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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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Burruni

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Yeah, it seems pretty unbelievable, it took me a lot to convince me that the rumors may have some sort of credibility.
At this point, a leak needs one of two things to be believable.

A) Data files. Because this is very easy to back up across our various data mining sources.

B) Photos/Video of /proper gameplay/. Remember how debatable the ESRB leak was when it was just the images of roster and stage select? The moment when we got gameplay a lot of detractors (myself included) sighed in surrender.

The fact that we have people try to pass by with text rumors or shoddy art in pictures is almost an insult at this point.
 

NintenZ

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At this point, a leak needs one of two things to be believable.

A) Data files. Because this is very easy to back up across our various data mining sources.

B) Photos/Video of /proper gameplay/. Remember how debatable the ESRB leak was when it was just the images of roster and stage select? The moment when we got gameplay a lot of detractors (myself included) sighed in surrender.

The fact that we have people try to pass by with text rumors or shoddy art in pictures is almost an insult at this point.
Picture and image leaks of DLC don't exist, they either are leaked through text rumors, or through data mining.
 

NintenZ

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I'm refering to people trying stuff like this.
Exactly, they're always fake if they're leaked through picture or video, it's only true through certain text rumors (cause not all of those are true) , and through data mining.
 

Burruni

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Exactly, they're always fake if they're leaked through picture or video, it's only true through certain text rumors (cause not all of those are true) , and through data mining.
Answer me this: Do we have a text leak that came separate of Data Mining that was correct about DLC?
I remember Roy/Ryu data mining for the sound files, then Japan basically breaking into the DLC a day early, then finally NoE giving the preview of the DLC wave 3 the night before it went live. Those are the only proven DLC leaks/previews that I remember.
 

NintenZ

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Answer me this: Do we have a text leak that came separate of Data Mining that was correct about DLC?
I remember Roy/Ryu data mining for the sound files, then Japan basically breaking into the DLC a day early, then finally NoE giving the preview of the DLC wave 3 the night before it went live. Those are the only proven DLC leaks/previews that I remember.
I mean in other games too.
 
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Picture and image leaks of DLC don't exist, they either are leaked through text rumors, or through data mining.
We went over this in Nintenzone. Just because it's DLC doesn't suddenly mean foolish employees aren't allowed near the work they need to do.

Just because it hasn't happened in the past doesn't mean it can't happen now.
I'm not saying it will happen but it could happen.
 
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NintenZ

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We went over this in Nintenzone. Just because it's DLC doesn't suddenly mean foolish employees aren't allowed near the work they need to do.

Just because it hasn't happened in the past doesn't mean it can't happen now.
I'm not saying it will happen but it could happen.
That's true, but the odds of it happening are slim to none. It's about as Sonic Boom Fire and Ice being game of the year.
 
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Pazzo.

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What is this weird phrase 'winning the ballot' about anyway?

We'll probably get multiple DLC characters for SSB4, and we know the ballot will influence newcomers in SSB5.
 

NintenZ

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What is this weird phrase 'winning the ballot' about anyway?

We'll probably get multiple DLC characters for SSB4, and we know the ballot will influence newcomers in SSB5.
Some people think this is all just a popularity poll, like Etika, so they being up the ballot "winner"

And everything else you said is correct.
 

Burruni

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What is this weird phrase 'winning the ballot' about anyway?

We'll probably get multiple DLC characters for SSB4, and we know the ballot will influence newcomers in SSB5.
I'm pretty sure most of us expect Wolf, K. Rool, and a few other prime DLC picks at this phase of speculation. The fact that the ballot will INFLUENCE newcomers for Smash 5 is somewhat assuring, but it's far more so to have a character you're very invested into already in the game.

Ganon was the #5 most requested newcomer for Melee. We have only ThunderCougarFalconDorf. Toad was #9. We only have Peach's B.
 
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Talpr1

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That's true, but the odds of it happening are slim to none. It's about as Sonic Boom Fire and Ice being game of the year.
But it happened before. We've had video gameplay of Roy, Ryu and Lucas a day before they were released.
 

Burruni

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I'm now more upset by how overlooked Ganon has become when he was standing at a #5 request.

I'll be over here fuming while we discuss in circles.
 

Talpr1

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I'm now more upset by how overlooked Ganon has become when he was standing at a #5 request.

