Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Koopaul]

Oh yeah. Slime would definitley be my next most wanted third-party character. However I think we got enough third-party dudes, let's add some more stuff from Nintendo.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I want to make Demille and Doshin support threads but I'm to lazy. Also, what's up with me wanting obscure Japan only characters. Donbe and Hikari, Goku, Lip, Captain Rainbow, Demille, and Doshin. I'm weird.

Doshin isn't Japan only though:

European release.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Doshin isn't Japan only though:

European release.

True. Should clarify to not released in America.

 

[Geno Boost]

i made this, i did put possible DLC characters as much as i can (i know the roster wont end up like this)

Spoiler

Mario seires: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Daisy, Petey piranha, Prof. e. gadd, Wart, Captain toad, Fawful, Paper mario
Yoshi seires: , Stork
Wario seires: , 9-Volt, Mona, Captain syrup
Donkey kong seires: , , King k. rool, Donkey kong jr., Dixie kong, Stanley
Game & watch seires:
Punch-out seires: , King hippo
Legend of zelda seires: , , , , , , Ganon, Impa, Tetra, Vaati
Kid icarus seires: , ,
Light gun seires:
Metroid seires: , , Sylux
Fire emblem seires: , , , , , Black knight
Kirby seires: , , , Gooey, Daroach, Adeleine, Bandana/Waddle dee
Star fox seires: , , , Krystal, Slippy
Gyromite seires:
Pokemon seires: , , , , , , , , , , Grovyle (PMD), Sceptile
Animal crossing seires: , Mr. resetti
Pikmin seires: ,
F-zero seires: , Black shadow, Blood falcon
Mother seires: , , Ninten
Wii fit seires:
Xenonblade seires:
Other nintendo seires: Ray MK III, Hero (fossil fighter), Jill, Chibi-robo, Tempo, Mallo, Isaac, Barbara, Kururin, Captain rainbow, Zael
Rythem heaven seires: Marshal, Karate joe
Advance wars seires: Andy, Sami
Ice climbers seires:
Other retro seires: Mach rider, Ayumi, Mike jones, Ballon fighter, Exitebiker, Tamagon, Star man, , Bubbles, Muddy mole, Lip
Game freak/SEGA seires: Pulseman
Nintendo power/Nester funky bowling seires: Nester
NAMCO seires: , Heihachi, Dig dug
CAPCOM seires: , , Sir arthur
SEGA seires: , Akira, Alex kidd
Konami seires: , Bomberman, Simon belmont, Goemon
Ubisoft seires: Rayman
Square enix seires: Black mage, Slime
Rareware seires: Banjo-kazooie, Rash, Conker
Other 3rd party seires: Crash bandicoot, Spyro, Earth worm jim
Mii seires: , ,
Nintendo/Square enix seires: Mallow, Geno

Assist trophies and pokeball and stage hazards are not included because they are not possible to be DLC in smash 4 and they are deconfirmed until smash 5 maybe save them.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Assist trophies and stage hazards are not included because they are not possible to be DLC in smash 4 and they are deconfirmed until smash 5 maybe save them.

I'd like to see the official source where someone from Nintendo actually said this

 

[Geno Boost]

I'd like to see the official source where someone from Nintendo actually said this

No source but there is no reason to cut content from the game it's a bad idea they already worked hard on making assist trophy, there isn't any smash character who was developed and completed to be an assist trophy/pokeball who was cut to be playable in the same game

 

[WeirdChillFever]

No source but there is no reason to cut content from the game it's a bad idea they already worked hard on making assist trophy, there isn't any smash character who was developed and completed to be an assist trophy/pokeball who was cut to be playable in the same game

Maybe because there was never DLC for a previous game in the first place.

 

[Geno Boost]

Maybe because there was never DLC for a previous game in the first place.

Even if there was DLC at that Time why would they cut content from the game if they already finished it? there is no reason to do this

 

[Talpr1]

Not many people care about Assist Trophies in the first place. I'm sure that even those who do will be glad to se an assist being promoted to a playable fighter; basically, you aren't removing content, you are sort of upgrading it. Waluigi or Takamaru or Dark Samus or whoever will be will still be in the game, but in a more prestigious role. Assist trophies also are easier to turn into playable characters because they already have a model and some animations.

