Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Koopaul]

I'd rather have DP than having him an alt with no other extra character.

Not me. Dark Pit added nothing to my game but make the CSS look bigger with characters nobody wanted.

 

[The Light Music Club]

How is DLC costlier and riskier than amiibo? And Shovel Knight is far from being a failing franchise.

Nintendo has to use time and money for the DLC, YCG is doing all that for the amiibo

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Hey bud, how's Chibi Robo doing?

Smooth Criminal

Well if sarcasm was your intent, at least Chibi Robo is an established franchise that's had 4 games by now, plus one new one coming up here shortly that's being advertised quite heavily by Nintendo. Nice try.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Chibi has an amiibo Nintendo is actually willing to sink their own money into. So yeah. Cheebs is doing quite well by now, thanks for asking!

 

[Champ Gold]

Again, how many quality, non-port Metal Gear Solid games did Nintendo get when Snake was in Brawl?

And do I need to mention that Street Fighter V isn't on the Wii U?

SFV being PS4 exclusive isn't a problem to anyone here.

Street Fighter as a franchise is a series that has been on every system known to man. Originally SF2 would be console exclusive to SNES until Special Championship Edition came out on the Sega Genesis. It's also been on PS1, GBC, Saturn, Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox, GBA, Wii, PSP, 360, PS3, 3DS and Vita. And including all the spinoffs Ryu was in there's also GC, PS2, Xbox, GBA, DS, PSP, Wii, 360, PS3, 3DS and all on PC.

Ryu and his franchise has closer ties to Nintendo than Snake and Metal Gear but the latter was due to Konami sucking so much in that regard.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

First time in the States. It's apparently faltering overseas, too.

So, uh, yeah.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Skyblade12]

Another question on Shovel Knight:
If his game had released five years ago, how much of his support base would vanish?

Or, in other words, if another ballot was started for more DLC (or Smash 5) five years from now, how many people would still suggest him?

Shovel Knight is at the height of his popularity right now, and will probably only fall from here. He had a great release at just the right time to push him into the spotlight for speculation. But does he have staying power? Despite heavy critical acclaim from previews, I don't hear nearly the buzz about Plague of Shadows as I did about the original game in the lead up to its release.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he'd have just as dedicated a core fan base as any other character. But all the bandwagon riders would have evaporated. Shovel Knight still has a lot to prove.

 

[GreenKirby]

Again? Didn't see you mention this the first time. Konami is Konami, so if you expect them to do any competent you're just going to be disappointed

Well then, unlike Scoliosis Jones, I disagree that Snake should be included. Because his parent company all but phsycally ***ed over Nintendo. And it's not like Kojima himself ever stood by his statements of wanting to develop a game for Nintendo. Clearly, a company's relationship to Nintendo matters. Hence why we Sonic (where SEGA and Nintendo pretty much has an intertwined history) instead of Rayman (where Ubisoft threw Nintendo under the bus)

 

[A Distant Demon]

Not me. Dark Pit added nothing to my game but make the CSS look bigger with characters nobody wanted.

Dark pit and lucina supporter signing in.

People love customization. Except in smash where people want less options.

 

[JaidynReiman]

How is DLC costlier and riskier than amiibo? And Shovel Knight is far from being a failing franchise.

Because Nintendo only needs to license the name and tech. Nintendo doesn't pay a DIME on the Amiibo, Yacht Club does that. For a Smash character, Sakurai has to 100% do everything himself (he and his team). He and his whole team have to get paid to produce characters. Yacht Club is producing the Amiibo entirely on their own, Nintendo just allowed them to make it.


Of COURSE the Amiibo is the far easier and cheaper option.

 

[Polan]

Nintendo has to use time and money for the DLC, YCG is doing all that for the amiibo

* Bandai Namco. Nintendo isn't developing Smash in house.

 

[NintenZ]

Well, if the outcome is resulted from rumors, we'll know Ryu was the only character not decided from fan response.

 

[Skyblade12]

Well, if the outcome is resulted from rumors, we'll know Ryu was the only character not decided from fan response.

If the outcome was resulted from rumors, we'd have Chrom and the Chorus Kids, though.

 

[JaidynReiman]

* Bandai Namco. Nintendo isn't developing Smash in house.

Doesn't matter. If Namco is doing the DLC, Nintendo still has to pay THEM to do it. They're not paying a dime for the Shovel Knight Amiibo, they only exhausted a bit of time discussing and approving production, but they're still not producing it. Nintendo has to pay Namco to produce Smash Bros.

