Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Ura]

Given that were most likely getting 4 characters before DLC ends, I think it's for the better that we get 1 character per series. Wolf, K. Rool, Bandana Dee, and Isaac would be a great way to close off DLC as they all represent different series and are highly requested.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

This is my speculation as well. I'm iffy on the fourth, it can pretty much be anyone. I'd also include Krystal in "other possibilities," though pretty low overall.

I'm iffy on the fourth too, I'm betting Dee but it could also be any of other possiblities or Rayman. And I guess I could put Krystal to the other possiblities, she is fairly popular as well.

 

[Muah]

THE WONDERFUL ONE WONDER-RED!! (Wonder-Red 4 Smash)

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hey Muah!
Nice to see that you joined Smashboards!
I can't wait for more news about SSF2 soon.

 

[BKupa666]

Lately I've been thinking that maybe Sakurai added the K. Rool costume, so people wouldn't be so sure of his inclusion. Before the Mii costume came out almost everyone saw K. Rool as the most likely newcomer to get added with the help of the ballot, maybe Sakurai took note of that and added the Mii costume so that people would start questioning how likely he really is, thus making his inclusion as a character not so predictable. I only have this hope because K. Rool IS so highly requested, and Sakurai hasn't said anything about why K. Rool isn't being added like he did for Chrom and Ridley.

I don't think they added the costume solely to sow doubt among a small, hyperanalytical portion of the online fanbase, but it's interesting to think about as a recognized side effect. They watch our forums and had to have known everyone was expecting a K. Rool coronation. Now, "LOL ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN," so even if we still get K. Rool, it'll be a surprise to a big chunk of the people who would have expected him under normal circumstances.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I don't think they added the costume solely to sow doubt among a small, hyperanalytical portion of the online fanbase, but it's interesting to think about as a recognized side effect. They watch our forums and had to have known everyone was expecting a K. Rool coronation. Now, "LOL ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN," so even if we still get K. Rool, it'll be a surprise to a big chunk of the people who would have expected him under normal circumstances.

I don't either. If anything it was planned before and had nothing to do with the ballot, and they just wanted to provide it to fans of the character. Maybe even they already planned him for later and wanted this as predecessor to an announcement. And no, I don't see how him coincidentally being shown the same day as Chrom means much of anything.

 

[Troykv]

Prediction time?

Likeable a Pre-Ballot:

Wolf
(A surprise)

Possible in the Ballot:

King K. Rool
Bandana Dee
Isaac
(More surprises!)

 

[Aetheri]

Predictions??! Ok!

Pre-Ballot DLC:
Wolf

----

Post-Ballot DLC:
Midna
Dark Samus
Ridley
Impa

Spoiler

might be a little bit of wishful thinking

 

[BluePikmin11]

New Update:

* Adeleine:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392869x2ace1B2b-15

* Isa Jo:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392877x4bbbb798-15

* Kamek:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392870xF34B4F2a-15

* Magolor:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392866xbFf54aeD-15

* Magnus:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392953x779A18D5-15

* Matthew:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392952xe58447d0-15

* Pious Augustus:
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392872xe54BED42-15

* Sami
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll392875x51D14F78-15
Go vote!

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I will not deny that we lack sufficient information to know what the costumes fully entail (hence why I'm hesitant to completely count the likes of K. Rool and Inklings out).
However, based on what information we do know, the ONLY precedence for a costume and a fighter co-existing is through the fighter coming first. And with the sole exception of Inklings and K. Rool, all non-playable character based costumes are of those that hadn't a hope in Hell to be DLC characters.

That's enough to come to the hypothesis that costume for unconfirmed character = red flag. (Not automatic disconfirmation; just a bad sign)
The hypothesis may end up proven false via Inkling, K. Rool, or some other character we don't know is going to be a costume becoming a character. And if it does, oh well. Hypothesis were meant to be proven true or proven false and revised when new information comes to light.
Even if it's based on insufficient information, it's better than just sitting there, twiddling our thumbs and going "Eyup! Means absolutely nothing because it hasn't been said to mean anything!".

Is it better than seeing nothing of it, though? I mean, it's a lot less fun, sure, but it'd be a lot more objective to wait until a direct line of correlation presents itself. The precedence for this is simply unlike anything else the series has experienced before. It's for that reason that I feel like a lot of people are equating unusual circumstance to automatically being a red flag when we really lack any sufficient knowledge whatsoever on the subject--fear of the unknown in other words.

