Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

Plus, the "Sakurai is getting burnt out" argument doesn't hold all that much water when you consider the possibility that Nintendo could just put someone else in charge of FP3 or any further DLC (even if it might not lead to the best results).

have they done that with other fighting games/games with dlc in general before? im legit curious

 

[7NATOR]

have they done that with other fighting games/games with dlc in general before? im legit curious

I believe Murray took over Head position of Tekken development during the middle of Tekken 7's Lifecycle (Previously it was Harada)

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don’t think Vergeben’s list means anything:

1. iirc it was only for CP5 which ended up being Byleth, the source likely only answering for CP5 and so a “disconfirmed” character could appear later on.

2. How do you know what something isn’t without knowing what it is? His source could’ve been told who it isn’t, but why not just be told who it is? The person with the info may just be messing with you if they’re making you play a guessing game, what’s the point of being a leaker if you’re gonna play mind games and not actually leak or imply anything?

3. His list had almost (if not all of) every big company and some smaller ones; if it did apply to after CP5 it may already be broken by now. Not sure on if it would be broken, but still he was practically disconfirming everyone under the sun and just removed a few in his second version of the list.

 

[Karen6969]

I get why there's doubts about there being more characters after FP2, but we where discussing a potential FP3 not all too long ago. I kind of have a hard time believing that they'd simply quit after such financial succeses. I mean, yeah, Sakurai is probably oversaturated from all this work on Smash Bros., but is Nintendo feeling the same over the amounts of money coming in? I could easily see them continue down this road for a little while.

I doubt the existence of a FP3, but I think that standalone bonus fighters that are more simple in nature could definitely happen, and would be something I’d love to see. It would be easy money for Nintendo, since I (and I’m sure many others) will continue to give them money for as long as they keep putting out content for this game.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly the whole thing sounds like a Min Min-level stretch. It's just a list of names saying "Well, it's not this!" for CP5. I doubt Verge knew about anything regarding FP2 back then, and either way this feels like it's going to arbitrarily limit topics by going "Well actually Verge's CP5 list deconfirmed them so they're still deconfirmed now."

Anyways, another new theory: Yeetus Leakus Theory. Basically, any time a leak gains traction, the next fighter wrecks the leak. Crei-Mos was proven fake by Pyra and Mythra, and the Concert Leak was flattened after Monster Hunter got Mii'd. Chances are we're actually getting an ArcSys character or whoever that Verge's list supposedly deconfirmed (Even though that was over a year ago and wasn't even for FP2, but now that we're trying to bring it back...)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I always thought that if we got a character from a visual novel in smash, Phoenix Wright would be the most suitable, but I would have no problem seeing Ayumi Tachibana, it´s nice that a forgotten IP has some recognition, and if Sakurai was going to do it in Melee.. would be fun to have a character planned for 20 years.

Honestly it's wild how Ayumi gets this favourable reputation on this site solely for having been considered, I've only ever seen a grand total of 1 person who's actually played the games she's from. I can't comment on how I'd feel about her because I'm not that 1 person so I'm gonna have to wait until her remakes release and I play them for myself.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

have they done that with other fighting games/games with dlc in general before? im legit curious

iirc, Skullgirls. Though Skullgirls is anything but a typical case.

 

[chocolatejr9]

iirc, Skullgirls. Though Skullgirls is anything but a typical case.

Man, that one's gonna be a HECK of a tale once it's all said and done...

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly it's wild how Ayumi gets this favourable reputation on this site solely for having been considered, I've only ever seen a grand total of 1 person who's actually played the games she's from. I can't comment on how I'd feel about her because I'm not that 1 person so I'm gonna have to wait until her remakes release and I play them for myself.

I do think the remakes helped a lot with that. Without them bringing her back into the spotlight, she'd just be another footnote in the list that everyone overlooks. Yeah, the Smash legacy is definitely the vehicle she used to get where she is, but the remakes were the fuel she needed to drive it.

(...Is she even old enough to drive? I know she's an adult in the first game, but the high school Ayumi's the most well-known one and I don't know if she could get a license at that point...)

