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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

SpectreJordan

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Could be something else as well. There have been rumors regarding Halo on the Switch for a while now, no?

That said, if it was Chief in Smash, it would absolutely be an E3 reveal. Assuming we only get one character, I think Chief has to be next or he's not in at all. I can't see Nintendo ending DLC on him. Though to be fair this also applies to a number of other "big" characters, especially western ones.

Regardless, the next time someone calls the Smash fanbase crazy for overanalyzing backgrounds in presentations, I'm swiftly pointing them to this. :roll:
Unlike Sakurai, Spencer’s teased a couple things using his background display before. He hid the Xbox Series S in one video before it was announced & no one had realized lmao
 

SWSU

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I think a Dark Souls character has a pretty good chance. What do you all think?
I don't think so. Generic Mideval Armor Guys don't exactly scream Smash to me. Same reason I really doubt picks like Monster Hunter or Dragonborn as well.
 

Gnateb

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Mar 20, 2021
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While I'll admit that Lloyd is looking more likely right now, I think that Dark Souls is bigger and more important to Bamco in some ways. The three Dark Souls games alone sold 27 million copies as of May last year, which is like 3 million more than the entire Tales of Series.
 
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SKX31

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I don't think so. Generic Mideval Armor Guys don't exactly scream Smash to me. Same reason I really doubt picks like Monster Hunter or Dragonborn as well.
TBF, the first third party ever introduced - a modern day Black Op - didn't scream Smash at first glance either...



Yet here we are.
 
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SharkLord

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While we're talking Souls and related games, I hear Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice has a fair bit of Souls DNA in it. It seems to have done pretty well, and it also looks to be owned by Activision, who's decently close to Nintendo at the moment. I'm not sure if it's exactly likely, but given that we got a Persona 5 pack despite the game not being on Nintendo systems, would you say a Sekiro pack is at least feasible?
 

SWSU

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TBF, the first third party ever introduced - a modern day Black Op - didn't scream Smash at first glance either...

Yet here we are.
But look at what he is. Defined Character, Defined Name, Defined Personality. If you think Metal Gear Solid, you think Snake, if you think Dark Souls.... Who do you think of? Dark Souls would work best as a Mii Costume if anything.
 

SNEKeater

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While I'll admit that Lloyd is looking more likely right now, I think that Dark Souls is bigger and more important to Bamco in some ways. The three Dark Souls games along sold 27 million copies as of May last year, which is like 3 million more than the entire Tales of Series.
Sales don't determine who gets in and who doesn't. If that was the case Steve would have been the first Microsoft character and Master Chief the second one. We got Mega Man as our first Capcom rep when at the time Street Fighter sold more, and despite Monster Hunter being the Capcom franchise with higher sales, we still got Mega Man and Ryu first.

I agree that Dark Souls is more popular and influential than Tales though. But I strongly doubt Nintendo would favor Dark Souls just because it has sold 3 million of copies more than Tales, to be honest.
 

Gnateb

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Sales don't determine who gets in and who doesn't. If that was the case Steve would have been the first Microsoft character and Master Chief the second one. We got Mega Man as our first Capcom rep when at the time Street Fighter sold more, and despite Monster Hunter being the Capcom franchise with higher sales, we still got Mega Man and Ryu first.

I agree that Dark Souls is more popular and influential than Tales though. But I strongly doubt Nintendo would favor Dark Souls just because it has sold 3 million of copies more than Tales, to be honest.
I agree that sales aren't everything, I was just using sales as a possible reason why Souls might be especially important to Bandai Namco. Also correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't Steve's smash negotiations start before Banjo's?
In the end it's really up to Nintendo for sure
 
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Gnateb

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But look at what he is. Defined Character, Defined Name, Defined Personality. If you think Metal Gear Solid, you think Snake, if you think Dark Souls.... Who do you think of? Dark Souls would work best as a Mii Costume if anything.
A bunch of emotionless avatar characters are in smash though, like Steve and (to a lesser extent) Byleth. Steve is also semi-unnamed, like the Chosen Undead. You have a point about what the icon of Dark Souls is. Even as a Souls fan, the first characters that come to mind are Solaire and Artorias. However, Nintendo usually opts for the playable character regardless, maybe because they have more moveset potential or something. For example, Byleth got in over the more popular house leaders.
 
