DK vs DDD?

[roces9]

I've heard some people refer to DDD as DK's unwinable matchup, but I'm not entirely sure why. What about this MU makes it so rough for DK

As a side note, I just found this vid where DK comes from behind to beat a DDD. If it's so unwinable, then what's happening in this match?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mnzu5-tRBI

 

[Zeallyx]

DDD can 0-Death/whatever percentage-death DK when getting one grab in.

 

[A17]

yup, if dk was small that may not be the case, i dont use ddd, but i can cg big characters with him so easily.

 

[CRASHiC]

Even without the infinite, DDD is almost a hard counter to DK, considered 65-35.
DDD has an option for nearly everything he can do.

 

[blakinola]

Without the CG the matchup becomes easier but it's still a huge uphill battle. I would stay DK or even CP using flaco.

 

[ook]

Without the infinite (or smallstep chaingrab), IMO, DK vs DDD isn't THAT bad. Maybe 60-40 at the worst.
DDD does not have "an option for nearly everything he can do." DDD gets edgeguarded hard, Down-b outranges everything he has on the ground, DK's uptilt or bair can hit DDD out of the air, Grounded up-b is still nice, and waddle dees are a joke.


With the infinite... it's still not IMPOSSIBLE with some hardcore camping. Boring, and like 10-90 or 5-95, but not impossible.

 

[Luigi player]

I agree with ook.

And the Dedede in the posted vid sucks at infiniting. He messed up every time and didn't even infinite every time he grabbed the DK.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Without the infinite (or smallstep chaingrab), IMO, DK vs DDD isn't THAT bad. Maybe 60-40 at the worst.
DDD does not have "an option for nearly everything he can do." DDD gets edgeguarded hard, Down-b outranges everything he has on the ground, DK's uptilt or bair can hit DDD out of the air, Grounded up-b is still nice, and waddle dees are a joke.


With the infinite... it's still not IMPOSSIBLE with some hardcore camping. Boring, and like 10-90 or 5-95, but not impossible.

TBP, it's 65:35 nothing worse. The best you guys have on us is bair and down-b, and even that isn't that much of a problem. If you guys have options for a grounded D3, we can play a good air game and still get around.

But overall, what ook said is good. Listen to him.

 

[Luigi player]

If the D3 is grab happy he gets ***** by DKs side B.

 

[Ripple]

If the D3 is grab happy he gets ***** by DKs side B.

if DK is side b happy.........we lose a stock

 

[daisho]

if DK is side b happy.........we lose a stock

If the infinite is allowed...

If it's allowed then at the highest levels of play it's around 90-10

If it's not allowed the matchup is pretty even. He has a projectile, chaingrab, uptilt and bair. We have down B, Up B, Side B, gimping, Bair and the punch.

The only thing he can do to us is camp and grab... which are both viable and good tactics but imo don't make the matchup 60-40.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Daisho, you underrate all of our other moves. You guys can get Dair ***** if not careful. You also forget about dtilt, ftilt, and Fair.

 

[Ripple]

Daisho, you underrate all of our other moves. You guys can get Dair ***** if not careful. You also forget about dtilt, ftilt, and Fair.

f-tilt gets out-spaced by down b, d-tilt doesn't kill at a reasonable %, and fair is not going to hit often at all.

dair *****? I don't think so

 

[CARNiVOOR]

Being a DK AND DDD main...

With the infinite, it's DDD's match, easily. And because the infinite is allowed in most tournies, this MU will USUALLY be in DDD's favor.

Of course, if it isn't allowed, I'd say 60-40 DDD.

As DDD:
FTilt/DTilt stops all of DK's ground approaching. Even if DK can shield properly they aren't very punishable by DK.

Bair stops DK's air game, but it can be countered with UTilt, although any good DDD would punish THAT with a DAir. And if the DDD really wants to be an ***, he'd just UTilt.

As DK:
It's all about smarts. I wouldn't use spinning kong on the ground at all, and make sure it cancels if in the air or you WILL get grabbed. Abuse FTilt and UTilt in this matchup is all I can say. Get him off the stage and punish his recovery.

But I'm probably stating **** you guys already know so...yeah.

 

[Luigi player]

if DK is side b happy.........we lose a stock

Yeah of course only if the infinite isn't allowed. You probably risk a stock by using it (depends on where you do it), it's not really a viable option unless you feel really lucky...