Thinking more on it, though, I do see a minor semblance between Mii Costumes and Trophies. Mewtwo and Lucas in particular. Both were shown in Smash Bros. without being Characters before their reveal as DLC Characters. In this case, K. Rool and Inkling meet similar criteria: shown in Smash Bros. without being a Character. It's for that reason that I believe that compatibility--the hard-to-justify difference of being playable versus being a Final Smash at the same time--takes much higher priority over this than debut--the shown difference of being playable versus having likeness stolen at the same time. Even with this in mind, however, I'm not confident in claiming that Mii Costumes are as valid as Trophies are. A hypothesis only requires making a supposition using limited knowledge, but in the end that still remains as guessing rather than theory-crafting when our knowledge is this limited. It's hard to call it an educated guess if we're not even educated on that matter beyond "Well, it's a thing that Miis have costumes" in the first place. My stance remains neutral because of this. I'm going to continue to "twiddle my thumbs" until I have enough evidence to create a claim I can fully stand behind, since it wouldn't mean much for anyone to hear otherwise.

Honestly, I just want to make Smash Speculation more of a science than it generally is. Anyone can throw out guesses or gut-feelings. This is observational field we're all in. Semantics should be left for what comes after, like what @ PushDustIn is entiteld to after uncovering as much as he does about previous Smash development. The mountains of evidence to back his claims certainly justifies semantics like that, at least.

 

[Bowserlick]

1 major reason why this can't be true: Why would the moveset be rejected for 1 character, yet given to another that we know for a fact nearly got cut?

Bowser Jr. was the last character made and just barely made the cut. I wonder if in early in delevelopment, movesets were made for many characters, but before actual development, the crew realized that with King K. Rool's weight and perhaps strength, he might be overpowered.

And while balancing could always mitigate this, it is possible that Nintendo did not want K. Rool back in the mainstream. So Bowser Jr.

I am probably wrong, but it is a fun conspiracy theory.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it better than seeing nothing of it, though? I mean, it's a lot less fun, sure, but it'd be a lot more objective to wait until a direct line of correlation presents itself. The precedence for this is simply unlike anything else the series has experienced before. It's for that reason that I feel like a lot of people are equating unusual circumstance to automatically being a red flag when we really lack any sufficient knowledge whatsoever on the subject--fear of the unknown in other words.

Yet there have been plenty of times when "unusual circumstances" were seen in a positive light. To say all it is is just "fear of the unknown" is just generalization.
Take the two biggest examples that are actually similar to each other yet ended up in opposite directions; Palutena and Ridley.
Most people saw the unusual circumstance in how Sakurai hinted at Ridley's appearance then said nothing more and seemed to avoid directly revealing him, and took it as an unusual circumstance that would have a favorable result (even though the April Direct should have turned that around, plenty attributed it to teasing people into believing he was just a stage boss).
Then they saw a similar circumstance with Palutena, where Sakurai seemed to actively avoid referring to her by name and then seemingly teased people into believing she was just a trophy in the April Direct before quickly revealing it was Psuedo-Palutena. Like with Ridley, many people took this unusual circumstance as a favorable outcome.

The end result? Palutena was revealed as fighter at E3 of 2014, Ridley was revealed in the 50-Facts Extravaganza to legitimately be a stage boss.
Similar circumstances, different outcomes. Yet neither were met with "fear of the unknown" when little information was available.

tl;dr version: It's less to do with "fear of the unknown" and more to do with people simply applying logic and not favoring the result they see unlike certain past cases.

Thinking more on it, though, I do see a minor semblance between Mii Costumes and Trophies. Mewtwo and Lucas in particular. Both were shown in Smash Bros. without being Characters before their reveal as DLC Characters. In this case, K. Rool and Inkling meet similar criteria: shown in Smash Bros. without being a Character. It's for that reason that I believe that compatibility--the hard-to-justify difference of being playable versus being a Final Smash at the same time--takes much higher priority over this than debut--the shown difference of being playable versus having likeness stolen at the same time. Even with this in mind, however, I'm not confident in claiming that Mii Costumes are as valid as Trophies are. A hypothesis only requires making a supposition using limited knowledge, but in the end that still remains as guessing rather than theory-crafting when our knowledge is this limited. It's hard to call it an educated guess if we're not even educated on that matter beyond "Well, it's a thing that Miis have costumes" in the first place. My stance remains neutral because of this. I'm going to continue to "twiddle my thumbs" until I have enough evidence to create a claim I can fully stand behind, since it wouldn't mean much for anyone to hear otherwise.

Random color highlight.

The key difference between Mewtwo and Lucas having Trophies and Inkling and K. Rool having costumes is that the former were from release and they were added as separate characters post-release while the latter (though ironically they both have Trophies as well) were added post-release as well.

