Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[LIQUID12A]

For once I voluntarily post here and not because someone tagged me.

Here's an idea for Shovel Knight, what if he had moves based on many other indie games?
Perhaps giving Shovel Knight the Polar Star from Cave Story for a U-Air or giving Shovel Knight a few of the dances from Shantae as taunts, or giving him Max's gun from Mutant Mudds. I think that's the only way I could accept Shovel Knight as a character more TBH, a little bit of everything we like about indie games.

This is ridiculous. Let's not make a moveset based around Shovel Knight's own abilities and thus make Shovel Knight not his own unique character, but an amalgamation of several other characters for the sake of representing all indies!

What's wrong with Shovel Knight using, you know, his own moves?

 

[Kenith]

Here's an idea for Shovel Knight, what if he had moves based on many other indie games?
Perhaps giving Shovel Knight the Polar Star from Cave Story for a U-Air or giving Shovel Knight a few of the dances from Shantae as taunts, or giving him Max's gun from Mutant Mudds. I think that's the only way I could accept Shovel Knight as a character more TBH, a little bit of everything we like about indie games.

That would be like Ryu borrowing the Soul Edge and Soul Calibur or using moves from Tekken and Virtua Fighter in his moveset just because he's a "fighting game rep".

 

[The Light Music Club]

Megaman should point his finger and yell an OBJECTION as well.

To be real though, characters should only represent others from their series, examples being Ness and Lucas.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm against Shovel Knight at the moment under the basis of what's already been established for 3rd-parties, but I'll definitely change my mind and welcome him with open arms if Shovel Knight gets in. Being exempt from the salt without having been a SK supporter from the start, I'll have a lot of fun watching that riot it as a neutral party, ehue!

To be fair, "what has been established" has mainly just been based on more fan-based patterns.
Literally the only* requirement for a guest is that they have had to have been on a Nintendo system (so no Master Chief, Kratos, etc.).
It just so happens that the 5 guests we have had in the history of Smash so far are all from big name franchises.
So people naturally assume that a guest has to be from a big name franchise to be in Smash. Sakurai's statement on Mega Man being a "special case" only fueled that assumption, despite the statement being used in context of there not being large quantity of guest additions (i.e. "There aren't going to be a bunch of guests added, so Mega Man is a special case in that he's one of the few that are.") as opposed to worth of inclusion.


*Before someone tries to bring up the misquoted "must have originated from video game" statement, there isn't any specific requirement about the character being from a video game franchise and not from other forms of media. However, it has been stated throughout Smash's history by Sakurai that such characters are near impossible to include (most likely due to having more legal parties involved than even the Pokémon franchise).

 

[RosaPeach]

My Top 10 DLC

King K Rool
Dixie Kong
Daisy
Inkling
Chibi Robo
Lana
Wolf
Shantae
Sora
Rayman

 

[SonicMario]

Regarding the Shovel Knight Amiibo discussion from last page, you have to remember that during the annoucement they said they pitched the Shovel Knight Amiibo a year ago. Back when Amiibo's weren't even released yet (Neither version of Smash were released yet either, and Shovel Knight had been released only a few months ago at the time) and they just now got to doing it. Meaning it took a full year for Nintendo to finally give the ok for the Shovel Knight Amiibo and then start manufacturing them.

So it's likely Yacht Club Games were the only ones to jump on the idea to get their character an Amiibo (Back before Amiibo's were released most weren't sure if Amiibos were a good idea, but then once they came out they became the sought-after collectibles that they are today). And they took a risk making that happen because they didn't know Amiibos would be as successful as they would turn out to be. I don't think other companies went for that kind of risk for that reason. But now that they are, we may see Nintendo getting requests for permission to have Amiibos for other companies characters. Since they saw Yacht Club got Shovel Knight one.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

To be fair, "what has been established" has mainly just been based on more fan-based patterns.
Literally the only* requirement for a guest is that they have had to have been on a Nintendo system (so no Master Chief, Kratos, etc.).
It just so happens that the 5 guests we have had in the history of Smash so far are all from big name franchises.
So people naturally assume that a guest has to be from a big name franchise to be in Smash.