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Personally the 3 characters I would look at regarding Assists are Shovel Knight, Shadow, and Waluigi (No bias), Especially the latter two if you want to take into account Papagenos "100% real evidence from back in July of 2020" that implies either or both of them. I assume Papagenos was telling the truth, and he probably got his information from the same well that Vergeben and/or his source got the info for the lists

Just a thought on the PapaGenos part of this: I recall that he said other characters were helped by the thing he heard, but he threw them out because they didn't make as much sense (correct me if I'm wrong). He's really good at compiling information, but he's always been shaky when it comes to interpreting that information. In this instance, he was presenting his interpretation without giving any of the information he used to make it, and that prevents anyone from making an informed judgment call on its worth. It could have been some super secret insider knowledge. It could have just been some people talking about a cease-and-desist on a mod that got shut down at the time. We simply don't know, and PapaGenos' track record isn't super promising.

The whole statement iirc was only made to people in his Discord, anyway. He wasn't trying to go public with it, and was attempting to keep the people closest to him in the know without saying anything that could cause trouble if it got out. It did get out, so not saying too much was clearly the right call, even if I think it would have been smarter not to say anything.

tl;dr: I don't think we can take anything away from PapaGenos' statement. It was the equivalent of somebody avoiding spoilers about a movie you haven't seen but still telling you what opinion you should have about it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I do think the remakes helped a lot with that. Without them bringing her back into the spotlight, she'd just be another footnote in the list that everyone overlooks. Yeah, the Smash legacy is definitely the vehicle she used to get where she is, but the remakes were the fuel she needed to drive it.

(...Is she even old enough to drive? I know she's an adult in the first game, but the high school Ayumi's the most well-known one and I don't know if she could get a license at that point...)

I doubt Smash would take legalities into account...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

3. His list had almost (if not all of) every big company and some smaller ones; if it did apply to after CP5 it may already be broken by now. Not sure on if it would be broken, but still he was practically disconfirming everyone under the sun and just removed a few in his second version of the list.

It already involves two lists separated by accuracy. I really can't take it seriously considering that.

Man, that one's gonna be a HECK of a tale once it's all said and done...

Considering that there's already a footnote where the devs (or company or whatever) allowed an indie studio to make a My Little Pony inspired game (with designs made by My Little Pony's character designer iirc) using their engine, that also turned out to be really good, the story is already super bonkers.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Considering that there's already a footnote where the devs (or company or whatever) allowed an indie studio to make a My Little Pony inspired game (with designs made by My Little Pony's character designer iirc) using their engine, that also turned out to be really good, the story is already super bonkers.

PFFFFF WHAT

I gotta see this for myself

 

[Pillow]

If we actually are getting a standalone character separate from FP2, I would think bigger not smaller. There would be no reason for Nintendo to not simply bundle one of their characters with a fighter’s pass. I’d guess Sora or Chief or some other huge character whose home company might want special conditions for them appearing as smash dlc.

This is both assuming it’s a character at all, and the leak actually means anything.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

PFFFFF WHAT

I gotta see this for myself

The game's called Them's Fightin' Herds, if that makes things easier.

 

[chocolatejr9]

PFFFFF WHAT

I gotta see this for myself

Look up Them's Fighten' Herds. It started out as an MLP fangame made by a bunch of Bronies, but after it got cease and desisted, they reworked it into something original.

 

[Pillow]

PFFFFF WHAT

I gotta see this for myself

It’s actually unironically a pretty good fighting game. But the visual design for the characters is definitely catering to very specific tastes...

 

[SharkLord]

If we actually are getting a standalone character separate from FP2, I would think bigger not smaller. There would be no reason for Nintendo to not simply bundle one of their characters with a fighter’s pass. I’d guess Sora or Chief or some other huge character whose home company might want special conditions for them appearing as smash dlc.

This is both assuming it’s a character at all, and the leak actually means anything.

I think it all depends on the circumstance. If this was always planned as a great big sendoff, the sky's the limit. If it was a last-minute addition because they had some extra time, it's probably a first-party, or maybe an indie that's easy to nab the rights to. There's also the matter of whether or not it's a pack or just a character. In the latter case, it would pretty much need to be from a series that already has fighters, since all the new series so far have gotten a bunch of content beyond just the fighter. In that case, there'd be a lot more options for first-parties than third-parties.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

also uh

if anyone wants to make an Apex Legends Characters In Smash support thread I'll be happy to check it out. have it on my switch, havent gotten around to playing tho and would like to learn more

 

[Guynamednelson]

Plus, the "Sakurai is getting burnt out" argument doesn't hold all that much water when you consider the possibility that Nintendo could just put someone else in charge of FP3 or any further DLC (even if it might not lead to the best results).

