Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I just think it's odd how 'I thought he'd be popular' was the reasoning. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware of Ryu being one of Capcom's faces and the face of fighting games but it just strikes me odd how a newcomer's justification is purely based on what Sakurai thought people thought of him. Kinda like how Little Mac was chosen due to Sakurai's love of the arcade game instant of the Western fans demanding him iirc

To be fair, comparing Shovel Knight to Nintendo characters isn't the smartest thing to do, though Sakurai got very lucky that Greninja would be one of Gen VI's most iconic things

Yeah but they aren't 3rd party which is half the argument.

Also calling people dunces for an opinion. . .not a strategy that will make people follow you.

True but i still find the too young for smash arguement a little silly (ps i just remember roy from melee is pretty young too.)

So i edited it to less selfish, forgive me everyone

And yes i am aware shovel knight 3rd party is another reason

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True but i still find the too young for smash arguement a little silly (ps i just remember roy from melee is pretty young too.)

So i edited it to less selfish, forgive me everyone

And yes i am aware shovel knight 3rd party is another reason

Geh...Roy getting in still makes me salty as he's garbage in FE and only got in due to advertising a game that would be released AFTER Melee. Though he's the perfect argument to people who claim Smash is about Nintendo allstars

 

[The Light Music Club]

Dude that's pretty dumb, they made quite a lot of money with the first game and amiibo have always been pretty successful. You're using speculation as an argument, that's like calling early access games great based on what you think they might end up as

But is pushing 2 amiibo for a character with no absolute future a good idea? I wouldn't take that gamble, especially with him not being in Japan just yet.

Any words from either of the data diggers?


Oh and i heard people don't want shovel knight due to being to young of the/in the series?

http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/gekkouga.html

http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/secret04.html

Correct me if im wrong but i think these guys are younger than shovel knight

And i am aware shovel knight is 3rd party

Well I don't know. Those series are a lot older. Both have huge worldwide popularity. Both series hold an important place in Nintendo's world. I believe Kid Icarus as a series is older than you. Heck, both series are older than I am. Shovel Knight is a little kid compared to Pokemon/KI. They are series with long lasting popularity. SK might not have that.

 

[ErenJager]

There's so much wrong in this post...Shantae's games have become more successful over the years, Yooka Laylee is catered towards a crowd that hasn't gotten anything, Mighty No.9 was a bandwagon until Diana and Inafune starting causing controversy and Commander Video has the trophy in Smash.
Shovel Knight is the FIRST third party amiibo, meaning it's more noteworthy than Commander Video getting one next month, kinda like Snake being the first third party in smash
You couldn't be more wrong. Not only are you implying people only bandwagoned because of the amiibo, which is false as people bandwagoned when the game came out, and the fact that his game was a huge success to the point people consider that a merit, something that's pretty much entirely opinion based. That only happened with Chorus Kids as Shovel Knight was being a popular candidate BEFORE leaks because of, you know, his game

First third party amiibo?

Pacman, Megaman, Sonic, Skylander Chargers

Keep saying i'm wrong and stuff but like guy, lol.

 

[Burruni]

Geh...Roy getting in still makes me salty as he's garbage in FE and only got in due to advertising a game that would be released AFTER Melee. Though he's the perfect argument to people who claim Smash is about Nintendo allstars

He was also a last minute clone that Intelligent Systems pushed because Sakurai was planning to make it Seliph as the Marth clone and only got in because he was the prettyboy at the right place at the right time and wouldn't be discussed for Brawl or Smash 4 if he didn't touch Melee.

 

[Wintropy]

The "all-stars" argument never really did it for me, to be honest.

Yeah, you can make the case that was an all-star at the time due to the Pokémon anime, but I don't think or really fit the bill.

was popular in Japan so I'm willing to consider him, but were added because Sakurai thought it'd make for an interesting mechanic and was ostensibly inspired by a fan suggestion. I won't count the clones (except maybe , who was popular with fans) because they were deliberately added due to convenience.

I don't think you can really say was an all-star at the time either, since Kid Icarus was more of a nostalgic throwback for most fans than something that set the world on fire, and again, he was picked out because Sakurai reckoned he'd make for an interesting redesign. That said, I will defend to my dying breath.

