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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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Sakurai said he would add the winner of the smash ballot, I don't think that necessarily matters
No he never said that. It was stated that maybe if you put a vote in for a character maybe they would be made playable. No one from Nintendo, including Sakurai, has ever said the character with the most votes would be made playable.
 

Children0fTheStars

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Sakurai said he would add the winner of the smash ballot, I don't think that necessarily matters
No, Sakurai said the remaining DLC fighters after Ryu would be the result of fan demand, and Iwata explained that the ballot was for fans to give suggestions for future fighters.

It's not an election, and there isn't a single ballot "winner".
 

Bradli Wartooth

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I think you guys are over analyzing it.
Implying Sakurai just throws a dart at a wall of names and makes that character..?

Lots of analysis goes into this process for the devs. Marketing, licensing, demand, etc. all play factors.
 

Arcanir

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So, realistically, if we're getting anything else, tonight or tomorrow are basically it for pre-release info.

Then it's all up to the dataminers.
Personally, I feel tonight is the make-or-break for anymore content. The Smash Twitter account updates at night, and we're getting the DLC no latter then very early Wednesday morning since the maintenance is stated to be late Tuesday night/early Wednesday morning for the US. To add to that, the DLC is also stated to be out for both the east and west on the 30th, so due to timezone differences it can't be too late in the day for the US since then it'd cross into the 31st for Japan. So if they are going to tell us, tonight is really the only time it can work since the DLC will likely follow the maintenance and they'd probably want to give us an early heads up before it seems to be too short notice otherwise.
 

BluePikmin11

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Are we honestly still comparing Layton to Snake?

Come on, we've been over this. Metal Gear most certainly will continue, is still in a far better position than Layton is(when your next major release is on mobile platforms, something is wrong; MG has had mobile games before but those were not main installments), and is still arguably easier to manage for Smash; and Snake is still hotly requested too.
Layton 7 isn't a main entry, it's a spinoff.
The only reason it's referred to as Layton 7 is because of the amount of characters playable in the game according to Level-5.
Regardless, it would be an irrelevant point anyway with Street Fighter V coming to non-Nintendo platforms and Ryu being added(the argument you guys use all the time). The point is moot and I don't think Sakurai would care.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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Personally, I feel tonight is the make-or-break for anymore content. The Smash Twitter account updates at night, and we're getting the DLC no latter then very early Wednesday morning since the maintenance is stated to be late Tuesday night/early Wednesday morning for the US. To add to that, the DLC is also stated to be out for both the east and west on the 30th, so due to timezone differences it can't be too late in the day for the US since then it'd cross into the 31st for Japan. So if they are going to tell us, tonight is really the only time it can work since the DLC will likely follow the maintenance and they'd probably want to give us an early heads up before it seems to be too short notice otherwise.
Didn't we get the Ryu/Lucas/Roy update literally moments before they released though?

EDIT: I mean the official announcement and availability of the products, not the actual update itself. The update obviously went on the night before.
 
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LIQUID12A

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Regardless, it would be an irrelevant point anyway with Street Fighter V coming to non-Nintendo platforms and Ryu being added(the argument you guys use all the time). The point is moot and I don't think Sakurai would care.
Sakurai would likewise not care for the same reasons in the case of adding Snake, who has the benefits of much higher popularity and ease of reworking in Sm4sh's engine due to being a veteran.

What sounds better as a choice:

-A third party veteran with tons of support, ease of reworking due to being a veteran, and one that consistently places high in fan polls worldwide

-A third party newcomer that must have more time spent working on them who doesn't even rank in the Top 50 of Japan-requested characters according to SG and whose notable support comes from the West, only backed in a specific fanmade poll

Knowing you, you'll tell me that the second option because muhkonami and muhrights and muhissues.
 
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BluePikmin11

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Sakurai would likewise not care for the same reaosns in the case of adding Snake, who has the benefits of much higher popularity and ease of reworking in Sm4sh's engine due to being a veteran.

What sounds better as a choice:

-A third party veteran with tons of support, ease of reworking due to being a veteran, and one that consistently places high in fan polls worldwide

-A third party newcomer that must have more time spent working on them who doesn't even rank in the Top 50 of Japan-requested characters according to SG and whose notable support comes from the West, only backed in a specific fanmade poll
Why are you asking me to choose? You probably know the answer.
Just because he would be the better choice doesn't mean it makes it easier to get the rights for Snake, which is really uncertain on how Konami and Nintendo would play it out with Konami's new direction for games.
 