There are those 5 characters, but we also know that Heihachi was considered, so that's another character Sakurai deems worthy, and he is from another big name franchise.

Sakurai'sstatement on Mega Man being a "special case" only fueled that assumption, despite the statement being used in context of there not being large quantity ofguest additions (i.e. "There aren't going to be a bunch of guests added, so Mega Man is a special case in that he's one of the few that are.") as opposed to worth of inclusion.

He also said "I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies".

 

[Deleted member]

There are those 5 characters, but we also know that Heihachi was considered, so that's another character Sakurai deems worthy, and he is from another big name franchise. He also said "I'm not going to have just any character participate from other companies".

No.
The translator said that.

What Sakurai said is:
他社さんのキャラを闇雲に参戦させるつもりはありませんが、これはやはり別格ですね
Which translates to (by my understanding) something more along the lines of:
"I have no intention in haphazardly making other companies' characters participate, but [Mega Man] is exceptional."
Which goes along with every other instance Sakurai talks about Mega Man being a "special case".

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

No.
The translator said that.

What Sakurai said is:
他社さんのキャラを闇雲に参戦させるつもりはありませんが、これはやはり別格ですね
Which translates to (by my understanding) something more along the lines of:
"I have no intention in haphazardly making other companies' characters participate, but [Mega Man] is exceptional."
Which goes along with every other instance Sakurai talks about Mega Man being a "special case".

So they could still have to be special? I don't see why it can't be interpreted as such. Sure, it could just mean the roster wasn't going to be filled with 3rd parties, but I can also see it meaning what the translator said.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

No.
The translator said that.

What Sakurai said is:
他社さんのキャラを闇雲に参戦させるつもりはありませんが、これはやはり別格ですね
Which translates to (by my understanding) something more along the lines of:
"I have no intention in haphazardly making other companies' characters participate, but [Mega Man] is exceptional."
Which goes along with every other instance Sakurai talks about Mega Man being a "special case".

Something tells me he got a change of heart again.

How did get in?

 

[JaidynReiman]

No.
The translator said that.

What Sakurai said is:
他社さんのキャラを闇雲に参戦させるつもりはありませんが、これはやはり別格ですね
Which translates to (by my understanding) something more along the lines of:
"I have no intention in haphazardly making other companies' characters participate, but [Mega Man] is exceptional."
Which goes along with every other instance Sakurai talks about Mega Man being a "special case".

Its basically the same thing. The line the translator made and the direct translation are basically the same thing, I don't get what you're trying to argue here. He's saying he won't just add any character from other companies, but Mega Man is an exception. That's exactly what he's saying, and the translator's phrasing does not change the meaning at all.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm too sick to argue semantics.

 

[Talpr1]

Something tells me he got a change of heart again.

How did get in?

Because he's also a legend of videogames. Shovel Knight or any other indies aren't.

 

[Tailisu10]

Something tells me he got a change of heart again.

How did get in?

He's Mr. Fighting Games himself, and a veteran to fighting crossovers as well.

 

[Curious Villager]

To be fair, "what has been established" has mainly just been based on more fan-based patterns.
Literally the only* requirement for a guest is that they have had to have been on a Nintendo system (so no Master Chief, Kratos, etc.).
It just so happens that the 5 guests we have had in the history of Smash so far are all from big name franchises.
So people naturally assume that a guest has to be from a big name franchise to be in Smash. Sakurai's statement on Mega Man being a "special case" only fueled that assumption, despite the statement being used in context of there not being large quantity of guest additions (i.e. "There aren't going to be a bunch of guests added, so Mega Man is a special case in that he's one of the few that are.") as opposed to worth of inclusion.