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SharkLord

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But look at what he is. Defined Character, Defined Name, Defined Personality. If you think Metal Gear Solid, you think Snake, if you think Dark Souls.... Who do you think of? Dark Souls would work best as a Mii Costume if anything.
  • :ultpokemontrainer: - Customizable self-insert, no name, no personality
  • :ultvillager: - Customizable self-insert, no name, no personality
  • :ultinkling: - Customizable self-insert, no name, mild personality
  • :ultsteve: - Customizable self-insert, name, no personality (Well, one could argue he does have a personality, but a large portion of it is derived from an absence of personality)
I really don't understand the "Must be a defined character" thing. Even then, if it's that much of an issue we can just use Solaire or Artorias, who are popular, defined characters, with the former even getting his own amiibo.
 

PeridotGX

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Flaming
But look at what he is. Defined Character, Defined Name, Defined Personality. If you think Banjo, you think Banjo, if you think Minecraft.... Who do you think of? Minecraft would work best as a Mii Costume if anything.
-idiots, circa 2019
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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  • :ultpokemontrainer: - Customizable self-insert, no name, no personality
  • :ultvillager: - Customizable self-insert, no name, no personality
  • :ultinkling: - Customizable self-insert, no name, mild personality
  • :ultsteve: - Customizable self-insert, name, no personality (Well, one could argue he does have a personality, but a large portion of it is derived from an absence of personality)
I really don't understand the "Must be a defined character" thing. Even then, if it's that much of an issue we can just use Solaire or Artorias, who are popular, defined characters, with the former even getting his own amiibo.
I've had this conversation before, and their stance is that generic characters are OK if they are cartoony, realistic characters are OK if they are well defined, but if they're both generic and realistic, they don't fit.

They'll probably just have to see it in action before they can picture it.
 
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Gnateb

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I have a soft spot for Dark Souls 2 for some reason haha. If they did model-changing alts like with Hero, and Ashen One + Bearer of the Curse were there, Bearer of the Curse would be my main hands down. He just looks so cool
 
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SWSU

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Dec 22, 2020
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I've had this conversation before, and their stance is that generic characters are OK if they are cartoony, realistic characters are OK if they are well defined, but if they're both generic and realistic, they don't fit.

They'll probably just have to see it in action before they can picture it.
Pretty much. Plus most of those are Nintendo owned too.
 

SharkLord

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I think maaaybe they could have trouble coming up with a way to make a Dark Souls fighter stand out, but we know Sakurai has played Dark Souls and we know he understands a lot about how it plays, so I'm not convinced that would be the issue.
"It Can't Be Undone"

Is he referring to the impact Dark Souls had on gaming, or his severe psychological trauma? There's evidence that supports both.

EDIT: You Died jokes aside, I also love how he compares the Estus Flask sips to bento lunches.

EDIT AGAIN: Also this
1617835769453.png
 
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Gnateb

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  • :ultpokemontrainer: - Customizable self-insert, no name, no personality
  • :ultvillager: - Customizable self-insert, no name, no personality
  • :ultinkling: - Customizable self-insert, no name, mild personality
  • :ultsteve: - Customizable self-insert, name, no personality (Well, one could argue he does have a personality, but a large portion of it is derived from an absence of personality)
I really don't understand the "Must be a defined character" thing. Even then, if it's that much of an issue we can just use Solaire or Artorias, who are popular, defined characters, with the former even getting his own amiibo.
Yeah, the amiibo always seemed weird to me. Amiibos are expensive to design and produce, and they are rarely made for third party publishers (outside of Smash amiibo). All of a sudden an amiibo drops for a port of a third party game, only a few months before smash ultimate released. If Nintendo and Bandai Namco, the company which co develops Ultimate, were so willing to collaborate when it comes to Souls, you'd think at least a base game spirit for Solaire would happen, right? Nope, there's not even a PNG. I'm definitely not gonna take this omission as a hint anymore, but it seems like it would've been pretty easy to just slap a PNG in there, especially considering the timing of DSR on Switch.
The avatar characters are 99% the pick of choice, but I will stan Siegmeyer all the way until it happens.
Oh yeah. Even though he'd probably be relegated to stage cameo, he'd be the most glorious stage cameo :(
 

warubyun

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As quickly as the days go by, waiting for the next fighters with no clue of who they could be truly is very light torture. Part of me just wants to know right away whether I'll end up disappointed by the end of the DLC cycle.
 

SpectreJordan

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That inspired me to perform a challenge I made for myself: What characters would be good for a Rareware Fighters Pass? Here's my attempt:
1) Battletoads
2) Fulgore
3) Conker
4) Joanna Dark
5) Sabreman
6) Jet Force Gemini

Anybody else interested in the challenge?
I’d include Gruntulda over Sabreman & Horsetachio from Viva Pinata over Jef Force.