I'll be over here fuming while we discuss in circles.
Probably it has to do with the fact that his human form was the only feasible choice for Melee and Samurai thinking it was enough Ganon for Brawl and Smash 4. It is unfortunately too late to change his opinion via the ballot, but I hope that at least his support becomes strong enough for Smash 5.

Related rant: how on earth isn't Ganon allowed to have his own thread when WarioLand Wario can?
 
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Smooth Criminal

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Personally, I think Nintendo is gonna start playing DLC close to its proverbial (metaphorical?) chest from here on out. They already suspended updates to Splatoon because of datamining there (not long, mind; it happened for like day around a month and half ago?), and oddly enough there hasn't been any placeholder data for the Mario Maker stage that would have been dredged up by the usual suspects.

Mind you, leaks can and still will happen. Just take that grain of salt with a grain of salt.

Smooth Criminal
 
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Zerp

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Related rant: how on earth isn't Ganon allowed to have his own thread when WarioLand Wario can?
I should make the RBY Jigglypuff, GSC Jigglypuff, RSE Jigglypuff, DPP Jigglypuff and BWB2W2 Jigglypuff thread since it's totally not the same character.:awesome:

Seriously though, if that's true then that's completely ridiculous that Ganon can't have one of his own. Especially since you know, Wario is quite literally Wario, regardless of what game he's in, while Ganon's a completely different form/incarnation of Ganondorf.
I'm guessing the reason he's not allowed is that Ganondorf's final smash is his TP Icarnation, but since we have Tlink and Link, I don't see why any other incarnation of Ganon is banned from discussion, might as well just ban Young Link as well then in that case.
 

Burruni

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Probably it has to do with the fact that his human form was the only feasible choice for Melee and Samurai thinking it was enough Ganon for Brawl and Smash 4. It is unfortunately too late to change his opinion via the ballot, but I hope that at least his support becomes strong enough for Smash 5.

Related rant: how on earth isn't Ganon allowed to have his own thread when WarioLand Wario can?
He's caught in an awkward "legality" of how the threads worked out in the phase for DLC. I think it was done namely to try to hold grounds of people not crafting threads for deconfirmed characters like "Super Metroid Ridley," "Wolf Link & Midna," "Great Lord Chrom," or things like that.

Trust me, by the time of Smash 5 I'm going to be at the forefront of Ganon rallying.

Edit: And Viridi is wrong in the guidance! Her "Ganon Canon" states that there are many different Ganons when they all are the sole life of Ganondorf (transformed into Ganon ultimately) across the timelines, not a series of incarnations akin to Link and Zelda.
 
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Talpr1

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I should make the RBY Jigglypuff, GSC Jigglypuff, RSE Jigglypuff, DPP Jigglypuff and BWB2W2 Jigglypuff thread since it's totally not the same character.:awesome:

Seriously though, if that's true then that's completely ridiculous that Ganon can't have one of his own. Especially since you know, Wario is quite literally Wario, regardless of what game he's in, while Ganon's a completely different form/incarnation of Ganondorf.
I'm guessing the reason he's not allowed is that Ganondorf's final smash is his TP Icarnation, but since we have Tlink and Link, I don't see why any other incarnation of Ganon is banned from discussion, might as well just ban Young Link as well then in that case.
This actually reminded me that Jigglypuff doesn't represent its new Fairy type in any way in Smash 4. Not even with something trivial like Play Rough as a Pound custom or Disarming Voice as a Sing Custom. This bugged me quite a bit when I found it out, but I can understand it if Sakurai decided what custom moves should've been made before he had the possibility to know about Fairy type.
He's caught in an awkward "legality" of how the threads worked out in the phase for DLC. I think it was done namely to try to hold grounds of people not crafting threads for deconfirmed characters like "Super Metroid Ridley," "Wolf Link & Midna," "Great Lord Chrom," or things like that.

Trust me, by the time of Smash 5 I'm going to be at the forefront of Ganon rallying.

Edit: And Viridi is wrong in the guidance! Her "Ganon Canon" states that there are many different Ganons when they all are the sole life of Ganondorf (transformed into Ganon ultimately) across the timelines, not a series of incarnations akin to Link and Zelda.
But isn't there a Wolf Link & Midna thread open somewhere?
 

Burruni

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This actually reminded me that Jigglypuff doesn't represent its new Fairy type in any way in Smash 4. Not even with something trivial like Play Rough as a Pound custom or Disarming Voice as a Sing Custom. This bugged me quite a bit when I found it out, but I can understand it if Sakurai decided what custom moves should've been made before he had the possibility to know about Fairy type.

