Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[IndigoSSB]

It's funny how people turn against characters and games when Smash is involved.
I'm sure before Smash Bros. was a factor "Shovel Knight is awesome! What a great game!"

After Smash it's: "What an undeserving piece of trash! I hate him!"

It's to be expected when people are pushing for their own characters to get in Smash. It's easier to knock other characters down a peg than convincing others of the good points of your character.

 

[Polan]

There will be a day when Shovel Knight will just be forgotten.

The two games I'd look to be the most timeless are Five Nights at Freddy's

FnAF....memorable? I know this thread has nothing but unbridled hate for Shovel Knight but this is just ridiculous.

 

[SmashChu]

I am not the campaign leader for Shovel Knight but it's an outright blunder to compare it to Braid etc. I'm 27, I'm highly in tune with try hard and overhype as I've seen it time and again. The game is a classic and it won't be forgotten by myself, a jaded member of the gaming world, and that's where I base opinion. The game is not successful because it's riding the retro wagon, that does little for me, the game is successful because its fundamentals are so well polished and it is charming and well paced. It doesn't reinvent the wheel by any means but it doesn't falter in delivery of proper gaming elements. Like I said, I don't think he has as much right to a smash slot as many but if he does manage one, it wouldn't be unfair.

You say it wont be forgotten when the game is maybe a year old. Its easy to say that now because no time has passed. But there have been many games like Shovel Knight that have come and gone that it fading would be no different. The advent of Kickstarter makes it worse because the game remains in the public eye for a long while and becomes more hyped.

To see what I mean, let's take a look at what Sean Malstrom, author of Birdmen and the Casual Fallacy, says. Mind you, he was around for the NES days and has a far better understanding of the games back then than most.

The game is very annoying. I’m not having fun with it. The biggest problem is all the mid-points. This gives the developers time to put in more bull****. By bull**** I mean annoyances like the Ninja Gaiden ‘birds knocking you off platforms’ bull****. The people making this game aren’t interested in making a fun game. Throwing around mid-points everywhere followed by Bull**** is not fun. The fact that there are so many mid-points screams ‘not fun design’. If you want an early example of this in the game, go to the second or third stage where the game keeps turning everything dark. You cannot see the platforms or enemies except when lightning flashes for a second or two. What type of bull**** is this? This is 80s obtuseness, not fun game design.

If you are going to make a retro-esque game, get the GOOD stuff from the 80s and not the BAD stuff. The BAD stuff includes the ‘Ninja Gaiden birds knocking you into bottom-less pits’ as well as the 8-bit color palette.

Shovel Knight isn’t an old school game. It is a hardcore game using the ‘fad-of-the-time’ of 8-bit graphics and mechanics. AVOID.

So someone who played games on the NES (and arcades, Atari, Commodore 64, and PC) says the game is not polished and only looks like an oldschool game.

Now lets compare it to Undertale. Undertale looks like an old SNES game, but its not bound to it like Shovel Knight. Take this boss fight HUGE SPOILERS

Spoiler

Before getting to this fight, the game crashes, and the game you load crashes as well before going to the fight. Instead of a pixel-ated boss, you fight a monstrosity. It makes for a really cool fight

The music combines chip-tunes with real instruments, such as this one or this one. Enemy battles have a high amount of detail to them. The point is that appeal of Undertale is the unique battle system, the story and its characters. Shovel Knight appeal is its an old school game. This is why Shovel Knight is not timeless. This, again, is why Sakurai adds characters with history.

 

[A Distant Demon]

You say it wont be forgotten when the game is maybe a year old. Its easy to say that now because no time has passed. But there have been many games like Shovel Knight that have come and gone that it fading would be no different. The advent of Kickstarter makes it worse because the game remains in the public eye for a long while and becomes more hyped.

To see what I mean, let's take a look at what Sean Malstrom, author of Birdmen and the Casual Fallacy, says. Mind you, he was around for the NES days and has a far better understanding of the games back then than most.

The game is very annoying. I’m not having fun with it. The biggest problem is all the mid-points. This gives the developers time to put in more bull****. By bull**** I mean annoyances like the Ninja Gaiden ‘birds knocking you off platforms’ bull****. The people making this game aren’t interested in making a fun game. Throwing around mid-points everywhere followed by Bull**** is not fun. The fact that there are so many mid-points screams ‘not fun design’. If you want an early example of this in the game, go to the second or third stage where the game keeps turning everything dark. You cannot see the platforms or enemies except when lightning flashes for a second or two. What type of bull**** is this? This is 80s obtuseness, not fun game design.

