Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[True Blue Warrior]

The problem with Shovel Knight isn't that he is "too new" or his amount of games, it's that , in the grand scale of things, he and his franchise just aren't majorly iconic or notability to video gaming unlike Snake, Sonic, Pac-Man, MegaMan and Ryu and considering the fact that if he gets in, there would still be few third-party characters, which makes him stick out like a sore thumb in comparison to the third-party characters we got. In contrast, Yokai-Watch, despite also being new, managed to become insanely iconic and popular at least in Japan. Shovel Knight isn't big anywhere and as a third-party candidate with all the established third-party characters we got being big, iconic characters, that does not sit well with me.

 

[Kenith]

It is honestly this mentality that has people pitting them against each other in the first place, though.

No it isn't.
It's the mentality that one is more deserving than the other that starts arguments. They're not.
Honestly this applies to every character ever though.

 

[Burruni]

Seriously though.
If you people have a challenging and/or Metroidvania itch that needs a filler

Get the game.
Please
Help it be more popular

 

[Solbliminal]

No it isn't.
It's the mentality that one is more deserving than the other that starts arguments. They're not.
Honestly this applies to every character ever though.

But what breeds the thought of that argument? The thought that only one of the two can make it. Otherwise no one would be arguing over it in the first place.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There are going to be different problems to different people, but 3rd parties will never be the main focus of Smash Bros. Even if we had another one this game. That's 5 out of...close to 60. Everything else is Nintendo. The main focus isn't other companies. Saying it would be is blowing it out of proportion.

Now, I can partially agree with the concept of the whole "One game" thing. It's not fair to compare 1st party "One gamers" to 3rd parties. But Shovel Knight...I view him as a wee bit different. Not that he's shoe in material because of it.

Lets relate this to Mario. Mario wasn't the first of his kind. He was a character that happened to take off. That's why he is what he is now. Shovel Knight isn't the first of his kind. He, however, has stood out. There's a reason why he stands out in the industry (and among indies) while many may not know who Shantae is. I know this because almost all of my friends know who Shovel Knight is, but have no clue about Shantae. Just because you're around longer doesn't mean you automatically have the greater impact.

Shovel Knight could become huge. He could bomb. Nobody can know for certain. As an indie, he's had crossover content with big name characters like Kratos, and may have more with Nintendo characters soon. The character and his company have a reasonably bright future assuming nothing hits the fan. With the large focus on indies in the industry, Shovel Knight may be in the right place at the right time. Especially as he will venture to Japan.

Now, do I think Shovel Knight should get in over Snake because of it? No. Not really. But I also don't think Shovel Knight is the WORST choice ever.

People are going to complain that Shovel Knight is more widely broadcasted than Shantae at the moment, but that's what happens sometimes. No matter your longevity, somebody newer may steal the spotlight.

My point is, you could argue that Indies are going to become an important part of history in gaming just as the previous characters have changed/shaped it. Does that mean he'll get in Smash 4? No, but he could easily get in in a future installment.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm just going to say this here and now:

I don't think Shovel Knight is a mediocre choice because he's a one-off, he's an indie, he doesn't have the sales figures or he doesn't fit the criteria of "all-star".

I think Shovel Knight is a mediocre choice because I'm not personally interested in him.

That's my opinion, and I stand by it.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Shovel Knight being included would be the first decision ever to make me lose respect for Sakurai.

I'm confident it won't happen, though.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

There are going to be different problems to different people, but 3rd parties will never be the main focus of Smash Bros. Even if we had another one this game. That's 5 out of...close to 60. Everything else is Nintendo. The main focus isn't other companies. Saying it would be is blowing it out of proportion.

Now, I can partially agree with the concept of the whole "One game" thing. It's not fair to compare 1st party "One gamers" to 3rd parties. But Shovel Knight...I view him as a wee bit different. Not that he's shoe in material because of it.

Lets relate this to Mario. Mario wasn't the first of his kind. He was a character that happened to take off. That's why he is what he is now. Shovel Knight isn't the first of his kind. He, however, has stood out. There's a reason why he stands out in the industry (and among indies) while many may not know who Shantae is. I know this because almost all of my friends know who Shovel Knight is, but have no clue about Shantae. Just because you're around longer doesn't mean you automatically have the greater impact.

