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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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Scamper52596

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There's an obvious two sides to this coin, and one side will inevitably come crashing down by the end of all this.

Can't wait...

I'm just going to suggest neither side get too cocky about the situation. We all have our opinions like we always do, but at the same time we don't absolutely know for sure what's going to happen at this point. So just be careful.
 

YoshiandToad

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Just sounds like desperate straw grasping to me, but hey; we've all been there, right Ridley and fellow Toad fans?

After all; they used one design for Ridley's boss, ergo they can totally use another for the playable. Oh wait, they didn't.

There are multiple Toads, so it doesn't matter if one is Peach's counter, another can be playable. Oh wait, they're not.

K. Rool's case is only special because this situation is new; K. Rool is an outfit and not a NPC. It doesn't rule him out at all, but I can't help but laugh at those who think this somehow IMPROVES his situation.

All will come to light in October anyway. Let's see which side comes out tops.
 
D

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I'm on the side that things don't look good for K. Rool considering there is no legitimate precedence to his situation, but it's not 100% over yet. "It's not over 'til it's over."

However, I will argue against bad counterpoints to the situation, regardless of whether they are in favor of or against K. Rool's chances.
 
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Godzillathewonderdog

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Lately I've been thinking that maybe Sakurai added the K. Rool costume, so people wouldn't be so sure of his inclusion. Before the Mii costume came out almost everyone saw K. Rool as the most likely newcomer to get added with the help of the ballot, maybe Sakurai took note of that and added the Mii costume so that people would start questioning how likely he really is, thus making his inclusion as a character not so predictable. I only have this hope because K. Rool IS so highly requested, and Sakurai hasn't said anything about why K. Rool isn't being added like he did for Chrom and Ridley.
 

DJ3DS

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I agree with @ S Senselessbreak . Everything about the costume is entirely speculation on both sides. There isn't enough evidence either way to paint it as a good or bad thing. Until further down the line, it just is.
 

Senselessbreak

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I agree with @ S Senselessbreak . Everything about the costume is entirely speculation on both sides. There isn't enough evidence either way to paint it as a good or bad thing. Until further down the line, it just is.
As history shows, unless Sakurai explicitly says the character won't happen, then you can't make up "rules" to deconfirm a character. Also keep in mind Sakurai changes his mind ALL the time.
 

Aetheri

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Here's the thing....we are talking about Mii costumes...easy to make, fast DLC...but when it comes down to the wire and King K Rool's name comes up amoung the thousands or even millions of votes on the ballot...is Sakurai really going to skip over the character simply because, 'we can already play as K Rool using the Miis'?

When the Inklings Mii costumes were announced and people brought up Link and Megaman, 'but they are different designs'...Samus's costume was added 'but they were already in the game'...you want to know what difference this makes? It means the model was already in game making the costume a quick and easy add-on...but when it comes to K Rool a new model had to be made...does this not seem fishy to some people? Making a completely new model for one of the most popular characters circulating on the net and reserving it ONLY for a mii costume?

Does his situation change? Sure it does...but does his chances change? If you ask me no, because I'm looking at the facts...'The ballot isn't done yet', 'Playable fighters and Mii fighters are simultaneously in the game' and 'Mii costumes are quick and easy to make for additional DLC'...
 
D

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Also keep in mind Sakurai changes his mind ALL the time.
It's statements like this that make me want to vomit. shake my head. (Perhaps I was being too harsh the first time...)

It's a gross generalization and an excuse to say "anything can happen!".
 
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D

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Allow me to direct you to my previous post since, clearly you've learned nothing.

http://smashboards.com/threads/dlc-character-discussion-thread.410811/page-53#post-19970963
Allow me to direct you to my middle finger.

Also, literally the only aspects of Sakurai "changing his mind" you've mentioned are Villager (which is legitimate) and Ryu (which is not legitimate; Sakurai never said "no fighting game characters").

So if I didn't "learn anything" from your post, it's because your post teaches nothing of importance. Hell, all it is is a rant about how people jump to conclusions (both reasonably and unreasonably, but apparently both are worth lumping together to criticize) and end up being wrong. What's the lesson supposed to be? "Don't be too quick to make assumptions because you could possibly be wrong?" NO ****, SHERLOCK.
 