Japan's work culture means that regardless of Sakurai's condition, he has to keep working. No exceptions, unless he's dead.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

PFFFFF WHAT

I gotta see this for myself

It's already been said, but the game is called Them's Fightin' Herds, and it's developed by Mane 6. I think my favorite thing about it is the dynamic music system: Each character has their own musical motifs (Ex: Tianhuo's is Chinese instruments) and they'll weave their way into the song when a character wins a round or scores a big combo.

 

[RGFS]

I don't imagine that Apex would get the Bonus Fighter treatment. It seems if there were a Bonus fighter, it be one that doesn't come with the Challenger Pack contents, and considering that Apex is not only a new franchise, but also a 3rd party, I can't really see it

I see Apex as a Future Smash thing to be honest. although it could still be in FP2, but considering Apex just released in 2019, EA being a Western Company, and all the usual aspects that go into Visualizing the aspects of characters in Smash, unless the Smash team already had a templated moveset for FPS Character and EA/Respawn were very Lax about how their characters were represented, the timeline doesn't add up for them being in FP2 as a full character at least

As for Apex itself, I only played a little bit of it myself, but It plays like Titanfall if you ever played that in terms of mobility and such. It doesn't have the mechs (yet at least) but each character in Apex do have their special abilities

You got people that can heal people, Use a Harpoon thing to zip across buildings and such, create mirage clones, and etc. In Particular, Wraith, the character that seems the most likely to be the character if Apex got a character, can Create Portals to travel in Space and phase herself, which actually thinking about it does seem like that Projectile Glitch with the forward momentum

Apex Legends? The free to play battle royale? Why wouldn't they go with Fortnite or maybe even PUBG? I personally would be fine with any of these since I wouldn't care either way but it doesn't really make much sense for a Smash Fighter at all. I'm also not banking on Nintendo choosing a free-to-play character as DLC just yet, the first one would probably be from Fortnite or League of Legends.

EA's biggest actual game series seems to be The Sims. It's had multiple Nintendo games and has sold around 200 million copies worldwide. It's big enough that Nintendo decided to add SimCity's Dr. Wright as an Assist Trophy all the way back in Brawl. He's kind of a reverse Geno in that he's from a third-party series but he's a first-party character owned by Nintendo. I could see The Sims being a pretty unique character from anyone on the roster like how Villager and Isabelle stand out. They could do what they did with Bowser Jr or Hero and pick either 4 or 8 of the most iconic Sims from the series.

Also, the Verge-Decon theory makes basically no sense to me at first glance. Is there more to it than just a weird assumption? My bet is Crash Bandicoot spins this theory straight outta the atmosphere.

Japan's work culture means that regardless of Sakurai's condition, he has to keep working. No exceptions, unless he's dead.

Well, that thought makes me kinda sad. He said he was fine with working on Smash as long as people wanted it, but if he does want to stop, nothing stops him from doing what he did with the Kirby series and letting other people do it. I think he's actually more cool with working on Smash than many think though. He just needs to take better care of himself.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why wouldn't they go with Fortnite or maybe even PUBG?

To help build a relationship with EA, perhaps? I know they pretty much slacked off with supporting with Nintendo after their Wii U ports didn't do so well, but...it's the Wii U.

 

[Garteam]

have they done that with other fighting games/games with dlc in general before? im legit curious

Not a perfect example, but Kosuke Yabuki stepped back from being Mario Kart 8's director to instead take a producer role for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, presumably because his attention was divided by that and ARMS during the development period.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm also not banking on Nintendo choosing a free-to-play character as DLC just yet, the first one would probably be from Fortnite or League of Legends.

I just now realized the irony of a free-to-play character getting added as DLC.

 

[7NATOR]

I don’t think Vergeben’s list means anything:

1. iirc it was only for CP5 which ended up being Byleth, the source likely only answering for CP5 and so a “disconfirmed” character could appear later on.

2. How do you know what something isn’t without knowing what it is? His source could’ve been told who it isn’t, but why not just be told who it is? The person with the info may just be messing with you if they’re making you play a guessing game, what’s the point of being a leaker if you’re gonna play mind games and not actually leak or imply anything?

3. His list had almost (if not all of) every big company and some smaller ones; if it did apply to after CP5 it may already be broken by now. Not sure on if it would be broken, but still he was practically disconfirming everyone under the sun and just removed a few in his second version of the list.