If you are going to make a retro-esque game, get the GOOD stuff from the 80s and not the BAD stuff. The BAD stuff includes the ‘Ninja Gaiden birds knocking you into bottom-less pits’ as well as the 8-bit color palette.

Shovel Knight isn’t an old school game. It is a hardcore game using the ‘fad-of-the-time’ of 8-bit graphics and mechanics. AVOID.

So someone who played games on the NES (and arcades, Atari, Commodore 64, and PC) says the game is not polished and only looks like an oldschool game.

Now lets compare it to Undertale. Undertale looks like an old SNES game, but its not bound to it like Shovel Knight. Take this boss fight HUGE SPOILERS

Spoiler

]Before getting to this fight, the game crashes, and the game you load crashes as well before going to the fight. Instead of a pixel-ated boss, you fight a monstrosity. It makes for a really cool fight

The music combines chip-tunes with real instruments, such as this [redacted] or this one. Enemy battles have a high amount of detail to them. The point is that appeal of Undertale is the unique battle system, the story and its characters. Shovel Knight appeal is its an old school game. This is why Shovel Knight is not timeless. This, again, is why Sakurai adds characters with history.[/spoiler]

1. Spoiler failed.
2. Linking the final boss theme without spoilers is . . .ill-advised.

 

[Champ Gold]

I don't think anyone hear hates Shovel Knight. Hell, I really want to play the game especially when the physical copy drops pretty soon.


But it's more of I don't think the series has done enough for itself to warrant a spot for Smash. Being a great indie title isn't really enough for me. You gotta not only do it once but multiple times, show consistency within that series and be a bigger name for your series.

People try to compare him to the likes of Shulk and others but forget that those franchises are NINTENDO OWNED CHARACTERS AND FRANCHISES.

He's still Third Party and while the company is easy to work with it's still a third party company which whose biggest game featuring the titular character hasn't released in Japan yet.

I don't want it to be another Braid, Fez or any other one note Indie series where it's best game is the first and only the first and is just forgotten. Plus it's not even a Nintendo exclusive series when it's on almost every platform.

No one is hating on the guy or the games but man I don't believe it's something worth for Smash at the moment, let him build and develop into a great franchise instead of forcing him into everything.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But there have been many games like Shovel Knight that have come and gone that it fading would be no different.
Shovel Knight isn’t an old school game. It is a hardcore game using the ‘fad-of-the-time’ of 8-bit graphics and mechanics. AVOID.

So someone who played games on the NES (and arcades, Atari, Commodore 64, and PC) says the game is not polished and only looks like an oldschool game.

Now lets compare it to Undertale. Undertale looks like an old SNES game, but its not bound to it like Shovel Knight
Shovel Knight appeal is its an old school game. This is why Shovel Knight is not timeless. This, again, is why Sakurai adds characters with history.

Did they get the same amount of praise Shovel Knight got?
If Yahtzee Croshaw can like it then it's doing something good. If it isn't fun, how come 10000 people who also played the game disagree? If it gets this much praise, it's doing something right
It's main appeal was how it looks like an old NES game, if you wanted it to be 100% like one, there'd be a lot less content, not to mention having multiple stuff from different NES games mix things up a bit
Totally not biased, not to mention there's a difference between an NES or SNES game, like a platformer and an RPG
I fail to see how this is a problem. It's doing something right, but it's automatically not timeless for not doing anything new? You seem to be forgetting that innovation isn't a valid criticism, especially considering we don't get lots of games like Shovel Knight these days.

And that FNAF comparison was dumb, 2 different genres, a well executed platformer and a horror game that focuses on anticipation as a fear factor. Yahtzee Croshaw mentioned this as 'You know there's a monster behind who's about to say abloogeewoogeewoo but it's not saying it so you want to turn around to check if it's really there but you know that if it is there it'll stick it's **** in your eyes' or something. Sounds kinda like FNAF, despite how the quote was before 2014

 

[Wiley]

That review is as laughable as your 'concrete' prediction of future failure. Neither of us have a crystal ball... I'm speaking from my enjoyment, nothing more. And that is strong enough for me. Its indieness, kick starter background, hype, and retro style played no part in me picking it up and playing it. Sorry but I'm ok with us just disagreeing and moving on. We're entitled to our own opinions.