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Arcanir

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Here's the thing....we are talking about Mii costumes...easy to make, fast DLC...but when it comes down to the wire and King K Rool's name comes up amoung the thousands or even millions of votes on the ballot...is Sakurai really going to skip over the character simply because, 'we can already play as K Rool using the Miis'?
That's assuming that the costume was made before the ballot was taken into account. Considering the timing of its release (July 31st), it's entirely possible that he already had a glimpse at what the results were and made some preliminary decisions based on that. The thing to consider is that there is always the possibility that Sakurai looks at the costume as a way to appealing to the fanbase, he has done that in the past and could be doing it now, even if we don't agree with how it was done.
 

Troykv

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K. Rool is the ultimate coin flip... Nobody is sure about his chances. The costume is a good thing or a bad thing?

Who knows...
 

Aetheri

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That's assuming that the costume was made before the ballot was taken into account. Considering the timing of its release (July 31st), it's entirely possible that he already had a glimpse at what the results were and made some preliminary decisions based on that. The thing to consider is that there is always the possibility that Sakurai looks at the costume as a way to appealing to the fanbase, he has done that in the past and could be doing it now, even if we don't agree with how it was done.
This is also based on an assumption as well...for all we know Sakurai is simply being a troll as we all know he very well can be...'oh look K Rool is a popular character on the ballot at the moment, I know what will stir the **** amoung the community:troll:'
 

True Blue Warrior

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The reason why I don't think the K. Rool situation is comparable to the Ridley situation is that unlike Ridley, it was explicitly implied he was going to be a boss character, so we already knew he was going to be in this game. With the K. Rool Mii costume, it does not count as an in-game role for K. Rool because it isn't him, but rather a different character dressing up as him. And with all the costume of non-playable characters, the only one that not only doesn't have an in-game role but also actually had a plausible chance in the first place (unlike Heihachi, Lloyd never was a plausible contender as he is not at all a video game icon) was Heihachi. That said, I'd be lying if I said I was confident in K. Rool's chances and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't end up as a playable DLC character.

Edit: I forgot to mention Inklings as well. As for them, I still think they have a chance of being DLC.
 
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Arcanir

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This is also based on an assumption as well...for all we know Sakurai is simply being a troll as we all know he very well can be...'oh look K Rool is a popular character on the ballot at the moment, I know what will stir the **** amoung the community:troll:'
Firstly, I really dislike the whole "Sakurai is just a troll" mentality, because it works on the assumption that anything can happen even if it goes against what's presented factually, especially when it comes to characters as people look to that as an excuse. Not everything the man does means that he's toying around with the fanbase, sometimes a duck is just a duck.

Secondly, you're right that it's an assumption, but as I said before, it's not like the man is oblivious to what the fans want. He said himself he knew how popular Lucas and Roy were leading up into their confirmation, so he's not unaware of the desires of the fanbase. However, that doesn't mean he will always put in what they want, Chrom was a decently liked character, but he wasn't put in and instead was just given a presence via NPC roles and the Mii Costume. What's to say that the same didn't happen to K. Rool in this case? What if he felt that despite being popular, he decided against him and used the costume as a way to appeal? It wouldn't be the first time a popularly requested character got a role people didn't want for them (Ridley), so it has to be considered that the Mii costume could be a negative here for him.

I'm not saying he's 100% deconfirmed, but I do think that completely ignoring the possibility is being unmindful of what could be the case.
 

