Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[BluePikmin11]

Ah ok, thanks. Done my part now in voting for all the characters.

Be sure to share the poll to other Smash fans. Thanks!

 

[Pazzo.]

Well I still feel like things would be a whole lot simpler if it were Nintendo characters only.

By definition of simple, it completely would.

But then we wouldn't have awesome inclusions like .

 

[BKupa666]

I fail to see the difference, save that you're narrowing it down to one character rather than a wider assortment. I'm guilty of thinking about K. Rool in this way too. I'd rather him get in than anyone else from DKC because (imo) he's wayyyyyyyyy cooler and more recognizable than most of the Kongs not named Donkey, Diddy, Dixie, or Cranky.

(But if we don't get him, well, c'est la vie, that's that. Another character for me to derp around with from a franchise I like! Assuming we even get another DKC rep, which I hope we do.)

Look. Not saying you're in the wrong or anything for thinking this way, or hell, thinking any way (if I want to widen the umbrella a bit) about who and what should get in the game. I just don't think it's entirely fair deriding the people for thinking broadly about representation of a franchise (or genre) as a whole. No it's not necessary, of course, but it's not entirely wrong, either.

Smooth Criminal

A lot is a matter of personal observation, absolutely. I just think that, even for the people saying "DK needs [nameless faceless soulless] reps," it makes sense in terms of giving one of Nintendo's most major franchises the spotlight it has had very seldomly in a crossover predominantly about Nintendo games. "Indie reps," on the other hand, is all about lowering the high standards for third party guests essentially to the ground level (or "widening the umbrella" if you're all for Smash becoming a representation of everything under the sun). No harm, no foul at all for people supporting who they like, I just see a noticeable difference between the groups in that regard.

 

[Pazzo.]

There's a fine line between '3rd Party Nintendo All-Stars', and 'Random 3rd party'.

It seems like someone forgot their glasses, because it seems that people interpret that line as rather thin...

For instance: Shovel Knight and Tamaki's 'leak'.

But that's just my opinion, and should be taken as such.

 

[Argos]

I'd be pretty happy with Shovel Knight because the game is pretty great and he has a cool moveset which would be fun to see translated to smash, but I realize that's just 100% personal bias and it would probably open the floodgates to a whole cavalcade of options that I wouldn't welcome.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Everyone says now, "SHOVEL KNIGHT COULD NEVER GET IN!"...but what if he did? Then what would become of the glorious speculators who know all?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Everyone says now, "SHOVEL KNIGHT COULD NEVER GET IN!"...but what if he did? Then what would become of the glorious speculators who know all?

A day of pure, unbridled rage and banning. A few more days of lesser rage. about a week of simmering.

And finally eternal praise towards Sakurai for such a unique addition. Such is the cycle of speculation (unless you are a clone or a = FE/KI character in which case **** you.)

 

[NintenZ]

I want to know where this was pulled from because I think we'd know of a franchise that's sold beyond 150 million (Sonic's current total series numbers). Or are you talking general sales per game?

Vg charts is known to be widley inaccurate, but I'm sure someone knows the numbers.

 

[False Sense]

Everyone says now, "SHOVEL KNIGHT COULD NEVER GET IN!"...but what if he did? Then what would become of the glorious speculators who know all?

Same thing that happened to everyone that preached the absolute holy word of Gematsu when Robin and Lucina came along.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Same thing that happened to everyone that preached the absolute holy word of Gematsu when Robin and Lucina came along.

Can we not bring that up... People still say its real.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I don't think the Shovel Knight leak would be outdated information. :9

 

[DJ3DS]

Can we not bring that up... People still say its real.

I mean, let's be real now.

Gematsu has an incredible track record. The only bits it got wrong are things that quite possibly got changed after said leaker got his info. But nope, totally fake. We're not falling for that. Meanwhile, Smashboards soils itself every week about people making up fake text leaks on 4chan for a laugh.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Same thing that happened to everyone that preached the absolute holy word of Gematsu when Robin and Lucina came along.

