Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Untamed]

If we don't get any form of Smash news this year then that would officially be half a year without any Smash news. When you think about that possibility it's a little scary and depressing.

Don't say that lol, I'll get depressed.

 

[Burruni]

I guess I'll try to bring up a topic.

Do you think that any of the Koopalings (specifically ) could get into any installment of Smash? I mean, they're very popular, just not as Smash candidates ATM. They have moveset potential, and have each been in several games. And they're not just exclusive to spin-offs either.

As anything more than Bowser Jr. alts as they are now? No.
Because, even with the base models for them, you are given one of two options:
1) Having 7 variants of the same character. differences at BEST.
2) 7 Mostly-unique newcomer characters for one series. Because it's an all-or-nothing deal for them.

To note, we'd likely see around 15 new characters for Smash 5.

 

[JaidynReiman]

As anything more than Bowser Jr. alts as they are now? No.
Because, even with the base models for them, you are given one of two options:
1) Having 7 variants of the same character. differences at BEST.
2) 7 Mostly-unique newcomer characters for one series. Because it's an all-or-nothing deal for them.

To note, we'd likely see around 15 new characters for Smash 5.

If anything I think we'd see only 10 newcomers, unless they artificially increase that number by having several additional "free dessert."

 

[CodeBlue_]

Since our news drought probably won't end for a while, here's a wall of text for you guys:

DLC kinda works differently than normal speculation. Compared to pre-DLC when Sakurai could add whoever he wanted to (within reason), he now has to make a character that is worth buying. The general rules of Sakurai apply, but new DLC rules apply as well. Be aware this is very similar to a college application: a character that has poor requirements in one category may have enough merits in another to warrant their addition.

Here are some DLC "rules" I think affect a character’s inclusion:

1. They need to be recognizable
This is kind of a given when it comes to buying DLC. If someone isn’t exposed to a character, they have no incentive to buy the character. This is more of a requirement rather than an advantage, however. Being recognizable doesn’t necessarily make someone want to buy a character. The candidate obviously needs substance and charisma of some sort to sell.

2. They need to fill multiple types of player demand or at least a predominant one
This is directly seen through what we consider “popularity” to be. When we look at this category, we see the three different groups that characters are commonly placed in:

Veteran First and Third Parties: Look at the first three characters for DLC. They appealed to the veteran crowd. A lot of Smash players really like to play specific characters and when veterans are cut, players are more than willing to pay for their returning mains as DLC.

Newcomer First Parties: Of course, there’s the crowd that wants newcomers to be added. These tend to split into three groups. The people who REALLY want them in, the people who want them in but probably were/are not as vocal about it, and the people who didn’t know they even wanted the character until one of the other two groups brought it up. All of these players have a high chance of buying a character if they are released.

Newcomer Third Parties: This is very similar to first-party newcomers except there are more general factors to consider (ex. Nintendo’s relationship to a company; see Banjo-Kazooie) and Rule 1 applies to a much stronger degree. Third party characters generally are significantly more popular overall than a majority of potential First Party reps when it comes to popularity. Unless Sakurai wants to take a potential financial gamble with obscure third party IPs (our favorite indie duo, for example?), it seems unlikely that he would settle for less. If you can’t genuinely see a large group of players for the three categories I mention for First Party Newcomers, I wouldn’t bet money on their inclusion.

Appealing to the third group (those who didn't know they wanted the character) is pretty important for this category as well, as many people hardly associate certain third parties to Smash. Ryu is a good example of this.

These are the DLC specific rules, but what about the general rules? Well ask yourself this:

Would Sakurai genuinely find a character a worthy investment to even develop?
Popularity can definitely save a character if they are lacking in this category. It’s possible he his mind for a lot of characters (Bandanna Dee and Isaac seem like potential examples of this) as it has for the Miis and Villager, but we have to be wary that Sakurai may not take certain characters like Toad seriously. DLC of course inflates this issue, because if Sakurai looks at an obscure character and believes they won’t sell, they’re probably out of luck. Note what he says about “fanservice”.


Can he faithfully represent the character?
We all know Ice Climbers are in a really unfavorable position when it comes to DLC. Sakurai has mentioned issues with putting these characters on the 3DS. We also know his reasons for not including Ridley. They may have to change an important aspect of the character to make them work in the game. Sakurai is pretty big on making non-clone characters distinct and have their own niche; he mentions this in his own criterion for Smash characters. If he removes a specific trait from them, it may cause them to lose their character.

Note: Ridley may have also been kept as a boss character for balancing on a casual level. Ridley with gigantic hitboxes would have been a huge problem in Free-For-Alls. Imagine two of them on Battlefield or even most Omegas. It would be a nightmare.