 

[GreenKirby]

And since Nintendo is putting up the funding, Namco isn't just going to run buck wild and add the likes of Klonoa, Lloyd, or Jin. That would be financial suicide for both parties.

Which all leads back to my point of finance and returns. The popular, and even not as popular, Nintendo characters should get very higher priority over everyone else. Nintendo is a company. They're going to look at the cost returns

 

[Arcanir]

The fact the second side came out of no where is what I'm getting at. Ridley was requested since melee, people only started saying 'too big' after Brawl iirc

Though it did get more notoriety after Brawl's release and he was a boss, the "too big" thing wasn't that uncommon back in speculation for it. I still remember seeing some debates over his size popping up at times.

 

[Koopaul]

Dark pit and lucina supporter signing in.

People love customization. Except in smash where people want less options.

Then that must mean you'd want a clone of EVERY character. Afterall, should only Pit, Marth, and Mario be the only ones with clone? That's not fair! Give em all clones! We could have a CSS of 100 characters, the icons would be so small we couldnt even see them! Wouldnt that be great? *sarcasm*

Are we forgetting we can customize any character now? Remember that equipment is a thing? If customization is the only reason you want clones then I'm afraid to say that clones are obsolete.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well if sarcasm was your intent, at least Chibi Robo is an established franchise that's had 4 games by now, plus one new one coming up here shortly that's being advertised quite heavily by Nintendo. Nice try.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Chibi has an amiibo Nintendo is actually willing to sink their own money into. So yeah. Cheebs is doing quite well by now, thanks for asking!

Er...Ziplash releases in a few days and Nintendo barely advertised it. They also said that if Ziplash doesn't sell well enough it'll get killed off. I wouldn't call that 'doing well'

 

[A Distant Demon]

Then that must mean you'd want a clone of EVERY character. Afterall, should only Pit, Marth, and Mario be the only ones with clone? That's not fair! Give em all clones! We could have a CSS of 100 characters, the icons would be so small we couldnt even see them! Wouldnt that be great? *sarcasm*

Are we forgetting we can customize any character now? Remember that equipment is a thing? If customization is the only reason you want clones then I'm afraid to say that clones are obsolete.

Nice slippery slope fallacy there mate. But yes I wouldn't mind clones of every character.

Custom equipment can't turn off tippers, give me an electroshock arm Change arrows or make my character change to be a completely different character i prefer with a fraction of the work.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then that must mean you'd want a clone of EVERY character. Afterall, should only Pit, Marth, and Mario be the only ones with clone? That's not fair! Give em all clones! We could have a CSS of 100 characters, the icons would be so small we couldnt even see them! Wouldnt that be great? *sarcasm*

Are we forgetting we can customize any character now? Remember that equipment is a thing? If customization is the only reason you want clones then I'm afraid to say that clones are obsolete.

Can we have semi clones of everyone instead? I don't remember a semi clone being dull to play as

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Can we have semi clones of everyone instead? I don't remember a semi clone being dull to play as

How would a semi-clone of Doctor Mario be different?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

How would a semi-clone of Doctor Mario be different?

He becomes good again

 

[GreenKirby]

Though it did get more notoriety after Brawl's release and he was a boss, the "too big" thing wasn't that uncommon back in speculation for it. I still remember seeing some debates over his size popping up at times.

I never did get Sakurai's excuse.

I doubt Ridley fans care that Smash should keep the complete viciousness of the dragon. They just want to play as him even if he was the size of Samus herself. And if that somehow makes him "less vicious" they'll be more than happy to live with that. (And the less I say about Sakurai's hypocrisy about keeping characters in character the better)

As for clones, I don't hate clones. In fact, with a few exceptions, I welcome them with open arms. But Dark Pit was honestly just.... no. Just no. He's so similar to Pit, they share a subforum. Might as well be an alt costume.

 

[NintenZ]

If the outcome was resulted from rumors, we'd have Chrom and the Chorus Kids, though.

Those rumors were true, but outdated.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yes, Dark Pit was easy to make, but the problem we have to question is: why was he made in the first place? Like, what point is there? His differences to Pit are negligible. There's literally no reason for them to be separate characters, especially when the argument comes down to "Dark Pit can't use the Three Sacred Treasures!" even though none of the Koopalings ever became Shadow Mario. Its simply a pointless excuse, almost as if he was only included so the roster would look a bit larger and he can fill out a slot for another unlockable character to make it seem bigger. They should've just made more existing characters unlockable instead.

Those rumors were true, but outdated.

Except we have zero evidence or proof this is the case whatsoever.

 

[Burruni]

Both Shovel Knight and Shantae namely hinge on the decision of choosing an indie, at which point the two are the name contenders for that position.