But isn't there a Wolf Link & Midna thread open somewhere?
Yes, and it was locked the day it was made. For that very reason.

Edit: Just gonna toss in my Ganon moveset to add some meat to this post.

Statistics
Height: Slightly taller than :4bowser:
Weight: 125 (Between :4bowser: & :4dk:)
Ground Speed: 1.15 (Equal to :4robinm::4robinf:)
Air Speed: 0.8 (:4kirby:, also would have the low jump height of :4ganondorf:)

Basic Moves
Jab Combo: Just a strong punch with his empty hand (:4ganondorf: shared)
Dash Attack: Lunges forward in a shoulder bash (:4ganondorf: shared)

Get-Up Attack: Creates a pulse of dark magic before getting up.
Ledge Attack: Stabs out his trident while climbing up.

U-Tilt: Headbutt (:4dedede:)
F-Tilt: Swings out his trident like a bat, one-handed.
D-Tilt: Stabs at the ground infront of him (:4marth:)

U-Smash: Tucks his arms in before leaping to stab with his spiked shoulder pads (:4bowser:)
F-Smash: Impaling stab of the trident (:4marth:)
D-Smash: Slightly jumps from the ground before stomping, causing a small rupture around him (:4charizard:)

U-Air: :4shulk:'s overhead stab.
N-Air: :4palutena:'s staff twirl.
F-Air: Arcing foward swing of the trident (:4dedede:)
B-Air: Flings out his back towards the enemy (:bowser2:'s old B-Air)
D-Air: :4ganondorf: THE THUNDER STOMP!!!

Grab & Pummel: A simple reach out and seize in his massive hand, headbutting for damage.
U-Throw: A slight toss up before a large stab upwards with his trident.
F-Throw: Simple toss ahead.
B-Throw: Turns around while throwing.
D-Throw: Slams the opponent to the floor before impaling them with his trident, grinding the points into them (:4bowserjr:)

Specials
Up B: :4palutena:'s Warp fits him to a tee.
Neutral B: Pyro-Keese - Ganon charges magic, gaining a flaming orb around him at a maximum of 5. Akin to :4robinm:'s Thunder tomes, the charges are not stored if between thresholds. Once orbs are present, hard pressing the button will resume charging but lighter presses will have an orb turn into a pyrokinetic bat of slight homing properties, subsequent presses for spam. Explodes into a small pillar of flame when hitting terrain but just fizzle out against shields.
Side B: Dead Man's Volley - Fires a dark orb around the size of a fully charged Charge Shot :4samus: Shadow Ball :4mewtwo:Aura Sphere :4lucario: which shares the property of being repelled by attacks of :4dedede:'s gordo which increases in speed and damage with each reflect.
Down B: A :4mario:cape which solely reflects projectiles but comes out faster and lasts for a very short duration. The main use being for Dead Man's Volley.

Final Smash: Ganon's Fury - Ganon transforms into the dual-swords form of himself from Ocarina of Time, having Giga Bowser size and super armor while retaining the ability to run and jump. Presses of A are fairly quick horizontal slices in 1-2 combo and B does a large overhead swing with both blades.

Animations
Entrance: A large dark portal appears on the ground and Ganon rises from it.

Taunt 1: Ganon snarls, raisin one fist in triumph.
Taunt 2: Ganon laughs while the 8-bit message "Game Over" appears overhead in white text with a black outline.
Taunt 3: Disappears and re-appears with a twirl of his cape, akin to :4metaknight:'s down b.

Victory 1: Ganon holds his trident overhead, shaft in both hands as he pumps up and down.
Victory 2: Ganon stabs his spear into the ground as he laughs in victory.
Victory 3: Ganon tightens a fist as dark energy flickers around him, staring at the screen.

Defeat: Ganon is only visible from the shoulders up, leering with anger and panting.
 
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This actually reminded me that Jigglypuff doesn't represent its new Fairy type in any way in Smash 4. Not even with something trivial like Play Rough as a Pound custom or Disarming Voice as a Sing Custom. This bugged me quite a bit when I found it out, but I can understand it if Sakurai decided what custom moves should've been made before he had the possibility to know about Fairy type.

