Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Skyblade12]

I'm only trying to find reasons for why they'd choose these characters, tbph there has to be reasons as to why they'd do these things.

It's easy to find reasons why they'd include ANY character. There are 720 Pokemon, and I can give you reasons why a lot of them should be in the game.

Finding reasons that make it worthwhile for the series, for the company, and that earn them a spot over other characters is much harder.

 

[NintenZ]

It's easy to find reasons why they'd include ANY character. There are 720 Pokemon, and I can give you reasons why a lot of them should be in the game.

Finding reasons that make it worthwhile for the series, for the company, and that earn them a spot over other characters is much harder.

It is, but there are ways.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I actually find the "that doesn't make sense" viewpoint pretty funny.
You know what else doesn't make sense? The inclusion of Dark Pit, the removal of Break the Targets, and Smash Tour.
This is Sakurai were're talking about. Sense is thrown out the window.

Dark Pit's inclusion makes sense though since he had extra time to make him his own character. I'd rather have DP than having him an alt with no other extra character.

The real question is, what happened to Board the Platforms, Race to the Finish, and Polygons/Wire frames?

 

[NintenZ]

Indies seem to be very popular, so I can definitely see them being added at some point. It could be a good kind of experiment.

 

[Polan]

Since everybody in this thread seems to ADORE indie characters...
Sans and Papyrus for Smash 4 DLC.

 

[NintenZ]

Since everybody in this thread seems to ADORE indie characters...
Sans and Papyrus for Smash 4 DLC.

Actually, everyone here with a few exceptions (Like me) are very negative about indies.

 

[Schnee117]

Actually, everyone here with a few exceptions (Like me) are very negative about indies.

Hence why they capitalised "ADORE" to show sarcasm.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Since everybody in this thread seems to ADORE indie characters...
Sans and Papyrus for Smash 4 DLC.

Although I've yet to hear any complaints about this game and I want to try it myself, there's a sliiiiight problem. Last time I checked Undertale has no Nintendo release. Not to mention the Ballot's closing anyway

 

[NintenZ]

Hence why they capitalised "ADORES" to show sarcasm.

Sorry, I couldn't tell.

 

[Skyblade12]

Indies seem to be very popular, so I can definitely see them being added at some point. It could be a good kind of experiment.

You don't experiment with something that will cost you significantly if it will fail. It's why games have franchises, and new IP are few and far between. If an experiment fails that you've invested heavily in, you get hurt bad.

Letting Yacht Club make an amiibo? Good experiment. Low risk, high potential reward. Making Shovel Knight an in-game character? Bad experiment. High risk (if the character or IP fails, or even just fails internationally) low potential reward (since profits would be split with Yacht Club).

 

[NintenZ]

You don't experiment with something that will cost you significantly if it will fail. It's why games have franchises, and new IP are few and far between. If an experiment fails that you've invested heavily in, you get hurt bad.

Letting Yacht Club make an amiibo? Good experiment. Low risk, high potential reward. Making Shovel Knight an in-game character? Bad experiment. High risk (if the character or IP fails, or even just fails internationally) low potential reward (since profits would be split with Yacht Club).

That is true, hm...

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

It's easy to find reasons why they'd include ANY character. There are 720 Pokemon, and I can give you reasons why a lot of them should be in the game.

Finding reasons that make it worthwhile for the series, for the company, and that earn them a spot over other characters is much harder.

In my opinion, I would happy with a generation diverse Smash roster for Pokemon. I don't think it would be a good idea to just have Generation 1 take up the whole roster.

On Indies, I don't hate them, but I would put characters from Nintendo and larger third-parties that didn't get into this Smash iteration, first.

 

[Kenith]

In my opinion, I would happy with a generation diverse Smash roster for Pokemon. I don't think it would be a good idea to just have Generation 1 take up the whole roster.

Gen 1 is leaps and bounds more famous than anything that came after, save a select few Pokemon from Gens 2, 3, and 4.
The biggest Pokemon outside of Gen 1 is probably Lucario...who is in Smash.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Shovel Knight and Shantae are highly wanted? Not more than Snake.

Snake is easily the most wanted 3rd party. He's deserving. That latest bit from Source gaming confirms a chunk of what we've discussed. Nintendo relations are seemingly a courtesy, not a necessity.

Snake is easily Top 5-6 material in votes. He will likely outrank numerous other 3rd party choices. He meets every requirement.

Nintendo would just have to agree to including him.