LIQUID12A

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Why are you asking me to choose? You probably know the answer.
Just because he would be the better choice doesn't mean it makes it easier to get the rights for Snake, which is really uncertain on how Konami and Nintendo would play it out with Konami's new direction for games.
It's hard to judge what a person would choose when factoring in bias vs logic in an argument. Just playing it safe, and no, I don't know the answer to that question considering what I said. Only you do, Bluey.

We don't even know how easy it is to get rights for third parties regardless, so it can go either way. Hypothesize and argue points, we can, but in the end it's the eventual reveals that will tell us the answers. Like you said, and agreeing for once, it's uncertain. Both sides have ups and downs, so playing the waiting game is all we can do.
 
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Burruni

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What Banjo-Kazooie have going for them:
+Icons of the N64 Era
~ "Middling" popularity
~ One of Microsoft's head said he'd be open for the idea

What Banjo-Kazooie have against them:
- Owned by a direct competitor
- Have been almost irrelelvant since the N64 era
- Only "middling" popularity.

JAMES BOND was more requested than them for Melee, when they were at their peak.

K. Rool has been a consistently high requested character.
 

BluePikmin11

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You'd have to think with Konami's direction, what if it affects Sakurai decisions towards adding Snake to the game? What if he loses respect for Konami with firing Kojima and decides not to add Snake in the game. How is Nintendo and Konami's relationship right now and how does the direction affect their relationship? What certain things can Konami agree with Nintendo at this point? So many questions that need to be answered that makes a feeling of uncertainty for Snake.
 
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RobinOnDrugs

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The biggest factor that Banjo and Kazooie have against them is the fact that they're no longer Nintendo's IP.

Even if Phil Spencer said he's open to them being in a Smash game, the legal stuff Nintendo would have to do with Microsoft would be nutty given they're competitors.
 
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KimKarsmashian

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You'd have to think with Konami's direction, what if it affects Sakurai decisions towards adding Snake to the game? What if he loses respect for Konami with firing Kojima and decides not to add Snake in the game. How is Nintendo and Konami's relationship right now and how does the direction affect their relationship? What certain things can Konami agree with Nintendo at this point? So many questions that need to be answered that makes a feeling of uncertainty for Snake.
I'm not quite sure why people keep bringing this up. This is speculation about personal matters. We really have no grounds to be arguing about whether or not this is a personal affront to Sakurai/Kojima.
 

BluePikmin11

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I'm not quite sure why people keep bringing this up. This is speculation about personal matters. We really have no grounds to be arguing about whether or not this is a personal affront to Sakurai/Kojima.
Personally I'm believing his overall opinion on Konami is likely negative. I'm sure he's still friends with Kojima though, even though he's not part of Konami anymore.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Personally I'm believing his overall opinion on Konami is likely negative. I'm sure he's still friends with Kojima though, even though he's not part of Konami anymore.
The thing is though, that Kojima still supports Snake in Smash. He's retweeted pictures of the Snake amiibo, as Konami has.

I don't really think Sakurai has salt towards Konami.
 

Arcanir

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Didn't we get the Ryu/Lucas/Roy update literally moments before they released though?

EDIT: I mean the official announcement and availability of the products, not the actual update itself. The update obviously went on the night before.
The thing is that was done via a stream, which was announced around a full week in advance, so even so we had a week to be hyped up and prepared for whatever came with it. Yet with this particular update, we haven't gotten any word of a stream or the like despite us nearing the 1 day away mark. So as of right now, it looks like the twitter is the only venue we have, and we only have tonight before the update hits and I doubt they'd remind us minutes beforehand.
 
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smashkirby

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No, I was mainly bringing up Layton in saying his creator and Sakurai are acquainted.

Layton isn't looking nearly as bleak as MGS. His English voice actor recorded lines for two games with Layton in them recently. One can be presumed as Layton 7, no one knows, not even the actor, what the other game was. Someone mentioned he was confused with the lines, as they didn't seem typical for a Layton game. They were extra pages in a session.