I don't think I even need to get into the territory of the current roster. We know how that story goes.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

But is pushing 2 amiibo for a character with no absolute future a good idea? I wouldn't take that gamble, especially with him not being in Japan just yet.



SK might not have that.

YCG isn't Japanese and they are providing the SK amiibo themselves so it's their loss, even though all there fans in the west would love an amiibo
'might' Don't bother

First third party amiibo?

Pacman, Megaman, Sonic, Skylander Chargers

Keep saying i'm wrong and stuff but like guy, lol.

Notice how your games are either for Nintendo games or have Nintendo characters. Shovel Knight is the first non-Nintendo character getting an amiibo for a game that isn't made by Nintendo. Keep strawgrasping. I don't even think Shovel Knight is likely yet I'm baffled at these arguments the anti Shovel Knight crowd can bring up

 

[The Light Music Club]

YCG isn't Japanese and they are providing the SK amiibo themselves so it's their loss, even though all there fans in the west would love an amiibo
'might' Don't bother

NINTENDO would have to provide the Smash Bros amiibo though, that's my point. Why would you make two amiibo for a character that isn't well known at all.

And I said might, because we don't know if he will live or not. Let's talk anime real quick. The company known for creating Samurai Shamploo and The World God Only Knows is going bankrupt. They were popular and no one saw this happening.. SK is from a small company, that isn't well known yet. A company and character who is so fresh, with no other series to fall back upon could die at any moment. Will Nintendo take this chance?

 

[ErenJager]

YCG isn't Japanese and they are providing the SK amiibo themselves so it's their loss, even though all there fans in the west would love an amiibo
'might' Don't bother

Notice how your games are either for Nintendo games or have Nintendo characters. Shovel Knight is the first non-Nintendo character getting an amiibo for a game that isn't made by Nintendo. Keep strawgrasping. I don't even think Shovel Knight is likely yet I'm baffled at these arguments the anti Shovel Knight crowd can bring up

Ever see someone want Shovel Knight so bad they stop making sense.

 

[Burruni]

NINTENDO would have to provide the Smash Bros amiibo though, that's my point. Why would you make two amiibo for a character that isn't well known at all.

And I said might, because we don't know if he will live or not. Let's talk anime real quick. The company known for creating Samurai Shamploo and The World God Only Knows is going bankrupt. They were popular and no one saw this happening.. SK is from a small company, that isn't well known yet. A company and character who is so fresh, with no other series to fall back upon could die at any moment. Will Nintendo take this chance?

BRB going to cry for a while at that news.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Ever see someone want Shovel Knight so bad they stop making sense.

Edit: I see his point. They are made for Smash, not a 3rd party game.

But I'm sure if someone wanted an amiibo, they could just slap some money in Ninty's face for it, just like YCG did.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

NINTENDO would have to provide the Smash Bros amiibo though, that's my point. Why would you make two amiibo for a character that isn't well known at all.

And I said might, because we don't know if he will live or not. Let's talk anime real quick. The company known for creating Samurai Shamploo and The World God Only Knows is going bankrupt. They were popular and no one saw this happening.. SK is from a small company, that isn't well known yet. A company and character who is so fresh, with no other series to fall back upon could die at any moment. Will Nintendo take this chance?

Except Nintendo is making ONE amiibo in this scenario, NOT TWO! Keep mind, Yacht Club Games are making the SK amiibo, and if SK is in Smash, Nintendo will give him one just like the rest of the cast

'we don't know' is the entire reason 'might' is a pisspoor argument

Ever see someone want Shovel Knight so bad they stop making sense.

lol I already said I'd understand why Shovel Knight wouldn't be playable and that I wouldn't be disappointed

 

[Burruni]

Shovel Knight is the first amiibo produced by third party work and off of their investment, is the point being made.

The 3rd Party Character amiibos for the Smash Line are still liscened products of the contract with that company for Nintendo to use. The Bowser & DK amiibos for Skylanders is actually a bit of the inverse, where Nintendo got the rights to use the tech from Activision to make a dual-function amiibo.

Edit: Doesn't really mean Jack for him getting in as DLC this time around, though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Edit: I see his point. They are made for Smash, not a 3rd party game.