But isn't there a Wolf Link & Midna thread open somewhere?
Well there is this. . .http://smashboards.com/threads/midna-for-smash-4-dlc-support-midna-and-get-wolf-link-free.402136/
But it's off in a separate group. (my group)
 

Pazzo.

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This actually reminded me that Jigglypuff doesn't represent its new Fairy type in any way in Smash 4. Not even with something trivial like Play Rough as a Pound custom or Disarming Voice as a Sing Custom. This bugged me quite a bit when I found it out, but I can understand it if Sakurai decided what custom moves should've been made before he had the possibility to know about Fairy type.

But isn't there a Wolf Link & Midna thread open somewhere?
She's got ribbons. That makes her a fairy. :laugh:

But seriously he probably just didn't find out about the new type until latter.
 

Burruni

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As a :039: player, just change Jigglypuff's final smash into some Majora's Mask tier Moonblast Apocolypse thing and just call it a day for her type representation.
 

True Blue Warrior

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As a :039: player, just change Jigglypuff's final smash into some Majora's Mask tier Moonblast Apocolypse thing and just call it a day for her type representation.
I wouldn't mind her Neutral B being changed to a Fairy-type move considering how unimportant it is to Jigglypuff's gameplay style.
 

TimidKitsune129

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Despite getting the Fairy typing in Gen VI, Jigglypuff actually can't learn many Fairy type moves.

It can only learn one Fairy move through level-up (Disarming Voice), only one Fairy move through TM (Dazzling Gleam), and only one Fairy move through breeding with the Aromatisse line (Misty Terrain).

:174: learns Charm and Sweet Kiss though, but to be fair, they were Normal type moves prior to Gen VI. :p
 

Wintropy

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Despite getting the Fairy typing in Gen VI, Jigglypuff actually can't learn many Fairy type moves.

It can only learn one Fairy move through level-up (Disarming Voice), only one Fairy move through TM (Dazzling Gleam), and only one Fairy move through breeding with the Aromatisse line (Misty Terrain).

:174: learns Charm and Sweet Kiss though, but to be fair, they were Normal type moves prior to Gen VI. :p
*Mic drop*

;3

Isn't Shadow Ball Ghost-type?

Spookity~ :4mewtwo:
 

Zard lover Doom Desire

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THIS POST WILL BE PROVEN RIGHT AND IT IS THE DEFINITE LAW OF THE BALLOT: The fighter that gets in Smash through the ballot will either be Shovel Knight, Shantae, King K Rool, or Wolf. If it is ANY other character (and it won't be) then there's a large group of people not talking about who they voted for.
 
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THIS POST WILL BE PROVEN RIGHT AND IT IS THE DEFINITE LAW OF THE BALLOT: The fighter that gets in Smash through the ballot will either be Shovel Knight, Shantae, King K Rool, or Wolf. If it is ANY other character (and it won't be) then there's a large group of people not talking about who they voted for.
Isaac and Bandana Dee have also received a lot of votes, judging by their popularity (and posts on Dee's thread, haven't visited Isaac's thread). Snake as well, although Konami's situation doesn't do any good for his chances.
 
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Zerp

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THIS POST WILL BE PROVEN RIGHT AND IT IS THE DEFINITE LAW OF THE BALLOT: The fighter that gets in Smash through the ballot will either be Shovel Knight, Shantae, King K Rool, or Wolf. If it is ANY other character (and it won't be) then there's a large group of people not talking about who they voted for.
Bandana Dee, Isaac, Krystal and Dixie Kong all wanted to drop in and say hi. Seriously though, are you sure it will be proven right? I really dislike speaking in absolutes because well, as much as we all can speculate about how likely a character is, none of us actually know who's next, unless if your a ex developer from SORA or have other connections to Sakurai, then yeah, you'd probably know.
 

KimKarsmashian

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This isn't sarcasm or bait: how did Shantae go from being a nobody to on some people's "shoo-in" lists? I've seen people saying she's "important to Nintendo's history." How? Because her company is loyal to Nintendo? That makes them, well, loyal, not important. And I doubt they're the only loyal 3rd party. Did Shantae's GBC game totally change things for the GBC or other series or something?