Would the characters be well received in both Japan and the Americas?
These are the two regions Sakurai mentions when talking about character inclusions. Japan is important as Sakurai gets an idea of what’s popular from there (Dark Pit and Lucina come to mind) but the United States is frequently mentioned by Sakurai in interviews. Takamaru is an AT because he doesn’t do well in the west. Little Mac is a character because he is ridiculously popular here.

Having popularity in both regions definitely helps in getting in as a character in general, but an extremely high demand in the West makes a big difference.

Do people like the character as a Smash Bros. character?
Although a lot of players support characters because they’ve played the series, how a game sells does not directly correspond to how popular a character would be. I play and love the Kirby series, but I really wouldn’t support a character other than Bandanna Dee for Smash. A beloved character is very different than a beloved series. pupNapoleon mentioned this in a different context, but characters have to have their own appeal in order to be viable Smash characters.

The Rhythm Heaven fandom is split between a lot of characters and doesn’t have incredibly good support outside of devoted Smash forums like SmashBoards (and even that fanbase is starting to fade). This could be due to majority of Japanese players who bought the game being primarily casual players who may not even play Smash Bros. or this could be due to Rhythm Heaven as a fandom preferring different aspects of the series than their characters.

This is my crude way of evaluating characters for DLC. I’ll try it with some common characters discussed here and see how it works. What do you guys think?

I don't think there's really theory-craft for smash speculation, but why not start now?

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I guess I'll try to bring up a topic.

Do you think that any of the Koopalings (specifically ) could get into any installment of Smash? I mean, they're very popular, just not as Smash candidates ATM. They have moveset potential, and have each been in several games. And they're not just exclusive to spin-offs either.

I doubt it.

Without going into details or the whys and why nots, parts of the DK, Metroid, Zelda, Star Fox, and Kirby fanbases along with the people I'm going to just call representationists (I'm one of those people) care a lot, a lot of them feel like those series and others are neglected in favor of Fire Emblem and/or Kid Icarus, so in a nutshell, that's basically most of the people who'd care. Whether or not that way of thinking is just or not is really up to your opinion .


I don't think Ryu was supposed to promote SFV, there's no reason for them to, seems like more of a coincidence with the timing than anything else.

A bit off topic, but, what do you guys think would happen if none of the popular picks got in (I hope they do, don't get me wrong)? Would Nintendo face severe backlash, possible DDOS attacks, or would people just move on in general?

There would be a lot of .

 

[ErenJager]

[image removed]

 

[Troykv]

I want Anna!!!

I don't care if we have many Fire Emblem Characters, I want Micaiah with all my heart.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Corrin for Master Race! Robin shouldn't be the only playable Avatar in the franchise. And if Ridley can't be playable, then why not a sexy bisexual draconian knight instead?

*snip*

Couldn't have said better myself, mate. Konami can go to the darkest depths of Hell for all I care.

 

[Burruni]

Corrin for Master Race! Robin shouldn't be the only playable Avatar in the franchise. And if Ridley can't be playable, then why not a sexy bisexual draconian knight instead?



Couldn't have said better myself, mate. Konami can go to the darkest depths of Hell for all I care.

are also playable avatars in Smash...

But I really don't get the jump from Ridley to Bi-sho Draco Knight.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

If we're getting dragon that isn't Ridley, it has to be Tiki. Or a dragon Pokemon.

 

[Burruni]

If we're getting dragon that isn't Ridley, it has to be Tiki. Or a dragon Pokemon.

We did get FOUR dragons. Calm down guys.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

are also playable avatars in Smash...

But I really don't get the jump from Ridley to Bi-sho Draco Knight.

I didn't mean those type of avatars, the FE universe ones was more of the type that I implied. There's just something about Corrin vs. Robin that would be too hype (How come not that many fans are doing it?)

Because dragons are awesome and we need more of it. At least Corrin isn't restricted by something silly like "I'm sorry, Ridley's proportions would make him impossible to be playable!". Both of them would be equally as awesome and the latter deserves it the next time (I'm looking at you Mr. Too Big Sakurai).

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Dragons? Landia is the perfect ideal one we need and it doubles as a Kirby's Return to Dreamland rep.

Because dragons are awesome and we need more of it. At least Corrin isn't restricted by something silly like "I'm sorry, Ridley's proportions would make him impossible to be playable!". Both of them would be equally as awesome and the latter deserves it the next time (I'm looking at you Mr. Too Big Sakurai).

Careful dear, you wouldn't want Sakurai to ban Ridley again.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

We did get FOUR dragons. Calm down guys.

That orange thing is actually a fire bird, thank you very much.

 

[Burruni]

That orange thing is actually a fire bird, thank you very much.

