DK is a garbage low-mid/low tier

[Deleted member]

His neutral game is god awful due to how incredibly risky and easily avoidable his neutral options are (Hand Slap gets a pass, fortunately). He can't fight zoners, characters with good spacing/disjoints, or literally any character that isn't also a superheavy. He can't even touch Jigglypuff because of how she functions. His recovery is weak and also counterable if he aims wrong.

His advantage state is overrated. Because of how risky his neutral options are, getting there is a suicide mission compared to characters with good neutrals. It's just embarrassing to lose to this character even if your main is higher tiered.

Now if he was buffed to be given Bowser's attributes (which needs to happen), then it'd be a different story...

 

[Leoinu]

Just flat out say it. You want DK to be busted good. idk why people have to tell you so much but his disadvantage SHOULD be a weakness with how rewarding his advantage can be.

You're just trash with his advantage

 

[Deleted member]

Just flat out say it. You want DK to be busted good. idk why people have to tell you so much but his disadvantage SHOULD be a weakness with how rewarding his advantage can be.

You're just trash with his advantage

Fine, I'm trash with the character. Heck, I suck at the game in general. I'm rushing improvement because I'm so mentally and psychologically weak in regards to losing. But playing as better characters despite their bland toolkits won't satisfy me.

 

[Big O]

His neutral game is god awful due to how incredibly risky and easily avoidable his neutral options are (Hand Slap gets a pass, fortunately). He can't fight zoners, characters with good spacing/disjoints, or literally any character that isn't also a superheavy. He can't even touch Jigglypuff because of how she functions. His recovery is weak and also counterable if he aims wrong.

His advantage state is overrated. Because of how risky his neutral options are, getting there is a suicide mission compared to characters with good neutrals. It's just embarrassing to lose to this character even if your main is higher tiered.

Now if he was buffed to be given Bowser's attributes (which needs to happen), then it'd be a different story...

His neutral isn't great. You need to play carefully compared to other characters, but if you have the patience to make it work it is actually decent. He has a lot of good things going for him like his reach, mobility, and devastating grab game.

I'm not sure why you mention Jigglypuff as an example of someone he struggles with, but DK's had a positive MU against her since Brawl and still beats her in this game. DK can wall her out with his tilts/Bair and she can't contest his Uair either. She also dies extremely early to DK's KO confirms and charged Punch.

DK is low tier, but tiers aren't everything. In fact, until you get to a certain level they don't actually matter. At the end of the day it boils down to MU's and he has a lot of decent MU's. He only loses badly to a few characters. Being low tier in this game doesn't mean the character is trash, just weak.

DK is fun, and while he could definitely use some buffs, being fun is good enough for me. If DK is too weak for your liking, your two best options are to get better or move on. Complaining is fine every now and then, but don't waste too much energy doing so. It's not worth it.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

His neutral game is god awful due to how incredibly risky and easily avoidable his neutral options are (Hand Slap gets a pass, fortunately). He can't fight zoners, characters with good spacing/disjoints, or literally any character that isn't also a superheavy. He can't even touch Jigglypuff because of how she functions. His recovery is weak and also counterable if he aims wrong.

His advantage state is overrated. Because of how risky his neutral options are, getting there is a suicide mission compared to characters with good neutrals. It's just embarrassing to lose to this character even if your main is higher tiered.

Now if he was buffed to be given Bowser's attributes (which needs to happen), then it'd be a different story...

I think what really gets me is he feels like he lost alot of his grappling archetype, and grab combos dont feel as fun as before, or anywhere near melee/64 it isnt even tier placement I care about...

 

[meleebrawler]

I think what really gets me is he feels like he lost alot of his grappling archetype, and grab combos dont feel as fun as before, or anywhere near melee/64 it isnt even tier placement I care about...

Almost everybody's grab combos are worse compared to 4. That DK actually still has his ding-dong to some extent is nothing short of a miracle.

Ultimate is the only Smash game that has elevated his cargo throws from a mere gimmick to a tool that lets him reposition his opponent wherever he wants them, especially offstage. No other character can do this with normal grabs, and depending on who you're fighting it can result in death from grab at percents characters like Ness and Incineroar (without Revenge) can only dream of.

 

[Flowen231]

DK is low tier, but tiers aren't everything. In fact, until you get to a certain level they don't actually matter. At the end of the day it boils down to MU's and he has a lot of decent MU's. He only loses badly to a few characters. Being low tier in this game doesn't mean the character is trash, just weak.

Weaker than you may think actually. With few exceptions match ups really don't matter too much unless you're playing high level/top level smash. At the level where OP suggests he's playing at, he's likely just losing because he either lacks fundamentals or is just not as good as whoever he's playing against.

And for OP; DK is one of the few characters that can get his weaknesses super exploited at almost any level, but it's your job as a DK player to avoid disadvantage at all cost. You have to think ahead, play smart, read your opponent's habits. Quick edit: DK is really good at cracking low level players if you play safely though, play a bit safe, make use of your range and you should be golden.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

Almost everybody's grab combos are worse compared to 4. That DK actually still has his ding-dong to some extent is nothing short of a miracle.