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thought of this, but what if the characters that are currently mii costumes are characters that Sakarai can't think of a good enough balanced moveset for them.
I would pull the "Sakurai simply just doesn't like them or doesn't want them in the game", but now he said that its fan service from here on out. and adding them as a mii costume also gets them out of the way so he can focus on other characters that are highly requested on the ballot. But I may be wrong and the inklings and King k. Rool are being developed as we speak.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thought of this, but what if the characters that are currently mii costumes are characters that Sakarai can't think of a good enough balanced moveset for them.
I would pull the "Sakurai simply just doesn't like them or doesn't want them in the game", but now he said that its fan service from here on out. and adding them as a mii costume also gets them out of the way so he can focus on other characters that are highly requested on the ballot. But I may be wrong and the inklings and King k. Rool are being developed as we speak.
It kind of fits Heihachi's reasoning, as he wouldn't fit in Smash or something, but on the other hand, although he'd be stupidly difficult to balance, Black Knight got a costume despite lack of requests
 

Aetheri

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Firstly, I really dislike the whole "Sakurai is just a troll" mentality, because it works on the assumption that anything can happen even if it goes against what's presented factually, especially when it comes to characters as people look to that as an excuse. Not everything the man does means that he's toying around with the fanbase, sometimes a duck is just a duck.

Secondly, you're right that it's an assumption, but as I said before, it's not like the man is oblivious to what the fans want. He said himself he knew how popular Lucas and Roy were leading up into their confirmation, so he's not unaware of the desires of the fanbase. However, that doesn't mean he will always put in what they want, Chrom was a decently liked character, but he wasn't put in and instead was just given a presence via NPC roles and the Mii Costume. What's to say that the same didn't happen to K. Rool in this case? What if he felt that despite being popular, he decided against him and used the costume as a way to appeal? It wouldn't be the first time a popularly requested character got a role people didn't want for them (Ridley), so it has to be considered that the Mii costume could be a negative here for him.

I'm not saying he's 100% deconfirmed, but I do think that completely ignoring the possibility is being unmindful of what could be the case.
The mindset isn't unwarranted, especially with the additions of some oddball characters such as WFT and ROB sure in hindsight they make sense given what they represent...but at the time of their reveal leaves many fans bewildered...

K Rool doesn't have same issues and/or 'excuses' that both Chrom and Ridley have...plus Sakurai (including the Ice Climbers) has actually gone on record stating his reasoning behind their exclusions...nothing was said about K Rool's costume other than 'we hope you like them' referring to the other costumes added as well...
 

Ura

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I wouldn't group in Isaac with K. Rool. With Isaac at least, Sakurai has shown that he has some idea for a moveset with him as shown with his AT in Brawl. Also, his absence as an AT in this game has to mean something. It's not like Sakurai would just cut him as an AT for no reason. He must have been low priority in the game as a playable character or something.

That's not saying K. Rool's chances are down the drain of course. Just saying.
 

TaRtOoN-Hand94

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Hey does anybody else hope Sakurai will finish the job of bringing back veterans?
Especially the 4 with original move sets?

Like, the next wave of DLC could feature Ivysaur, Squirtle, Wolf and a newcomer (like Isaac, King K. Rool, or Dixie Kong for example),
And the 3rd wave could be finally repaired Ice Climbers, contractually reinstated Snake and maybe the newcomers from the ballot?


Anyone?
 
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JaidynReiman

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Hey does anybody else hope Sakurai will finish the job of bringing back veterans?
Especially the 4 with original move sets?

Like, the next wave of DLC could feature Ivysaur, Squirtle, Wolf and a newcomer (like Isaac, King K. Rool, or Dixie Kong for example),
And the 3rd wave could be finally repaired Ice Climbers, contractually reinstated Snake and maybe the newcomers from the ballot?


Anyone?
No. We've got enough veterans. The only veteran most everyone still wants right now is Wolf for the most part. Odds are slim we'll even get a third wave.
 

Senselessbreak

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Allow me to direct you to my middle finger.

Also, literally the only aspects of Sakurai "changing his mind" you've mentioned are Villager (which is legitimate) and Ryu (which is not legitimate; Sakurai never said "no fighting game characters").