That's not a fire bird.

THIS is a fire bird.

is also acceptable.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

That's not a fire bird.

THIS is a fire bird.

is also acceptable.

Well it's certainly no dragon, you can consult the Pokemon games about that.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Well it's certainly no dragon, you can consult the Pokemon games about that.

It's not a bird or dragon. It's a lizard.

 

[Burruni]

Well it's certainly no dragon, you can consult the Pokemon games about that.

"
Egg Groups
Monster and Dragon"

I did.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

"
Egg Groups
Monster and Dragon"

I did.

Ekans, Arbok, Seviper, Scraggy and Scrafty confirmed to be Dragons.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Corrin for Master Race! Robin shouldn't be the only playable Avatar in the franchise. And if Ridley can't be playable, then why not a sexy bisexual draconian knight instead?

And also, you want a character because of your yaoi fantasies? We might as well add Tony and Prince Peasley for the same reason.

 

[Burruni]

Ekans, Arbok, Seviper, Scraggy and Scrafty confirmed to be Dragons.

Exactly. The first three are Wyrms and the latter two are Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragons.

Edit:

And also, you want a character because of your yaoi fantasies? We might as well add Tony and Prince Peasley for the same reason.

I'm actually upset that Prince Peasley never appeared again. You think he'd be in pursuit of Fawful in BiS at least...

 

[pupNapoleon]

That article genuinely angers me. I answered your question regardless. I'm a no-nonsense person when it comes to stuff like this and I'm brash. If you have a problem with it...Either A: Use that lovely Ignore feature, or B: Deal with it. Again, that article angers me to no end

You are welcome to post whatever you want in these forums, within the guidelines. However, act if you are going to carry yourself as a bratty child, and for no reason at all, I will continue to call you out on it, and give the respect that goes along with such behavior. I'm sorry an article bothers you- I'm personally bothered by needless negative energy being projected into the world.

The DLC drought is really taking it's toll on everyone. I'm just really hoping for any kind of official news (that's right official, sorry fake leakers) about DLC characters because we've been waiting way too long for this.

Who knows. Maybe this long drought will mean we will see another multi release like Luroyu? Imagine if there was a direct in December that announces all the DLC characters and all the remaing DLC content and releases them all in the same day? That would totally make the long wait worth it. After all, we got 4 characters in a dev period of 6-7 months so getting another 4 plus some other DLC stuff in a span of another 6-7 months is totally feasible.

Big update coming. BIG. Rasputin's tool in a jar giant.
I cannot see Sakurai having spent a year of his life on just a couple of characters; illogical fallacy.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

And also, you want a character because of your yaoi fantasies? We might as well add Tony and Prince Peasley for the same reason.

Oh please, because it's so wrong to want diversity in the roster (especially in honor of Nintendo's first step into catering towards the LGBT community). So expect many future titles, including Tomodachi Life 3, to follow that suite.

And by the way, Peasley wouldn't be that bad of a character since he's at least a fencer with a magical flying bean for transportation.

I'm actually upset that Prince Peasley never appeared again. You think he'd be in pursuit of Fawful in BiS at least...

Agreed. If there was one thing that was missing in BiS, it was definitely another Peasley vs. Fawful conflict. Aw finkrats.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Well it's certainly no dragon, you can consult the Pokemon games about that.

...You do know Mega Charizard X is Dragon-type, right? And since Megas are essentially the final forms of a Pokemon, that means Charizard is technically a Dragon-type, but cannot permanently become one thanks to how Mega Evolution works as a game mechanic.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh please, because it's so wrong to want diversity in the roster (especially in honor of Nintendo's first step into catering towards the LGBT community). So expect many future titles, including Tomodachi Life 3, to follow that suite.

And by the way, Peasley wouldn't be that bad of a character since he's at least a fencer with a magical flying bean for transportation.

I certainly do not speak for all homosexuals- however, I can say that I would much prefer some equivalent eye candy rather than a character who just happens to be in the LGBT community. Where is my shirtless Ike? Shulk is not comparable to Zero Suit Samus (in general satisfaction at which to look, regarding physical maturity). Give me a Mac somewhere between his Wire Frame and his Tank, and I will be a happier Duke.

As far as Charizard goes, he is a dragon. Do we really need it to be codified? Technically, he is a 'Blaze,' just as Jigglypuff is a 'Balloon.' (Sidenote: please no one ask me to every explain what is a Pokemon Species, because it is an area of the franchise that has never made one bit of sense to me... perhaps it is a poor translation, or perhaps it is an attempt to fit Pokemon into proper categorization for living organisms...yet by any standard, the species of a Pokemon *should* be its namesake).
Charizard may not be a dragon type, or a dragon species, but he is a dragon, damned be the de facto sureness of this observation.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

I certainly do not speak for all homosexuals- however, I can say that I would much prefer some equivalent eye candy rather than a character who just happens to be in the LGBT community. Where is my shirtless Ike? Shulk is to comparable to Zero Suit Samus (in general satisfaction at which to look, regarding physical maturity). Give me a Mac somewhere between his Wire Frame and his Tank, and I will be a happier Duke.

