Me too. Wonder if anything would've changed had Travis not been dormant for the better part of a decade, including during the ballot. He was always a character the fanbase took a shine towards, at least in the west.Hopefully Travis gets in next game.
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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II
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Jocario Zero
Smash Ace
A few that i like:
Brianna Knickerbocker: Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
Caitlin Glass: Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Johnny Yong Bosch: Emil Castagnier (Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World) (i like him and his game...)
Mike Pollock: Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
Can't think of more right now (i need to get some sleep now
)
- The World Ends with You
- Rampage
- Sakura Wars
- Famicom Detective Club
- Ghosts 'n Goblins
cothero
Smash Lord
I was thinking about a SIMS character getting in smash and i just remembered that we already have one rep in smash (although not playable). This guy:
The whole SIM franchise started with SimCity and it's part of the whole SIM universe, so it's pretty neat that the series got some recognition in smash.
The whole SIM franchise started with SimCity and it's part of the whole SIM universe, so it's pretty neat that the series got some recognition in smash.
I know, that's the problem. You could've argued your case for Sakura and not Morrigan on your Lilith basis of wanting to give spotlight to the character who doesn't usually get the star treatment within the respective series, which... isn't how Smash works, but at least would've been logically consistent.
But instead you invoked popularity to justify Sakura, when if you invoke popularity, Morrigan would be the choice from Darkstalkers. Characters can get in more than a single way, but the same reasoning being used for one character is being deliberately overlooked for another. Confronted with that double standard, you've stuck by the opinion that double standards aren't that bad. Well, they are if you want to convince anyone who doesn't already share your opinions of anything. And that is generally the point when you make a case for/against a character.
The Rhythm Theif
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Even if I argued my case for Sakura instead of Lilith, this argument would have still ended the same way.
Guynamednelson
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Really if they go for a non-Morrigan Darkstalker, I'd think it'd be because Sakurai'd want someone who's less of a shotoclone more than anything else. And Lilith isn't really the solution to Sakurai wanting to avoid shotos as much as Felicia, Hsien-Ko, or BB Hood are, and let's face it, if Capcom and Nintendo insist on Darkstalkers and Sakurai thinks Morrigan is too much of a shoto, we're getting one of them instead.
Had you argued for Sakura on the basis you argued for Lilith, it would've ended in people telling you that that isn't how Smash chooses its characters, not going on about double standards. It's a stronger argument to focus on popularity, but you can't really cherrypick when you do that. If popularity matters, it could matter across the board.
Also, to the point of that SF poll, if it was the be all and end all of things, it would've taken us nine SF characters to get to Ryu. That poll is just a subset of that fanbase which doesn't account for the wider perspective, much like any Pokemon poll which doesn't place Pikachu incontrovertibly as number one.
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
Who're you picking?
My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.
Sakurai announces that the last two #SmashBros fighters are gonna be 1 third party to be revealed at E3 and 1 first party to be revealed in one final presentation.
— Bounce Dude. Spring Man for Next Smash? (@SpringBackUpMan) May 5, 2021
Who are you picking? pic.twitter.com/47AIWJs6jW
My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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I'm telling you all, we get Demitri, and his Final Smash is the Rule 63 thing he does.
Weelll now:
So that's where part of the $880 million R&D budget's going to. It's completely logical for Nintendo to R&D the successor now (and judging by Furukawa's previous comments about the Switch being at the "mid-way point" we're looking at a 2023-2025ish window for the heir).
Now I'm not sure how this affects Smash's future post-FP2, but chances are pretty good that Sakurai gets a vacation no matter if Ultimate somehow continues post-FP2 or (most likely) not. Any project he'd undertake would most likely not be ready until the successor launches.
Nintendo has said that investment in Switch’s successor contributed to record annual R&D spend at the company.https://t.co/IF9s3eCs6d pic.twitter.com/BuINmvH9YF
— VGC (@VGC_News) May 6, 2021
So that's where part of the $880 million R&D budget's going to. It's completely logical for Nintendo to R&D the successor now (and judging by Furukawa's previous comments about the Switch being at the "mid-way point" we're looking at a 2023-2025ish window for the heir).
Now I'm not sure how this affects Smash's future post-FP2, but chances are pretty good that Sakurai gets a vacation no matter if Ultimate somehow continues post-FP2 or (most likely) not. Any project he'd undertake would most likely not be ready until the successor launches.
Picking Dota 2 rep or LoL rep and RFA.