To be fair, Gematsu still meshes with Robin and Lucina perfectly when you take the fact that Sakurai has specifically said Chrom was going to be the character before he realized how much more fun Robin would be. It was outdated, not false.

Everyone says now, "SHOVEL KNIGHT COULD NEVER GET IN!"...but what if he did? Then what would become of the glorious speculators who know all?

As one of said glorious speculators, I'd have to own up to my mistakes. Shovel Knight could never get in based on what has been established thus far, in terms of 3rd-parties needing to be worldwide gaming icons that have been around for more than 15 years. Should Shovel Knight become a character, that criteria becomes an outdated pattern rather than a guideline and speculation will have to readjust around that newfound fact that indies can get into Smash.

Until then, much like actual science (as far from science speculating a video game series actually is), it makes sense to follow the lain foundations of what we know thus far. Theorizing change is fine, but it's arguably worse than the "glorious" speculators who sit-tight in the anti-Shovel Knight camp when said hypothesis is presented as a movement rather than the hypothesis it is. We're all taking guesses here, discouraging people who attempt to shut down new ideas is pretty close-minded in itself in that it disregards what we already know simply because it can change. Smash speculation is opinion-making weaponized with observational logic, after all.

 

[False Sense]

I don't think the Shovel Knight leak would be outdated information. :9

To be fair, Gematsu still meshes with Robin and Lucina perfectly when you take the fact that Sakurai has specifically said Chrom was going to be the character before he realized how much more fun Robin would be. It was outdated, not false.

Mind you, this is in the context of "how people would react to x after saying it's impossible," which doesn't actually have to do with whether or not the leak was legitimate.

So let's not go opening up that can of worms, shall we?

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Mind you, this is in the context of "how people would react to x after saying it's impossible," which doesn't actually have to do with whether or not the leak was legitimate.

So let's not go opening up that can of worms, shall we?

Ah. Missed that context. That's a can of worms I'd gladly leave sealed.

I'm against Shovel Knight at the moment under the basis of what's already been established for 3rd-parties, but I'll definitely change my mind and welcome him with open arms if Shovel Knight gets in. Being exempt from the salt without having been a SK supporter from the start, I'll have a lot of fun watching that riot it as a neutral party, ehue!

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Smash speculation is opinion-making weaponized with observational logic, after all.

Or a vain attempt at being clairvoyant.

Smooth Criminal

 

[BluePikmin11]

Should the leak be true, I'd be glad my arguments regarding non-iconic third parties paid off big time.

 

[Frostwraith]

People still think Gematsu is a matter of real or fake, despite being possible that leaks can contain both true and fake information, and that the development of a large scale project is bound to many changes in ideas?

The planned game and the finished game are two very distinct entities. Many things may be the same (after all, it's a plan that is laid out and executed), but there are ideas that are dropped (such as Chrom as a playable character) and others that come up during development (for example, the 3 clones that were meant to be costumes). Some ideas are sacrificed for others due to limitations in time and resources (notably, the Ice Climbers were dropped to ensure an equal roster between versions).

These are the kind of things that happen in almost any project, not just games. More often than not, the planned ideas don't yield the exact same result as expected, which may not be necessarily a bad thing.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Honestly, I think Gematsu is real not because "OMG CHROUS KIDS TOTALLY GOING TO BE IN SMASH" but because I feel there are too many things going for it. Sure, like Frostwraith said, some parts can be true or fake, but I still feel there is still evidence.

I know a lot of people bring up, "whats the points?" Well, besides saying the same thing for speculation to begin with, the answer is because it is interesting. The idea that Chrom and Chrous Kids were potential characters is an interesting thought. I love the background stuff on why games are made the way they are. Especially as a person who wants to get into game design myself. It's also interesting to think why they were scrapped.

Sure, it comes with fights and debates, but I mean just look at this thread. Speculation is just that attractive of a beast. The reason people continue to support and talk about Gematsu is the same as the reason you guys are still in this thread.

 

[Pazzo.]

Frostwraith

Excellent point. Leaks never have to be 100% correct or false. For instance: the recent Shovel Knight amiibo leaks.

Or a vain attempt at being clairvoyant.