 

[SmashChu]

1. Spoiler failed.
2. Linking the final boss theme without spoilers is . . .ill-advised.

Its fixed.

Did they get the same amount of praise Shovel Knight got?
If Yahtzee Croshaw can like it then it's doing something good. If it isn't fun, how come 10000 people who also played the game disagree? If it gets this much praise, it's doing something right
It's main appeal was how it looks like an old NES game, if you wanted it to be 100% like one, there'd be a lot less content, not to mention having multiple stuff from different NES games mix things up a bit
Totally not biased, not to mention there's a difference between an NES or SNES game, like a platformer and an RPG
I fail to see how this is a problem. It's doing something right, but it's automatically not timeless for not doing anything new? You seem to be forgetting that innovation isn't a valid criticism, especially considering we don't get lots of games like Shovel Knight these days.

And that FNAF comparison was dumb, 2 different genres, a well executed platformer and a horror game that focuses on anticipation as a fear factor. Yahtzee Croshaw mentioned this as 'You know there's a monster behind who's about to say abloogeewoogeewoo but it's not saying it so you want to turn around to check if it's really there but you know that if it is there it'll stick it's **** in your eyes' or something. Sounds kinda like FNAF, despite how the quote was before 2014

Yahtzee is a poor source because he is a typical indie critic and will likely like Shovel Knight for the same reasons. "OMG, its like an NES game," when those who really knew NES games (Seam Malstrom) said otherwise.

Is Shovel Knight a bad game? Not necessarily. It certainly has flaws that get ignored with folks trying to hype it. Has it done well. Yes, as 700K isn't low? But will the game be timeless. No. Because the game relies on a fad. Its not timeless because it design is based on a set point in time. The fad was to make games that look like NES games, and Shovel Knight is the king of them. But 5 years down the line, folks wont care that it looks like an NES game. The game has nothing else going for it, so how will it be any more remarkable than the rest of the 8-bit indie games, or even old NES games on emulators.

FNaF and Undertale don't have this problem because their appeal is not based on a current fad. FNaF is the best example because it didn't have the hype, and I'd argue its more successful. FNaF is getting a movie and SK isn't. The top search on Youtube for each game have under 900K for Shovel Knight and 40 million for FNaF. Undertale isn't too far off with 555K. While that game may not be as financially successful as SK, its doing all of this solely on word of mouth and the only coverage it gets are on smaller sites. You can like SK all you want but its not the greatest thing since sliced bread as folks make it out to be.

 

[Burruni]

I don't think anyone hear hates Shovel Knight. Hell, I really want to play the game especially when the physical copy drops pretty soon.


But it's more of I don't think the series has done enough for itself to warrant a spot for Smash. Being a great indie title isn't really enough for me. You gotta not only do it once but multiple times, show consistency within that series and be a bigger name for your series.

Just those two bits right next to eachother is a keystone to my point.
It isn't a series, yet.
And we don't truly know if it will be.
I see Yacht Club Games going moreso the way of the Behemoth or to a lesser extent Edmund McMillen than the FNAF route for indie.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just those two bits right next to eachother is a keystone to my point.
It isn't a series, yet.
And we don't truly know if it will be.
I see Yacht Club Games going the way of the Behemoth or to a lesser extent Edmund McMillen than the FNAF route for indie.

Didn't they mention that they'd like to make sequels and spinoffs? Granted, it's better to make sure the company isn't a one trick pony, but Shovel Knight is their Mario, it singlehandedly made them wellknown

 

[Burruni]

Didn't they mention that they'd like to make sequels and spinoffs? Granted, it's better to make sure the company isn't a one trick pony, but Shovel Knight is their Mario, it singlehandedly made them wellknown

"They'd like to."
Not
"They have plans to."
Not
"They are in the process of."

Call it a weird gut instinct, like me calling not being on the main roster but the forefront or DLC because he'd require almost the amount of work of a newcomer to program.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

SmashChu I think that interview is just bunk. He doesn't like the game because it has:
worse graphics
many checkpoints
high difficulty.
take out the checkpoints, add a life system and you pretty much get a retro game, and as someone who can't beat any of the 8-bit Mega Man games, or Super Mario Bros., it's not that hard. Difficult yes, but not what he has made it out to be. Also, your comparison to Undertale is unfair, as it was wasn't meant to be all out retro like Shovel Knight was.

