Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[N3ON]

Hopefully Travis gets in next game.

Me too. Wonder if anything would've changed had Travis not been dormant for the better part of a decade, including during the ballot. He was always a character the fanbase took a shine towards, at least in the west.

 

[Jocario Zero]

I’m not sure if anyone else is a fan of any particular voice actors or actresses. Sometimes, just featuring a voice actor or actress I like can be enough for me to try out a game or show I otherwise may have missed out on. If you could add any character voiced by one of your favorites, who would you choose? I’ll start off with some of mine:

Crispin Freeman: Albel Nox (Star Ocean 3)
Steve Blum: Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy)
Johnny Yong Bosch: Zero (Mega Man X)
Wendee Lee: Rozalin (Disgaea 2)
Luci Christian: Gaige (Borderlands 2)
Cherami Leigh: Makoto (Persona 5)

A few that i like:

Brianna Knickerbocker: Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
Caitlin Glass: Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
Johnny Yong Bosch: Emil Castagnier (Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World) (i like him and his game...)
Mike Pollock: Dr. Eggman (Sonic)

Can't think of more right now (i need to get some sleep now )

 

[Perkilator]

New topic: What games would you like to see get Spirit Events (as in ones with brand new spirits)? My picks are:

Etrian Odyssey
Other Final Fantasy series (especially FF11)
Master of Orion
Stars in Shadow
The Sims
Crash Bandicoot (if Crash doesn't make it in as a playable fighter)
Five Nights at Freddy's
Spyro the Dragon
Metal Slug
The Elder Scrolls

• The World Ends with You
• Rampage
• Sakura Wars
• Famicom Detective Club
• Ghosts 'n Goblins

 

[cothero]

I was thinking about a SIMS character getting in smash and i just remembered that we already have one rep in smash (although not playable). This guy:

The whole SIM franchise started with SimCity and it's part of the whole SIM universe, so it's pretty neat that the series got some recognition in smash.

 

[N3ON]

I'm serious, N3ON.

I know, that's the problem. You could've argued your case for Sakura and not Morrigan on your Lilith basis of wanting to give spotlight to the character who doesn't usually get the star treatment within the respective series, which... isn't how Smash works, but at least would've been logically consistent.

But instead you invoked popularity to justify Sakura, when if you invoke popularity, Morrigan would be the choice from Darkstalkers. Characters can get in more than a single way, but the same reasoning being used for one character is being deliberately overlooked for another. Confronted with that double standard, you've stuck by the opinion that double standards aren't that bad. Well, they are if you want to convince anyone who doesn't already share your opinions of anything. And that is generally the point when you make a case for/against a character.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I know, that's the problem. You could've argued your case for Sakura and not Morrigan on your Lilith basis of wanting to give spotlight to the character who doesn't usually get the star treatment within the respective series, which... isn't how Smash works, but at least would've been logically consistent.

But instead you invoked popularity to justify Sakura, when if you invoke popularity, Morrigan would be the choice from Darkstalkers. Characters can get in more than a single way, but the same reasoning being used for one character is being deliberately overlooked for another. Confronted with that double standard, you've stuck by the opinion that double standards aren't that bad. Well, they are if you want to convince anyone who doesn't already share your opinions of anything. And that is generally the point when you make a case for/against a character.

Even if I argued my case for Sakura instead of Lilith, this argument would have still ended the same way.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Really if they go for a non-Morrigan Darkstalker, I'd think it'd be because Sakurai'd want someone who's less of a shotoclone more than anything else. And Lilith isn't really the solution to Sakurai wanting to avoid shotos as much as Felicia, Hsien-Ko, or BB Hood are, and let's face it, if Capcom and Nintendo insist on Darkstalkers and Sakurai thinks Morrigan is too much of a shoto, we're getting one of them instead.

 

[N3ON]

Even if I argued my case for Sakura instead of Lilith, this argument would have still ended the same way.

Had you argued for Sakura on the basis you argued for Lilith, it would've ended in people telling you that that isn't how Smash chooses its characters, not going on about double standards. It's a stronger argument to focus on popularity, but you can't really cherrypick when you do that. If popularity matters, it could matter across the board.