1. I understand that Vergeben has said it was focused only on CP5, and Also Nekoo , who knew the source also, said it was for CP5 only

With that being said, The thing to note was that their intention was for CP5 only, but the thing about this theory is it gives out reasons for why Unintentionally, they might have also Spilled the beans on FP2

Another example involves Vergeben as well. Vergeben reported on both Minecraft and Sephiroth back during the base game, and I believe even after Banjo got in, he thought of the Minecraft info as some type of Leakbait, so Intentionally he wasn't thinking that it would take so long for Minecraft content to show up. Unintentionally he seemed to have leaked talks of Minecraft in smash that lasted 5 years, and that's the whole thing about this theory

2. That's one of the main questions I asked myself regarding this theory. The Source obviously did not know that Byleth was CP5. If the Source did, then we wouldn't have had stuff like Capcom having 6 characters deconfirmed but not deconfirmed as a whole company like Bandai Namco was, The idea of "Another Microsoft character" that was on the OG List wouldn't have been taken off the accurate list, and we wouldn't have the KOS-MOS Situation that the source themselves said they were unsure on intially

This, from my Analysis, gives more credence that Info about BOTH FP1 and FP2 mixed together in regards to this list. I don't think he got his info from the developmental side of Smash Ultimate since if he did, he probably would have seen Byleth in a more finished production state, meaning it be easy to decipher that they were CP5. That's why I say they probably got their info from the Legal side of things, or knowing of Negotations, and since FP2 Negotations were going on while FP1 was being developed, it's easy to see how Info about both passes get mixed up

3. In regards to the Accurate version of the list, the fact that it still hasn't been broken does give more credence to this theory. Not only were all 4 of the Current FP2 fighters not on the list, but it was very risky in listing alot of characters that were at the time Frontrunners. The fact that we've slowly been killing off popular characters on this list like Ryu Hayabusa, Doomguy, all of Capcom, etc does give more credence to the idea of this list having a Effect on Pass 2

And the fact that with the OG List, that the things that were on the OG List, but were not on the accurate version of the list, were also things that got content in FP2 in some from is important to note

Honestly the whole thing sounds like a Min Min-level stretch. It's just a list of names saying "Well, it's not this!" for CP5. I doubt Verge knew about anything regarding FP2 back then, and either way this feels like it's going to arbitrarily limit topics by going "Well actually Verge's CP5 list deconfirmed them so they're still deconfirmed now."

Anyways, another new theory: Yeetus Leakus Theory. Basically, any time a leak gains traction, the next fighter wrecks the leak. Crei-Mos was proven fake by Pyra and Mythra, and the Concert Leak was flattened after Monster Hunter got Mii'd. Chances are we're actually getting an ArcSys character or whoever that Verge's list supposedly deconfirmed (Even though that was over a year ago and wasn't even for FP2, but now that we're trying to bring it back...)

Verge did not know about the situation regarding Minecraft when he intially reported on it. Same thing with Sephiroth as well, I don't think he knew that Sephiroth would have gotten in later and that it was only between 1 Square character that was getting in

About it limiting topics, yeah that is a shame to be honest, but I don't think that should matter if we are trying to Speculate who's gonna be in the game though. Supporting options in Smash is different from Speculating about who's gonna be in Smash

I actually think this could be compared to the Tales of Chun leak. That post mentioned Sephiroth being in consideration, along with talking about how Minecraft Steve was there. The thing is that the leak Never said Sephiroth was gonna be in, as by the wording, he's saying that Dragon Quest got the SE Spot, as in the only one

This only got traction after Sephiroth got in years later and people Inferred that he might have heard Talks about Sephiroth back then too

It's a very Similar situation with this Vergeben Deconfirm list, only It's more Credible because it's gotten much more things right. I understand that the Vergeben Deconfirm theory deconfirms a Major amount of characters, compared to the Tales of Chun Leak that did the opposite, but I don't think the theory should be dismissed so easily

 

[Guynamednelson]

I just now realized the irony of a free-to-play character getting added as DLC.

To be fair, DLC purchases are how free-to-play games sustain themselves. So it's not THAT ironic.

 

[RileyXY1]

Also, the Verge-Decon theory makes basically no sense to me at first glance. Is there more to it than just a weird assumption? My bet is Crash Bandicoot spins this theory straight outta the atmosphere.