EDIT: (clicks link cuz curiosity) Geez that final boss is creepy!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"They'd like to."
Not
"They have plans to."
Not
"They are in the process of."

Call it a weird gut instinct, like me calling not being on the main roster but the forefront or DLC because he'd require almost the amount of work of a newcomer to program.

I feel like they'd obviously make a sequel due to it's success after getting all the promised stretchgoals done. Then again, Cave Story, one of the most well known indie things, has only ever gotten remakes and stuff after all these years

 

[JaidynReiman]

You say it wont be forgotten when the game is maybe a year old. Its easy to say that now because no time has passed. But there have been many games like Shovel Knight that have come and gone that it fading would be no different. The advent of Kickstarter makes it worse because the game remains in the public eye for a long while and becomes more hyped.

To see what I mean, let's take a look at what Sean Malstrom, author of Birdmen and the Casual Fallacy, says. Mind you, he was around for the NES days and has a far better understanding of the games back then than most.

The game is very annoying. I’m not having fun with it. The biggest problem is all the mid-points. This gives the developers time to put in more bull****. By bull**** I mean annoyances like the Ninja Gaiden ‘birds knocking you off platforms’ bull****. The people making this game aren’t interested in making a fun game. Throwing around mid-points everywhere followed by Bull**** is not fun. The fact that there are so many mid-points screams ‘not fun design’. If you want an early example of this in the game, go to the second or third stage where the game keeps turning everything dark. You cannot see the platforms or enemies except when lightning flashes for a second or two. What type of bull**** is this? This is 80s obtuseness, not fun game design.

If you are going to make a retro-esque game, get the GOOD stuff from the 80s and not the BAD stuff. The BAD stuff includes the ‘Ninja Gaiden birds knocking you into bottom-less pits’ as well as the 8-bit color palette.

Shovel Knight isn’t an old school game. It is a hardcore game using the ‘fad-of-the-time’ of 8-bit graphics and mechanics. AVOID.

So someone who played games on the NES (and arcades, Atari, Commodore 64, and PC) says the game is not polished and only looks like an oldschool game.

Now lets compare it to Undertale. Undertale looks like an old SNES game, but its not bound to it like Shovel Knight. Take this boss fight HUGE SPOILERS

Spoiler

Before getting to this fight, the game crashes, and the game you load crashes as well before going to the fight. Instead of a pixel-ated boss, you fight a monstrosity. It makes for a really cool fight

The music combines chip-tunes with real instruments, such as this one or this one. Enemy battles have a high amount of detail to them. The point is that appeal of Undertale is the unique battle system, the story and its characters. Shovel Knight appeal is its an old school game. This is why Shovel Knight is not timeless. This, again, is why Sakurai adds characters with history.

The funny thing is I didn't think the game was really all that hard. Granted, if it was truly an NES game, it wouldn't have them in the first place, in which case, yeah, it'd be pretty much impossible.


I think you're going a tab BIT overboard on this one, but I do agree, Shovel Knight isn't timeless. In fact... I didn't even "love" the game at all. I thought it was a bit of fun, but it just didn't wow me at all. "Ooh, I can do a pogo jump! Whoop-de-doo."

It doesn't do anything special, its just a generic retro-inspired 2D platformer.

I feel like they'd obviously make a sequel due to it's success after getting all the promised stretchgoals done. Then again, Cave Story, one of the most well known indie things, has only ever gotten remakes and stuff after all these years

The thing is, what can they really do that they haven't done already? If they make a sequel, at this point, I can only see it being more of the same. And even Shovel Knight was just kinda "meh." It was fun, but it wasn't groundbreaking or amazing by any stretch of the imagination. The best part of it for me was the climax of the story, and even then the story isn't that great. It was just an intriguing twist on it.

Spoiler

(Plague of Shadows story is worse, but its somehow more charming since it doesn't try and go out of the way to do something new and original that the main game did.)

Personally, out of anything, I think Plague of Shadows was much more groundbreaking in its gameplay due to how vastly different it feels. I can't really see a direct sequel to Shovel Knight being that new and original, but a spinoff focusing on one of the different knights? That might be more interesting, but then its not "Shovel Knight" anymore.

 

[Wiley]

Again, the game doesn't rely on the fad.

Have you played it?