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Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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Reimu and Octoling
Speed Weed
Smash Master
More than anything I'm just baffled that Lilith is being used as the great big example of "there's other more interesting characters in Darkstalkers".
The cast of Darkstalkers includes such characters as a kung-fu werewolf, a deranged rockstar zombie who can turn you into a basketball and slam dunk you for one of his attacks, and Little Red Riding Hood with a gun.
And Lilith is the character you're referring to to exemplify the worth of Darkstalkers characters other than Morrigan.
The cast of Darkstalkers includes such characters as a kung-fu werewolf, a deranged rockstar zombie who can turn you into a basketball and slam dunk you for one of his attacks, and Little Red Riding Hood with a gun.
And Lilith is the character you're referring to to exemplify the worth of Darkstalkers characters other than Morrigan.
Louie G.
Smash Hero
Arle and Chorus Kids, obviously.
Also, on the topic of Darkstalkers, I vouch for Morrigan obviously because she makes the most sense, but if Hsien-Ko or BB Hood made it instead by some miracle I'd probably end up playing them a whole lot more. But yknow, there's certainly a heirarchy that exists and Morrigan absolutely has to be there before anyone. Just like Chun-Li is indisputably second in line for Street Fighter (unique character-wise), demonstrably in a wide variety of existing crossovers just as Morrigan always takes first billing when it comes to Darkstalkers in MVC and whatnot.
Second on that totem pole would be Demitri, but unfortunately I don't believe Midnight Bliss would fly in Smash.
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SharkLord
Smash Hero
chocolatejr9
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I know it won't, but COME ON, it'd be funny! Think of the references!
Ivander
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Research and Development.
Speed Weed
Smash Master
demitri pulls midnight bliss on wario
wario remains unchanged
you cannot make wario more attractive. wario is already perfect.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
Ah, that makes sense. So basically, they're looking into marketing and interest and trends and stuff like that so they can start properly planning for the Super Switch/Switch Pro/Switch 2/whatever.
LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
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Honestly what has me potentially excited from the good news of Nintendo's sales is that it might mean some real investment with R&D for various games on the next system. Switch has been built to be cost effective, hence all the Wii U ports and various games clearly build from the infrastructure of predecessors. That makes complete business sense and has really allowed the company to be so in the black this gen. However I'm really hoping that means real progress in doing certain series real justice with the next console and it overall having a fresh library.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting any miracles like F-Zero coming back or for remakes/remasters to stop (there's many ones from the Gamecube/Wii era alone to make money off of), I just hope the Switch 2 period is one that feels more defined by major series content across the board. Its fantastic that 3D Zelda, Mario, Smash, FE, Splatoon, & Luigi's Mansion, etc have gotten titles truly worthy of their reputation. It would be nice to see Kirby, Mario Party, Metroid, Donkey Kong, & so many others get the same at some point.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting any miracles like F-Zero coming back or for remakes/remasters to stop (there's many ones from the Gamecube/Wii era alone to make money off of), I just hope the Switch 2 period is one that feels more defined by major series content across the board. Its fantastic that 3D Zelda, Mario, Smash, FE, Splatoon, & Luigi's Mansion, etc have gotten titles truly worthy of their reputation. It would be nice to see Kirby, Mario Party, Metroid, Donkey Kong, & so many others get the same at some point.
Guynamednelson
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You're probably just ****posting, but Dmitri is even closer to being a shoto than Morrigan. At the very least, Morrigan still has a command grab instead of a Tatsumaki equivalent.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
The same applies to King Dedede. Like Wario, he is already at the peak of genetic perfection, and has no way to improve beyond his current level.
Technomage
Smash Champion
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I pick Crash and Krystal.
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Can you REALLY say that when Buff Dedede exists?
Yes.
As a bonus: One can D-Tilt out of the crouch, then resume the crouch. D-Tilt also sends at a very low angle, making it a perfect complimentary KO move for the crouch at high %s.
Technomage
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That inspires a question I have for everyone here: If Capcom were to get another character, and you had to pick between Chun-Li and Morrigan, who would you pick? I'd personally pick Morrigan, since getting a 3rd Street Fighter before a character from a different Capcom game would kinda be too samey and, as someone else once said, underwhelming. Plus, I don't think Smash has any succubi, even in non-playable roles.
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Paraster
Smash Lord
Bandana Waddle Dee and Quote.