Well, there was the fact that the updated list does not directly deconfirm any of the FP2 characters that have been confirmed so far, and FP2 negotiation happened concurrently with Byleth's development period.

 

[Technomage]

He just needs to take better care of himself.

Yeah, he's just so much of a workaholic that he caused himself a shoulder injury back in Smash 4's development, and didn't get that corrected immediately (though I don't know whether or not he got that healed by now). I may appreciate all the work and passion he's put into Smash, but part of me thinks he should take a break every now and then.

 

[RGFS]

To help build a relationship with EA, perhaps? I know they pretty much slacked off with supporting with Nintendo after their Wii U ports didn't do so well, but...it's the Wii U.

Then they would do The Sims. It's The fricking Sims man! That series is insanely huge and definitely EA's most valuable IP aside from something like Fifa. They've ported Sims 1-3 to multiple Nintendo consoles and handhelds. A bunch of spin-offs have been made too like MySims or Urbz. From the Gamecube and Gameboy to the Wii and 3DS, there were at least one or two Sims games on it. (I didn't even mention games like SimCity on older consoles.)

The only main Sims game not on any Nintendo console is The Sims 4. That game could run on the crappiest, oldest computers and got a PS4 and XBO ports a few years back. EA said they were porting a few games to Switch right?? Well, the last one could be The Sims 4 for Nintendo Switch and it ties to a Smash Bros reveal.

I don't know if seeing an EA character in Smash is likely as they've only recently gotten around to being nice with Nintendo again but a theoretical FP3 could definitely make them a safer bet again.

 

[SharkLord]

1. I understand that Vergeben has said it was focused only on CP5, and Also Nekoo , who knew the source also, said it was for CP5 only

With that being said, The thing to note was that their intention was for CP5 only, but the thing about this theory is it gives out reasons for why Unintentionally, they might have also Spilled the beans on FP2

Another example involves Vergeben as well. Vergeben reported on both Minecraft and Sephiroth back during the base game, and I believe even after Banjo got in, he thought of the Minecraft info as some type of Leakbait, so Intentionally he wasn't thinking that it would take so long for Minecraft content to show up. Unintentionally he seemed to have leaked talks of Minecraft in smash that lasted 5 years, and that's the whole thing about this theory

2. That's one of the main questions I asked myself regarding this theory. The Source obviously did not know that Byleth was CP5. If the Source did, then we wouldn't have had stuff like Capcom having 6 characters deconfirmed but not deconfirmed as a whole company like Bandai Namco was, The idea of "Another Microsoft character" that was on the OG List wouldn't have been taken off the accurate list, and we wouldn't have the KOS-MOS Situation that the source themselves said they were unsure on intially

This, from my Analysis, gives more credence that Info about BOTH FP1 and FP2 mixed together in regards to this list. I don't think he got his info from the developmental side of Smash Ultimate since if he did, he probably would have seen Byleth in a more finished production state, meaning it be easy to decipher that they were CP5. That's why I say they probably got their info from the Legal side of things, or knowing of Negotations, and since FP2 Negotations were going on while FP1 was being developed, it's easy to see how Info about both passes get mixed up

3. In regards to the Accurate version of the list, the fact that it still hasn't been broken does give more credence to this theory. Not only were all 4 of the Current FP2 fighters not on the list, but it was very risky in listing alot of characters that were at the time Frontrunners. The fact that we've slowly been killing off popular characters on this list like Ryu Hayabusa, Doomguy, all of Capcom, etc does give more credence to the idea of this list having a Effect on Pass 2

And the fact that with the OG List, that the things that were on the OG List, but were not on the accurate version of the list, were also things that got content in FP2 in some from is important to note




Verge did not know about the situation regarding Minecraft when he intially reported on it. Same thing with Sephiroth as well, I don't think he knew that Sephiroth would have gotten in later and that it was only between 1 Square character that was getting in

About it limiting topics, yeah that is a shame to be honest, but I don't think that should matter if we are trying to Speculate who's gonna be in the game though. Supporting options in Smash is different from Speculating about who's gonna be in Smash

I actually think this could be compared to the Tales of Chun leak. That post mentioned Sephiroth being in consideration, along with talking about how Minecraft Steve was there. The thing is that the leak Never said Sephiroth was gonna be in, as by the wording, he's saying that Dragon Quest got the SE Spot, as in the only one

View attachment 310065

This only got traction after Sephiroth got in years later and people Inferred that he might have heard Talks about Sephiroth back then too

It's a very Similar situation with this Vergeben Deconfirm list, only It's more Credible because it's gotten much more things right. I understand that the Vergeben Deconfirm theory deconfirms a Major amount of characters, compared to the Tales of Chun Leak that did the opposite, but I don't think the theory should be dismissed so easily

Vergeben heard about CP5. Logically, it would be for CP5 specifically, and not FP2. Either way, didn't the guy not actually know who CP5 was? If so, that would just make things even shakier; If he didn't know who it was, how can he say who it wasn't? Why would he play coy with the info? Or his sources, for that matter? It just doesn't make sense.