I know for a fact that they dont tell VAs what they are dubbing, at least Nintendo. Bryce Papenbrook had no idea he was in Fire Emblem Awakening until people brought him the game to sign.
Also, an interview with Xander Mobus, and don't worry, I'll post the video link later, had him reveal that when he auditioned as the Announcer of Smash 4, Nintendo did NOT tell him what the audition was even for (Though, he personally had a PRETTY good idea.:smirk:)
 

KimKarsmashian

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The thing is though, that Kojima still supports Snake in Smash. He's retweeted pictures of the Snake amiibo, as Konami has.

I don't really think Sakurai has salt towards Konami.
Oh I totally forgot about this. Now that silly "it would make Kojima sad" excuse doesn't even have a leg to stand on. Kojima was the one who said "sakurai if you're watching please use Snake."

So what are the anti-Snake arguments?
- Konami is not doing gaming anymore - patently false. They won't make AAA games anymore, but they have stated they don't plan to stop making games.
- Sakurai won't put Snake in because it would tick Kojima off - Kojima said "Sakurai, please use Snake." He has retweeted a Snake amiibo. Why wouldn't he want his creation in his friend's game?
- Konami doesn't want to promote Kojima at all - They intend to continue using the Metal Gear brand. And if their twitter is any indication, they've retweeted a Snake for Smash tweet.
- Snake isn't an icon/recognizable to casuals - ????
huh.gif

- Snake would raise the ESRB rating - there's no proof he raised the rating last time. The ESRB website doesn't list anything particular to Snake for Brawl's rating, and nothing in 4's rating would prevent his return.
- Snake doesn't have a strong relation to Nintendo - Pac-Man has no particular relation to Nintendo. Ryu's most popular game was on the SNES, but the rest of his series is not particularly associated with Nintendo. Sonic spent the first part of his existence as Nintendo's antagonist. Mega-Man is the only one who really, truly, has a strong relation with Nintendo. Moreover, as the first third party character ever, Snake sort of sets the standard for the rest of the characters, not the other way around. Being "strongly related to Nintendo" has never been mentioned by Sakurai, and even fans never brought this up until Megaman was added.
- Snake doesn't fit into Smash! - entirely subjective, and the incredibly warm reception Snake received the first time around shows that plenty of people thought he fit in fine.

I'm not going to pretend the "Konami situation" might not be an influence in Snake's absence up until now. But I'm tired of it being used as a bogeyman because nobody understands it and it sounds scary. Snake isn't a shoo-in by any means, but I'm tired of some of these arguments being bandied about and being accepted uncritically. Snake is a very popular veteran from an iconic gaming series. Don't assume he's not a threat.
 
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JaidynReiman

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Yacht Club purchased by Nintendo confirmed, Shovel Knight DLC incoming, much lamentation and gnashing of teeth.
If Yacht Club was purchased by Nintendo then I wouldn't care about Shovel Knight getting into the game. Anyway, I don't think it means anything one way or the other about SK in Smash.
 

Aetheri

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We still going on about the whole 'Snake isn't an icon' bologna? Snake isn't on par with Sonic, Megaman, Pac-Man, and arguably even Ryu, sure, but he's still part of a series that revolutionized it's genre, and has even influenced stealth aspects found within various Nintendo titles...

The only thing keeping Snake out is Konami's unstable situation and their current lack of involvement within Smash...Konami (and Kojima) are more than supportive of Snake returning, so it's really up to Sakurai and Nintendo to follow suit (as is the case with many other third parties)

As for the Rating of Brawl...one character is not going to raise the Rating especially if said character was designed in a specific way to avoid the rating from going up...(no guns, knives, smoking, etc) But those detractors that complain about Snake raising the rating in Brawl fail to mention Melee also had a Teen rating...
 

Smooth Criminal

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We still going on about the whole 'Snake isn't an icon' bologna? Snake isn't on par with Sonic, Megaman, Pac-Man, and arguably even Ryu, sure, but he's still part of a series that revolutionized it's genre, and has even influenced stealth aspects found within various Nintendo titles...
If revolutionizing a whole genre and popularizing cinematic storytelling in gaming isn't iconic, then you're outta your mind. He's every bit as iconic the rest of the third parties that are currently in this game.

Smooth Criminal
 
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KimKarsmashian

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If revolutionizing a whole genre and popularizing cinematic storytelling in gaming isn't iconic, you're outta your mind. He's every bit as iconic the rest of the third parties that are currently in this game.