 

[Putuk]

Not many people care about Assist Trophies in the first place. I'm sure that even those who do will be glad to se an assist being promoted to a playable fighter; basically, you aren't removing content, you are sort of upgrading it. Waluigi or Takamaru or Dark Samus or whoever will be will still be in the game, but in a more prestigious role. Assist trophies also are easier to turn into playable characters because they already have a model and some animations.

Assist Trophy characters would still need a new model, since they're much lower poly than actual fighters.

 

[Geno Boost]

Not many people care about Assist Trophies in the first place. I'm sure that even those who do will be glad to se an assist being promoted to a playable fighter; basically, you aren't removing content, you are sort of upgrading it. Waluigi or Takamaru or Dark Samus or whoever will be will still be in the game, but in a more prestigious role. Assist trophies also are easier to turn into playable characters because they already have a model and some animations.

Upgrading means you add something but the main problem here that you are removing something that's already good and has no issue, and Nintendo already decided the characters that will be assist trophy and pokeball and they worked hard on it already removing it won't be good, plus you will need to pay for something that got removed that was already here

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Upgrading means you add something but the main problem here that you are removing something that's already good and has no issue, and Nintendo already decided the characters that will be assist trophy and pokeball and they worked hard on it already removing it won't be good, plus you will need to pay for something that got removed that was already here

One could also just keep the assist and make it a DeDeDeal, so you can't summon Waluigi as Waluigi, but you can summon Waluigi when he's not in the current battle.

 

[Dre89]

If I want Ridley, I will support Ridley and vote for Ridley

I do, I still do and I have, Sakurai's "reasons" boil down to, "I didn't want to"
He didn't think he could make Ridley work cause he thought he was better suited as a Stage boss
And Smash 4 has proven that this was a terrible idea cause Stage bosses SUCK

Sorry but this is just silly

If you're going to vote for someone you know has no chance, you might as well just not vote. You've basically just done a few clicks that were completely pointless, and wasted the chance to make those clicks actually mean something.

And his reasons weren't 'I didn't want to'. He clearly tried to make him playable. Ridley does not have the body composition to be a playable character, that was obvious to everyone who wasn't a biased Ridley fan.

Sakurai is not going to force a character with an inappropriate body composition into the game. He's not going to sacrifice the quality of the game just to please a loud minority.

 

[Geno Boost]

One could also just keep the assist and make it a DeDeDeal, so you can't summon Waluigi as Waluigi, but you can summon Waluigi when he's not in the current battle.

I don't see this happening because they were already decided to be assist trophies and pokeballs at first

 

[AEMehr]

One could also just keep the assist and make it a DeDeDeal, so you can't summon Waluigi as Waluigi, but you can summon Waluigi when he's not in the current battle.

I mean, I guess you could do that. But that removes a gameplay element rather than an aesthetic one.

As far as I'm concerned, ATs are probably not going to upgrade into playable characters for this game's DLC. But you're more than welcome to vote for whoever you want, I gave Dillon a vote even though I know he's not going to happen ever. :\

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I mean, I guess you could do that. But that removes a gameplay element rather than an aesthetic one.

As far as I'm concerned, ATs are probably not going to upgrade into playable characters for this game's DLC. But you're more than welcome to vote for whoever you want, I gave Dillon a vote even though I know he's not going to happen ever. :\

Though unless you play 99 minutes with ATs only on high, one won't really notice the lack of Waluigi ATs because there are so many other ATs.
The removal of one won't make the variety drop down to zero.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

i made this, i did put possible DLC characters as much as i can (i know the roster wont end up like this)