Mushroomguy12
Smash Hero
ALongWistfulSquiggle
Smash Lord
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Isn't the transformation just Dedede flexing? That says to me that he's been buff all along. He just doesn't want to destroy his clothes.
Evil Trapezium
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Sgt. Cortez and John Raimi
One travels through time and the other becomes a ghost.
Paraster
Smash Lord
As someone who has never played Street Fighter or Darkstalkers, I'd say Morrigan for the sake of series variety and because a
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Technomage
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Good point, too, though I did say that Morrigan is a succubus (well, implied, but I specified succubus).
Paraster
Smash Lord
I noticed that after you hit like but before you made this reply lol
I was not paying attention apparently
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Technomage
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I see.
Though I forgot the elephant in the room of Morrigan getting a redesign for good boys and girls; what would she look like with such a design?
LiveStudioAudience
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Bandana Dee & Amaterasu
Louie G.
Smash Hero
To elaborate further on the "hierarchy" of characters within a series like we've been discussing, I'm generally pretty lenient on what that entails but I think for many series there's a clear bare minimum lineup that must be maintained. And then once that is established you can do pretty much whatever.
Like for example, we're at a point where I think anyone from Mario is viable.
are the absolute must haves and anyone after that, as far as I'm concerned, is bonus (excluding those who can represent their own series like Yoshi and Wario). Like, Rosalina isn't objectively the fifth most important Mario character but we reach a point where it's negligible and no longer much of a factor.
is another one. We can get into the weeds of whether or not Impa is technically the next most important character, or whether one-shot supporting characters ought to be playable, but the fact that it's a debate at all is telling enough.
These are extremely obvious but, for some reason, it's Street Fighter that this community often finds itself struggling to grasp. Anyone with a surface level knowledge of the series could tell you that Ryu and Chun-Li are the faces of the franchise and the absolute musts for any SF crossover (the only two SF characters with perfect attendance in Vs Capcom, both front and center on the cover of SFV...), but since we got Ken as an echo fighter it throws them for this loop where they question how important Chun-Li really is. It's unbelievable to me that people are either that detached from general knowledge of Street Fighter or that confirmation bias is just so strong in the community that Chun-Li getting snubbed for a relatively easy clone means she wouldn't be a priority.
Anyway, I think the conversation is mostly over but I do think there's some necessary order for certain series on the roster, and Ken withstanding Street Fighter is one of them.... Sonic is another story, though.
I want them about equally but while I would be excited for Chun-Li, Morrigan would blow my mind as it's the furthest thing from my expectations.
Like for example, we're at a point where I think anyone from Mario is viable.
are the absolute must haves and anyone after that, as far as I'm concerned, is bonus (excluding those who can represent their own series like Yoshi and Wario). Like, Rosalina isn't objectively the fifth most important Mario character but we reach a point where it's negligible and no longer much of a factor. is another one. We can get into the weeds of whether or not Impa is technically the next most important character, or whether one-shot supporting characters ought to be playable, but the fact that it's a debate at all is telling enough.These are extremely obvious but, for some reason, it's Street Fighter that this community often finds itself struggling to grasp. Anyone with a surface level knowledge of the series could tell you that Ryu and Chun-Li are the faces of the franchise and the absolute musts for any SF crossover (the only two SF characters with perfect attendance in Vs Capcom, both front and center on the cover of SFV...), but since we got Ken as an echo fighter it throws them for this loop where they question how important Chun-Li really is. It's unbelievable to me that people are either that detached from general knowledge of Street Fighter or that confirmation bias is just so strong in the community that Chun-Li getting snubbed for a relatively easy clone means she wouldn't be a priority.
Anyway, I think the conversation is mostly over but I do think there's some necessary order for certain series on the roster, and Ken withstanding Street Fighter is one of them.... Sonic is another story, though.
I would pick Morrigan, not because of anything about reps or whatever but I like Darkstalkers marginally more than Street Fighter and there's a lot more to gain through signal boosting a dead franchise rather than one that gets a lot of love as is. The inclusion of Morrigan in Smash would be amazing as a fan of Darkstalkers but also a beacon of hope for reinvigorated interest in the series.
I want them about equally but while I would be excited for Chun-Li, Morrigan would blow my mind as it's the furthest thing from my expectations.