So like the UFC DLC for Dead or Alive 5? Awesome.

And Postman Link needs to be a thing in the next Smash. Kind of sad how we got a janky Skyloft Gear pallet swap over that there TP Sumo Link gear. Now that ought to make the sales go high. *drools*

 

[Burruni]

So like the UFC DLC for Dead or Alive 5? Awesome.

And Postman Link needs to be a thing in the next Smash. Kind of sad how we got a janky Skyloft Gear pallet swap over that there TP Sumo Link gear. Now that ought to make the sales go high. *drools*

Spoiler

Falcon Bulge that does so more than his pecs. Your argument is invalid.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

So like the UFC DLC for Dead or Alive 5? Awesome.

And Postman Link needs to be a thing in the next Smash. Kind of sad how we got a janky Skyloft Gear pallet swap over that there TP Sumo Link gear. Now that ought to make the sales go high. *drools*

No Cia Ganondorf?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who expected Sumo Link when I saw the Shulk outfit. Smash needs to have the equal ratio of fanservice in the future and the best way to begin is starting with the boys. Give us Postman Link, Swimsuit Wario, Pantless Marth, Underwear Captain Falcon, and Shirtless Pit! That way, Smash can have that same balance of eye candy as Tekken and Dead or Alive 5!

I can't believe I said all of that.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Spoiler

Falcon Bulge that does so more than his pecs. Your argument is invalid.

True that, no one can beat the Falcon in terms of sexiness. Which is more of a reason why he needs the Underwear Outfit in the future (Though Blood Falcon was the one who was fully undressed in GX).

No Cia Ganondorf?

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who expected Sumo Link when I saw the Shulk outfit. Smash needs to have the equal ratio of fanservice in the future and the best way to begin is starting with the boys. Give us Postman Link, Swimsuit Wario, Pantless Marth, Underwear Captain Falcon, and Shirtless Pit! That way, Smash can have that same balance of eye candy as Tekken and Dead or Alive 5!

I can't believe I said all of that.

Good good, let the manservice flow through you.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Spoiler

Falcon Bulge that does so more than his pecs. Your argument is invalid.

When did a douchey butterface start to qualify as attractive?

 

[Burruni]

When did a douchey butterface start to qualify as attractive?

Rule of the internet: It's SOMEbody's fetish.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Exactly. The first three are Wyrms and the latter two are Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragons.

I wish there was Poison/Dragon type Mega Arbok and/or Mega Seviper.....

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I was nine years old, I loved Wario so much. I've owned all the merchandise and games. I pray to Wario every night, thanking him for the life I've been given. "Wario is love", I say, "Wario is life."

 

[pupNapoleon]

Rule of the internet: It's SOMEbody's fetish.

Rule of life: the outliers to a situation do not represent the majority.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

...You do know Mega Charizard X is Dragon-type, right? And since Megas are essentially the final forms of a Pokemon, that means Charizard is technically a Dragon-type, but cannot permanently become one thanks to how Mega Evolution works as a game mechanic.

It was a joke, no need to try to insult my Pokemon intelligence. People forever make the "Charizard isn't a dragon" joke. This is not new, people.

 

[Joseppo]

Do you know who happens to be in the Dragon Egg Group? Magikarp.

Magikarp4SmashDLC!

But now seriously, when we think of a dragon to include in Smash, the obvious answer is Ridley (or at least the most recurrent one).

 

[Champ Gold]

Rule of life: the outliers to a situation do not represent the majority.

But after what the Internet told me, all Sonic fans are weird and make bad fanart with questionable things in it and so do Pokemon fans

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm sorry an article bothers you- I'm personally bothered by needless negative energy being projected into the world.

Yet you asked if an article made by the kind of person who yells 'YOU TRANSPHOBIC SCUM' when disagreed at was legitimate...

Seeing this dragontalk begs the question: What would be a cool dragon to add OTHER than Ridley?

 

[Burruni]

Yet you asked if an article made by the kind of person who yells 'YOU TRANSPHOBIC SCUM' when disagreed at was legitimate...

Seeing this dragontalk begs the question: What would be a cool dragon to add OTHER than Ridley?

Tiki.
Dragonite.
(Mega) Sceptile.

 

[FalKoopa]

You guys go on some seriously strange tangents, you know?