I actually wanted to say that Joanna Dark could be a surprise dark horse pick. Microsoft recently opened (not bought) a a new studio, with major talent from across the industry, to reboot Perfect Dark. So they’re definitely interested in promoting the series.

I could see Nintendo & Sakurai being interested in her because of the series’s N64 roots. There was an item from the game in Melee (renamed outside of Japan). I’ve also heard that Sakurai wanted to include Banjo & Joanna as trophies in Melee. We now got Banjo as a playable fighter, but no sign of any Joanna representation.

That shouldn't really matter anyway, I still believe that the one-per-company quota is an assumption that could crumble any minute. The more thought you put behind the mentality that Steve from Minecraft would have any bearing on Master Chief from Halo from a character / audience / profit perspective the less it makes sense that Nintendo would arbitrarily limit themselves in such a way.

That is to say, if the stars align for Chief then Steve won't stop him. There are plenty of reasons why Master Chief may not make it in the end, I'm certainly not all-in on it myself but I think it's a decent possibility. I'm just not convinced his absence would have anything to do with whether or not Steve qualifies as a "Microsoft rep" when Steve and Master Chief offer such different things from one another.

Like I dunno, regulating the mascot of the biggest game in the world and the face of modern FPS to "Microsoft reps" just rids them of all of their significance as individual characters. At this point I don't think Nintendo is just penning in companies, they just want worthwhile characters and Microsoft definitely has another one available for them if they so choose to take it.
The idea originated in FP1 with the idea that Nintendo was using the DLC to strengthen ties with other companies. I think that turned out to be true. But that’s clearly not the case for FP2, we haven’t seen a new company in a year & a half.
Y'know, whenever "repeat" third-parties are discussed, it feels like the only one we ever talk about is Master Chief. Nothing for Squeenix, like 2B or Lara Croft. It feels like the breaking of the "no third-party repeats" stigma is just for the sake of discussing Master Chief while staying within the generally agreed-upon standards of the speculative scene. Maybe we should talk about some Squeenix characters again.
I was disappointed that 2B wasn’t mentioned at all when there was a recent discussion about a pick for the Japanese audience at E3. I think 2B has way much more going for her than the likes of Reimu.

Nier: Automata is one of the most important non-Nintendo Japanese games of the last decade. The only other ones that I think can compare are Monster Hunter: World & Persona 5.

It’s a game that everyone expected to be niche. 1 million sales would’ve left everyone involved ecstatic. It’s gone on to sell 5.5 million copies as of now. That’s a lot for any game. But for this really weird action game by a creator that’s only made straight up bombs & by a studio that’s highest sales peak was 1 mil? That’s astounding. Nier: Automata saved Platinum Games.

This huge success has led to Nier potentially becoming one of Square’s pillar franchises alongside the likes of Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest & Kingdom Hearts. It just depends on how future entries in the series do (they’ll probably do well). Square is letting 2B in damn near anything that asks, she’s their current crossover queen. So if “muh budget” is a concern then I don’t think she’d cost that much.

It’s a uniquely Japanese game too, you never would’ve gotten anything like this from the West. It’s also a story that greatly utilizes the video game medium too, you couldn’t have told this story outside of gaming. I feel like these are things Nintendo & especially Sakurai would see as valuable.

Nier hasn’t appeared on a Nintendo console yet (which I don’t think is that important). But if that Switch Pro is real (& it probably is with Bloomberg reporting on it), then I could see Nier: Automata being one of its big titles.

I think she’s a lot likelier than people give her credit for. But maybe that’s a good thing so she can be another “Whoah we didn’t see that coming!” pick that keeps happening lmao
 
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DrifloonEmpire

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I'm not saying that they're the only ones that matter, but Pikachu, Charizard, the Pokémon Trainer, and Mewtwo are all particularly important Pokémon characters, and I'd say they're all must haves as a result. Comparing them to Pidgey and Muk is pretty disingenuous.

Eevee makes a bit more sense, but while it is a bit more important than the typical Pokémon, I wouldn't quite consider it a pilliar. It's very close since it does get more attention on average, but it's not quite there.

I think a better way of phrasing what I said though, was that it makes sense that they went back to Kanto since that's where the most important Pokémon to have come from. I would still like to see them go back for other Pokémon as well, but the ones they did bother to go back for make a ton of sense.
I must've misread your reply then. By "all of them being pillars" I thought you were referring to the entirety of Gen 1 rather than just the ones already in Smash. So I apologize for being brash! I do agree, the ones we already have are super important, I just think Gen 1 is already very well represented and that most of its' icons are already here (though I'd personally swap out Jigglypuff for Meowth), and that focus for Pokemon should go to generations with little to no representation instead.
 