 

[Skyblade12]

Shovel Knight and Shantae are highly wanted? Not more than Snake.

Snake is easily the most wanted 3rd party. He's deserving. That latest bit from Source gaming confirms a chunk of what we've discussed. Nintendo relations are seemingly a courtesy, not a necessity.

Snake is easily Top 5-6 material in votes. He will likely outrank numerous other 3rd party choices. He meets every requirement.

Nintendo would just have to agree to including him.

And Sakurai and Konami would have to agree as well.

While Konami will gladly sell out their franchises for a quick buck, Sakurai may not be willing to work with them after what they did to his friend (and his friend's franchise).

Nintendo also might not want to associate with Konami after the massive bad press they've been getting recently. Even in Japanese media, Konami has been being slammed. Plus, they haven't done a lot for Nintendo lately.

I wouldn't object to Snake (or any other veteran), but I think there's a reason he wasn't in at launch. And I think there have only been more reasons not to include him added since.

 

[GreenKirby]

Indies seem to be very popular, so I can definitely see them being added at some point. It could be a good kind of experiment.

No it wouldn't. The royalty fees alone wouldn't be worth it.

Look at it this way: Here are the top 10 most popular character discussion threads, reply wise, on this site in order:

Ridley
King K.Rool
Bandana Dee
Isaac
Rayman
Krystal
Wolf
Snake
Shante
Daisy

For humor's sake, assume that this translates into the actual ballot rank. The top four have the advantage of being the most popular and being 100% owned by Nintendo. And overall, only 3 out of the 10 are 3rd party IPs. Why take a bigger risk on an IP you don't even own that's not as popular when you have a lower risk/high reward ratio on characters you own fully (the exception being Snake because his coding can be ported from Brawl)?

Not only would it be a waste of resources, but it would be seen as a spit in the face to the fans of the more popular Nintendo characters, or Nintendo fans in general.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

Gen 1 is leaps and bounds more famous than anything that came after, save a select few Pokemon from Gens 2, 3, and 4.
The biggest Pokemon outside of Gen 1 is probably Lucario...who is in Smash.

On popularity of Generation 1, I agree. I can accept reality over my opinions, however. That's why I don't mind multiple Gen 1 Pokemon, but just don't want them as the only choices.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No it wouldn't. The royalty fees alone wouldn't be worth it.

Look at it this way: Here are the top 10 most popular character discussion threads, reply wise, on this site in order:

Ridley
King K.Rool
Bandana Dee
Isaac
Rayman
Krystal
Wolf
Snake
Shante
Daisy

For humor's sake, assume that this translates into the actual ballot rank. The top four have the advantage of being the most popular and being 100% owned by Nintendo. And overall, only 3 out of the 10 are 3rd party IPs. Why take a bigger risk on an IP you don't even own that's not as popular when you have a lower risk/high reward ratio on characters you own fully (the exception being Snake because his coding can be ported from Brawl)?

Not only would it be a waste of resources, but it would be seen as a spit in the face to the fans of the more popular Nintendo characters, or Nintendo fans in general.

I feel like you're forgetting something. Sakurai's a mad man and Smash boosts sales. I doubt FE6 would have sold as much if Roy wasn't in Melee, not to mention Japan remembered Punch Out because of Mac. Granted, it's not guaranteed to work, but you must realize that hey, Ryu wasn't requested either yet he was positively received

 

[NintenZ]

I feel like you're forgetting something. Sakurai's a mad man and Smash boosts sales. I doubt FE6 would have sold as much if Roy wasn't in Melee, not to mention Japan remembered Punch Out because of Mac. Granted, it's not guaranteed to work, but you must realize that hey, Ryu wasn't requested either yet he was positively received

Actually, yeah, indies could work.

 

[Skyblade12]

I feel like you're forgetting something. Sakurai's a mad man and Smash boosts sales. I doubt FE6 would have sold as much if Roy wasn't in Melee, not to mention Japan remembered Punch Out because of Mac. Granted, it's not guaranteed to work, but you must realize that hey, Ryu wasn't requested either yet he was positively received

And Nintendo has a chance to boost its own sales, or those of an indie. Which would it choose...