The negotiation rumor - Because I refuse to call it Tales of Chun-Li - Was different. That wasn't trying to determine what would or wouldn't happen, it was just characters who were considered and dropped, and may or may not get brought back based on trends. This is trying to definitively say that certain character won't be added. It should also be noted that he did explicitly state he heard about Sephiroth deals, it's just that those deals were phased out in favor of Hero and may have been brought back for FP2.

The main crux of your theory is based on trying to stretch a list's focus beyond what it was actually about. That on it's own is a shaky foundation, and I don't see any reason to look into the theory any further.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Then they would do The Sims. It's The fricking Sims man! That series is insanely huge and definitely EA's most valuable IP aside from something like Fifa. They've ported Sims 1-3 to multiple Nintendo consoles and handhelds. A bunch of spin-offs have been made too like MySims or Urbz. From the Gamecube and Gameboy to the Wii and 3DS, there were at least one or two Sims games on it.

The only main Sim game not on any Nintendo console is The Sims 4. That game could run on the crappiest, oldest computers and got a PS4 and XBO ports a few years back. EA said they were porting a few games to Switch right?? Well, the last one could be The Sims 4 for Nintendo Switch and it ties to a Smash Bros reveal.

I don't know if seeing an EA character in Smash is likely as they've only recently gotten around to being nice with Nintendo again but a theoretical FP3 could definitely make them a safer bet again.

Or maybe they're getting friendly again BECAUSE of Smash!

Yes, that's a tinfoil hat I'm wearing. How'd you know?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It is pretty telling that Square’s characters have only come in DLC. It’s gotta be easier on Square’s part to gain royalties from individual sales of the character rather than the lump sum that would likely come with the base game so I’m curious, going forward, how easy it will be to get the Square Characters back and whether or not we’ll get any new ones base game eve.

This isn’t even a Smash exclusive thing with Square. 2B was the 1st DLC in Soul Calibur and Noctis was DLC in Tekken. It’s gotta be in Square’s best interest to license as DLC than otherwise.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No offence but I really don't see what there is to gain about discussing theories made by a guy who's theories include "Grinch is real but outdated", being less than 6 months old and "Shadow will be added in Smash to promote his Bayonetta 3 appearance I'm theorizing"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It is pretty telling that Square’s characters have only come in DLC. It’s gotta be easier ok Square’s part to gain royalties from individual sales of the character rather than the lump sum that would likely come with the base game so I’m curious, going forward, how easy it will be to get the Square Characters back and whether or not we’ll get any new ones base game eve.

This isn’t even a Smash exclusive thing with Square. 2B was the 1st DLC in Soul Calibur and Noctis was DLC in Tekken. It’s gotta be in Square’s best interest to license as DLC than otherwise.

Eh, I dunno.

For one thing, Cloud was a base game character for this game. There's also that Hero's reason for being DLC instead of base game was cited to be royalties from the composer specifically, which doesn't seem to be a SquareEnix issue.

As for the other games, they're not crossover titles, so crossover characters aren't really on the docket for the base roster, with Soul Calibur being the only one that really does guest characters in base, and I'm not really sure the pick of Geralt instead of 2B for base means anything on its own.

 

[7NATOR]

Vergeben heard about CP5. Logically, it would be for CP5 specifically, and not FP2. Either way, didn't the guy not actually know who CP5 was? If so, that would just make things even shakier; If he didn't know who it was, how can he say who it wasn't? Why would he play coy with the info? Or his sources, for that matter? It just doesn't make sense.

The negotiation rumor - Because I refuse to call it Tales of Chun-Li - Was different. That wasn't trying to determine what would or wouldn't happen, it was just characters who were considered and dropped, and may or may not get brought back based on trends. This is trying to definitively say that certain character won't be added. It should also be noted that he did explicitly state he heard about Sephiroth deals, it's just that those deals were phased out in favor of Hero and may have been brought back for FP2.