IF this situation happens (which I doubt), I prefer Shantae by a wide margin and part of that likely is bias of prefering her titles.

But I have one major point against Butt Butt that can't be refuted yet: Quote & Cave Story.

By that, I don't mean Quote being an end-all be-all for an indie choice despite him being one of the most iconic indie games, arguably started the "revolution" to their notice and its remakes for Nintendo.

I'm talking about it being such an iconic and wildly popular game which first came to us over a decade ago and has gotten nothing besides two remakes. By this I mean practically 1-1 remakes like Super Mario All-Stars or Ocarina of Time 3DS. No real expansion, just update the graphics, tweak little bits here and there, and move on. Shovel Knight is a game not a series right now and one that has been in a cycle or rereleases on just about every platform available (with exclusive bosses tossed about hither and tither) since its release just now coming back around to Nintendo with the amiibo and the expansion of Plagues of Shadows.

Nobody knows how it's going to go from here, if YCG doesn't go on to other titles with callbacks akin to how The Behemoth has jumped fom Alien Hominid to Castle Crashers to BattleBlock Theater to "Game 4." None of these being bad games, mind you, but no series.

Even excluding the GB game on the grounds of it being Capcom's work, Wayforward has given Shantae one of the few iconic games amongst E-Shop titles, a strong 3DS/WiiU title now seeing eastern shores, and another major game going multi-plat coming later this year (by the latest update of the team, which was less than a month ago).

I could try to make a claim that WF would make a Shantae Amiibo for Half-Genie Hero, but that's speculation. Just looking at what we have at hand, I feel that you can call Shantae a series. Shovel Knight stands as a very succesful game.

 

[NintenZ]

Yes, Dark Pit was easy to make, but the problem we have to question is: why was he made in the first place? Like, what point is there? His differences to Pit are negligible. There's literally no reason for them to be separate characters, especially when the argument comes down to "Dark Pit can't use the Three Sacred Treasures!" even though none of the Koopalings ever became Shadow Mario. Its simply a pointless excuse, almost as if he was only included so the roster would look a bit larger and he can fill out a slot for another unlockable character to make it seem bigger. They should've just made more existing characters unlockable instead.




Except we have zero evidence or proof this is the case whatsoever.

It seems most likely that that's the case, in the files is a directory for a Rythym Heaven character, and PushDustIn may have found that Chrom was originally planned.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Both Shovel Knight and Shantae namely hinge on the decision of choosing an indie, at which point the two are the name contenders for that position.

IF this situation happens (which I doubt), I prefer Shantae by a wide margin and part of that likely is bias of prefering her titles.

But I have one major point against Butt Butt that can't be refuted yet: Quote & Cave Story.

By that, I don't mean Quote being an end-all be-all for an indie choice despite him being one of the most iconic indie games, arguably started the "revolution" to their notice and its remakes for Nintendo.

I'm talking about it being such an iconic and wildly popular game which first came to us over a decade ago and has gotten nothing besides two remakes. By this I mean practically 1-1 remakes like Super Mario All-Stars or Ocarina of Time 3DS. No real expansion, just update the graphics, tweak little bits here and there, and move on. Shovel Knight is a game not a series right now and one that has been in a cycle or rereleases on just about every platform available (with exclusive bosses tossed about hither and tither) since its release just now coming back around to Nintendo with the amiibo and the expansion of Plagues of Shadows.

Nobody knows how it's going to go from here, if YCG doesn't go on to other titles with callbacks akin to how The Behemoth has jumped fom Alien Hominid to Castle Crashers to BattleBlock Theater to "Game 4." None of these being bad games, mind you, but no series.

Even excluding the GB game on the grounds of it being Capcom's work, Wayforward has given Shantae one of the few iconic games amongst E-Shop titles, a strong 3DS/WiiU title now seeing eastern shores, and another major game going multi-plat coming later this year (by the latest update of the team, which was less than a month ago).

I could try to make a claim that WF would make a Shantae Amiibo for Half-Genie Hero, but that's speculation. Just looking at what we have at hand, I feel that you can call Shantae a series. Shovel Knight stands as a very succesful game.

To be fair, YCG said they wanted to make sequels in the kickstarter iirc

 

[LIQUID12A]

It seems most likely that that's the case, in the files is a directory for a Rythym Heaven character, and PushDustIn may have found that Chrom was originally planned.

A Rhythm Heaven symbol does not necessarily equate character. Elektroplankton had an emblem in Brawl for the Hanenbow stage but no character.