So if I didn't "learn anything" from your post, it's because your post teaches nothing of importance. Hell, all it is is a rant about how people jump to conclusions (both reasonably and unreasonably, but apparently both are worth lumping together to criticize) and end up being wrong. What's the lesson supposed to be? "Don't be too quick to make assumptions because you could possibly be wrong?" NO ****, SHERLOCK.
Sakurai has always been described as a perfectionist, and tough to work at. If you listened to the controversial podcast with Chris Pranger, who lost his job about it, he went into detail and reinforced what we know about Sakurais character.

https://overcast.fm/ DASJvp_0M

Skip to about 11 minutes in

A great TLDR version of the podcast from CuterChihuahua2 states

Well, well, well.... turns out Chris Pranger had some interesting things to say about Sakurai...

One of the first thing he said about him is that he is like Van Gog, cutting off his ear for his art. A true videogame auteur , with insane ideas that have to go along exactly as he envisions them. This doesn't sound so bad... after all, SWERY is a huge auteur, and his games are awesome and he is a pretty cool guy overall. Why is this bad for Sakurai?...

The next thing he mentions: He is impossible to please. Sakurai will overwork his employees while demeaning their efforts. Sakurai's insane expectations can only be matched in his mind. So his fallible employees suffer. Turns out Sakurai is a pretty condescending guy that will stomp on his employees for not being as perfect as he is talking to them in a passive aggressive tone as he reminds them how much of a trash job they do. Huh??? Turns out Sakurai is a narcissistic prick with a stratospherically high opinion of himself? BUT I THOUGH HE WAS A COOL EASYGOING VIDEOGAME FAN LIKE ME!! Who would have thunk? (Me)

The final thing he reveals is way more pathetic. He shares the anecdote of another Nintendo employee (Dan Owsen, I believe) having a smash match against Sakurai. Naturally, Sakurai got trashed. Turns out Dan was using Ness, and guess what? Ness was nerfed to the point of inusability the next game.

What do we learn from this? Well... Sakurai is pretty much a jerk with a huge ego. Talking down to his employees and nerfing characters only to cure his bruised pride.
We barely know the surface of Sakurais character, because we don't work for him, and put up with him. But based on the fact hes changed his mind publically on several occasions, and now we have accounts on how he is, Sakurai is being a bit more clear.

Keep in mind I don't hate Sakurai, as I feel his work pays off
 
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Arcanir

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The mindset isn't unwarranted, especially with the additions of some oddball characters such as WFT and ROB sure in hindsight they make sense given what they represent...but at the time of their reveal leaves many fans bewildered...

K Rool doesn't have same issues and/or 'excuses' that both Chrom and Ridley have...plus Sakurai (including the Ice Climbers) has actually gone on record stating his reasoning behind their exclusions...nothing was said about K Rool's costume other than 'we hope you like them' referring to the other costumes added as well...
WFT and ROB weren't "trolling," there's a difference between doing something unexpected and doing something that messes around with the fans. Neither of those two were the latter case, it was just a choice that caught people by surprise.

And what says that Sakurai doesn't have an "excuse" for K. Rool? We didn't know how he felt about either of those two until he outright said it and the same happened with characters like Heihachi. The absence of evidence is not the proof of absence, as much as I hope that there isn't an excuse and that he'll be playable, that doesn't mean that Sakurai doesn't have his own reasons for excluding him in the scenario where he is not a playable option.

Sakurai has always been described as a perfectionist, and tough to work at. If you listened to the controversial podcast with Chris Pranger, who lost his job about it, he went into detail and reinforced what we know about Sakurais character.

https://overcast.fm/ DASJvp_0M

A great TLDR version of the podcast from CuterChihuahua2 states


We barely know the surface of Sakurais character, because we don't work for him, and put up with him. But based on the fact hes changed his mind publically on several occasions, and now we have accounts on how he is, Sakurai is being a bit more clear.

Keep in mind I don't hate Sakurai, as I feel his work pays off
I wouldn't quote CuterChihuaua2 on that, he has a frothing bias against Sakurai and many in that very thread have pointed out that he manipulated information from the podcast. If you want to accurate quote what Pranger said on the matter, it'd be better to listen to the podcast.
 
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Aetheri

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WFT and ROB weren't "trolling," there's a difference between doing something unexpected and doing something that messes around with the fans. Neither of those two were the latter case, it was just a choice that caught people by surprise.