Honestly, I just want to make Smash Speculation more of a science than it generally is. Anyone can throw out guesses or gut-feelings. This is observational field we're all in. Semantics should be left for what comes after, like what @ PushDustIn is entiteld to after uncovering as much as he does about previous Smash development. The mountains of evidence to back his claims certainly justifies semantics like that, at least.

You know what else is science? Making hypothesis based on what data is available, then making adjustments when more data becomes available.
The fact what I'm saying is only some guess or gut feeling to you is highly insulting.

 

[Muah]

Hey Muah!
Nice to see that you joined Smashboards!
I can't wait for more news about SSF2 soon.

Thanks I'm still new & alot of things about this site still confuses me lol

 

[Goatmeal]

Glad bowser jr made it so I can troll the S**t out of people https://youtu.be/-VcSdlujxwA

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pre-Ballot(and imo, the only potential way to get Vets):
Wolf(highly popular and easy to remake)
Snake(the ballot wouldn't be a reason to bring him back. He's popular enough on his own. He's only getting in if the licensing goes through, period)
Pichu(Easiest to make. Doesn't have issues that Squirtle and Ivysaur have. He takes not just the least amount of time, but his gimmick actually is favorable for Smash 4. Remember rage? Well, Pichu only works better in this particular game. Also, he's vastly popular, iconic, and the Gen II main mascot. Something that Squirtle and Ivysaur don't all have. They also more or less got in due to PT, not really on their own strengths. Pichu may have been a clone, but he was chosen over Raichu for a reason, who also could've been a Pikachu clone).

Post-Ballot:
King K. Rool(the costume means jack as we doing known why we got a costume of him. He's still a high contender at this point.)
Isaac(highly requested right now, but that's about it. Not banking on him, though. Would be cool, however)
Chibi-Robo(I normally would say "eh", but the new Amiibo as well as him being back in the gaming world with an all-new game makes him favorable in my eyes. Also a pretty sweet character with a lot of potential)
Krystal(still requested to this day, and has clear moveset potential as well would not have been a clone regardless. Uniqueness definitely is going for her. I consider her a fairly low chance, but still higher than most 3rd party characters bar Snake and Rayman or a Bandai-Namco rep at most. Being that Sega has no real good contenders to represented a new franchise, and i cannot see any third party franchises, who are still guests, getting more than one playable character at all)
A Bandai-Namco secondary franchise rep(Only Nightmare and Agumon do I see have a decent chance at this point. High moveset potential, most iconic enough, very popular,. Nightmare has to be a bit toned down, obviously, but Agumon does not.)
Rayman(already a trophy, has great moveset potential, only bad thing going for him is a crappy Amiibo at most. Clearly Nintendo and Ubisoft can come enough toan agreement to even make Rayman appear in Smash already. Making him playable may not be that hard. That said, I can see them refusing to cooperate too)

I already went into why I don't believe Squirtle or Ivysaur have a good chance of coming back this game, however Young Link and Ice Climbers were pretty much gone into regardless. Young Link ha snothing to set him apart from Toon Link, so unless he gets a new unique moveset that makes him feel very different, he's pretty much gone. Ice Climbers are dead due to technical limitations. This is also part of why Squirtle and Ivysaur got cut. They were only there for PT at that point, but still didn't come back on their own. There were clearly higher priorities, including Jigglypuff, which makes sense, being part of the original 12(who Sakurai has proven he views them as fairly important, although not important enough to be impossible to cut).

 

[Ura]

My predictions for the rest of DLC...

Pre-Ballot

Spoiler

S Tier

(Almost a guarantee IMO considering that Star Fox Zero is on the horizon and Nintendo has shown they would hold off a character if it suits them as shown with Lucas who was near completion at reveal and was only released 2 and a half months later)

-
-

C Tier

(Vets that are unlikely but can still very well pop up as DLC before our very eyes)

D Tier

(Legal crap holding him back from making a return. Still not doomed though)

F Tier

(Doomed for DLC but could very well end up being in the game if there's an NX version of Smash 4)

Post-Ballot

Spoiler

Top Tier

No one IMO because there really isn't "locks" now that K. Rool is a Mii Costume

High Tier

Isaac, Bandana Dee, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Impa, Rayman, Chibi Robo, Paper Mario, Inkling

Mid Tier

Daisy, Krystal, Sceptile, Andy, Bomberman, A Xenoblade character, A retro character

Low Tier

Black Shadow, Another FE character, Ninten, Assist Trophies becoming playable characters, Shantae

Bottom Tier

Ridley, Banjo & Kazooie, Shovel Knight

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

*Muah is here*

Oh God no...

 

[Kenith]

*Muah is here*

Oh God no...