Smooth Criminal

Smash Speculation in a nutshell.

Ah. Missed that context. That's a can of worms I'd gladly leave sealed.

I'm against Shovel Knight at the moment under the basis of what's already been established for 3rd-parties, but I'll definitely change my mind and welcome him with open arms if Shovel Knight gets in. Being exempt from the salt without having been a SK supporter from the start, I'll have a lot of fun watching that riot it as a neutral party, ehue!

There are three things you don't discuss with friends:

Politics, Religion, and the Gematsu leak.

But seriously, you have a good attitude when it comes to SK.

Same thing that happened to everyone that preached the absolute holy word of Gematsu when Robin and Lucina came along.

I knew I'd be brought up.

You just beat me saying it myself.

 

[The Light Music Club]

To be fair, Gematsu still meshes with Robin and Lucina perfectly when you take the fact that Sakurai has specifically said Chrom was going to be the character before he realized how much more fun Robin would be. It was outdated, not false.

Your forgetting the part where Robin had been chosen by the time the game was pitched to Nintendo. Gematsu only had the info on Nintendo's E3 event, and then made another leak afterwards.

But whatever. I don't want to say anymore on the matter.


So I'd like to ask the question, if we do get an Indie out of Shantae and Shovel Knight, who would you rather have and who do you find more likely?

 

[Pazzo.]

Your forgetting the part where Robin had been chosen by the time the game was pitched to Nintendo. Gematsu only had the info on Nintendo's E3 event, and then made another leak afterwards.

But whatever. I don't want to say anymore on the matter.


So I'd like to ask the question, if we do get an Indie out of Shantae and Shovel Knight, who would you rather have and who do you find more likely?

Shantae or Shovel Knight...?

Shovel Knight. I prefer the neo-retro style his game has going for him.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Your forgetting the part where Robin had been chosen by the time the game was pitched to Nintendo. Gematsu only had the info on Nintendo's E3 event, and then made another leak afterwards.

But whatever. I don't want to say anymore on the matter.


So I'd like to ask the question, if we do get an Indie out of Shantae and Shovel Knight, who would you rather have and who do you find more likely?

Neither Shovel Knight I guess. He has some interesting stuff with magic and shovelry I guess. Plus he just looks cooler.

I would say Shovel Knight is more likely only because of Tamaki. If that falls through then they both have a chance of 0 making them equally likely imo.

 

[~Krystal~]

Your forgetting the part where Robin had been chosen by the time the game was pitched to Nintendo. Gematsu only had the info on Nintendo's E3 event, and then made another leak afterwards.

But whatever. I don't want to say anymore on the matter.


So I'd like to ask the question, if we do get an Indie out of Shantae and Shovel Knight, who would you rather have and who do you find more likely?

I prefer Shantae tbh, but I think SK is more likely at this point.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

If I had to pick between the two of them, I'd say Shovel Knight mainly for the neo-retro trappings and the like.

Smooth Criminal

 

[BKupa666]

It seems there are people who want to "watch the fireworks, eat the popcorn, etc. etc." and stick it in speculators' faces when a character like Shovel Knight is revealed, and yet get ants in their pants whenever anyone comes in here and argues "anything can happen! anything can happen!", an argument upon which characters like Shovel Knight lean heavily. Seems a bit contradictory to me.

Pazzo. Yep, definitely, right and wrong can be, and frequently is, quite fluid with legitimate leaks, and with character chances in general, for the most part. It seems as though you get vocal people with leaks, especially on the "NO ITS NOT TRUE" side who, if they detect even the slightest possibility of a drop of blood in the water, they strike, sometimes prematurely.

Remember back when "it was totally the Texas Sharpshooter Theory with Sal Romano guessing Wii Fit Trainer, Mega Man and Villager/Animal Crossing Boy?" How "Gematsu is wrong because they would never ever add Pac-Man because of the Law of Diminishing Returns and because no one likes him?" Nowadays, those people are probably convinced that Gematsu was 100% wrong because it didn't get every single last character, and the two characters it missed were only heavily alluded to by various interviews/coding.