And what says that Sakurai doesn't have an "excuse" for K. Rool? We didn't know how he felt about either of those two until he outright said it and the same happened with characters like Heihachi. The absence of evidence is not the proof of absence, as much as I hope that there isn't an excuse and that he'll be playable, that doesn't mean that Sakurai doesn't have his own reasons for excluding him in the scenario where he is not a playable option.



I wouldn't quote CuterChihuaua2 on that, he has a frothing bias against Sakurai and many in that very thread have pointed out that he manipulated information from the podcast. If you want to accurate quote what Pranger said on the matter, it'd be better to listen to the podcast.
I never said they were trolling...I said that is where the mindset comes from when Sakurai does what we don't expect...
 
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Hey does anybody else hope Sakurai will finish the job of bringing back veterans?
Especially the 4 with original move sets?

Like, the next wave of DLC could feature Ivysaur, Squirtle, Wolf and a newcomer (like Isaac, King K. Rool, or Dixie Kong for example),
And the 3rd wave could be finally repaired Ice Climbers, contractually reinstated Snake and maybe the newcomers from the ballot?


Anyone?
No. Wolf is enough for me, after him I want Sakurai to focus on newcomers.
 

Senselessbreak

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I wouldn't quote CuterChihuaua2 on that, he has a frothing bias against Sakurai and many in that very thread have pointed out that he manipulated information from the podcast. If you want to accurate quote what Pranger said on the matter, it'd be better to listen to the podcast.
True, the podcast is the best source. Sure CuterChihuaua2 has bias in their tone, but Chris Pranger still had these things to say about Sakurai.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I wouldn't group in Isaac with K. Rool. With Isaac at least, Sakurai has shown that he has some idea for a moveset with him as shown with his AT in Brawl. Also, his absence as an AT in this game has to mean something. It's not like Sakurai would just cut him as an AT for no reason. He must have been low priority in the game as a playable character or something.

That's not saying K. Rool's chances are down the drain of course. Just saying.
Time constraints and the fact Isaac got a new design are also possibilities
 

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Nah K.Rool have a Mii Costume doesn't effect his chances, that sounds dumb,all it tells me is "this is how he'll look if he wins the ballot"

SPEAKING of Mii Costumes though I'd like Ashley Robbins from Trace Memory as a Brawler, I feel sorry for that series, Vincent from Art Academyas a Swordfighter because I want to fight witha paintbrush and Kyle Hyde from Hotel Dusk as a Gunner, the noir detective look would be super cool to have
 

POKEMANSPIKA

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Hey does anybody else hope Sakurai will finish the job of bringing back veterans?
Especially the 4 with original move sets?

Like, the next wave of DLC could feature Ivysaur, Squirtle, Wolf and a newcomer (like Isaac, King K. Rool, or Dixie Kong for example),
And the 3rd wave could be finally repaired Ice Climbers, contractually reinstated Snake and maybe the newcomers from the ballot?


Anyone?
Only want Wolf.

And btw guys, the new Smashified for Isaac is coming out today.
 

TaRtOoN-Hand94

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No. Wolf is enough for me, after him I want Sakurai to focus on newcomers.
No. We've got enough veterans. The only veteran most everyone still wants right now is Wolf for the most part. Odds are slim we'll even get a third wave.
Only want Wolf.

And btw guys, the new Smashified for Isaac is coming out today.
Well we did get 1 unique veteran and 2 semi-clones along with Ryu...
If they have the time for them, who's to say they can't Make time for more? Making DLC means they have more time and resources to focus since they're not making the whole game at once anymore.
Saying yes to a veteran doesn't necessarily Mean saying No to your most wanted newcomer, now does it really?

Edit: Is everyone just saying "No Just Wolf" because everyone else is saying it?
You don't need to narrow your opinions or responses people, this isn't a Fight for just 1 roster slot!
How would you feel if Instead of Wolf, they Just brought back Snake and then canceled the ballot?
It doesn't have to be that way, and we don't need to think that way either!
 