It would be solid in many styles, the current was an excellent choice of course, but it doesn't define the game for me. Guess you don't want to hear that point though. It's a top notch play through even if it's very much nothing new, but it left a mark on me and I am not a hype fiend or wagoner. If there are others like myself then you have serious holes in your argument, or choose to not hear these views.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The funny thing is I didn't think the game was really all that hard. Granted, if it was truly an NES game, it wouldn't have them in the first place, in which case, yeah, it'd be pretty much impossible.


I think you're going a tab BIT overboard on this one, but I do agree, Shovel Knight isn't timeless. In fact... I didn't even "love" the game at all. I thought it was a bit of fun, but it just didn't wow me at all. "Ooh, I can do a pogo jump! Whoop-de-doo."

It doesn't do anything special, its just a generic retro-inspired 2D platformer.



The thing is, what can they really do that they haven't done already? If they make a sequel, at this point, I can only see it being more of the same. And even Shovel Knight was just kinda "meh." It was fun, but it wasn't groundbreaking or amazing by any stretch of the imagination. The best part of it for me was the climax of the story, and even then the story isn't that great. It was just an intriguing twist on it.

Spoiler

(Plague of Shadows story is worse, but its somehow more charming since it doesn't try and go out of the way to do something new and original that the main game did.)

Personally, out of anything, I think Plague of Shadows was much more groundbreaking in its gameplay due to how vastly different it feels. I can't really see a direct sequel to Shovel Knight being that new and original, but a spinoff focusing on one of the different knights? That might be more interesting, but then its not "Shovel Knight" anymore.

If YCG made a sequel, I can easily see all knights being playable or new knights to play as too. Maybe like how Sonic did it, multiple stories or something

Also, the fact Shovel Knight is STILL being marketed should say something, we've got amiibos and a physical release coming up soon. I think 30 bucks at launch is a very reasonable price for a physical release, what's to say that won't sell well?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Getting characters like Ice Climbers, Mr. G&W, ROB, Duck Hunt, and Wii Fit Trainer over the years reminds me of being a kid at Christmas. My mom used to take our gift requests into consideration, but she liked to buy things we didn't expect, too- she wanted some of our gifts to be a genuine surprise. Since we had an NES and we all loved it, the next logical step would've been for us to get a Super Nintendo. But my mom wanted us to try something different and wanted to surprise us, so she got us a Sega Genesis instead. In other words, we all pretty much knew characters like Rosalina, Little Mac, and Palutena were coming. Pre-Smash4, they all had surges of popularity and successful games. But we don't expect the more unconventional characters because Nintendo needs to surprise us with something. I think there's a lot of value in being genuinely surprised that people don't appreciate enough. Whether or not you like WFT, the yoga motif is at the very least, unique and different from what anyone else in Smash does. Duck Hunt utilizing elements of light gun games for its attacks is very unique. It keeps the game fresh. Sometimes, you get something you appreciate more by not knowing it was what you wanted.

And sometimes you just get Marth III.

 

[JaidynReiman]

If YCG made a sequel, I can easily see all knights being playable or new knights to play as too. Maybe like how Sonic did it, multiple stories or something

Also, the fact Shovel Knight is STILL being marketed should say something, we've got amiibos and a physical release coming up soon. I think 30 bucks at launch is a very reasonable price for a physical release, what's to say that won't sell well?

Its being marketed because honestly they probably wouldn't be able to afford to finish all the content they had planned if they didn't. They needed the retail release and Amiibo just to be able to get everything else complete, because they're not making any money off of the additional content, and they've only sold 700k copies. And that number likely includes the number of people who backed the game and got a free copy already, so that certainly helps.


As for all knights being playable? That'd be very, very difficult to pull off, especially if all of them play totally differently. That'd be almost impossible. It took at least six months just to make Plague Knight playable. If they started him when the original game launched then it took over a year to make him playable, there's no possible way they can make that many knights playable in one game without greatly dumbing down their abilities. And Plague Knight mostly just plays through the exact same stages as Shovel Knight with minor differences, barring his bonus areas and the side missions which are totally different.