Shovel Knight could become huge. He could bomb. Nobody can know for certain. As an indie, he's had crossover content with big name characters like Kratos, and may have more with Nintendo characters soon. The character and his company have a reasonably bright future assuming nothing hits the fan. With the large focus on indies in the industry, Shovel Knight may be in the right place at the right time. Especially as he will venture to Japan.

Now, do I think Shovel Knight should get in over Snake because of it? No. Not really. But I also don't think Shovel Knight is the WORST choice ever.

People are going to complain that Shovel Knight is more widely broadcasted than Shantae at the moment, but that's what happens sometimes. No matter your longevity, somebody newer may steal the spotlight.

My point is, you could argue that Indies are going to become an important part of history in gaming just as the previous characters have changed/shaped it. Does that mean he'll get in Smash 4? No, but he could easily get in in a future installment.

Considering his one game hasn't even reached one million copies weheras there a lots of third-party franchises with millins of copies, I don't agree he stands out at all in the grand scale of things. He may be the biggest indie character, but consideirng none of the indie characters are well-known among a wider gaming audience, or "casual gamers" to put it unlike several other franchises, I fail to see his significance when compared to many other third-party candidates.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Considering his one game hasn't even reached one million copies weheras there a lots of third-party franchises with millins of copies, I don't agree he stands out at all in the grand scale of things. He may be the biggest indie character, but consideirng none of the indie characters are well-known among a wider gaming audience, or "casual gamers" to put it unlike several other franchises, I fail to see his significance when compared to many other third-party candidates.

That's why I said I don't necessarily think he deserves it over characters like Snake. I don't think he'd be a bad choice, but he's not the BEST choice. I don't really know if there's a best choice at all.

My point was more that the whole idea of "Indies" is a big deal in the industry. Smaller studios are independently making their games and what not. It's a big deal right now, and it could get bigger. That's all I was addressing with that. Not that it automatically makes him a better choice or something. It's just something to think about.

 

[LIQUID12A]

In contrast, Yokai-Watch, despite also being new, managed to become insanely iconic and popular at least in Japan.

Hasn't the YKW fever begun to die down due to milking, though? If you look at it one way, YKW and Shovel Knight are polar opposites.

Shovel Knight: Single game that continuously gets updates and crossovers with other companies and stands strong. Unknown in Japan.

Yokai Watch: Series that somehow became a major thing in Japan for a while, but with declining interest due to milking it with several spinoffs. Borderline unknown in the West.

 

[Burruni]

Shantae and Butt Butt are certiantly not powerhouses like our past 3rd Parties, or even the likes of Rayman, Bomberman, a Belmont, or say a Final Fantasy character.

But they ARE two big of the biggest names made across the Indie scene (unless we count the Touhou Project).

It's off the grounds of "Since indies are being so huge, how about we peek over to who is big amongst them," scenario that a lot of their hopes lie.

Edit: Shantae hoping off of a lesser, more passionate fanbase with history of the brand and company to hold while Shovel Knight is trying to do all he can off of his certainly sizable debut without much knowledge if a sequel has been tossed around in any stage of planning.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sakurai surely doesn't give a **** about how close a character is with Nintendo (the man added Snake in Brawl and considered adding Heihachi in 3DS/Wii U). However I can't blame some people for thinking it's a poor decision to allow characters that have a poor history with Nintendo in a game about Nintendo.

 

[Wintropy]

unless we count the Touhou Project

You just had to go there, didn't you?

The second a Touhou game is released on a Nintendo console, I'm supporting Reimu Hakurei for Smash.

Might take a while.

 

[Burruni]

You just had to go there, didn't you?

The second a Touhou game is released on a Nintendo console, I'm supporting Reimu Hakurei for Smash.

Might take a while.

And I'm going to be of the Marisa party.
And we will be at war.
Dammit ZUN, lower your beer budget and fund yourself a game onto a console!