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Well we did get 1 unique veteran and 2 clones along with Ryu...
If they have the time for them, who's to say they can't Make time for more? Making DLC means they have more time and resources to focus since they're not making the whole game at once anymore.
Saying yes to a veteran doesn't necessarily Mean saying No to your most wanted newcomer, now does it really?
Both Lucas and Roy were semi-clones. And I'm not completely against Snake, Squirtle and Ivysaur coming back (ICs won't happen this time), but I still think they should prioritize newcomers over those.

However, I'm against Pichu and especially Young Link coming back.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Kenith.
 
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D

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Sakurai has always been described as a perfectionist, and tough to work at. If you listened to the controversial podcast with Chris Pranger, who lost his job about it, he went into detail and reinforced what we know about Sakurais character.

https://overcast.fm/ DASJvp_0M

Skip to about 11 minutes in

A great TLDR version of the podcast from CuterChihuahua2 states


We barely know the surface of Sakurais character, because we don't work for him, and put up with him. But based on the fact hes changed his mind publically on several occasions, and now we have accounts on how he is, Sakurai is being a bit more clear.

Keep in mind I don't hate Sakurai, as I feel his work pays off
....which has nothing to do with what I was talking about aside from you merely repeating yourself on how he "changed his mind on several occasions".

So far, you've only given me two examples, one of them not being a legitimate one.
And yet I can already name two other legitimate ones off the top my head; Miis (excluded from Brawl for similar reasoning to Villager; added in Smash 4 when he made "does it make sense for them to fight" much less damning to character options) and Pac-Man (envisioned him as his iconic "pizza missing a slice" sprite and questioned how that'd work as a fighter when Miyamoto brought up the idea during Brawl's development; realized Pac-Man had more to work with than he initially believed come Smash 4's development).

And yet these changes reflect different viewpoints within the span of years from development of one project to development of another.

Try naming some more within shorter timespans that actually proves he "changes his mind ALL the time" like you claim. If you can't do it or feel like going off on another tangent that has nothing to do with what I've addressed, don't bother replying.
 

TaRtOoN-Hand94

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Semi-clones. Lucas and Roy are semi-clones. There is a big difference.
You're right, there is. I changed it.
But by that logic is there such thing as a perfect clone?
Ok, according to http://www.ssbwiki.com/Clone yes there is. Well besides the 3 that came with the game, we've gotten 1 unique and 2 semi-clone veterans, why is everyone backing Another semi clone Instead of 2 more uniques?
Especially with the all salty presumption we can't have Both?
 
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POKEMANSPIKA

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Well we did get 1 unique veteran and 2 semi-clones along with Ryu...
If they have the time for them, who's to say they can't Make time for more? Making DLC means they have more time and resources to focus since they're not making the whole game at once anymore.
Saying yes to a veteran doesn't necessarily Mean saying No to your most wanted newcomer, now does it really?

Edit: Is everyone just saying "No Just Wolf" because everyone else is saying it?
You don't need to narrow your opinions or responses people, this isn't a Fight for just 1 roster slot!
How would you feel if Instead of Wolf, they Just brought back Snake and then canceled the ballot?
It doesn't have to be that way, and we don't need to think that way either!
I only expect Wolf, not because everyone else is saying it. I do want Ice Climbers back though.
Here's my reasons why I don't really care for the others to return.

Ivysaur and Squirtle - They were awesome but I don't really think they deserve their own seperate slots as characters.
Snake - He was cool, but I never really felt he fit in with the Smash crew.
Young Link - Toon Link fills his spot, no need for another Link. Yes, he might have masks, but still.
Pichu - Why would I want a weaker Pikachu who hurts himself?
Ice Climbers - I legitimately want them back, but considering how they have technical issues that Sakurai has tried almost everything to fix, I don't see them coming back for Smash 4. They better ****ing be in Smash 5 though.
 

JaidynReiman

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JaidynReiman
Love the render. Would've like to see at least Move or a Djinn, but its very good. I like how he uses a generic sword, because Isaac doesn't have a fancy sword or anything that he uses. There are powerful weapons he can equip, but its not something exclusive to him. Model and pose is very good, and I love Retro Specter's medley.
 
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