Spoiler

Mario seires: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Daisy, Petey piranha, Prof. e. gadd, Wart, Captain toad, Fawful, Paper mario
Yoshi seires: , Stork
Wario seires: , 9-Volt, Mona, Captain syrup
Donkey kong seires: , , King k. rool, Donkey kong jr., Dixie kong, Stanley
Game & watch seires:
Punch-out seires: , King hippo
Legend of zelda seires: , , , , , , Ganon, Impa, Tetra, Vaati
Kid icarus seires: , ,
Light gun seires:
Metroid seires: , , Sylux
Fire emblem seires: , , , , , Black knight
Kirby seires: , , , Gooey, Daroach, Adeleine, Bandana/Waddle dee
Star fox seires: , , , Krystal, Slippy
Gyromite seires:
Pokemon seires: , , , , , , , , , , Grovyle (PMD), Sceptile
Animal crossing seires: , Mr. resetti
Pikmin seires: ,
F-zero seires: , Black shadow, Blood falcon
Mother seires: , , Ninten
Wii fit seires:
Xenonblade seires:
Other nintendo seires: Ray MK III, Hero (fossil fighter), Jill, Chibi-robo, Tempo, Mallo, Isaac, Barbara, Kururin, Captain rainbow, Zael
Rythem heaven seires: Marshal, Karate joe
Advance wars seires: Andy, Sami
Ice climbers seires:
Other retro seires: Mach rider, Ayumi, Mike jones, Ballon fighter, Exitebiker, Tamagon, Star man, , Bubbles, Muddy mole, Lip
Game freak/SEGA seires: Pulseman
Nintendo power/Nester funky bowling seires: Nester
NAMCO seires: , Heihachi, Dig dug
CAPCOM seires: , , Sir arthur
SEGA seires: , Akira, Alex kidd
Konami seires: , Bomberman, Simon belmont, Goemon
Ubisoft seires: Rayman
Square enix seires: Black mage, Slime
Rareware seires: Banjo-kazooie, Rash, Conker
Other 3rd party seires: Crash bandicoot, Spyro, Earth worm jim
Mii seires: , ,
Nintendo/Square enix seires: Mallow, Geno

Assist trophies and pokeball and stage hazards are not included because they are not possible to be DLC in smash 4 and they are deconfirmed until smash 5 maybe save them.

Spoiler

I wouldnt call 75% of that roster possible DLC choices especially those 3rd parties and retros

 

[Schnee117]

i made this, i did put possible DLC characters as much as i can (i know the roster wont end up like this)

Says "possible characters" but has Banjo, Rash and Conker who are owned by Microsoft.
Alrighty then.

 

[Geno Boost]

I wouldnt call 75% of that roster possible DLC choices especially those 3rd parties and retros

Retro characters are a kind of characters that are very unexpected to have
Getting the right to 3rd party from the same company would be easier to have than going to new company it's less complicated (but maybe I can agree with crash and earth worm Jim being way complicated)

 

[Aetheri]

No source but there is no reason to cut content from the game it's a bad idea they already worked hard on making assist trophy, there isn't any smash character who was developed and completed to be an assist trophy/pokeball who was cut to be playable in the same game

There wasn't any DLC or patching before either...There's no reason these characters can't exist with multiple roles in the same game either as some of these playable characters already do...
Assist Trophies have a randomizer placed on them, adding a code could simply prevent them from being chosen while the character is in play...
Remember DLC is extra content and was also not considered at first, and it is very likely that some of these assists were heavily considered for playable, such is the case for Takamaru...

If you're going to vote for someone you know has no chance, you might as well just not vote. You've basically just done a few clicks that were completely pointless, and wasted the chance to make those clicks actually mean something.

Because when Nintendo asks 'Who do you want to see as a playable fighter?' and people really want to see Ridley become playable, they will just not vote because 'no point'.... this is actually more pointless because you're doing yourself a disservice and your character a disservice by voting for somebody you don't really want to begin with....
Voting for someone you want in the game isn't 'wasting clicks' and it 'means something' to the person voting as opposed to voting for other characters who actually have a chance because that's the cool thing to do...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

*Posts 60+ roster*
*Doesn't have Inkling or Magolor*

Am dissapoint.

(Though I've been warming up to Mallow lately, seems cool)

EDIT: I don't see a Beedle + Fishmen tag-team yet, why?

 

[AEMehr]

Though unless you play 99 minutes with ATs only on high, one won't really notice the lack of Waluigi ATs because there are so many other ATs.
The removal of one won't make the variety drop down to zero.

That's not what I meant, it's just that all instances of characters appearing and disappearing in stages are all aesthetic changes. Even though not everybody uses ATs and the chances of even getting a certain one are like 1/39 or something, it removes a potential gameplay element. Which is something existing playable characters never do.