 

[Wintropy]

And I'm going to be of the Marisa party.
And we will be at war.
Dammit ZUN, lower your beer budget and fund yourself a game onto a console!

I think Marisa'd be a good choice.

Spoiler

Of alt for Reimu~ ;3

 

[Solbliminal]

I think Marisa'd be a good choice.

Spoiler

Of alt for Reimu~ ;3

Realistically speaking, Reimu would likely be the only one who stood a chance out of the roster anyways. Being the face of Touhou and all that jazz. But my heart belongs to Kasen.

 

[Burruni]

I think Marisa'd be a good choice.

Spoiler

Of alt for Reimu~ ;3

As everything pre-6 has basically been retconned out of Existance, Marisa's been as much of a star as Reimu. If not moreso due to being the big bad for GFW where Reimu is entirely absent. Also the fact that, if sheer volume of starring roles of fangames is any gauge, seems to be more of a fan favorite.

And, one major thing.

Everything's better with lasers.

 

[Wintropy]

Incorrect opinion

I know, I was just teasing. ;3

But can she fly?

Without a broomstick?

WITH THE POWER OF LOVE?

EDIT: The quote thing is a joke.

Bu's cool, she gets that I'm just being silly~ ;3

EDIT2: That said, I can see Reimu having a great recovery in reference to the fact that her power is the ability to fly.

Maybe Sakurai will make Marisa an alt and then decide to promote her to a clone before release~? ;3

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hasn't the YKW fever begun to die down due to milking, though? If you look at it one way, YKW and Shovel Knight are polar opposites.

Yokai Watch: Series that somehow became a major thing in Japan for a while, but with declining interest due to milking it with several spinoffs. Borderline unknown in the West.

Trust me, Yokai Watch isn't going to die any time soon. That article overstates the situation in many ways, the franchise is still very popular there, just not as ridiculously talked about as it was before. Every franchise is going to end up with a cooldown at some point like Pokemon once did with the Porygon incident back in 1997. Once Level-5 figures out the situation, I'm sure they'll get back up to their knees again, the franchise has enormous advertising potential.

 

[Burruni]

I know, I was just teasing. ;3

But can she fly?

Without a broomstick?

WITH THE POWER OF LOVE?

EDIT: The quote thing is a joke.

Bu's cool, she gets that I'm just being silly~ ;3

EDIT2: That said, I can see Reimu having a great recovery in reference to the fact that her power is the ability to fly.

Maybe Sakurai will make Marisa an alt and then decide to promote her to a clone before release~? ;3

CAN REIMU FLY AND NOT BE FAT WITHOUT THE POWER OF SOME ANCIENT RELICS OF POWER LEFT BY HER FAMILY INSTEAD OF STUFF SHE ENCHANTED ON HER OWN?!

Edit: This is all a joking matter, those who aren't in on the joke.

 

[Wintropy]

CAN REIMU FLY AND NOT BE FAT WITHOUT THE POWER OF SOME ANCIENT RELICS OF POWER LEFT BY HER FAMILY INSTEAD OF STUFF SHE ENCHANTED ON HER OWN?!

Edit: This is all a joking matter, those who aren't in on the joke.

inb4 it's flandre

Sakurai likes demon children.

 

[Ura]

Shovel Knight being included would be the first decision ever to make me lose respect for Sakurai.

I'm confident it won't happen, though.

This.

Sakurai has done some things that were questionable in my eyes but that would make me lose respect for the guy.

 

[Burruni]

inb4 it's flandre

Sakurai likes demon children.

Inb4 gets a Sanae skin.

Seriously though let's end the Touhou talk xD

 

[Wintropy]

I don't think Shovel Knight would make me lose respect for Sakurai.

Especially considering it'd probably be due to Nintendo's executive decision.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't think any decision he makes would make me lose respect for him, as long as he continues to work very hard on making the best game possible, I'll continue to respect him highly.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Anyway....in terms of 3rd parties & indies only.

Order of my view on who's the most likely;
1.Snake
2.Shovel Knight
3.Shantea
4.Bayonetta
5. Rayman, Bomberman, stuff.