 

[pupNapoleon]

My stance on characters is this: As long as we get some fun characters, I couldn't care less about what characters make it or do not make it in the roster. Chances are if a character has not yet gotten in Smash Bros, it's probably because Sakurai either thinks he is unable to make the character work, or he thinks it's a silly idea. I'm not saying that any of the popular characters are silly ideas; in fact, I can see why people would want these particular characters in. However, we as fans have to understand that Sakurai is in charge of choosing characters; not us. The only thing we can do is give Sakurai suggestions and hope he goes through with them. Besides, I'm glad we're not the ones choosing the characters. If all Smash Bros added were popular characters, chances are we might have never known about series like Earthbound, Xenoblade and the like. Obscure Nintendo history is still Nintendo history, guys.

Not to bring up FE again, but its also a valid point for that series. From an unknown series to equal representation to Nintendo powerhous, The Legend of Zelda.

Since you can make any old nonsense up and it won't feel out of character?

I'd disagree when it comes to Wii Fit's sun salutation. The fitness trainer who focuses on using various poses to improve her physical fitness suddenly gains the ability to shoot energy balls due to the tenuous link of the pose mentioning the word 'sun'.

Imagine if someone like Barbara the Bat was suggested to be able to hold multiple objects at once with a move called 'Guitar Pick' due to a the word "pick" in the move. People would laugh at how absurd that was. Only difference is Wii Fit's in the game thus is (mostly) exempt from people criticising some of her more offbeat and nonsensical abilities.

At the end of the day no matter who gets in people will end up heavily defending the character's moveset whilst claiming the character an obvious inclusion or a stroke of genius be that a popular character like K. Rool or someone like Flipnote Frog or Wii News Cat.



Farfetch'd confirmed then.

To jump in on WFT:
Inever saw her as a strange choice (5th best selling Nintendo franchise... should be no surprise after other characters we have seen who have series' of lesser credentials).
As a character based on Yoga, it makes sense that breath would empower her. In sanskritit means, I believe, unity, which comes through the body and the mind in the form of the breath. Yoga is about breathing.

Sun Salutation isnt a stretch- it was a move she was given in order to give her a healthy projectile and to balance the character. It being a cycle used to energize, particularly in the morning, it makes complte sense that she gains energy from it.

Her Final Smash, like most (in my opinion) does not reflect anything new of the character. I would have loved to have seen her pull out through the 4th wall, and have her voice force the characters into puppet like movements of yoga, which she leads them through.

Y'know what we need?
Costume packs for fighters.
Like Wario's Missing Colors
HW alts for the Zelda cast
Dry Bowser
Classic Marth and his chin

You mean, a Dry Bones Mii, a Hyrule Warriors Link, and a classic Littlemac Wireframe Mii?
Why, those are on the way, dear!

If Wario gets another character I think we will see Ashley in the next game. She, Mona, and Jimmy T make the most sense, I think she has the best chance because she was chosen over the others for an AT.

I truly believe it will be Waluigi. I dont care that he isnt, yet, in Wario's game; Sakurai likes Waluigi, Waluigi is an uncomfortable Mario choice without Wario, and nothing in Smash requires sensibility, only a sense of 'rightness.' It is right for Waluigi to be added, and it is right for him to be a part of the series of whom's main character he is the sidekick.

DK is the one most in need from those in my viewpoint, so I'd give it them.

Spoiler: Reasoning

I mean, on one hand you have a fanbase (DK) that's bought over 70 million copies of your games, they got a new stage, and three returning ones, but nothing character wise, on the other hand you've got Fire Emblem that bought around 15-16 million copies, whom got a fully unique character, a clone, a returning veteran (semi-clone) two new stages, and one returning stage. I don't think sales are the end all be all, but it just kind of feels wrong to me that they essentially gave the Fire Emblem fanbase this awesome, super cool, V.I.P. service and this absolutely gigantic fanbase that's partially the reason (Donkey Kong on the Arcade and Country games) Nintendo's so successful gets practically nothing in the character department. I don't know, it just feels kind of mean to the DK fanbase to keep them waiting any longer, not that I don't feel like Metroid and Star Fox are deserving, but I feel like DK being as iconic as it is just really, really needs it at this point.

Out of curiosity, how long do you guys and gals think it is too the next piece of Smash news? A day, a week, two weeks, a month, Smash U's release date, the Holidays, or even later?

Spoiler: Poll

http://strawpoll.me/5742924

Your spoiler hits it right on the head. People all over these boards play the notion that it is not about series representation. Well, despite the fact that Sakurai has already commented on trying to balance out the series, the DK games getting so little content, is equatable to Mario only having its base 4 characters, while everything else in the roster stays the same as it is currently. To say anything else is to be ignorant of what Donkey Kong has done for Nintendo and for video games. Be it Pauline, Junior, Jumpman, Rambi, Dixie, Cranky, K Rool... we are far behind.