 

[Schnee117]

I feel like you're forgetting something. Sakurai's a mad man and Smash boosts sales. I doubt FE6 would have sold as much if Roy wasn't in Melee, not to mention Japan remembered Punch Out because of Mac. Granted, it's not guaranteed to work, but you must realize that hey, Ryu wasn't requested either yet he was positively received

Yet Ryu is a part of a massive series and is an icon. Not comparable to indies at all. You're also forgetting that he'd be more requested if there wasn't the fan rule of "Only 1 character per third party!"

 

[CodeBlue_]

Indies seem to be very popular, so I can definitely see them being added at some point. It could be a good kind of experiment.

I think we really have to answer whether this "experiment" would be a profitable choice.

DLC is something that you have to make a profit out of, Sakurai can't put in any character he wants now. Characters can't focus to the online audience we see (Smashboards, Youtube, Reddit etc.) but rather should focus on the general audience that would actually pay for them. This is not the place for taking risks and introducing new concepts, taking risks or picking favorites from a vocal online community(this is generally done for First Parties fyi). That was for pre-release and unfortunately we are well past that time.

How popular are these characters outside of the Smash speculation Hype Train this community made within the past couple of months? Can the polls we have tell us that?

If Sakurai doesn't believe they appeal to that general audience, then I highly doubt he would give these two a chance. We have plenty of other third party characters to choose from.

I think their only hope is if they top the charts on the Smash Ballot, but I REALLY doubt that will happen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yet Ryu is a part of a massive series and is an icon. Not comparable to indies at all.

Rayman was on the list so I was talking about third parties in general

And Nintendo has a chance to boost its own sales, or those of an indie. Which would it choose...

they can boost their sales or help their business relationship. Both are good in the long run

 

[GreenKirby]

I feel like you're forgetting something. Sakurai's a mad man and Smash boosts sales. I doubt FE6 would have sold as much if Roy wasn't in Melee, not to mention Japan remembered Punch Out because of Mac. Granted, it's not guaranteed to work, but you must realize that hey, Ryu wasn't requested either yet he was positively received

Street Fighter isn't niche

Roy and Little Mac are owned by Nintendo and I'm sure a company loves shilling their own products

And FE6 only had a lukewarm reception at best

they can boost their sales or help their business relationship. Both are good in the long run

And how many quality MGS games did Nintendo get after Snake was in Brawl?

 

[Schnee117]

Rayman was on the list so I was talking about third parties in general

I edited a vital part in.

You're also forgetting that he'd be more requested if there wasn't the fan rule of "Only 1 character per third party!"

Plus the "No fighting game character" misinterpretation.

Take those out and Ryu would probably be up there.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Street Fighter isn't niche

Roy and Little Mac are owned by Nintendo and I'm sure a company loves shilling their own products

And FE6 only had a lukewarm reception at best

True, but what hurt the Wii U's sales? Lack of third party.

I edited a vital part in.


Plus the "No fighting game character" misinterpretation.

Take those out and Ryu would probably be up there.

I dunno, the Smash fanbase is all '2meni characters from X'

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

And Sakurai and Konami would have to agree as well.

While Konami will gladly sell out their franchises for a quick buck, Sakurai may not be willing to work with them after what they did to his friend (and his friend's franchise).

Nintendo also might not want to associate with Konami after the massive bad press they've been getting recently. Even in Japanese media, Konami has been being slammed. Plus, they haven't done a lot for Nintendo lately.

I wouldn't object to Snake (or any other veteran), but I think there's a reason he wasn't in at launch. And I think there have only been more reasons not to include him added since.

Kojima himself wants Snake in Smash. While I can't speak for him myself, I can't help but feel he wouldn't be insulted by a friend taking the character that he based his career on and putting him into Smash.

Not to mention, Nintendo has already dealt with Konami in acquiring Hudson IPs. Honestly, the Japanese culture and business practices in Japan are nothing like America. America can get incredibly politically correct at times (not that it isn't warranted), but that isn't how it is everywhere.

Adding Snake isn't about representing Konami. It's about adding a series and character that have been highly influential to gaming. I mean I don't like what Konami has done, believe me. But it's not about the company. It's the character. A highly desired character if data from multiple polls on the internet are to be believed.

 

[Schnee117]

True, but what hurt the Wii U's sales? Lack of third party.

I dunno, the Smash fanbase is all '2meni characters from X'

It was a lack of the big third party titles like CoD, FIFA and Assassin's Creed because of **** sales and outdated hardware. Not a lack of indie titles. You need to appeal to the mainstream. Wii U doesn't do that outside of "MARIO! MARIO! MARIO!" which wasn't helped with that ****ty E3 showing this year.