I mean, it's more or less just a thought process that only exists because no available characters challenge this way of thinking... So if Dr. Wright or any other AT did become playable, this argument would shatter immedately.

Though, I can definitely see an Assist Trophy altering gameplay to be playable before a character that acts as a stage hazard (Sorry, Yellow Devil fans).

 

[Geno Boost]

Says "possible characters" but has Banjo, Rash and Conker who are owned by Microsoft.
Alrighty then.

Phil spencer said there Is no issue of having banjo in smash so... Rareware characters are possible

 

[A Distant Demon]

Sorry but this is just silly

If you're going to vote for someone you know has no chance, you might as well just not vote. You've basically just done a few clicks that were completely pointless, and wasted the chance to make those clicks actually mean something.

And his reasons weren't 'I didn't want to'. He clearly tried to make him playable. Ridley does not have the body composition to be a playable character, that was obvious to everyone who wasn't a biased Ridley fan.

Sakurai is not going to force a character with an inappropriate body composition into the game. He's not going to sacrifice the quality of the game just to please a loud minority.

Im going to ignore the insult part and just say the votes will affect future titles. If people dont vote then it could look much worse for smash 5. If ridley still looks popular at least it's better chances for then.

Not like half the fanbase is voting for "impossible" characters anyway

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Retro characters are a kind of characters that are very unexpected to have
Getting the right to 3rd party from the same company would be easier to have than going to new company it's less complicated (but maybe I can agree with crash and earth worm Jim being way complicated)

Banjo all the way to spyro is never happening for many reasons despite their legacy.Heihachi and akari are deconfirmed because of mii outfits.Alex,goemon,mallow, geno are nowhere as iconic as the other 3rd parties u have listed. Retros are hard to pinpoint but expecting more than 1 is unlikely and extremely optimistic.BTW i don't think wart is ever coming back .Like in both smash and mario

 

[Schnee117]

Phil spencer said there Is no issue of having banjo in smash so... Rareware characters are possible

That means jack all.
Who DOESN'T want to have their characters in Smash? It's basic PR to push for having a character in Smash. Phil only said that because someone asked him about it.
Microsoft are a direct competitor to Nintendo in the console market. It makes no sense to put Rare characters now owned by Microsoft into Smash Bros.

 

[Aetheri]

Banjo all the way to spyro is never happening for many reasons despite their legacy.Heihachi and akari are deconfirmed because of mii outfits.Alex,goemon,mallow, geno are nowhere as iconic as the other 3rd parties u have listed. Retros are hard to pinpoint but expecting more than 1 is unlikely and extremely optimistic.BTW i don't think wart is ever coming back .Like in both smash and mario

Oh, so now Mii fighter outfits deconfirm a character? Guess Link and Megaman are deconfirmed then....

 

[Geno Boost]

*Posts 60+ roster*
*Doesn't have Inkling or Magolor*

Am dissapoint.

(Though I've been warming up to Mallow lately, seems cool)

EDIT: I don't see a Beedle + Fishmen tag-team yet, why?

I don't have inklings icon and I forgot about magolor

Banjo all the way to spyro is never happening for many reasons despite their legacy.Heihachi and akari are deconfirmed because of mii outfits.Alex,goemon,mallow, geno are nowhere as iconic as the other 3rd parties u have listed. Retros are hard to pinpoint but expecting more than 1 is unlikely and extremely optimistic

I don't call them impossible but they are veryyyyyyyy unlucky
Maybe but link has mii costume so...
But they are possible at least

That means jack all.
Who DOESN'T want to have their characters in Smash? It's basic PR to push for having a character in Smash. Phil only said that because someone asked him about it.
Microsoft are a direct competitor to Nintendo in the console market. It makes no sense to put Rare characters now owned by Microsoft into Smash Bros.

Why is he being voted a lot then?

 

[Schnee117]

Why is he being voted a lot then?

Why are people voting Batman despite the ballot saying Video Game characters only?
Why are people voting for Ridley despite being an awful stage hazard?
Why are people voting for Waluigi despite being an AT?

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Oh, so now Mii fighter outfits deconfirm a character? Guess Link and Megaman are deconfirmed then....