But I'm sure if someone wanted an amiibo, they could just slap some money in Ninty's face for it, just like YCG did.

'his' I hope you're not talking about me

Nintendo initially DENIED the SK amiibo though

 

[ErenJager]

So because he has an amiibo he's likely to be in smash?

I would argue that's straw grasping.

chibi robo should be the next dlc character then, or like yarn yoshi.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Except Nintendo is making ONE amiibo in this scenario, NOT TWO! Keep mind, Yacht Club Games are making the SK amiibo, and if SK is in Smash, Nintendo will give him one just like the rest of the cast

'we don't know' is the entire reason 'might' is a pisspoor argument

lol I already said I'd understand why Shovel Knight wouldn't be playable and that I wouldn't be disappointed

It isn't a "pisspoor" argument though. What kind of business decision is that? Adding a no name company's character when no one knows the future of it?

Characters like Dark Pit, Greninja, and Roy, were all from popular franchises that obviously could still have futures. SK is not nearly as popular a franchise as ANY OF THEM. Even Shantae would make more sense that way.

YCG was the only company that wanted an Amiibo, so why would they want that if Nintendo already has one on the way? That would be the dumbest waste of money.

'his' I hope you're not talking about me

Nintendo initially DENIED the SK amiibo though

YGC asked/paid for the rights to use the "amiibo" name. Nintendo wasn't like "oh here, just stamp our name on it, we'll give it to you for free." Enough money can make people do the dumbest things.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So because he has an amiibo he's likely to be in smash?

I would argue that's straw grasping.

When did I ever say he was likely? Again, I don't know what to think of the chances if SK gets in Smash, I'm literally 50/50 on it

 

[A Distant Demon]

Sakurai was planning to make it Seliph as the Marth clone

gonna need a source on that one.

 

[Burruni]

So because he has an amiibo he's likely to be in smash?

I would argue that's straw grasping.

Because he has an amiibo, people will make the case that he's the most likely of indies as this push is seen as the biggest jump.
It's his popularity and usage in a few directs as one of the bigger highlights of Nintendo's indie titles on the WiiU that people will stake at being indicators that he's, say, a top 10 contender.

Edit:

gonna need a source on that one.

Both me having the wrong lord, wrong game, and it being misinformation.

"Sakurai planning Sigurd for Smash 64, seems to be an unfounded rumor. No official sources could be found, making this pure speculation." -
The Definitive Unused Fighters List in Smash @ SourceGaming

I'm a derp. Sorry.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So because he has an amiibo he's likely to be in smash?

I would argue that's straw grasping.

chibi robo should be the next dlc character then, or like yarn yoshi.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

cmon. I dont even like shovel knight but you at least have to properly look at the argument.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It isn't a "pisspoor" argument though. What kind of business decision is that? Adding a no name company's character when no one knows the future of it?

Characters like Dark Pit, Greninja, and Roy, were all from popular franchises that obviously could still have futures. SK is not nearly as popular a franchise as ANY OF THEM. Even Shantae would make more sense that way.

YCG was the only company that wanted an Amiibo, so why would they want that if Nintendo already has one on the way? That would be the dumbest waste of money.



YGC asked/paid for the rights to use the "amiibo" name. Nintendo wasn't like "oh here, just stamp our name on it, we'll give it to you for free."

Except the Japanese smash fans are in the minority.
lol you said Roy despite FE nearly being killed off
Konami has retweeted fanmade Snake amiibo designs, YCG clearly aren't the only people who want amiibo.
More publicity and the fact amiibo are highly successful
It took a year to convince Nintendo iirc

 

[The Light Music Club]

Except the Japanese smash fans are in the minority.
lol you said Roy despite FE nearly being killed off
Konami has retweeted fanmade Snake amiibo designs, YCG clearly aren't the only people who want amiibo.
More publicity and the fact amiibo are highly successful
It took a year to convince Nintendo iirc

At the point Roy was added to Smash Bros, the series was extremely successful to the point Nintendo decided to bring it to the US. SK still hasn't even made a WW debut yet. I don't see how Japan is the minority or whatever. They still seem to get the most say, as Marth, Roy, and Lucas are/were Japan only. No Eastern only character, especially a 3rd party has been in the game. Sakurai once said he didn't like region only characters, so why would they pay to use one?