Am I missing something? This seems mean.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Am I missing something? This seems mean.

It is nothing too bad. It's just that YouTube celebrities would rarely show their face here unless they are named Shokio or Toadster.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bowser Jr. was the last character made and just barely made the cut. I wonder if in early in delevelopment, movesets were made for many characters, but before actual development, the crew realized that with King K. Rool's weight and perhaps strength, he might be overpowered.

And while balancing could always mitigate this, it is possible that Nintendo did not want K. Rool back in the mainstream. So Bowser Jr.

I am probably wrong, but it is a fun conspiracy theory.

For 'muh possibly OP' we have received balance patches, the 'muh OP' argument has become null and void solely based on that. Now for the 'Nintendo might not have wanted K.Rool' that would beg the question. Why?

 

[Champ Gold]

I'm hoping Wonder Red becomes playable. His whole playstyle will be super hype and with him and Captain Falcon in the mix, we can have our Sentai and Kamen Rider in Smash as well

 

[PushDustIn]

I don't really see moves being ported over to another character just because the original character was OP. Moveset are designed around that character. See Character Design 101 on Source Gaming if you want more information on how characters are designed.

Furthermore, there's no evidence at all that K Rool was ever planned for Smash for 3DS and Wii U. If the trophy was especially high res or something that could hint at it, but the K Rool trophy is the same quality as the other trophies.

Link to Character Design 101

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Thanks I'm still new & alot of things about this site still confuses me lol

Don't expect that to stop any time soon!

------------------------------------------------------------------

Speculation started before I could get my popcorn!

Alright, suppose I should throw my two cents.

Aside from King K. Rool and to a lesser extent, Isaac and Wolf, I've put little confidence into specific characters becoming DLC.

Boring for the usually oh-so very opinionated G0LD3N L0TUS, I know. Maybe I should pack my bags?

 

[Pazzo.]

Isaac is a fan favorite, for sure...

Hopefully Sakurai will see that and consider him.
Inb4 Isaac Mii Costume.

 

[Roberto zampari]

I'm afraid the worst: some characters that we want as mii costumes and all deconfirmed.
Just like K. Rool and Chrom. Anyone agrees?

 

[Pazzo.]

I'm afraid the worst: some characters that we want as mii costumes and all deconfirmed.
Just like K. Rool and Chrom. Anyone agrees?

Agreed. But there's still no agreement over if a Mii Costume disconfirms a character or not.

 

[Pakky]

This going to sound mega ignorant, especially seeing as how ave golden sun but have not really played it but is Isaac a swordsman? Or more of a jack of all trades sort of guy with a sword like Link ior to a much lesser extent like Smash Kirby?

 

[Pazzo.]

This going to sound mega ignorant, especially seeing as how ave golden sun but have not really played it but is Isaac a swordsman? Or more of a jack of all trades sort of guy with a sword like Link ior to a much lesser extent like Smash Kirby?

His main 'physical' attacks use his sword... But he has such a wide number of attacks that use the 'magic' of the series. I imagine him as a mixture between Robin/Link/Zelda.

Check out his support thread for all the neat stuff he's capable of!

http://smashboards.com/threads/isaac-for-dlc-let-out-a-howl-now-smashified.324274/

 

[aldelaro5]

This going to sound mega ignorant, especially seeing as how ave golden sun but have not really played it but is Isaac a swordsman? Or more of a jack of all trades sort of guy with a sword like Link ior to a much lesser extent like Smash Kirby?

I only played the first game and tbh, his sword is more a secondary weapon.

It's like expect him to use it in simple attacks like jabs and tilts, but it is certainly not most of his attacks. You would mostly uses magic stuff or djinn in practive.

It;s not like link where his main weapon is a sword and has a lot of other stuff or like marth where MOST attacks is sword.

So, I honestly do find the another swordsman argument a little silly.....

 

[FalKoopa]

This going to sound mega ignorant, especially seeing as how ave golden sun but have not really played it but is Isaac a swordsman? Or more of a jack of all trades sort of guy with a sword like Link ior to a much lesser extent like Smash Kirby?

His most basic moves are indeed sword moves, and he's close to Link to in that sense, just replace Link's tools with Psynergy.

That said, he uses his sword a lot less than Link or Robin.

 

[Pazzo.]

I imagine Isaac using a lot of punches and kicks for standards, and a few sword attacks for tilts and smashes.

 

[Pakky]

His most basic moves are indeed sword moves, and he's close to Link to in that sense, just replace Link's tools with Psynergy.

That said, he uses his sword a lot less than Link or Robin.

