LOT of trouble trying to censor her just so she could appear in Smash.
8. Toe Pierce could work as a down air similar to Greninja's.
9. Her ground throw could be her forward throw.
10. Gloomy Puppet Show basically DEFINES her oddball personality.

Basically, while Morrigan's all about being serious in a fight (and we have plenty of serious characters), Lilith's one of the few oddballs Darkstalkers has (Lord Raptor being the other one), and we have 9 oddballs in Smash. That's barely one eighth of the roster.

 

[Merengue]

What cha talking about. Porky is a spirit, he's just inside the capsule spirit. ;P

It's the empty version. I assume Galeem released Porky after turning the ASC into a spirit instead. If it had Porky inside,, it would say
Absolutely Safe Capsule(Porky)

 

[ahemtoday]

Man really just said Master Chief could be Doomguy’s echo fighter of all things

I love listening to Smash podcasts like this but I always end up shaking my head every few minutes LOL

Yeah, I don't really know much about Halo... or modern Doom, for that matter. But I think it would be a major disservice to the both of them if you jammed them into the same moveset.

I mean, I'm pretty sure the thing that sets Doom apart from other FPSes is the fast movement speed and how in-the-thick-of-it the game encourages you to be. You aren't hiding behind cover, you're running around with a shotgun feeling like you're on ice skates. If you gave Doomguy a moveset that would work for Master Chief, it wouldn't feel right to me.

Also, I'm pretty sure characters that look similar make for terrible echo fighters. The entire point is that they look different but play the same, isn't it.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, I don't really know much about Halo... or modern Doom, for that matter. But I think it would be a major disservice to the both of them if you jammed them into the same moveset.

I mean, I'm pretty sure the thing that sets Doom apart from other FPSes is the fast movement speed and how in-the-thick-of-it the game encourages you to be. You aren't hiding behind cover, you're running around with a shotgun feeling like you're on ice skates. If you gave Doomguy a moveset that would work for Master Chief, it wouldn't feel right to me.

Also, I'm pretty sure characters that look similar make for terrible echo fighters. The entire point is that they look different but play the same, isn't it.

It's funny, because Doom managed to be unique just because it did what it always did after a long hiatus instead of modernizing.

And yeah, the gameplay differences are too much to make them Echoes. Doom has an edgy, brutish aesthetic and is about lightning-fast violence, while Halo has a more high-tech and professional look, with slower movement, weaker regenerating armor instead of pickups lying around, and you drop and pick up guns as you run out of ammo instead of bringing all your guns with you in hammerspace. In Smash, I think it would effectively be Gun Marth vs. Gun Ike.

 

[Gengar84]

This is going to sound hypocritical coming from someone who supports Velvet Crowe, but I can’t think of a way they could tone down Morrigan for an E rating. Unlike Velvet, who just happens to wear a revealing outfit, but is otherwise not sexualized at all, Morrigan’s sexuality is a huge part of her character. I think her outfit is a little more difficult to sensor as well. With Velvet, you can just give her an undershirt and lengthen her shorts and not much would be lost but I can’t come up with a similar idea for Morrigan’s outfit. If they could find a way to make her suitable for an E rated game, I would be totally fine with her.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This is going to sound hypocritical coming from someone who supports Velvet Crowe, but I can’t think of a way they could tone down Morrigan for an E rating. Unlike Velvet, who just happens to wear a revealing outfit, but is otherwise not sexualized at all, Morrigan’s sexuality is a huge part of her character. I think her outfit is a little more difficult to sensor as well. With Velvet, you can just give her an undershirt and lengthen her shorts and not much would be lost but I can’t come up with a similar idea for Morrigan’s outfit. If they could find a way to make her suitable for an E rated game, I would be totally fine with her.

Oh god this again...

Just cover her cleavage more as seen in that obscure Darkstalkers cartoon and perhaps reduce her breast size and good to go. Also Bayonetta despite her sexiness.

 

[Gengar84]

Oh god this again...

Just cover her cleavage more as seen in that obscure Darkstalkers cartoon and perhaps reduce her breast size and good to go. Also Bayonetta despite her sexiness.

Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t realize this had been brought up so much. I didn’t mean to offend any Morrigan fans. I apologize if I did.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t realize this had been brought up so much. I did t mean to offend any Morrigan fans. I apologize if I did.

Not even a fan to be honest, it was more out of annoyance how people are still doing the whole "Smash is for good boys and girls" argument when Morrigan is one of those characters that can easily be censored. Even then CERO only has problems regarding panties.

Again if they could make Bayonetta work, the same could be here.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

This is going to sound hypocritical coming from someone who supports Velvet Crowe, but I can’t think of a way they could tone down Morrigan for an E rating. Unlike Velvet, who just happens to wear a revealing outfit, but is otherwise not sexualized at all, Morrigan’s sexuality is a huge part of her character.

The same could be said for Bayonetta.