Who cares if Konami is retweeting stuff. Does that mean they are willing to pay the amount of money Nintendo wants to get it? What game would it be used for? Sakurai would have to OK the character for Smash, and Konami can't get MGS 5 to work on Wii U I heard.

YCG and Konami are in different boats here. One wants an amiibo for a game on a Nintendo System, that they are willing to pay for. The other wants their character in a Nintendo Game, and then get an amiibo, that Nintendo pays for.

 

[ErenJager]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

cmon. I dont even like shovel knight but you at least have to properly look at the argument.

The argument is basically irrational, anything SK related is automatically making him more likely for Smash?
He's a third party multi-platform indie character, of which his creators dumped money into getting an Amiibo license.
If I had enough money I could buy licensing for an amiibo of my left nut.
Doesn't mean it'll be in Smash.

 

[The Light Music Club]

The argument is basically irrational, anything SK related is automatically making him more likely for Smash?
He's a third party multi-platform indie character, of which his creators dumped money into getting an Amiibo.
If I had enough money I could buy licensing for an amiibo of my left nut.
Doesn't mean it'll be in Smash.

I'm going to start a kickstarter to get a Miku amiibo to work with the new 3DS game she has.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

At the point Roy was added to Smash Bros, the series was extremely successful to the point Nintendo decided to bring it to the US. SK still hasn't even made a WW debut yet. I don't see how Japan is the minority or whatever. They still seem to get the most say, as Marth, Roy, and Lucas are/were Japan only. No Eastern only character, especially a 3rd party has been in the game.

Who cares if Konami is retweeting stuff. Does that mean they are willing to pay the amount of money Nintendo wants to get it? What game would it be used for? Sakurai would have to OK the character for Smash, and Konami can't get MGS 5 to work on Wii U I heard.

YCG and Konami are in different boats here. One wants an amiibo for a game on a Nintendo System, that they are willing to pay for. The other wants their character in a Nintendo Game, and then get an amiibo, that Nintendo pays for.

I only brought up Roy as an argument against 'Smash is about Nintendo's allstars'
So...Just because nobody else tried getting an amiibo, nobody wants one?
YCG wanted an amiibo they'd pay for and provide themselves, which they got and would want one to be with the rest of the characters by paying Nintendo to use it. The hell are you even saying? I don't get it anymore, why is a potential Smash amiibo the most important argument against SK?

 

[Burruni]

The argument is basically irrational, anything SK related is automatically making him more likely for Smash?
He's a third party multi-platform indie character, of which his creators dumped money into getting an Amiibo license.
If I had enough money I could buy licensing for an amiibo of my left nut.
Doesn't mean it'll be in Smash.

Anything SK related when it comes to Nintendo and Promotion means that he certainly can be in the eye for Smash. There's really not a case to be made that any of it HURTS his chances or hopes.
And you've now come to an argument of "Anything can happen" with 3rd Party Amiibo creation. But there's only one case OF it happening.

I don't want him or think we're getting him but you're being ridiculous in the negative.

 

[NintenZ]

To respond to this whole discussion, YCG's Twitter has been dropping various hints (Not-so-subtle-ones) that SK will be in the game.

 

[Burruni]

To respond to this whole discussion, YCG's Twitter has been dropping various hints (Not-so-subtle-ones) that SK will be in the game.

So has Matt Bozon since the ballot got revealed for Shantae.
So did Microsoft about Banjo-Kazooie.
So did Edmund McMillen about Meat Boy.
So did Ubisoft about Rayman.
Doesn't mean we're getting any of em.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm going to start a kickstarter to get a Miku amiibo to work with the new 3DS game she has.

What the **** does YCG potentially getting 2 amiibo, one of which they have to make themselves, have to do with making a kickstarter for a different company to ask Nintendo if the the company that owns Miku will let SEGA make their own amiibo for Miku?

 

[LIQUID12A]

To respond to this whole discussion, YCG's Twitter has been dropping various hints (Not-so-subtle-ones) that SK will be in the game.

At best these hints are teasing for now until we het some sort of reveal announcement.