And let's not even start about everyone writing off the ESRB leak because of render irregularities and Wario's eye. Who knows what reasoning will pop up if something spills out for upcoming DLC...that's why discussing this can help; it can prepare us to maybe repeat history with a just a little less fanaticism.

Dear god I just dropped a leak bomb in here, didn't I

 

[Smooth Criminal]

BKupa666

Little Mac's face on Shulk, anyone?

Smooth Criminal

 

[BKupa666]

BKupa666

Little Mac's face on Shulk, anyone?

Smooth Criminal

I was thinking more along the lines of Doc's render being photoshopped from an existing one and Duck Hunt being some modified Pluto. Because there -were- actually trolls on 4chan messing around with Shulk's render to try and falsify leaks based off of the real one.

Especially on GameFAQs, "SHULK IS LITTLE MAC" is often brought up as a meme, but it ended up being at least slightly vindicated when the classily-named "Mother****ing Leaker" went down in flames.

Man, I only just remembered his name, plus "Leaker Bro" in responding to this. What creativity, eh?

 

[Pazzo.]

BKupa666

Little Mac's face on Shulk, anyone?

Smooth Criminal

Duck Hunt's Duck is so fake.

Please.

But enough on leaks. We have Mario and Luigi for that.

DLC! How long will it last? Into next year?

 

[A Distant Demon]

At least he "logic" used in an attempt to kill off ESRB wasn't as bad as the mental gymnastics used to keep "Tower of Smash" on life support.

*shudders* the worse time of speculation ever. Rampant straw grasping everywhere.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

If we're picking favorites I'd pick Shantae over Shovel Knight. I haven't even played a single Shantae game and I adore Shovel Knight. In the end, though, I think Shantae has made more of an impact on gaming and Nintendo consoles. Shantae's first game was on the GameBoy if I recall correctly with the sequel being planned for both GameBoy Advance and DS before being moved to DSiWare, which says a lot for WayForwards dedication to Nintendo with only the most recent game being available multi-plat. So, in theory, I think Shantae deserves it; I think she's more likely; and I would prefer her even though I have yet to play a Shantae game.

Shovel Knight I adore. I think he's one of the coolest characters to come out of the Indy scene in a long time. He doesn't deserve it though. He's a one game character that has been released on every console currently active. Sure he has an Amiibo. The thing is it isn't being made by Nintendo, in fact, it's being made in the same factories as Disney Infinity toys. It's not a stretch of the imagination to think that Nintendo has also licensed out Amiibo functionality to other companies as well, not including Activision and Yacht Club.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Your forgetting the part where Robin had been chosen by the time the game was pitched to Nintendo. Gematsu only had the info on Nintendo's E3 event, and then made another leak afterwards.

But whatever. I don't want to say anymore on the matter.


So I'd like to ask the question, if we do get an Indie out of Shantae and Shovel Knight, who would you rather have and who do you find more likely?

I would prefer Shantae, I do really like her as a character. That and I haven't played Shovel Knight yet.

 

[Delzethin]

DLC! How long will it last? Into next year?

Honestly? I could see it going another year.

I think people are getting really pessimistic about Sakurai's "I don't know how long we'll be able to keep the team together" statement. The guy's made similar statements in years past, only to surpass them completely. Remember when he said he didn't think Smash 4's roster would grow much from Brawl's, only for it to gain 10-12 new characters (depending on how you look at the Mii Fighters) in its base roster? Remember when he didn't think DLC was in the cards, then it became "I want to finish the base games as much as possible, then we'll see", then he went all in? He makes defensive statements all the time...and it's probably so that in the event of something going wrong, it doesn't look like he's let his fans down.

So honestly? I think there's a very plausible chance we'll be seeing waves of DLC even as late as this time next year...and five or more Ballot characters can definitely happen.

As can two pre-Ballot characters getting revealed in the next week or so.