Smooth Criminal
There's three icons in this game that go beyond gaming itself and are pure pop culture icons. Those are Pac-Man, Mario, and Pikachu. It's not really fair to compare the rest to them. Megaman, Ryu, Snake, Sonic, those are icons of gaming. I don't think some childless 80-year-old man would recognize them. But even if you've never picked up a controller in your life and the last time you ever saw anyone play a videogame was Pong in the 70s, you know the first three I mentioned.

Megaman, Ryu, Sonic, and Snake should be known to any gamer worth their salt. Passing familiarity with them is a must. It's like Madonna or Michael Jackson within pop music - you might not know their discography, but you recognize them, probably know a couple of songs unconsciously, and the (pop!) musicians you listen to are undoubtedly influenced by them.
 

Burruni

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My case with Snake and DLC stands as such:

What has changed from the main disc for Snake?

Of our 6 Brawl cuts, :squirtle::ivysaur: Two were cut due to the separation of Transformation fighters, :popo::icsmelee: have had an interview dedicated to explaining why technical limits kept them out, :4lucas: one in the game due to high popularity.... :wolf: one who will very likely be the same, :snake: and one that's... just been lost. No real reason given by Sakurai, Nintendo, Kojima, or Konami.

I can't specifically remember when, but sometime between E3 2013 and 2014, Kojima replied to a fan question about Snake in Smash with something along the lines of "I'd love it, but Sakurai hasn't approached me or Konami about it... yet." Fast Forward to E3 2014, when Sakurai says at the roundtable that there was at least a tentative roster for Smash 4 drafted up (with likely having Roy, Mewtwo, Lucas, and maybe Wolf on it but certainly not Lucina, Dark Pit, and likely Doc at the time) before work ever got put forth on the game.

Call me out if I'm straw grasping but I took that to mean that either Kojima was being the "troll" that he is known for to surprise people when Snake turned up later on the main release.... or... Snake had just been dropped.

Since then, Kojima's left Konami and the company itself has made some fairly radical steps away from main gaming as we know it which has given the company an EA-level sour eye in the community. Which could be a whole bunch of conjecture that means nothing. We have the ballot, which we don't know exactly how it works and assume its more of a "suggestion box with volume" instead of a simple tally of votes. Sakurai has stated that we will have "only several more characters," through DLC and that it'll be a LOT of fanservice (and not in the Senran Kagura way) for the fans from here.

If Snake is to return as Smash 4 DLC, the way I see it having to come is that either recently or in the very near future, Nintendo's going into strict contracting with Konami about the rights (to avoid a :sonic: time lapse situation) to even BEGIN work on him and would end up being basically the very last character to come.

Snake, among Icies and Wolf has to be the top 3 most requested veterans to return. And probably even a top 10 overall requested. However, the somewhat enigmatic bubble of contracting I feel makes him more likely to return in Smash 5 due to his popularity than to be crunched in with Smash 4.
 
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Wintropy

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I'm in that pre-release phase of character speculation where I know something big is coming and I know that I will be excited either way...

But it just doesn't feel real.

I have high hopes for K. Rool and I think it's definitely possible we will see him in due time, but it's the kind of thing that's just so good that I can't conceive of it manifesting in this reality.

And yet...

Maybe it will, this time.

EDIT: Re: Shovel Knight:

Watching tourney footage of Villager makes me want to see the Shovel Knight / Villager matchup.

Three colons, crazy~
 
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Kenith

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There's three icons in this game that go beyond gaming itself and are pure pop culture icons. Those are Pac-Man, Mario, and Pikachu. It's not really fair to compare the rest to them. Megaman, Ryu, Snake, Sonic, those are icons of gaming. I don't think some childless 80-year-old man would recognize them. But even if you've never picked up a controller in your life and the last time you ever saw anyone play a videogame was Pong in the 70s, you know the first three I mentioned.

Megaman, Ryu, Sonic, and Snake should be known to any gamer worth their salt. Passing familiarity with them is a must. It's like Madonna or Michael Jackson within pop music - you might not know their discography, but you recognize them, probably know a couple of songs unconsciously, and the (pop!) musicians you listen to are undoubtedly influenced by them.
Um, Sonic is definitely up there with Pac-Man, Mario, and Pikachu.
 
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