Order of Want
1.Bayonetta
2.Snake
3.Rayman
4.Shantae
5.Dragon Quest something (slime, hero ect)

Snake the highest?

Whoa they're, didn't you read the news?
http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/18/konami-calls-it-quits-on-aaa-console-games-reports-say/

Konami is done with AAA games snake is one of them.

 

[Burruni]

So.

Slight spoiler/what to look forward to.

For the last time we have before the Ballot's closed, I'm going to be posting something I've been working on: A "This Is War" (by Falconshield) styled "Rap battle" situation with 6-line bits of EVERY FIGHTER on this roster (barring Miis).

It has one token Jo-Jo reference given Sakurai being a fan and little references in his posts of the day and choices on animations.

Jesus this has taken me a bit to try to keep it pretty comical and give each character a good in-joke to themselves.

Look forward to it.

Edit: Bonus points if someone can guess which fighter has the JoJo reference beforehand.
Double bonus points if they can guess which fighter AND what JoJo character is referenced, somehow.

Double Edit: I wrote in a second because I needed a rhyme.

 

[Zerp]

I don't think any decision he makes would make me lose respect for him, as long as he continues to work very hard on making the best game possible, I'll continue to respect him highly.

Completely agreed, I can disagree with any decision he makes as much as I want, but in the end, he's working very hard and doing this mainly to see the joy on his fan's faces, not just for the money, he's very worthy of respect. No amount of decisions I disagree with can ever change that.

 

[Aetheri]

It's not like wedon'thaveprecedent for one game characters(at the time, though) already.

You can say that SK is third party and all but still.

It's a different situation for third party characters, Greninja is a Pokemon, who is practically guaranteed to appear in future titles (even the most hated pokemon out there are available in multiple games) even more so with the fact that he's a starter as GameFreak likes to make starters more and more available in future titles (across both X and Y and ORAS you can obtain every single stater pokemon from Gen 1 through 6) Greninja overall is a safe addition in that regard especially since he's still Nintendo owned; Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus and Mother (Like Pokemon) have more than 1 game in their series, unlike Shovel Knight who appeared in the only game for his series if you can call it that...Duck Hunt's got the retro tag, plus he's somewhat iconic for being a ****...

I don't particularly think that one-game wonders have no chance at all (Midna supporter afterall), but if your from only one game that is a third party title that also happens to be the only game of it's series then it's a different story, for all we know Shovel Knight could very well be a flash in the pan...but it could also be the start of a long running series of successful games, we do not know...I'm not entirely sure if this spike in Shovel Knight's popularity is enough to justify his inclusion into smash...My optimism for Indies in general isn't very high to begin with...

All I'm saying is between Shantae and Shovel Knight...I'd prefer Shantae...Do I think she's more deserving? Doesn't matter cuz I think she'd be a more interesting character to play as...

 

[Solbliminal]

I don't think Shovel Knight would make me lose respect for Sakurai.

Especially considering it'd probably be due to Nintendo's executive decision.

I don't think any decision he makes would make me lose respect for him, as long as he continues to work very hard on making the best game possible, I'll continue to respect him highly.

These two have the right idea. I don't think it really makes sense to lose respect for a guy who has spent all of his time and well being on making Smash for us just because one character makes it into the roster you don't like.

 

[Ura]

Maybe "losing respect" was a bit harsh of a statement. More like just being severely disappointed and having extremely low expectations for all future Smash Newcomers.

 

[Solbliminal]

Well I mean... what do you really expect? We are kind of reaching the bottom of the barrel as far as candidates are concerned. And the roster is reaching a point where it needs to stop. To be completely honest, going past 60 characters is already pushing it. Balance is going to get to a point where it is compromised beyond fixing. And I'm not really looking forward to a character roster of over 100 characters. That is a sacrifice towards the game's quality or the workers health.