Normally, I try not to say "I've never heard of it, so it can't be popular/impactful." I never heard of Bandanna Dee, but he has shown up a lot in recent Kirby games, so that's my ignorance showing. But with Shantae, I feel like there's some huge inside joke going on and I'm the only one who's not in on it. She went from being someone I'd never heard of to someone "important in Nintendo's history?" Has gaming scholarship changed that much in the time I've been away? Everything about her just throws me for a loop. I am genuinely befuddled. :v
 

Schnee117

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This isn't sarcasm or bait: how did Shantae go from being a nobody to on some people's "shoo-in" lists? I've seen people saying she's "important to Nintendo's history." How? Because her company is loyal to Nintendo? That makes them, well, loyal, not important. And I doubt they're the only loyal 3rd party. Did Shantae's GBC game totally change things for the GBC or other series or something?

Normally, I try not to say "I've never heard of it, so it can't be popular/impactful." I never heard of Bandanna Dee, but he has shown up a lot in recent Kirby games, so that's my ignorance showing. But with Shantae, I feel like there's some huge inside joke going on and I'm the only one who's not in on it. She went from being someone I'd never heard of to someone "important in Nintendo's history?" Has gaming scholarship changed that much in the time I've been away? Everything about her just throws me for a loop. I am genuinely befuddled. :v
Because Wayforward did some shenanigans on Twitter like "See you in Smash!"
 

Pazzo.

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It's funny how a single statement can change people's better judgement.

Banjo & Kazooie also come to mind here.
 

BKupa666

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People have said that the ballot has turned speculation into an election, and I'll agree while throwing an additional similarity onto the table: characters/candidates that stay in the conversation despite minimal support as "establishment" candidates. And characters/candidates who go through phases of being a "shoo-in" or "frontrunner" before barely getting attention during debates/forum discussions.
 
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Pazzo.

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People have said that the ballot has turned speculation into an election, and I'll agree while throwing an additional similarity onto the table: characters/candidates that stay in the conversation despite minimal support as "establishment" candidates. And characters/candidates who go through phases of being a "shoo-in" or "frontrunner" before barely getting attention during debates/forum discussions.
In your opinion, has this cycle diminished the value of Smash Speculation?
 

Argos

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This isn't sarcasm or bait: how did Shantae go from being a nobody to on some people's "shoo-in" lists? I've seen people saying she's "important to Nintendo's history." How? Because her company is loyal to Nintendo? That makes them, well, loyal, not important. And I doubt they're the only loyal 3rd party. Did Shantae's GBC game totally change things for the GBC or other series or something?

Normally, I try not to say "I've never heard of it, so it can't be popular/impactful." I never heard of Bandanna Dee, but he has shown up a lot in recent Kirby games, so that's my ignorance showing. But with Shantae, I feel like there's some huge inside joke going on and I'm the only one who's not in on it. She went from being someone I'd never heard of to someone "important in Nintendo's history?" Has gaming scholarship changed that much in the time I've been away? Everything about her just throws me for a loop. I am genuinely befuddled. :v
I basically agree, but loyalty by Western developers is a precious resource at this transitional stage in Nintendo's history, especially when they seem to be trying to become more friendly for indies.
 
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This isn't sarcasm or bait: how did Shantae go from being a nobody to on some people's "shoo-in" lists? I've seen people saying she's "important to Nintendo's history." How? Because her company is loyal to Nintendo? That makes them, well, loyal, not important. And I doubt they're the only loyal 3rd party. Did Shantae's GBC game totally change things for the GBC or other series or something?

Normally, I try not to say "I've never heard of it, so it can't be popular/impactful." I never heard of Bandanna Dee, but he has shown up a lot in recent Kirby games, so that's my ignorance showing. But with Shantae, I feel like there's some huge inside joke going on and I'm the only one who's not in on it. She went from being someone I'd never heard of to someone "important in Nintendo's history?" Has gaming scholarship changed that much in the time I've been away? Everything about her just throws me for a loop. I am genuinely befuddled. :v
It's the magic of a bandwagon. One statement, action, or event and suddenly everyone is and always has been a fan of a character. Rayman and Geno quickly spring to mind.
 

Pazzo.

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It's the magic of a bandwagon. One statement, action, or event and suddenly everyone is and always has been a fan of a character. Rayman and Geno quickly spring to mind.
Post-Robin reveal is also one of those bandwagon moments.

Right now, it's Shovel Knight, but be darn sure whoever's revealed next will suddenly have a lot of fans.
 

Talpr1

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And characters/candidates who go through phases of being a "shoo-in" or "frontrunner" before barely getting attention during debates/forum discussions.
So what are you trying to say is that Shantae is actually Donald Trump?
 
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