Also, to the point of that SF poll, if it was the be all and end all of things, it would've taken us nine SF characters to get to Ryu. That poll is just a subset of that fanbase which doesn't account for the wider perspective, much like any Pokemon poll which doesn't place Pikachu incontrovertibly as number one.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Who're you picking?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Really if they go for a non-Morrigan Darkstalker, I'd think it'd be because Sakurai'd want someone who's less of a shotoclone more than anything else. And Lilith isn't really the solution to Sakurai wanting to avoid shotos as much as Felicia, Hsien-Ko, or BB Hood are, and let's face it, if Capcom and Nintendo insist on Darkstalkers and Sakurai thinks Morrigan is too much of a shoto, we're getting one of them instead.

I'm telling you all, we get Demitri, and his Final Smash is the Rule 63 thing he does.

 

[SKX31]

Weelll now:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So that's where part of the $880 million R&D budget's going to. It's completely logical for Nintendo to R&D the successor now (and judging by Furukawa's previous comments about the Switch being at the "mid-way point" we're looking at a 2023-2025ish window for the heir).

Now I'm not sure how this affects Smash's future post-FP2, but chances are pretty good that Sakurai gets a vacation no matter if Ultimate somehow continues post-FP2 or (most likely) not. Any project he'd undertake would most likely not be ready until the successor launches.

Who're you picking?


My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

Picking Dota 2 rep or LoL rep and RFA.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who're you picking?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

Reimu and Octoling

 

[Speed Weed]

More than anything I'm just baffled that Lilith is being used as the great big example of "there's other more interesting characters in Darkstalkers".

The cast of Darkstalkers includes such characters as a kung-fu werewolf, a deranged rockstar zombie who can turn you into a basketball and slam dunk you for one of his attacks, and Little Red Riding Hood with a gun.

And Lilith is the character you're referring to to exemplify the worth of Darkstalkers characters other than Morrigan.

 

[Louie G.]

Who're you picking?

Arle and Chorus Kids, obviously.

Also, on the topic of Darkstalkers, I vouch for Morrigan obviously because she makes the most sense, but if Hsien-Ko or BB Hood made it instead by some miracle I'd probably end up playing them a whole lot more. But yknow, there's certainly a heirarchy that exists and Morrigan absolutely has to be there before anyone. Just like Chun-Li is indisputably second in line for Street Fighter (unique character-wise), demonstrably in a wide variety of existing crossovers just as Morrigan always takes first billing when it comes to Darkstalkers in MVC and whatnot.

Second on that totem pole would be Demitri, but unfortunately I don't believe Midnight Bliss would fly in Smash.

 

[SharkLord]

Weelll now:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So that's where part of the $880 million R&D budget's going to. It's completely logical for Nintendo to R&D the successor now (and judging by Furukawa's previous comments about the Switch being at the "mid-way point" we're looking at a 2023-2025ish window for the heir).

Now I'm not sure how this affects Smash's future post-FP2, but chances are pretty good that Sakurai gets a vacation no matter if Ultimate somehow continues post-FP2 or (most likely) not. Any project he'd undertake would most likely not be ready until the successor launches..

Ah, interesting.

...Wait, what does R&D mean again?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Second on that totem pole would be Demitri, but unfortunately I don't believe Midnight Bliss would fly in Smash.

I know it won't, but COME ON, it'd be funny! Think of the references!

 

[Ivander]

Ah, interesting.

...Wait, what does R&D mean again?

Research and Development.

 

[Speed Weed]

I know it won't, but COME ON, it'd be funny! Think of the references!

demitri pulls midnight bliss on wario

wario remains unchanged

you cannot make wario more attractive. wario is already perfect.

 

[SharkLord]

Research and Development.