 

[Burruni]

I seriously doubt we're seeing indies as DLC or even in Smash 5.

But in this pretty much two-sided situation of candidates, I think we all know where I stand.

Good night cuz it's 3am, sweet Jubileus

 

[Supersmashbrothers.]

Lloyd won't make it in, but if I'm being honest, he has a bigger chance than Shovel Knight. His game (At first) was a Gamecube exclusive. Namco Bandai own the Tales Of Series. They also helped with making Smash. And overall he has a good amount of popularity here, and is HUGE in Japan.

With that being said, I don't see Shovel Knight, nor Lloyd making it in.

 

[Wolfie557]

So, would anyone be upset if Kid Icarus got another fighter but was much more unique compared to Pit and Palutena.

Like Medusa, Hades or even Pyron

I would be VERY happy, since I love Kid Icarus and getting yet another fantastic character playable is highly unklely imo.

If it's Hades, Medusa or Viridi it's fine. Tho I'd like Medusa to get in, first. Simply because I just love her personality more than Hades' and she has been in 2 of the 3 games.

Just Imagine the goddly awesomeness in a match between Palutena, Medusa, Hades & Viridi tho.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

So, would anyone be upset if Kid Icarus got another fighter but was much more unique compared to Pit and Palutena.

Like Medusa, Hades or even Pyron

I would. Taking everything, not just characters, into account, KI is overrepresented, and it shouldn't get any characters as DLC.

 

[Wolfie557]

I would. Taking everything, not just characters, into account, KI is overrepresented, and it shouldn't get any characters as DLC.

I agree there's too many KI enemies in Smash Run, but apart from that KI is fine imho. They don't have too many trophies or items - which are all really good items, my favorite being the back-shield haha.

 

[Supersmashbrothers.]

I would. Taking everything, not just characters, into account, KI is overrepresented, and it shouldn't get any characters as DLC.

KI is underrated. It deserves the representation it got.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I agree there's too many KI enemies in Smash Run, but apart from that KI is fine imho. They don't have too many trophies or items - which are all really good items, my favorite being the back-shield haha.

Yeah, I agree that the amount of trophies is surprisingly small. However, KI is a small series, and it got a lot of new content, and I don't think it should get more, especially characters, as DLC. Maybe next Smash.

KI is underrated. It deserves the representation it got.

It's still a small series. Bigger series such as DK has less representation. And did it really need all those Smash Run enemies? I know they were easy to port because of Uprising but other series had 3DS games as well, yet they didn't get dozens of enemies.

 

[Wolfie557]

Yeah, I agree that the amount of trophies is surprisingly small. However, KI is a small series, and it got a lot of new content, and I don't think it should get more, especially characters, as DLC. Maybe next Smash.

I understand your view completely, but characters from Kid Icarus can bring so much fun since their movesets would all have thier own style I feel.

As long as a character is fun there shouldn't be a problem in the end. I think there will be a character added in by Smash5 anyway but I don't see

Dark Pit barely counts as a rep, I see KI being part of franchises like Metroid, DK or Starfox. I would feel the same for Metroid if for example Dark Samus was a last-minute clone like Pittoo. Unlike Kirby, KI doesn't have it's main trio in yet, and we all know from the obvious BS in smash run it's one of his most loved babies now.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I understand your view completely, but characters from Kid Icarus can bring so much fun since their movesets would all have thier own style I feel.

As long as a character is fun there shouldn't be a problem in the end. I think there will be a character added in by Smash5 anyway but I don't see

Dark Pit barely counts as a rep, I see KI being part of franchises like Metroid, DK or Starfox. I would feel the same for Metroid if for example Dark Samus was a last-minute clone like Pittoo. Unlike Kirby, KI doesn't have it's main trio in yet, and we all know from the obvious BS in smash run it's one of his most loved babies now.

I think two reps is fine for KI at this point. I know KI's characters could bring fun, but so can many other series' characters.

I agree that DP barely counts as a rep. He and Pit have so few differences that I don't know was there any point to separate him from Pit.

Difference between KI and other three you mentioned is that the other three have more games and are more well-known. KI has three games and it isn't definite that the franchise will continue after Uprising. They should have more characters than KI.