Will they are already in the game so thats different i think if they were ever gonna happen they wouldn't make them mii outfits. Kinda why I think inklings arent happening

I don't have inklings icon and I forgot about magolor

I don't call them impossible but they are veryyyyyyyy unlucky
Maybe but link has mii costume so...
But they are possible at least

Why is he being voted a lot then?

People are blinded by nostalgia they'll vote for banjo despite his current problem

 

[Geno Boost]

Why are people voting Batman despite the ballot saying Video Game characters only?
Why are people voting for Ridley despite being an awful stage hazard?
Why are people voting for Waluigi despite being an AT?

I don't know anything about banjo and never played his game so I don't know what are his chances anyway (I know he is veryyyyyy unlucky but I don't think it's impossible)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why are people voting Batman despite the ballot saying Video Game characters only?

Because that ballot doesn't even say it. A facebook post noted that it was for video game characters. Not everybody goes to facebook.

Why are people voting for Ridley despite being an awful stage hazard?

That's irrelevant to the ballot. You vote for who you want to see. No matter how unlikely. Sakurai wants a legitimate gauge of what people want, not what they think is likely. There's a difference. Likewise, Ridley's got no chance because Sakurai outright explained why he couldn't get him to work in Smash 4. The hazard bit doesn't mean anything at all. His only chance is Smash 5.

Why are people voting for Waluigi despite being an AT?

Because they want to play as him.

Don't forgot that the ballot is meant to see who people want for this game and future games. Their current role is beyond irrelevant. All that matters is whether Sakurai thinks they can be implemented and they're a video game character and they're a 3rd paty that's at least been on a nintendo system. Everything else is not actually relevant at all. Predefined roles do not matter as they're not proof of anything. There is no rule saying that Sakurai could not upgrade Waluigi to a DLC character. He's never stated any of that kind of stuff, so it's completely made up and should not be taken into account much at all beyond "I think it's unlikely". No video game character is actually impossible unless they have never had a single nintendo appearance. That's literally the only fact that exists.

 

[Schnee117]

Because that ballot doesn't even say it. A facebook post noted that it was for video game characters. Not everybody goes to facebook.


That's irrelevant to the ballot. You vote for who you want to see. No matter how unlikely. Sakurai wants a legitimate gauge of what people want, not what they think is likely. There's a difference. Likewise, Ridley's got no chance because Sakurai outright explained why he couldn't get him to work in Smash 4. The hazard bit doesn't mean anything at all. His only chance is Smash 5.


Because they want to play as him.

Don't forgot that the ballot is meant to see who people want for this game and future games. Their current role is beyond irrelevant. All that matters is whether Sakurai thinks they can be implemented and they're a video game character and they're a 3rd paty that's at least been on a nintendo system. Everything else is not actually relevant at all. Predefined roles do not matter as they're not proof of anything. There is no rule saying that Sakurai could not upgrade Waluigi to a DLC character. He's never stated any of that kind of stuff, so it's completely made up and should not be taken into account much at all beyond "I think it's unlikely". No video game character is actually impossible unless they have never had a single nintendo appearance. That's literally the only fact that exists.

Spoiler

Oh look. It says "Submit a Video game character's name"

And yes I'm aware of what the ballot is for thank you very much.
I'm bringing up examples of characters that have chances equal to or worse than Banjo for Smash 4 because people are voting for what they want to see as Smash 4 DLC including those with virtually no chance.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Spoiler

View attachment 63223

Oh look. It says "Submit a Video game character's name"

And yes I'm aware of what the ballot is for thank you very much.
I'm bringing up examples of characters that have chances equal to or worse than Banjo for Smash 4 because people are voting for what they want to see as Smash 4 DLC including those with virtually no chance.

And they should vote for whoever they want because that's the point of the poll. Not for who they think "has a chance"(which is completely irrelevant to the poll and should not even be pointed out anyway, since it only makes people vote for characters they don't want). Why should we vote dishonestly? There's no reason to.

Likewise, "video game character" and "originating in a video game" are not synomous phrases to tons of people. It's easy for many to think that as long as they were in a game, they can be called a video game character. It's a poorly worded thing to say, and is easy to confuse people. It's not that clear what they meant. They voted for a character that appears in a video game. Each time. It's a lot more vague than people give it credit for.