 

[Kenith]

If we're picking favorites I'd pick Shantae over Shovel Knight. I haven't even played a single Shantae game and I adore Shovel Knight. In the end, though, I think Shantae has made more of an impact on gaming and Nintendo consoles. Shantae's first game was on the GameBoy if I recall correctly with the sequel being planned for both GameBoy Advance and DS before being moved to DSiWare, which says a lot for WayForwards dedication to Nintendo with only the most recent game being available multi-plat. So, in theory, I think Shantae deserves it; I think she's more likely; and I would prefer her even though I have yet to play a Shantae game.

Shovel Knight I adore. I think he's one of the coolest characters to come out of the Indy scene in a long time. He doesn't deserve it though. He's a one game character that has been released on every console currently active. Sure he has an Amiibo. The thing is it isn't being made by Nintendo, in fact, it's being made in the same factories as Disney Infinity toys. It's not a stretch of the imagination to think that Nintendo has also licensed out Amiibo functionality to other companies as well, not including Activision and Yacht Club.

Then why haven't they done it?
Of all the characters they could have had licensed amiibos for...why is Shovel Knight the first, and for the time being, the only?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Here's an idea for Shovel Knight, what if he had moves based on many other indie games?
Perhaps giving Shovel Knight the Polar Star from Cave Story for a U-Air or giving Shovel Knight a few of the dances from Shantae as taunts, or giving him Max's gun from Mutant Mudds. I think that's the only way I could accept Shovel Knight as a character more TBH, a little bit of everything we like about indie games.

 

[smashkirby]

Your forgetting the part where Robin had been chosen by the time the game was pitched to Nintendo. Gematsu only had the info on Nintendo's E3 event, and then made another leak afterwards.

But whatever. I don't want to say anymore on the matter.


So I'd like to ask the question, if we do get an Indie out of Shantae and Shovel Knight, who would you rather have and who do you find more likely?

I would prefer Shantae, but I REALLY don't know who I would find more likely between the two.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Then why haven't they done it?
Of all the characters they could have had licensed amiibos for...why is Shovel Knight the first, and for the time being, the only?

Well, Activision has. Though, they were still Nintendo characters and were already pre-existing Amiibo chips. Otherwise, there is no telling. Nintendo has stated that others have tried to license the Amiibo functionality to other companies, who those companies are is a mystery.

 

[False Sense]

Here's an idea for Shovel Knight, what if he had moves based on many other indie games?
Perhaps giving Shovel Knight the Polar Star from Cave Story for a U-Air or giving Shovel Knight a few of the dances from Shantae as taunts, or giving him Max's gun from Mutant Mudds. I think that's the only way I could accept Shovel Knight as a character more TBH, a little bit of everything we like about indie games.

That's... A really bad idea.

The idea of Shovel Knight "representing" indies is already an arbitrary concept (on top of the arbitrary concept of "reps" anyway), and that's kind of a massive slap in the face for all the indies that Shovel Knight would be stealing from. I find it hard to believe they'd be that willing to have another character take what their character is best known for doing.

I mean, what's wrong with just going with what Shovel Knight has to offer on his own? Why pull stuff from entirely different characters from entirely different indie games?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Then why haven't they done it?
Of all the characters they could have had licensed amiibos for...why is Shovel Knight the first, and for the time being, the only?

I mean I don't know, maybe Yacht Club is the only company who felt like paying for an Amiibo right now? 3DS just recently got Amiibo support, so it's not a stretch to think Yacht Club was the company that wanted to take the risk and make their own. If it's successful, which it probably will be, I wouldn't be surprised to see more.

Think about it this way, amiibo wise besides Smash and Mario Bros/Yoshi, the only other series to get figures are Chibi Robo and Shovel Knight I believe. Why haven't others gotten them? Is Chibi Robo special compared to any other series from Nintendo? I don't see them making two Shovel Knight amiibo to be honest (one for Smash). I don't get why Shovel Knight is more likely when he gets an amiibo, but no one takes a second look at Chibi Robo.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Then why haven't they done it?
Of all the characters they could have had licensed amiibos for...why is Shovel Knight the first, and for the time being, the only?

Because no one else asked? From my understanding, the Shovel Knight team just walked up with money and said, "Can we have an amiibo?"

Also, like other people have said, Activision has made amiibos as well.