Oh,okay, well that's good, I thought he was going to be a basic sword guy, which would have confused me if he was because then I would have been wondering where those energy hands from brawl came from.

 

[Logo12]

I don't think they added the costume solely to sow doubt among a small, hyperanalytical portion of the online fanbase, but it's interesting to think about as a recognized side effect. They watch our forums and had to have known everyone was expecting a K. Rool coronation. Now, "LOL ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN," so even if we still get K. Rool, it'll be a surprise to a big chunk of the people who would have expected him under normal circumstances.

Being one hyperanalytical person who thought the same for Wolf, I can only say this kind of inspection is only being hopeful for the character without any reason. Dunno, just me.

---

Oh boy predictions!
...umm...

Wolf. *runs away*

---
Seriously, this is like one of the topic I want to contribute the most but can never get to find a perfect way to inspect.

 

[Starphoenix]

Have to admit, I am not that excited about more characters. I have my main characters, rarely do I ever play anyone else, more characters mean more matchups I have to learn, and most all of the characters I wanted are in the game. The only thing I care about are stages and new series. If we end up getting a character from a new series that brings with it new content, I'll be pleased. Though with the way most of the DLC content has gone I'm sure it'll be a disappointment too.

 

[SmashChu]

I don't think they added the costume solely to sow doubt among a small, hyperanalytical portion of the online fanbase, but it's interesting to think about as a recognized side effect. They watch our forums and had to have known everyone was expecting a K. Rool coronation. Now, "LOL ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN," so even if we still get K. Rool, it'll be a surprise to a big chunk of the people who would have expected him under normal circumstances.

I think it has to do more with costumes being planned before the ballot's finished. It may also be a way to guarantee characters that fans wants but the team may not be able to add as full characters (rights, time, ect).

 

[Kenith]

Have to admit, I am not that excited about more characters. I have my main characters, rarely do I ever play anyone else, more characters mean more matchups I have to learn, and most all of the characters I wanted are in the game. The only thing I care about are stages and new series. If we end up getting a character from a new series that brings with it new content, I'll be pleased. Though with the way most of the DLC content has gone I'm sure it'll be a disappointment too.

I agree, I mostly just want new series and many stages...
All of the characters I support are from new series.

 

[JaidynReiman]

This going to sound mega ignorant, especially seeing as how ave golden sun but have not really played it but is Isaac a swordsman? Or more of a jack of all trades sort of guy with a sword like Link ior to a much lesser extent like Smash Kirby?

As far as base attacks, his base weapon is a sword and he just uses normal attacks. Isaac's psynergy is what makes the Golden Sun characters stand out from the rest of the GS's lineup of "normal" characters and why the playable characters are so powerful by comparison.


Although, note that Isaac doesn't even have to use a sword; he has several weapons he can equip: swords, axes, and maces. Odds are he would use a sword in Smash, but he's got so many abilities through Psynergy, as well as the possibility of using Djinn, that he could get away with using his sword very little in gameplay, and I do imagine that Isaac would have his sword sheathed most of the time (like Shulk) and only pull it out when he needs it.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

As far as base attacks, his base weapon is a sword and he just uses normal attacks. Isaac's psynergy is what makes the Golden Sun characters stand out from the rest of the GS's lineup of "normal" characters and why the playable characters are so powerful by comparison.


Although, note that Isaac doesn't even have to use a sword; he has several weapons he can equip: swords, axes, and maces. Odds are he would use a sword in Smash, but he's got so many abilities through Psynergy, as well as the possibility of using Djinn, that he could get away with using his sword very little in gameplay, and I do imagine that Isaac would have his sword sheathed most of the time (like Shulk) and only pull it out when he needs it.

If Isaac gets in, I really can't see him ever using axes or maces. Either relying on his sword for most of his normal attacks, using his sword for some of them, or no sword at all.

 

[Morbi]

Have to admit, I am not that excited about more characters. I have my main characters, rarely do I ever play anyone else, more characters mean more matchups I have to learn, and most all of the characters I wanted are in the game. The only thing I care about are stages and new series. If we end up getting a character from a new series that brings with it new content, I'll be pleased. Though with the way most of the DLC content has gone I'm sure it'll be a disappointment too.

Honestly, learning new match ups is a positive aspect of DLC for me. In certain respects, it enhances the longevity of the game. However, I largely agree with your sentiment. I do not really play any characters that did not originate from Smash 64 aside from Sheik and Falco. And Falco technically did originate from Smash 64. Nevertheless, there is always the chance that a new DLC character will captivate me and that is what keeps me excited about more characters.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Honestly I blame the artwork if Issac does end up using a sword, they always HAVE to draw the main hero with a sword