 

[pmilkosky]

FnAF....memorable?

You might not like it, but there's PLENTY more people who absolutely adore the series. (I don't like it myself if you cared for my opinion)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Series don't necessarily get characters based on their size.

Sure, Mario and other series will because they're huge. But other series likely rely more on unique/popular characters. Fire Emblem would only have 3 if it wasn't for clones and DLC. Plus, Roy plays entirely different from Marth. So I don't really get why people still argue that he's a "clone". He's about as much a clone as Falco, Luigi or Ganondorf. Leave him alone.

 

[NintenZ]

Shovel Knight just doesn't seem realistic, there are other 3rd party characters that have been around for much longer and deserve to be in Smash more than him. Why should he be included now? Heck, his localization hasn't even been finished for the Japanese audiences, so he should have more games and more publicity before he's in Smash, including him now would effect Nintendo negatively in both reception and sales.

 

[PKFreeze89]

Stuff like this makes me regret making an account here.

People have different opinions, y'know

 

[Schnee117]

People have different opinions, y'know

It's not your opinion that's the problem. Rather it's how you've worded it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Not to bring up FE again, but its also a valid point for that series. From an unknown series to equal representation to Nintendo powerhous, The Legend of Zelda.

This. . .simply is not true.

FE has 3.5 unique movesets and 1.5 clones (roy is a weird case)
LoZ has 3.5 unique movesets and 1.5 clones ( I could argue that LoZ has the advantage here because Ganon and Toon link are more unique than Roy/Lucina)

but here is the kicker.
FE has 0 items
LoZ has, I believe, 7

FE has 1 AT
LoZ has 4

FE has 3 stages. (2 of which are super generic)
LoZ has 7

I hate every single representation argument to no end, but there is a hell of a lot more to representation then just characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Prediction based on what everyone is saying: we are getting Wolf, Shovel Knight and Inkling.

Y / N ?

Btw, I want it to be King K.Rool, Isaac and Wolf.

 

[IndigoSSB]

Prediction based on what everyone is saying: we are getting Wolf, Shovel Knight and Inkling.

Y / N ?

Btw, I want it to be King K.Rool, Isaac and Wolf.

Wolf and Inklings seem more plausible, especially since Nintendo would benefit from either character making it.

I'm not sure how you predicted Shovel Knight based on this thread, a lot of people have been doubting his chances to get in. His biggest obstacle for getting in, besides the disadvantages all indie characters share, is his lack of popularity in Japan. The game's being released there soon, but until then he'll remain rather obscure in Japan.

King K. Rool probably has a better chance than Shovel Knight by a significant margin simply because of popularity and Nintendo affiliations. Isaac has less of a chance, but he's one of the front running characters in the ballot imo.

 

[Troykv]

Reps repping reps for the rep's sale... I just want Micaiah 4 Smash 3:

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ima just say that I think indies in general are going to have to prove themselves to get into Smash. I honestly don't think any indies are going to get in to Smash just yet.

3rd parties, as I and others have said, need history to go along with them. That fact alone strips the competition down dramatically.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Its being marketed because honestly they probably wouldn't be able to afford to finish all the content they had planned if they didn't. They needed the retail release and Amiibo just to be able to get everything else complete, because they're not making any money off of the additional content, and they've only sold 700k copies. And that number likely includes the number of people who backed the game and got a free copy already, so that certainly helps.


As for all knights being playable? That'd be very, very difficult to pull off, especially if all of them play totally differently. That'd be almost impossible. It took at least six months just to make Plague Knight playable. If they started him when the original game launched then it took over a year to make him playable, there's no possible way they can make that many knights playable in one game without greatly dumbing down their abilities. And Plague Knight mostly just plays through the exact same stages as Shovel Knight with minor differences, barring his bonus areas and the side missions which are totally different.

Actually, weren't handheld versions getting a Battle mode with all knights including Shield Knight?

 

[Wolfie557]

Ima just say that I think indies in general are going to have to prove themselves to get into Smash. I honestly don't think any indies are going to get in to Smash just yet.

3rd parties, as I and others have said, need history to go along with them. That fact alone strips the competition down dramatically.

I only believe Shantae has a chance. She has a pretty long history with Nintendo. Wayforward knows this which is why they have been pushing her so hard.

However, I also believe Shantae's chances are smaller than many 3rd parties. Actually, I think she should be the only Indie until more prove themselves to her standard.