D3s grab is still really good against DK even if it's one grab is only 25-40 % or so. And since D3s grab is so good most will probably use it. So if the infinite is banned you can risk a side B every now and then.

D3s dair is really nice, and his fair too, don't underestimate them. But they don't **** DK. >_>

Dtilt and ftilt shouldn't be a problem for DK...

 

[Donkey Bong]

DDD has an option for nearly everything he can do.

i wouldnt say that, but i would say that D3 has everything DK has, but better, and then some. He's got the weight, he's got the kill power (utilt, when fresh, kills pretty stupid early), he's got the range (save for DK's downb), his grab game rivals DK's because its not as versatile as ours, but it doesnt need to be. dthrow techasing/chaingrabbing is too good.

i think the only thing DK has better than D3 are air movement, and a little better kill power. DK can kill earlier than D3. His smashes are waaaay too slow, and they're problematic. fsmash is slow and needs a sweet spot for max power, usmash sucks because utilt is stronger than it, dsmash just plain sucks lol.

 

[Tujex]

I'd agree with saying that the match is nearly unwinnable with the infinite. But a few ladders I'm on have banned the infinite, making the matches a lot more playable. They're still touch since he can chaingrab you to hell, but its a lot more balanced without the infinite.

 

[manofgames4555]

Without the infinite (or smallstep chaingrab), IMO, DK vs DDD isn't THAT bad. Maybe 60-40 at the worst.
DDD does not have "an option for nearly everything he can do." DDD gets edgeguarded hard, Down-b outranges everything he has on the ground, DK's uptilt or bair can hit DDD out of the air, Grounded up-b is still nice, and waddle dees are a joke.


With the infinite... it's still not IMPOSSIBLE with some hardcore camping. Boring, and like 10-90 or 5-95, but not impossible.

Pretty accurate I play DK as a secondary. It is very possible as I live in the state with the some of the best DDD's. Florida

 

[Kitamerby]

Daisho, you underrate all of our other moves. You guys can get Dair ***** if not careful. You also forget about dtilt, ftilt, and Fair.

You're a filthy, horrible liar.

Everyone knows D3 doesn't have an A button.

All he has is Grab, Analog Down(crouch and dthrow), Bair, Utilt, and taunt buttons.

 

[roces9]

Daisho, you underrate all of our other moves. You guys can get Dair ***** if not careful. You also forget about dtilt, ftilt, and Fair.

Pardon my noob, but what's so bad about the dtilt? I play DDD a little, but I didn't think it was a great move or anything

And assuming that you don't get Infinited, or that its banned, any pointers? Get him off stage, keep him onstage, approach from the ground, approach from the air? What is the viable strat for this one?

 

[CARNiVOOR]

Pardon my noob, but what's so bad about the dtilt? I play DDD a little, but I didn't think it was a great move or anything

And assuming that you don't get Infinited, or that its banned, any pointers? Get him off stage, keep him onstage, approach from the ground, approach from the air? What is the viable strat for this one?

Get him off stage. After he's offstage, it's your game. Read his recovery and it's over. To get him offstage, play smart, get a grab in, Cargo mode, walk off stage, go forward and fall a bit, down cargo throw. After that, it's all about how well you can read him. Assault him with some Bairs to waste his jumps.

And for DDD's Dtilt? It can be a kill move, and works on most heavy characters after they've been chaingrabbed.

 

[daisho]

It'll kill DK... at about 180+ (being generous).

 

[Ripple]

l2DI

you can survive it at 210+

 

[Zip.]

Without the infinite (or smallstep chaingrab), IMO, DK vs DDD isn't THAT bad. Maybe 60-40 at the worst.
DDD does not have "an option for nearly everything he can do." DDD gets edgeguarded hard, Down-b outranges everything he has on the ground, DK's uptilt or bair can hit DDD out of the air, Grounded up-b is still nice, and waddle dees are a joke.


With the infinite... it's still not IMPOSSIBLE with some hardcore camping. Boring, and like 10-90 or 5-95, but not impossible.

this ^

You're a filthy, horrible liar.

Everyone knows D3 doesn't have an A button.

All he has is Grab, Analog Down(crouch and dthrow), Bair, Utilt, and taunt buttons.

.............

 

[roces9]

Thanks Carnivoor, that was exactly what I was looking for

 

[fullynick]

I also think you'll find, that videos from june 08 show the metagame at a completely underdeveloped stage relative to what we see today