 

[Burruni]

It seems most likely that that's the case, in the files is a directory for a Rythym Heaven character, and PushDustIn may have found that Chrom was originally planned.

No.
There's files for a Rhythm Heaven EMBLEM.
That could go for a fighter, stage, or even just special signification for how its trophies and music come up.
Sakurai has gone on record to say that Chrom was CONSIDERED but replaced with Robin.

Edit:

To be fair, YCG said they wanted to make sequels in the kickstarter iirc

Said they wanted to =/= Are going to.

It's hopeful, but not certain. My grounds is that there is not, presently, a series or hard confirmation that it is going to be.

 

[Koopaul]

Nice slippery slope fallacy there mate. But yes I wouldn't mind clones of every character.

Custom equipment can't turn off tippers, give me an electroshock arm Change arrows or make my character change to be a completely different character i prefer with a fraction of the work.

Seems like a silly reason to justify a character.

Why not just have Electroshock Arm and Charge Arrows be a custom move for Pit.

I say they should have spent that extra time making more custom moves for characters instead of making those clones.

 

[NintenZ]

A Rhythm Heaven symbol does not equate character. Elektroplankton had an emblem in Brawl but no character.

Could you please stop getting into arguements with me every time my mouth (or keyboard) is opened? It most likely was for both a stage and a character, in fact, Chorus Kids even cameo as a trophy in the 3DS version of the game.

No.
There's files for a Rhythm Heaven EMBLEM.
That could go for a fighter, stage, or even just special signification for how its trophies and music come up.
Sakurai has gone on record to say that Chrom was CONSIDERED but replaced with Robin.

Edit:
Said they wanted to =/= Are going to.

It's hopeful, but not certain. My grounds is that there is not, presently, a series or hard confirmation that it is going to be.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Seems like a silly reason to justify a character.

Why not just have Electroshock Arm and Charge Arrows be a custom move for Pit.

I say they should have spent that extra time making more custom moves for characters instead of making those clones.

First of all, the three Treasures you get in KI1 would have been cool customs. Second, it's already ****ing tedious to unlock em and you want MORE?!?!

 

[LIQUID12A]

Could you please stop getting into arguements with me every time my mouth (or keyboard) is opened?

With all due respect, I'm hardly the only one who argues with you when you write things.

It most likely was for both a stage and a character, in fact, Chorus Kids even cameo as a trophy in the 3DS version of the game.

We don't know this. There hasn't been a single explanation, so it's really unfounded as far as we know.

 

[Skyblade12]

Could you please stop getting into arguements with me every time my mouth (or keyboard) is opened? It most likely was for both a stage and a character, in fact, Chorus Kids even cameo as a trophy in the 3DS version of the game.

I will stop arguing as soon as you stop making unfounded assumptions.

"It most likely was for both a stage or character". Provide ANY evidence for this, please.

Yes, Chorus Kids are a trophy. So is Skull Kid. Does that mean he was considered to be playable? No.

 

[NintenZ]

With all due respect, I'm hardly the only one who argues with you when you write things.

It was probably, there, I'm sorry. I'm just speculating, I need to be more specific. From now on I'll be 100% factful and specific.

I will stop arguing as soon as you stop making unfounded assumptions.

"It most likely was for both a stage or character". Provide ANY evidence for this, please.

Yes, Chorus Kids are a trophy. So is Skull Kid. Does that mean he was considered to be playable? No.

Ok, I appologized.

 

[Burruni]

Remember when having a trophy in the game meant that you WEREN'T a fighter?

 

[NintenZ]

Remember when having a trophy in the game meant that you WEREN'T a fighter?

True, things can change, but I doubt Choir Boys will be playable for the same reason as Ice Climbers.

 

[The Light Music Club]

* Bandai Namco. Nintendo isn't developing Smash in house.

Yes but they are still employing people to do it, and have to pay for it. Getting the rights for characters, distribution of the game/DLC, etc. For the amiibo they sold YGC the rights to use it, they aren't paying people.

 

[NintenZ]

I wonder, does Monolith Soft have any involvement with the development of fighters and the game besides ?

 

[Skyblade12]

Those rumors were true, but outdated.

Also, assuming you are correct here (which is s big assumption):

How is the current rumor any different?

We got a rumor of Shovel Knight coming to Smash, and even a day given for it, with the original leaker saying "enjoy the Shovel Knight announcement"... And the actual info turned out to be completely different. And some people still clung to the remnants of the leak/rumor to the end, and the Chorus Kids and Chrom never made it in.

Maybe the "Shovel Knight is in Smash" rumor is "outdated" as well.