*Before someone tries to bring up the misquoted "must have originated from video game" statement, there isn't any specific requirement about the character being from a video game franchise and not from other forms of media. However, it has been stated throughout Smash's history by Sakurai that such characters are near impossible to include (most likely due to having more legal parties involved than even the Pokémon franchise).

So is this another "No fighting game characters allowed" type of case? As in, a misunderstanding of one of Sakurai's quotes which kinda plagued the likes of Little Mac and Ryu in turn?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No.
The translator said that.

What Sakurai said is:
他社さんのキャラを闇雲に参戦させるつもりはありませんが、これはやはり別格ですね
Which translates to (by my understanding) something more along the lines of:
"I have no intention in haphazardly making other companies' characters participate, but [Mega Man] is exceptional."
Which goes along with every other instance Sakurai talks about Mega Man being a "special case".

But haphazardly is used to refer to random, disorganized, slipshod, or hit-or-miss things.

Consideirng Shovel Knight isn't even the most requested character in the west and he and his franchise lacks iconicness and importance to video gaming in general, what reason would he have as a third-party choice to be included in comparison to tons of far bigger video game characters with much more history and recognizability/ popularity when not talking in the context of Smash Bros?

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Call me petty but i want shovel knight to be added just to see your guys reaction like that's 50% of my reasoning its gonna be a fun ride

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Call me petty but i want shovel knight to be added just to see your guys reaction like that's 50% of my reasoning its gonna be a fun ride

So, basically, for the wrong reasons?

 

[Talpr1]

Call me petty but i want shovel knight to be added just to see your guys reaction like that's 50% of my reasoning its gonna be a fun ride

So, other people's salt is the main reason you want a character? Wow, congratulations, pretty mature, so what're you going to do after the salt wears off?

 

[IceBreakerXY]

So, basically, for the wrong reasons?

A little i still think that indies deserve / earned a spot in smash but one of my favorite things about speculation in watching the reactions salty or not

 

[Kenith]

My Top 10 DLC
King K Rool
Dixie Kong
Daisy
Inkling
Chibi Robo
Lana
Wolf
Shantae
Sora
Rayman

Lana

YESS.
Moooore power to Lana.
The world will be hers!!

 

[NintenZ]

I can see Shovel Knight being added as a way of fanservice, which is why if the predictions are correct, he was decided early on.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I can see Shovel Knight being added as a way of fanservice, which is why if the predictions are correct, he was decided early on.

Most people here(read: 95% of users) don't see characters like Shovel Knight as fanservice but widely popular characters such as King K. Rool as fanservice.

Sakurai twists his words all the time but a good chunk of people would think his idea of fanservice is warped to believe SK fits fanservice criteria.

 

[NintenZ]

Most people here(read: 95% of users) don't see characters like Shovel Knight as fanservice but widely popular characters such as King K. Rool as fanservice.

Sakurai twists his words all the time but a good chunk of people would think his idea of fanservice is warped to believe SK fits fanservice criteria.

Well he was heavily requested early on in the West. Which may be why he was included, because of his early overwhelming support. Also he has made a ton of guest appearances before.

 

[Troykv]

Most people here(read: 95% of users) don't see characters like Shovel Knight as fanservice but widely popular characters such as King K. Rool as fanservice.

Sakurai twists his words all the time but a good chunk of people would think his idea of fanservice is warped to believe SK fits fanservice criteria.

King K. Rool (and Wolf, but this one is absurdy likeable) is the only character that Sakurai needs put to avode the Fanbase's Backslash. Anything else could perfectly be a most personal preference.

 

[LIQUID12A]

King K. Rool (and Wolf, but this one is absurdy likeable) is the only character that Sakurai needs put to avode the Fanbase's Backslash. Anything else could perfectly be a most personal preference.

Son, that's disregarding dozens of other fanbases that would backlash at the exclusion of their popular character. Isaac, Bandana Dee, Paper Mario, Daisy, Dixie Kong, the list goes on. Minor fanbases seen as niche wouldn't be as affected because they know their character doesn't have much chance regardless.