Gnateb

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"It Can't Be Undone"

Is he referring to the impact Dark Souls had on gaming, or his severe psychological trauma? There's evidence that supports both.

EDIT: You Died jokes aside, I also love how he compares the Estus Flask sips to bento lunches.

EDIT AGAIN: Also this
View attachment 310382
The Famitsu columns Sakurai did on Dark Souls were really cool. He's even a fellow Dark Souls 2 apparently lol
 

Louie G.

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Nier: Automata is one of the most important non-Nintendo Japanese games of the last decade. The only other ones that I think can compare are Monster Hunter: World & Persona 5.
And Dark Souls!

But your points in favor of 2B are definitely solid, I remember that she was one of the first characters I thought about once Joker was revealed and I began to think about which modern games had cemented themselves as instant classics over the preceding 5 years or so. Joker, 2B and Sans were some of the only really notable characters I could think of from that pool.
 
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Gazorpazorpfield

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"It Can't Be Undone"

Is he referring to the impact Dark Souls had on gaming, or his severe psychological trauma? There's evidence that supports both.

EDIT: You Died jokes aside, I also love how he compares the Estus Flask sips to bento lunches.

EDIT AGAIN: Also this
View attachment 310382
Sakurai gave us this piping hot take near the bottom:

"Even so, a fun game is a fun game! I thought the second one was better. Well, it might just have been my mood, though."

Sakurai has committed the ultimate taboo in the Souls community. May Gwyn have mercy on his soul.
 

Technomage

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I’d include Gruntulda over Sabreman & Horsetachio from Viva Pinata over Jef Force.
Yeah, it turned out that I didn't know Rare as much as I thought, and that JFG was just a filler pic due to running out of ideas. Also didn't help that I never thought to include a second char from an already-repped series.

Also, who's Horsetachio and what's Viva Pinata's significance to Rare? I don't know much about the game to make much of a judgement on that.

Also, fun fact: At one point I considered adding the guy from Grabbed by the Ghoulies, but that game sucked too much to be a realistic (well, compared to the other Rare chars, at least) prediction. XD
 
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Gnateb

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Sakurai gave us this piping hot take near the bottom:

"Even so, a fun game is a fun game! I thought the second one was better. Well, it might just have been my mood, though."

Sakurai has committed the ultimate taboo in the Souls community. May Gwyn have mercy on his soul.
I'll die on the hill that is Dark Souls 2. I know it's the incorrect opinion... but it's probably my favorite of the trilogy
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Dark Souls 2 is hated because it’s different. Not because it’s bad. There are Hardcore Dark Souls fans that hates Sekiro and Bloodborne too but I guess it’s not as present because they’re not in the Dark Souls canon.
 
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MarioRaccoon

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If you think about it, From Software is one of the few “important” japanese developers that don’t have a great relationship with Nintendo, I mean, we still didn’t get any DS2 or 3 Switch ports. Maybe they are interesting in developing a relationship with them with the privilege of letting their fighter to be in Smash.
 
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If you think about it, From Software is one of the few “important” japanese developers that don’t have a great relationship with Nintendo, I mean, we still didn’t get any DS2 or 3 Switch ports. Maybe they are interesting in developing a relationship with them with the privilege of letting their fighter to be in Smash.
They do tend to go for the systems that are graphical powerhouses. I don't think they even did Dark Souls Remastered themselves, so there might be no relationship with Nintendo at all.
 

Gnateb

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If you think about it, From Software is one of the few “important” japanese developers that don’t have a great relationship with Nintendo, I mean, we still didn’t get any DS2 or 3 Switch ports. Maybe they are interesting in developing a relationship with them with the privilege of letting their fighter to be in Smash.
DS2 and 3 might be too graphically intensive for the Switch. With how eager Bandai Namco was to port Dark Souls Remastered to the Switch, I wouldn't be surprised if 2 and 3 make to the eventual "switch pro" pretty soon after it comes out.
 
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DS2 and 3 might be too graphically intensive for the Switch. With how eager Bandai Namco was to port Dark Souls Remastered to the Switch, I wouldn't be surprised if 2 and 3 make to the eventual "switch pro" pretty soon after it comes out.
Dark Souls 2 should be fine if it was a straight port. It was a PS3 game. There's no way 3 is happening, though.
 

Gnateb

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Dark Souls 2 should be fine if it was a straight port. It was a PS3 game. There's no way 3 is happening, though.
You're right about DS2, but I'm not sure how the Switch could handle Scholar of the First Sin's graphics improvements consistently. Maybe if they added the dlc minus that or something. I would love for DS2 to be on a portable system, that would be awesome
 
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