 

[Schnee117]

And they should vote for whoever they want because that's the point of the poll. Not for who they think "has a chance"(which is completely irrelevant to the poll and should not even be pointed out anyway, since it only makes people vote for characters they don't want). Why should we vote dishonestly? There's no reason to.

Likewise, "video game character" and "originating in a video game" are not synomous phrases to tons of people. It's easy for many to think that as long as they were in a game, they can be called a video game character. It's a poorly worded thing to say, and is easy to confuse people. It's not that clear what they meant. They voted for a character that appears in a video game. Each time. It's a lot more vague than people give it credit for.

And now I'm starting to think that you didn't even get the point I made with the original comment.
"Why are people voting for characters with virtually no chance?"
You've been reiterating my point multiple times.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And now I'm starting to think that you didn't even get the point I made with the original comment.
"Why are people voting for characters with virtually no chance?"
You've been reiterating my point multiple times.

And the answer is because that's not relevant to the poll at all. Unfortunately for you, you only listed one character with "virtually no chance", being Ridley. Waluigi is highly unlikely. Batman has 0% chance due to not originating in a video game. Your examples were pretty poor because they aren't even under the same tier of possibilities. Frankly, your argument is full of a lot of holes.

Geno Boost is right. Banjo & Kazooie does have a chance because he's had both a Nintendo appearance and is iconic enough. A lot better chance than Ridley who Sakurai couldn't even make work. They're just not good comparisons because they aren't even in similar situations.

 

[Putuk]

Pff, everyone keeps throwing around words like "Sakurai said so!".

Like he didn't change his mind on things before. It's almost like he's human and can see things in a new light, given time.

Vote forever you damn please. Might not affect the DLC of the current game, but maybe in the future the dev team will be like "Hey, remember that one character from the Ballot that was pretty popular? Maybe we should add him/her/it, that seems like a popular option.".

 

[Calane]

That's not what I meant, it's just that all instances of characters appearing and disappearing in stages are all aesthetic changes. Even though not everybody uses ATs and the chances of even getting a certain one are like 1/39 or something, it removes a potential gameplay element. Which is something existing playable characters never do.

I mean, it's more or less just a thought process that only exists because no available characters challenge this way of thinking... So if Dr. Wright or any other AT did become playable, this argument would shatter immedately.

Though, I can definitely see an Assist Trophy altering gameplay to be playable before a character that acts as a stage hazard (Sorry, Yellow Devil fans).

You know something I don't get about the whole AT thing? If, say, an assist trophy did become playable, what would be the point of not having their assist trophy show up when they're being played? It's not like you can't play as 4 of the same character in a battle, so what's the big deal about assist trophies and such? It's possible to have 8 Mario's in the same battle, so it can't be a "but this character is already here!" thing, as that doesn't really matter. Just change the color of the assist trophy or something, I don't know. It really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know something I don't get about the whole AT thing? If, say, an assist trophy did become playable, what would be the point of not having their assist trophy show up when they're being played? It's not like you can't play as 4 of the same character in a battle, so what's the big deal about assist trophies and such? It's possible to have 8 Mario's in the same battle, so it can't be a "but this character is already here!" thing, as that doesn't really matter. Just change the color of the assist trophy or something, I don't know. It really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

That's a personal Sakurai choice. There doesn't seem to be any real specific reason for it.

 

[CometX-ing]

And the answer is because that's not relevant to the poll at all. Unfortunately for you, you only listed one character with "virtually no chance", being Ridley. Waluigi is highly unlikely. Batman has 0% chance due to not originating in a video game. Your examples were pretty poor because they aren't even under the same tier of possibilities. Frankly, your argument is full of a lot of holes.

Geno Boost is right. Banjo & Kazooie does have a chance because he's had both a Nintendo appearance and is iconic enough. A lot better chance than Ridley who Sakurai couldn't even make work. They're just not good comparisons because they aren't even in similar situations.

Are you thinking of this from a fan standpoint or a company one, why would Nintendo ever give free publicity to a character owned by a competitor in consoles. Unless Banjo gets a Wii U release in the coming months Nintendo has no reasons to add him.