Besides all that, not all the choices being made will be satisfactory to everyone. And the entire roster isn't going to cater to just a single person, hence variety. You are always going to have characters in the roster who don't suit your taste. Just like some people may not like the characters you enjoy. It is just how things work. Especially in competitive games. If anything they need to just pick a small handful of characters left, and return the remaining vets. That is when they should call it quits. Otherwise you are just asking for a ton of cuts in favor of new characters.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Snake the highest?

Whoa they're, didn't you read the news?
http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/18/konami-calls-it-quits-on-aaa-console-games-reports-say/

Konami is done with AAA games snake is one of them.

Development of AAA games =/= Never using their characters again.

Don't really know why people keep using that as if they're closing their doors or something.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Development of AAA games =/= Never using their characters again.

Don't really know why people keep using that as if they're closing their doors or something.

Because anything popular that can be an obstacle to someone's favorite character must be disregarded for the sake of bias, of course!

Oh and also because people like dissing Snake.

 

[Solbliminal]

It is hilarious, considering Sonic games have been inconsistent and questionable, Pac-Man doesn't really have any noteworthy games outside his arcade style titles, and Mega Man hasn't really had anything in a long time. Yet Snake is the one people pluck out of the litter because "he is out of place".

 

[NintenZ]

I also don't think Namco is getting another character, however as compensation prizes, we'll most likely get a lot of costumes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Edit: Bonus points if someone can guess which fighter has the JoJo reference beforehand.
Double bonus points if they can guess which fighter AND what JoJo character is referenced, somehow.

I get negative points...I don't know what JoJo is.

It is hilarious, considering Sonic games have been inconsistent and questionable, Pac-Man doesn't really have any noteworthy games outside his arcade style titles, and Mega Man hasn't really had anything in a long time. Yet Snake is the one people pluck out of the litter because "he is out of place".

Also, you can't be too realistic looking for smash.
Sure Snake would need to be cartoonified slightly, but it would pretty much be the difference between this and this

I also don't think Namco is getting another character, however as compensation prizes, we'll most likely get a lot of costumes.

Well... Pac-Man does kinda represent all of Namco already, or at least just the arcades. (Lloyd would be cool though. I hate his Mii Costume.)

 

[Ura]

Well I mean... what do you really expect? We are kind of reaching the bottom of the barrel as far as candidates are concerned. And the roster is reaching a point where it needs to stop. To be completely honest, going past 60 characters is already pushing it. Balance is going to get to a point where it is compromised beyond fixing. And I'm not really looking forward to a character roster of over 100 characters. That is a sacrifice towards the game's quality or the workers health.

Besides all that, not all the choices being made will be satisfactory to everyone. And the entire roster isn't going to cater to just a single person, hence variety. You are always going to have characters in the roster who don't suit your taste. Just like some people may not like the characters you enjoy. It is just how things work. Especially in competitive games. If anything they need to just pick a small handful of characters left, and return the remaining vets. That is when they should call it quits. Otherwise you are just asking for a ton of cuts in favor of new characters.

That's true but then again were relatively low on the amount of characters we can get and there's still a bunch of great choices to chose from in the ballot. It would be a crime if these characters had to take a back seat to Shovel Knight of all people.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

Third parties is such a difficult subject. I say some people are making it a bit more difficult that what it really needs to be. I mean sure you can say X company has much more better relationship with Nintendo but really is history and having good relationships with Nintendo all it has to be in order for third parties to make it in. Not really. If you look, at all third parties companies that's being represented in Smash now they've all had their ups and downs with Nintendo we may as well take them out of the game. Oh wait. I don't think having good relationships is how these third parties get in, but it because they are big enough and well known enough to bring much more of a broader audience than just Nintendo fans. Not only that it's all about profit at the end of the day, it doesn't always mean having "good working reltionships". It all about who can help sell and push this game.

 

[NintenZ]

I get negative points...I don't know what JoJo is.


Also, you can't be too realistic looking for smash.
Sure Snake would need to be cartoonified slightly, but it would pretty much be the difference between this and this


Well... Pac-Man does kinda represent all of Namco already, or at least just the arcades. (Lloyd would be cool though. I hate his Mii Costume.)

Well there are other characters, such as Klanoa or the Idolmasters (particularly Iori)