Ah, that makes sense. So basically, they're looking into marketing and interest and trends and stuff like that so they can start properly planning for the Super Switch/Switch Pro/Switch 2/whatever.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly what has me potentially excited from the good news of Nintendo's sales is that it might mean some real investment with R&D for various games on the next system. Switch has been built to be cost effective, hence all the Wii U ports and various games clearly build from the infrastructure of predecessors. That makes complete business sense and has really allowed the company to be so in the black this gen. However I'm really hoping that means real progress in doing certain series real justice with the next console and it overall having a fresh library.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting any miracles like F-Zero coming back or for remakes/remasters to stop (there's many ones from the Gamecube/Wii era alone to make money off of), I just hope the Switch 2 period is one that feels more defined by major series content across the board. Its fantastic that 3D Zelda, Mario, Smash, FE, Splatoon, & Luigi's Mansion, etc have gotten titles truly worthy of their reputation. It would be nice to see Kirby, Mario Party, Metroid, Donkey Kong, & so many others get the same at some point.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm telling you all, we get Demitri, and his Final Smash is the Rule 63 thing he does.

You're probably just ****posting, but Dmitri is even closer to being a shoto than Morrigan. At the very least, Morrigan still has a command grab instead of a Tatsumaki equivalent.

 

[SharkLord]

demitri pulls midnight bliss on wario

wario remains unchanged

you cannot make wario more attractive. wario is already perfect.

The same applies to King Dedede. Like Wario, he is already at the peak of genetic perfection, and has no way to improve beyond his current level.

 

[Technomage]

Who're you picking?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

I pick Crash and Krystal.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The same applies to King Dedede. Like Wario, he is already at the peak of genetic perfection, and has no way to improve beyond his current level.

Can you REALLY say that when Buff Dedede exists?

 

[SKX31]

Can you REALLY say that when Buff Dedede exists?

Yes.

As a bonus: One can D-Tilt out of the crouch, then resume the crouch. D-Tilt also sends at a very low angle, making it a perfect complimentary KO move for the crouch at high %s.

 

[Technomage]

Also, on the topic of Darkstalkers, I vouch for Morrigan obviously because she makes the most sense, but if Hsien-Ko or BB Hood made it instead by some miracle I'd probably end up playing them a whole lot more. But yknow, there's certainly a heirarchy that exists and Morrigan absolutely has to be there before anyone. Just like Chun-Li is indisputably second in line for Street Fighter (unique character-wise), demonstrably in a wide variety of existing crossovers just as Morrigan always takes first billing when it comes to Darkstalkers in MVC and whatnot.

That inspires a question I have for everyone here: If Capcom were to get another character, and you had to pick between Chun-Li and Morrigan, who would you pick? I'd personally pick Morrigan, since getting a 3rd Street Fighter before a character from a different Capcom game would kinda be too samey and, as someone else once said, underwhelming. Plus, I don't think Smash has any succubi, even in non-playable roles.

 

[Paraster]

Who're you picking?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

Bandana Waddle Dee and Quote.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Second on that totem pole would be Demitri, but unfortunately I don't believe Midnight Bliss would fly in Smash.

I think Nintendo has already learned their lesson from this.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Can you REALLY say that when Buff Dedede exists?

Isn't the transformation just Dedede flexing? That says to me that he's been buff all along. He just doesn't want to destroy his clothes.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Who're you picking?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

Sgt. Cortez and John Raimi

One travels through time and the other becomes a ghost.

 

[Paraster]

That inspires a question I have for everyone here: If Capcom were to get another character, and you had to pick between Chun-Li and Morrigan, who would you pick? I'd personally pick Morrigan, since getting a 3rd Street Fighter before a character from a different Capcom game would kinda be too samey and, as someone else once said, underwhelming. Plus, I don't think Smash has any succubi, even in non-playable roles.

As someone who has never played Street Fighter or Darkstalkers, I'd say Morrigan for the sake of series variety and because a vampire/succubus/whatever she is seems more unique and interesting than a martial artist who uses kicks a lot.

 

[Technomage]

As someone who has never played Street Fighter or Darkstalkers, I'd say Morrigan for the sake of series variety and because a vampire/succubus/whatever she is seems more unique and interesting than a martial artist who uses kicks a lot.

Good point, too, though I did say that Morrigan is a succubus (well, implied, but I specified succubus).