I wouldn't look too deep into it.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I only brought up Roy as an argument against 'Smash is about Nintendo's allstars'
So...Just because nobody else tried getting an amiibo, nobody wants one?
YCG wanted an amiibo they'd pay for and provide themselves, which they got and would want one to be with the rest of the characters by paying Nintendo to use it. The hell are you even saying? I don't get it anymore, why is a potential Smash amiibo the most important argument against SK?

I wasn't making a Nintendo All-Star argument, and you know it. We were talking about the fact that a franchise's future is important, not the character itself.

What I'm saying is, why pay the extra money for a 2nd amiibo, if you can test the waters with one Nintendo is providing first?

And no, I'm not saying no one wants one. I'm saying they understand business. YOU were talking about KONAMI, so I was arguing about Konami. Other companies probably want to see how SK's amiibo turns out before they start asking for one, because if they create an amiibo, and no one buys it, what would be the point? YCG is willing to take the chance. No one knows how well a "non-nintendo" amiibo will sell.

 

[NintenZ]

So has Matt Bozon since the ballot got revealed for Shantae.
So did Microsoft about Banjo-Kazooie.
So did Edmund McMillen about Meat Boy.
So did Ubisoft about Rayman.
Doesn't mean we're getting any of em.

Those weren't hints, those were promotional stunts where they requested people to vote for their characters so they could be in the game. See the difference?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Those weren't hints, those were promotional stunts where they requested people to vote for their characters so they could be in the game. See the difference?

Shantae's company literally tweeted "See you in Smash!"
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/shantaes-co-creator-tweets-see-you-in-smash1

 

[Burruni]

Those weren't hints, those were promotional stunts where they requested people to vote for their characters so they could be in the game.

"Could this be a sign of things to come?" - Ubisoft Twitter
That's like Kojima-esque teasing.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wasn't making a Nintendo All-Star argument, and you know it. We were talking about the fact that a franchise's future is important, not the character itself

**** it, you're clearly not listening to what I'm saying as I only talked about Roy when he was brought up and now you're acting like I changed the topic. We're done, if you're not going to try to listen to me, I sure as hell aren't going to try to listen to yo

 

[NintenZ]

Shantae's company literally tweeted "See you in Smash!"

"Could this be a sign of things to come?" - Ubisoft Twitter
That's like Kojima-esque teasing.

The Ubisoft thing was to get people to vote for Rayman, as for Shantae, this was done to get more people to give her ballot support by showing she was a super star.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The Ubisoft thing was to get people to vote for Rayman, as for Shantae, this was done to get more people to give her ballot support by showing she was a super star.

Ubisoft did this to get Rayman votes. Matt Bozon teasingly said 'see you in Smash' to get more people to vote for Shantae. Same reason.

 

[Talpr1]

The Ubisoft thing was to get people to vote for Rayman, as for Shantae, this was done to get more people to give her ballot support by showing she was a super star.

https://twitter.com/YachtClubGames/status/648686428222689280

How is a tweet like this any different than Wayforward tweeting "See you in Smash!"?

 

[Burruni]

The Ubisoft thing was to get people to vote for Rayman, as for Shantae, this was done to get more people to give her ballot support by showing she was a super star.

But there's no actual difference in their usage of tweets to that of YCG. If anything, YCG has more generally spoken about Smash because they're fans of the games instead of poking that they'll have a spot ready.

To claim that that this is indication is really... DIGGING YOUR OWN GRAVE!

 

[ErenJager]

Anything SK related when it comes to Nintendo and Promotion means that he certainly can be in the eye for Smash. There's really not a case to be made that any of it HURTS his chances or hopes.
And you've now come to an argument of "Anything can happen" with 3rd Party Amiibo creation. But there's only one case OF it happening.

I don't want him or think we're getting him but you're being ridiculous in the negative.

He's a new third party multi-platform indie character. (Chances inherently hurt)
I think the onus should be on supporters to bring something more compelling to the table if you want a detractor to take him seriously when compared to KKR, Wolf, etc.
The Amiibo doesn't sell me, Wayforward could go buy licensing for the Amiibo name too, doesn't mean Shantae's confirmed for Smash.

With Sakurai saying theres only so many spots left, and with so many other highly popular/ requested characters remaining... SK just pales in comparison of likelihood.