 

[NintenZ]

Still, with all that said, I think that he was most likely decided very early on in the ballot's lifespan, which would explain his "unjustified" inclusion.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Still, with all that said, I think that he was most likely decided very early on in the ballot's lifespan, which would explain his "unjustified" inclusion.

Then why have the ballot go on for several months and in different regions if he is just going to pick a character who is only particularly heavily requested in the west and at the beginning whilst not even being the most heavily requested character in the west at any point outside of Reddit? It doesn't make sense.

 

[NintenZ]

Then why have the ballot go on for several months and in different regions if he is just going to pick a character who is only particularly heavily requested in the west and at the beginning whilst not even being the most heavily requested character in the west at any point outside of Reddit? It doesn't make sense.

I think that you're forgetting something, there will be more than one character from the ballot, don't let Etika confuse you.

 

[Zerp]

I really can't understand why this fanbase is so obsessed with making fun of and watching other people's salt. Like seriously, it was that way all the way back when Chrom got deconfirmed and even up to now we still have this strange obsession. I honestly think it's become a problem and that there's no way it doesn't turn people off from joining us.

And while we're still speaking of salt, if we were to assume the Shovel Knight leak was real (I doubt it), wouldn't there still be the possibility Sakurai/Nintendo saw the backlash/salt to the leak and called the character off in (rightful) fear of disappointing people? For some reason, I could legitimately see that happening, but perhaps I'm just crazy.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That is a silly notion. Maybe if the character in question toed some kinda line (morally, ethically, and overtly), sure, but its mere existence? Absolutely not.

Smooth Criminal

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think that you're forgetting something, there will be more than one character from the ballot, don't let Etika confuse you.

Doesn't change the fact that he isn't a fanservice character to the primary audience of Smash- the Japanese fanbase due to the fact that they have little idea who Shovel Knight is.

 

[NintenZ]

I really can't understand why this fanbase is so obsessed with making fun of and watching other people's salt. Like seriously, it was that way all the way back when Chrom got deconfirmed and even up to now we still have this strange obsession. I honestly think it's become a problem and that there's no way it doesn't turn people off from joining us.

And while we're still speaking of salt, if we were to assume the Shovel Knight leak was real (I doubt it), wouldn't there still be the possibility Sakurai/Nintendo saw the backlash/salt to the leak and called the character off in (rightful) fear of disappointing people? For some reason, I could legitimately see that happening, but perhaps I'm just crazy.

Sakurai would never call off a character he's worked hard on. Especially if it's DLC.

 

[Talpr1]

Honestly though, in my eyes what really kills Shovel Knight's chances isn't just not being a legend, it's being western esclusive. Making a region exclusive character DLC is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot since you're basically guaranteeing a whole nation won't buy it(outside of completionist and competitive players obviously). Before you try to mention , they were in the base game, you weren't purchasing them separately; it's a completely different thing.

If you were a buisnessman, why would you give resources for a character that will only sell well in the US when you could choose a character that will sell well in the whole world(and probably better than the region exclusive character even in the US alone)?

 

[NintenZ]

Honestly though, in my eyes what really kills Shovel Knight's chances isn't just not being a legend, it's being western esclusive. Making a region exclusive character DLC is pretty much shooting yourself in the foot since you're basically guaranteeing a whole nation won't buy it(outside of completionist and competitive players obviously). Before you try to mention , they were in the base game, you weren't purchasing them separately; it's a completely different thing.

If you were a buisnessman, why would you give resources for a character that will only sell well in the US when you could choose a character that will sell well in the whole world(and probably better than the region exclusive character even in the US alone)?