I don't think that'd apply here. Yeah you might still get people saying "But what about SEGA and Namco?" but 2 Capcom characters isn't that bad unless you like making Mountains out of Molehills (or in this case absolutely nothing).

 

[GreenKirby]

True, but what hurt the Wii U's sales? Lack of third party.

Again, how many quality, non-port Metal Gear Solid games did Nintendo get when Snake was in Brawl?

And do I need to mention that Street Fighter V isn't on the Wii U?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It was a lack of the big third party titles like CoD, FIFA and Assassin's Creed because of **** sales and outdated hardware. Not a lack of indie titles. You need to appeal to the mainstream. Wii U doesn't do that outside of "MARIO! MARIO! MARIO!" which wasn't helped with that ****ty E3 showing this year.

I don't think that'd apply here. Yeah you might still get people saying "But what about SEGA and Namco?" but 2 Capcom characters isn't that bad unless you like making Mountains out of Molehills (or in this case absolutely nothing).

that reminds me, Nintendo didn't do indie till early 2014 iirc

Smash fans are idiots though, deciding they want more Metroid one year then saying 'too big' the next

 

[Schnee117]

Smash fans are idiots though, deciding they want more Metroid one year then saying 'too big' the next

Pretty sure they were saying both at the same time. There was just 2 "sides"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Again, how many quality, non-port Metal Gear Solid games did Nintendo get when Snake was in Brawl?

And do I need to mention that Street Fighter V isn't on the Wii U?

Again? Didn't see you mention this the first time. Konami is Konami, so if you expect them to do any competent you're just going to e disappointed

I doubt SFV started development after Ryu was thought of

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not expecting third parties, just looking at things from other perspectives

 

[Arcadenik]

So... the ballot is over... and we might be getting at least three characters... it's out of our hands now, and I guess we hope for the best.

I voted repeatedly for Simon Belmont, Dixie Kong, Meowth (and Team Rocket), Toad, Wandering Heroes from StreetPass Mii Plaza, and Captain N. I know they won't be picked but whatever.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So... the ballot is over... and we might be getting at least three characters... it's out of our hands now, and I guess we hope for the best.

I voted repeatedly for Simon Belmont, Dixie Kong, Meowth (and Team Rocket), Toad, Wandering Heroes from StreetPass Mii Plaza, and Captain N. I know they won't be picked but whatever.

I doubt that's true for all of your characters. After all, Dixie's on there

Pretty sure they were saying both at the same time. There was just 2 "sides"

The fact the second side came out of no where is what I'm getting at. Ridley was requested since melee, people only started saying 'too big' after Brawl iirc

 

[Schnee117]

The fact the second side came out of no where is what I'm getting at. Ridley was requested since melee, people only started saying 'too big' after Brawl iirc

Because Sakurai actually came out and spoke about Ridley with Brawl.

 

[Arcadenik]

I doubt that's true for all of your characters. After all, Dixie's on there

And she is not K. Rool... she's not raking in votes as much as K. Rool does.

 

[Skyblade12]

I doubt that's true for all of your characters. After all, Dixie's on there

The fact the second side came out of no where is what I'm getting at. Ridley was requested since melee, people only started saying 'too big' after Brawl iirc

You mean "after the game that portrayed Ridley as a boss ten times the size of the other characters"?

 

[Polan]

Letting Yacht Club make an amiibo? Good experiment. Low risk, high potential reward. Making Shovel Knight an in-game character? Bad experiment. High risk (if the character or IP fails, or even just fails internationally) low potential reward (since profits would be split with Yacht Club).

How is DLC costlier and riskier than amiibo? And Shovel Knight is far from being a failing franchise.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

How is DLC costlier and riskier than amiibo? And Shovel Knight is far from being a failing franchise.

Butt Butt is hardly a franchise at this point. 1 game that did well in America. Whoopie!!! The amiibo is low-risk because Nintendo is being very hands-off with it. They just have their name on it, really. YCG is covering basically everything cost and production wise with the amiibo.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Butt Butt is hardly a franchise at this point. 1 game that did well in America. Whoopie!!! The amiibo is low-risk because Nintendo is being very hands-off with it. They just have their name on it, really. YCG is covering basically everything cost and production wise with the amiibo.

Hey bud, how's Chibi Robo doing?

Oh, and if YCG has the monies to do all that **** with amiibos, how is that a sign of dismal failure?

Smooth Criminal