 

[Gengar84]

Not even a fan to be honest, it was more out of annoyance how people are still doing the whole "Smash is for good boys and girls" argument when Morrigan is one of those characters that can easily be censored. Even then CERO only has problems regarding panties.

Again if they could make Bayonetta work, the same could be here.

That’s true. The only difference I see between Morrigan and Bayonetta is that Morrigan’s outfit is a lot more revealing than Bayo’s. They are both very sexualized. I suppose any character could be toned down enough with the right edits. Some might be harder than others like Cia, Ivy, or Camilla but they could probably make them work if they needed to.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It really baffles me people still uses the "Smash is for good boys and girls" argument.

Mai only couldn't work not because of her sexiness, not because of how much skin she was using but because of her panties which CERO takes most issue of.

Otherwise we also wouldn't have gotten Shantae as a Spirit.

 

[Stratos]

Two characters from Warlocked:

Queen Azarel

Chief Zog

Their movements can be based on their armies.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That’s true. The only difference I see between Morrigan and Bayonetta is that Morrigan’s outfit is a lot more revealing than Bayo’s. They are both very sexualized. I suppose any character could be toned down enough with the right edits. Some might be harder than others like Cia, Ivy, or Camilla but they could probably make them work if they needed to.

Did you even read my previous post?

As mentioned censor her like what was done with Corrin, Pyra, and Mythra. It's that simple.

The only part expose on her is her cleavage which can easily be covered up more.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Basically, when it comes to Smash; no pants = no service unless you’re a furry like Sonic

Two characters from Warlocked:

View attachment 314151 Queen Azarel

View attachment 314152 Chief Zog

uhhhh? Can I have some context?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Basically, when it comes to Smash; no pants = no service unless you’re a furry like Sonic

This exactly. That's why Mai couldn't work.

 

[Gengar84]

Did you even read my previous post?

As mentioned censor her like what was done with Corrin, Pyra, and Mythra. It's that simple.

The only part expose on her is her cleavage which can easily be covered up more.

I don’t know what your problem is. Yeah, I read your post and was agreeing with you that she could be censored like you suggested. I even apologized for offending anyone. I don’t know what more you want from me. Sorry I ever brought it up.

 

[Stratos]

Basically, when it comes to Smash; no pants = no service unless you’re a furry like Sonic



uhhhh? Can I have some context?

What do you mean?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Basically, when it comes to Smash; no pants = no service unless you’re a furry like Sonic

People don’t care about real life animals having no clothes to begin with so it’s not as if fictional animals would be treated differently. has no clothes and no one cares.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What do you mean?

Why’d you post those two characters?

 

[ahemtoday]

It's funny, because Doom managed to be unique just because it did what it always did after a long hiatus instead of modernizing.

And yeah, the gameplay differences are too much to make them Echoes. Doom has an edgy, brutish aesthetic and is about lightning-fast violence, while Halo has a more high-tech and professional look, with slower movement, weaker regenerating armor instead of pickups lying around, and you drop and pick up guns as you run out of ammo instead of bringing all your guns with you in hammerspace. In Smash, I think it would effectively be Gun Marth vs. Gun Ike.

Frankly, I was actually thinking Doomguy wouldn't even be any kind of zoner, because in the context of Doom you're really not trying to outrange your opponents. There are a few ways I was thinking you could do that.

• The shotgun and maybe some of the other weapons only have their muzzle flash as their hitbox, without any kind of bullet hitbox or anything. This option ensures Doomguy's always right up in the action where he's supposed to be, but it does make him play like a swordie, which feels a little strange on the face of it.
• An ammo mechanic. Doomguy has a few bullets above his damage meter, and each time you use a gun attack, it takes one away. Unless you hit it from close enough range (a Glory Shot), which not only doesn't consume ammo, but actually gives you ammo back. If you have no ammo, only Glory Shots will actually connect. Maybe if you get enough Glory Shots with full ammo you get the new blood punch thing or something. With this option, Doomguy can indeed use his guns for the long-range attacks you'd expect, but if he tries laming someone out, he'll find himself in a world of hurt.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Instead of Morrigan, we should use... Basically a Morrigan clone. It feels like we're just trying to avoid using Morrigan just for the sake of not using Morrigan for some reason

MvC1 even thought they could get away with having "Lilith" just use Morrigan's sprites. She really isn't the best choice to prove there's more to Darkstalkers just for that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don’t know what your problem is. Yeah, I read your post and was agreeing with you that she could be censored like you suggested. I even apologized for offending anyone. I don’t know what more you want from me. Sorry I ever brought it up.

Sorry, it just sounded like you didn't.

Point remains Bayonetta worked, the same could be done for Morrigan censored like how Corrin, Palutena, Pyra, and Mythra were and Shantae being a spirit.

Mai couldn't happen even as a background cameo is due to no panties which CERO has most issue with.

 

[Bobthealligator]

The same could be said for Bayonetta.

ESRB only care about cleavage.