Also, I forgot one more thing about why I didn't include Cloud, because of the fact that his character has heavy legal issues.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I cannot see Butt-Butt winning the Ballot at all, especially not with such typhoons of support for characters like K.Rool, Issac, Wolf and company. Shovel Knight is EXTREMELY niche in market compared to them, and besides that he has no impact on Japanese gamers; at least Little Mac is so extremely popular in the West that him being less known in Japan is excusable. But Shovel Knight is nowhere near Little Mac's western popularity, so he doesn't even have huge Western support going for him. And he's never seen a Japanese release, and presumably won't untill well after the Ballot is over with, so it'd be an inverse Roy and Marth situation.

Besides, Ridley also has a big Western following, and you've seen how that worked out for us.
If I had to hazard some of the characters that Sakurai could look at and try to make work, they'd be;

• King K.Rool (has enormous popularity on both sides of the world, so it's not like it'd be unprofitable for him to be DLC)
• Ridley (same situation as K.Rool, though slightly more hampered by a pre-existing role in the game; though that doesn't make it impossible for it to happen, just unlikely)
• Dixie Kong (also highly popular, but is not as overwhelmingly popular as King K.Rool, and suffers from that immensely)
• Issac (honestly, the most unlikely of this group, since he seems to have been deemed irrelevant enough for his AT to be cut, which was the only representation Golden Sun had in Brawl...aside from a track in Norfair, of all places)
• Wolf (do I really need to explain why he's on this list? )
• Inkling (Splatoon is a huge hit and is already topping the charts, so I could see maybe having Inkling being a newcomer, either for DLC in Smash 4 or as a newcomer in the next game)

 

[NintenZ]

I cannot see Butt-Butt winning the Ballot at all, especially not with such typhoons of support for characters like K.Rool, Issac, Wolf and company. Shovel Knight is EXTREMELY niche in market compared to them, and besides that he has no impact on Japanese gamers; at least Little Mac is so extremely popular in the West that him being less known in Japan is excusable. But Shovel Knight is nowhere near Little Mac's western popularity, so he doesn't even have huge Western support going for him. And he's never seen a Japanese release, and presumably won't untill well after the Ballot is over with, so it'd be an inverse Roy and Marth situation.

Besides, Ridley also has a big Western following, and you've seen how that worked out for us.
If I had to hazard some of the characters that Sakurai could look at and try to make work, they'd be;

• King K.Rool (has enormous popularity on both sides of the world, so it's not like it'd be unprofitable for him to be DLC)
• Ridley (same situation as K.Rool, though slightly more hampered by a pre-existing role in the game; though that doesn't make it impossible for it to happen, just unlikely)
• Dixie Kong (also highly popular, but is not as overwhelmingly popular as King K.Rool, and suffers from that immensely)
• Issac (honestly, the most unlikely of this group, since he seems to have been deemed irrelevant enough for his AT to be cut, which was the only representation Golden Sun had in Brawl...aside from a track in Norfair, of all places)
• Wolf (do I really need to explain why he's on this list? )
• Inkling (Splatoon is a huge hit and is already topping the charts, so I could see maybe having Inkling being a newcomer, either for DLC in Smash 4 or as a newcomer in the next game)

Uh, you're forgetting someone. *Hint: He's my profile pic and sig.*

 

[Putuk]

I just want to see results so we can stop all this speculating.

 

[Burruni]

I have two significant arguments why high-popularity third parties are by no means guarantees.

Spoiler

I just feel like Butt Butt is the third major one on this line. An unknown future for any sequels (being stuck in Quote-tier limbo of re-releases), lack of eastern market, his amiibo JUST coming out, and the fact that we have a number of more significant first party candidate just... seems stacked against him.

 

[NintenZ]

I have two significant arguments why high-popularity third parties are by no means guarantees.

Spoiler

I just feel like Butt Butt is the third major one on this line. An unknown future for any sequels (being stuck in Quote-tier limbo of re-releases), lack of eastern market, his amiibo JUST coming out, and the fact that we have a number of more significant first party candidate just... seems stacked against him.

Yeah, it seems pretty unbelievable, it took me a lot to convince me that the rumors may have some sort of credibility.