The main crux of your theory is based on trying to stretch a list's focus beyond what it was actually about. That on it's own is a shaky foundation, and I don't see any reason to look into the theory any further.

-As noted in one of my posts, One of the questions I had was that how was the Source able to Deconfirm characters, if he didn't know who exactly CP5 was

The Part 3 of my theory gives a what I think is a Logical conclusion, in that he was privy to what negotiations were either being finalized or going on at the time, and since FP2 Negotiations were going at the same time of fP1 Development, than yes that Logically opens the door for this list to have an impact on FP2

-The leak did hear about the Sephiroth deals, but he just Assumed that was the end of it. even from people that have Inside info, they don't know Exactly how that info would surface. While he intentionally might have just brushed off Sephiroth because he heard more for Dragon Quest, Unintentionally he also heard the potential dealings of Sephiroth in FP2, and that's what people just rolled with when Sephiroth got confirmed, with their speculation that this info was going towards that

Vergeben Might have intentionally only meant for this list to be for CP5 only, but unintentionally might have spread info that applies to FP2

Keep in mind that Vergeben also said that Steve was Leakbait back then, so it's not like What Vergeben hears all the time is the actual result

Soooo what about the Minecraft content ? - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (gamespot.com)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Eh, I dunno.

For one thing, Cloud was a base game character for this game. There's also that Hero's reason for being DLC instead of base game was cited to be royalties from the composer specifically, which doesn't seem to be a SquareEnix issue.

As for the other games, they're not crossover titles, so crossover characters aren't really on the docket for the base roster, with Soul Calibur being the only one that really does guest characters in base, and I'm not really sure the pick of Geralt instead of 2B for base means anything on its own.

people DO theorize Cloud was base with the stipulation that Sephiroth be DLC later, but there's no real evidence behind that, just guesswork

-As noted in one of my posts, One of the questions I had was that how was the Source able to Deconfirm characters, if he didn't know who exactly CP5 was

The Part 3 of my theory gives a what I think is a Logical conclusion, in that he was privy to what negotiations were either being finalized or going on at the time, and since FP2 Negotiations were going at the same time of fP1 Development, than yes that Logically opens the door for this list to have an impact on FP2

-The leak did hear about the Sephiroth deals, but he just Assumed that was the end of it. even from people that have Inside info, they don't know Exactly how that info would surface. While he intentionally might have just brushed off Sephiroth because he heard more for Dragon Quest, Unintentionally he also heard the potential dealings of Sephiroth in FP2, and that's what people just rolled with when Sephiroth got confirmed, with their speculation that this info was going towards that

Vergeben Might have intentionally only meant for this list to be for CP5 only, but unintentionally might have spread info that applies to FP2

Keep in mind that Vergeben also said that Steve was Leakbait back then, so it's not like What Vergeben hears all the time is the actual result

Soooo what about the Minecraft content ? - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (gamespot.com)

oh also that reminds me - did he ever look into the League of Legends rumor as promised?

 

[chocolatejr9]

It is pretty telling that Square’s characters have only come in DLC. It’s gotta be easier on Square’s part to gain royalties from individual sales of the character rather than the lump sum that would likely come with the base game so I’m curious, going forward, how easy it will be to get the Square Characters back and whether or not we’ll get any new ones base game eve.

This isn’t even a Smash exclusive thing with Square. 2B was the 1st DLC in Soul Calibur and Noctis was DLC in Tekken. It’s gotta be in Square’s best interest to license as DLC than otherwise.

I honestly don't even know how Square structures their stuff. If we want any base game characters in the future, we may have to wait and see if things change over there...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Eh, I dunno.

For one thing, Cloud was a base game character for this game. There's also that Hero's reason for being DLC instead of base game was cited to be royalties from the composer specifically, which doesn't seem to be a SquareEnix issue.

As for the other games, they're not crossover titles, so crossover characters aren't really on the docket for the base roster, with Soul Calibur being the only one that really does guest characters in base, and I'm not really sure the pick of Geralt instead of 2B for base means anything on its own.

Apparently Cloud barely made it in base game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

people DO theorize Cloud was base with the stipulation that Sephiroth be DLC later, but there's no real evidence behind that, just guesswork

I have a hard time believing that since Sephiroth only made the cut in the second round of DLC.