 

[Paraster]

Good point, too, though I did say that Morrigan is a succubus (well, implied, but I specified succubus).

I noticed that after you hit like but before you made this reply lol

I was not paying attention apparently

 

[Technomage]

I noticed that after you hit like but before you made this reply lol

I see.

Though I forgot the elephant in the room of Morrigan getting a redesign for good boys and girls; what would she look like with such a design?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Who're you picking?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

Bandana Dee & Amaterasu

 

[Louie G.]

To elaborate further on the "hierarchy" of characters within a series like we've been discussing, I'm generally pretty lenient on what that entails but I think for many series there's a clear bare minimum lineup that must be maintained. And then once that is established you can do pretty much whatever.

Like for example, we're at a point where I think anyone from Mario is viable. are the absolute must haves and anyone after that, as far as I'm concerned, is bonus (excluding those who can represent their own series like Yoshi and Wario). Like, Rosalina isn't objectively the fifth most important Mario character but we reach a point where it's negligible and no longer much of a factor.

is another one. We can get into the weeds of whether or not Impa is technically the next most important character, or whether one-shot supporting characters ought to be playable, but the fact that it's a debate at all is telling enough.

These are extremely obvious but, for some reason, it's Street Fighter that this community often finds itself struggling to grasp. Anyone with a surface level knowledge of the series could tell you that Ryu and Chun-Li are the faces of the franchise and the absolute musts for any SF crossover (the only two SF characters with perfect attendance in Vs Capcom, both front and center on the cover of SFV...), but since we got Ken as an echo fighter it throws them for this loop where they question how important Chun-Li really is. It's unbelievable to me that people are either that detached from general knowledge of Street Fighter or that confirmation bias is just so strong in the community that Chun-Li getting snubbed for a relatively easy clone means she wouldn't be a priority.

Anyway, I think the conversation is mostly over but I do think there's some necessary order for certain series on the roster, and Ken withstanding Street Fighter is one of them.... Sonic is another story, though.

If Capcom were to get another character, and you had to pick between Chun-Li and Morrigan, who would you pick?

I would pick Morrigan, not because of anything about reps or whatever but I like Darkstalkers marginally more than Street Fighter and there's a lot more to gain through signal boosting a dead franchise rather than one that gets a lot of love as is. The inclusion of Morrigan in Smash would be amazing as a fan of Darkstalkers but also a beacon of hope for reinvigorated interest in the series.

I want them about equally but while I would be excited for Chun-Li, Morrigan would blow my mind as it's the furthest thing from my expectations.

 

[Technomage]

To elaborate further on the "hierarchy" of characters within a series like we've been discussing, I'm generally pretty lenient on what that entails but I think for many series there's a clear bare minimum lineup that must be maintained. And then once that is established you can do pretty much whatever.

Like for example, we're at a point where I think anyone from Mario is viable. are the absolute must haves and anyone after that, as far as I'm concerned, is bonus (excluding those who can represent their own series like Yoshi and Wario). Like, Rosalina isn't objectively the fifth most important Mario character but we reach a point where it's negligible and no longer much of a factor.

is another one. We can get into the weeds of whether or not Impa is technically the next most important character, or whether one-shot supporting characters ought to be playable, but the fact that it's a debate at all is telling enough.

These are extremely obvious but, for some reason, it's Street Fighter that this community often finds itself struggling to grasp. Anyone with a surface level knowledge of the series could tell you that Ryu and Chun-Li are the faces of the franchise and the absolute musts for any SF crossover (the only two SF characters with perfect attendance in Vs Capcom, both front and center on the cover of SFV...), but since we got Ken as an echo fighter it throws them for this loop where they question how important Chun-Li really is. It's unbelievable to me that people are either that detached from general knowledge of Street Fighter or that confirmation bias is just so strong in the community that Chun-Li getting snubbed for a relatively easy clone means she wouldn't be a priority.

Anyway, I think the conversation is mostly over but I do think there's some necessary order for certain series on the roster, and Ken withstanding Street Fighter is one of them.... Sonic is another story, though.