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Technomage
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You forgot to mention an exception to the hierarchy rule, where Min Min got in before Spring Man, the mascot and shoto of ARMS. Though maybe ARMS could end up creating its own hierarchy, where in other crossover games with ARMS characters, Min Min has to get in first?To elaborate further on the "hierarchy" of characters within a series like we've been discussing, I'm generally pretty lenient on what that entails but I think for many series there's a clear bare minimum lineup that must be maintained. And then once that is established you can do pretty much whatever.
Like for example, we're at a point where I think anyone from Mario is viable.
These are extremely obvious but, for some reason, it's Street Fighter that this community often finds itself struggling to grasp. Anyone with a surface level knowledge of the series could tell you that Ryu and Chun-Li are the faces of the franchise and the absolute musts for any SF crossover (the only two SF characters with perfect attendance in Vs Capcom, both front and center on the cover of SFV...), but since we got Ken as an echo fighter it throws them for this loop where they question how important Chun-Li really is. It's unbelievable to me that people are either that detached from general knowledge of Street Fighter or that confirmation bias is just so strong in the community that Chun-Li getting snubbed for a relatively easy clone means she wouldn't be a priority.
Anyway, I think the conversation is mostly over but I do think there's some necessary order for certain series on the roster, and Ken withstanding Street Fighter is one of them.... Sonic is another story, though.
Peripuff
Smash Journeyman
Arle and Elma
Louie G.
Smash Hero
I didn't mention it because ARMS is still building its identity. It's a lot more viable to consider that ARMS may switch up its major players moving forward based on who the audience latches onto (Min Min) rather than like, something like that Street Fighter poll mentioned before where Ryu and Chun-Li have already cemented themselves as the most significant characters.
Because as is ARMS doesn't even have a story, every character is equally significant to their own path for now - beyond the boxart and tutorial, nobody is more important than the other (except for Max Brass and Dr. Coyle, who actually have active roles in everyone's story). If they have a more fleshed out world and story next time around then I think we'd start to be able to judge kind of differently. But it's not remotely comparable to the likes of Mario or Zelda where their casts have been cemented over the course of over thirty years.
Hell, Morrigan arguably rose to prominence within Darkstalkers / VS Capcom in a similar way that Min Min seems to be heading. I should mention that the series is called Vampire in Japan... after Demitri, not Morrigan. Fighting games have very flexible casts in this regard, just when you've got as established of a legacy as Street Fighter there isn't much room for that flexibility anymore.
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Nintendo is on record as starting R&D for the next system as soon as the current one launches, so this is pretty par for the course.
It's not a super common viewpoint, but it's one so obtuse that it's memorable.
I mean, sometimes the system a bit looser than other times, but it's clearly there.
I'm baffled when I see people ascribe what is clearly a general hierarchical system solely to Sakurai seemingly finding the choices we've been given as the most interesting. Just a coincidence it aligns with the fact that it could mistaken for an intact and active hierarchy, then, is it?To elaborate further on the "hierarchy" of characters within a series like we've been discussing, I'm generally pretty lenient on what that entails but I think for many series there's a clear bare minimum lineup that must be maintained. And then once that is established you can do pretty much whatever.
Like for example, we're at a point where I think anyone from Mario is viable.
These are extremely obvious but, for some reason, it's Street Fighter that this community often finds itself struggling to grasp. Anyone with a surface level knowledge of the series could tell you that Ryu and Chun-Li are the faces of the franchise and the absolute musts for any SF crossover (the only two SF characters with perfect attendance in Vs Capcom, both front and center on the cover of SFV...), but since we got Ken as an echo fighter it throws them for this loop where they question how important Chun-Li really is. It's unbelievable to me that people are either that detached from general knowledge of Street Fighter or that confirmation bias is just so strong in the community that Chun-Li getting snubbed for a relatively easy clone means she wouldn't be a priority.
Anyway, I think the conversation is mostly over but I do think there's some necessary order for certain series on the roster, and Ken withstanding Street Fighter is one of them.... Sonic is another story, though.
I would pick Morrigan, not because of anything about reps or whatever but I like Darkstalkers marginally more than Street Fighter and there's a lot more to gain through signal boosting a dead franchise rather than one that gets a lot of love as is. The inclusion of Morrigan in Smash would be amazing as a fan of Darkstalkers but also a beacon of hope for reinvigorated interest in the series.
I want them about equally but while I would be excited for Chun-Li, Morrigan would blow my mind as it's the furthest thing from my expectations.
It's not a super common viewpoint, but it's one so obtuse that it's memorable.
I mean, sometimes the system a bit looser than other times, but it's clearly there.
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