You forgot to mention an exception to the hierarchy rule, where Min Min got in before Spring Man, the mascot and shoto of ARMS. Though maybe ARMS could end up creating its own hierarchy, where in other crossover games with ARMS characters, Min Min has to get in first?

 

[Peripuff]

Who're you picking?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

My picks are Sora and Dixie Kong.

Arle and Elma

 

[Louie G.]

You forgot to mention an exception to the hierarchy rule, where Min Min got in before Spring Man, the mascot and shoto of ARMS. Though maybe ARMS could end up creating its own hierarchy, where in other crossover games with ARMS characters, Min Min has to get in first?

I didn't mention it because ARMS is still building its identity. It's a lot more viable to consider that ARMS may switch up its major players moving forward based on who the audience latches onto (Min Min) rather than like, something like that Street Fighter poll mentioned before where Ryu and Chun-Li have already cemented themselves as the most significant characters.

Because as is ARMS doesn't even have a story, every character is equally significant to their own path for now - beyond the boxart and tutorial, nobody is more important than the other (except for Max Brass and Dr. Coyle, who actually have active roles in everyone's story). If they have a more fleshed out world and story next time around then I think we'd start to be able to judge kind of differently. But it's not remotely comparable to the likes of Mario or Zelda where their casts have been cemented over the course of over thirty years.

Hell, Morrigan arguably rose to prominence within Darkstalkers / VS Capcom in a similar way that Min Min seems to be heading. I should mention that the series is called Vampire in Japan... after Demitri, not Morrigan. Fighting games have very flexible casts in this regard, just when you've got as established of a legacy as Street Fighter there isn't much room for that flexibility anymore.

 

[N3ON]

Nintendo is on record as starting R&D for the next system as soon as the current one launches, so this is pretty par for the course.

To elaborate further on the "hierarchy" of characters within a series like we've been discussing, I'm generally pretty lenient on what that entails but I think for many series there's a clear bare minimum lineup that must be maintained. And then once that is established you can do pretty much whatever.

Like for example, we're at a point where I think anyone from Mario is viable. are the absolute must haves and anyone after that, as far as I'm concerned, is bonus (excluding those who can represent their own series like Yoshi and Wario). Like, Rosalina isn't objectively the fifth most important Mario character but we reach a point where it's negligible and no longer much of a factor.

is another one. We can get into the weeds of whether or not Impa is technically the next most important character, or whether one-shot supporting characters ought to be playable, but the fact that it's a debate at all is telling enough.

These are extremely obvious but, for some reason, it's Street Fighter that this community often finds itself struggling to grasp. Anyone with a surface level knowledge of the series could tell you that Ryu and Chun-Li are the faces of the franchise and the absolute musts for any SF crossover (the only two SF characters with perfect attendance in Vs Capcom, both front and center on the cover of SFV...), but since we got Ken as an echo fighter it throws them for this loop where they question how important Chun-Li really is. It's unbelievable to me that people are either that detached from general knowledge of Street Fighter or that confirmation bias is just so strong in the community that Chun-Li getting snubbed for a relatively easy clone means she wouldn't be a priority.

Anyway, I think the conversation is mostly over but I do think there's some necessary order for certain series on the roster, and Ken withstanding Street Fighter is one of them.... Sonic is another story, though.



I would pick Morrigan, not because of anything about reps or whatever but I like Darkstalkers marginally more than Street Fighter and there's a lot more to gain through signal boosting a dead franchise rather than one that gets a lot of love as is. The inclusion of Morrigan in Smash would be amazing as a fan of Darkstalkers but also a beacon of hope for reinvigorated interest in the series.

I want them about equally but while I would be excited for Chun-Li, Morrigan would blow my mind as it's the furthest thing from my expectations.

I'm baffled when I see people ascribe what is clearly a general hierarchical system solely to Sakurai seemingly finding the choices we've been given as the most interesting. Just a coincidence it aligns with the fact that it could mistaken for an intact and active hierarchy, then, is it?

It's not a super common viewpoint, but it's one so obtuse that it's memorable.

I mean, sometimes the system a bit looser than other times, but it's clearly there.