Ultimate is the only Smash game that has elevated his cargo throws from a mere gimmick to a tool that lets him reposition his opponent wherever he wants them, especially offstage. No other character can do this with normal grabs, and depending on who you're fighting it can result in death from grab at percents characters like Ness and Incineroar (without Revenge) can only dream of.

you realize that the difference between a normal forward throw and dk's "Positional advantage" is often miniscule because you yourself have to move + when you perform the cargo throw the mash timer doesn't reset, and ness often times kills earlier not to mention incineroars command grab.

 

[Deleted member]

His neutral game is god awful due to how incredibly risky and easily avoidable his neutral options are (Hand Slap gets a pass, fortunately). He can't fight zoners, characters with good spacing/disjoints, or literally any character that isn't also a superheavy. He can't even touch Jigglypuff because of how she functions. His recovery is weak and also counterable if he aims wrong.

His advantage state is overrated. Because of how risky his neutral options are, getting there is a suicide mission compared to characters with good neutrals. It's just embarrassing to lose to this character even if your main is higher tiered.

Now if he was buffed to be given Bowser's attributes (which needs to happen), then it'd be a different story...

Just play a better character

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

His neutral game is god awful due to how incredibly risky and easily avoidable his neutral options are (Hand Slap gets a pass, fortunately). He can't fight zoners, characters with good spacing/disjoints, or literally any character that isn't also a superheavy. He can't even touch Jigglypuff because of how she functions. His recovery is weak and also counterable if he aims wrong.

His advantage state is overrated. Because of how risky his neutral options are, getting there is a suicide mission compared to characters with good neutrals. It's just embarrassing to lose to this character even if your main is higher tiered.

Now if he was buffed to be given Bowser's attributes (which needs to happen), then it'd be a different story...

I would like to introduce you to King of Skill.

 

[Deleted member]

Just play a better character

Better characters are either too hard or not fun enough. No better character has more than one reliable spike, a bury move, lives long, and a crazy advantage state.

 

[Deleted member]

Better characters are either too hard or not fun enough. No better character has more than one reliable spike, a bury move, lives long, and a crazy advantage state.

Then shut up lol

 

[Leoinu]

Better characters are either too hard or not fun enough. No better character has more than one reliable spike, a bury move, lives long, and a crazy advantage state.

Have you tried gitting gud?

 

[Deleted member]

you've said this a ton of times already, but for other characters. Every time you refuse to listen to what other people have to say, and continue to complain about how "x character is bad because their not stupid levels of broken and I'm losing in matches". I'm honestly surprised there are people who still take you seriously.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Have you tried gitting gud?

Have you tried not being mean?

 

[Deleted member]

Have you tried not being mean?

Please dont try to defend him, he really won't learn.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Please dont try to defend him, he really won't learn.

I was talking to Leoinu when I said that.

 

[Oz o:]

Just flat out say it. You want DK to be busted good. idk why people have to tell you so much but his disadvantage SHOULD be a weakness with how rewarding his advantage can be.

You're just trash with his advantage

#OH****

 

[Deleted member]

Please dont try to defend him, he really won't learn.

Bold of you to assume I'm some braindead caveman. I think you need to look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woMa77mLqUs

It's by far the best I've done with this MU.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Bold of you to assume I'm some braindead caveman. I think you need to look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woMa77mLqUs

It's by far the best I've done with this MU.

I've seen part of the video, but great job on it!

Also, practice makes perfect. If you're having trouble with a fighter (such as Jigglypuff or Ness), it's always nice to try Training Mode or Mob Smash to practice some more. Also, if you have Nintendo Switch online, you can fight with people online to try and practice your DK skills online in either an Arena Battle or on Quickplay. You can also watch Donkey Kong guides on YouTube, such as this one from OBESUS!

 

[Leoinu]

Have you tried not being mean?

That does not answer my question.

 

[Wigglerman]

Bold of you to assume I'm some braindead caveman. I think you need to look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woMa77mLqUs

It's by far the best I've done with this MU.

Personal observations. Saw a lot of odd instances of grounded Dspecial. Not a good move on puff due to her being in the air all the time. A little more uptilt would be good to catch her floating around. More d tilt for the times puff is on ground to poke or even try to catch her trying to snap to ledge to set up. Similar to Incineroar in this match up, use your grounded 'lariate'. The armor will chew up and stuff puff's attempted pressure and punish them for it for 'free'. Don't get too predictable with it but the move is so good and can get a lot of mileage. Especially to catch rolls if you b reverse it out of shield. Also quite a few dash attack into shield which is risky as all Hell for DK. I was expecting bigger punishes than you got, so mix up your options with dash in grabs to snatch up shielding opponents more often than commit to the unsafe attack

 

[Big O]

Despite whatever you may believe and whatever skill level you or anyone else may be at, please try to be civil. This site is supposed to be an open and inviting place for casual fans and competitive players alike.

You can make your point without being rude, and if it goes over their head then just move on. There is also an ignore feature specifically made to help you do just that.

There's no need to flame, insult, or make fun of anyone. If you can't do that, don't post.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

I would like to introduce you to King of Skill.

This is a montage vs trash tier players...

 

[Deleted member]

Bold of you to assume I'm some braindead caveman. I think you need to look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woMa77mLqUs

It's by far the best I've done with this MU.

Oh you're not a caveman, just a whiny loser that complains instead of trying to learn from mistakes and look for advice on how to get better. Yeah DK isnt a good character but instead of wasting time complaining about him how about you...

G i t G u d

 

[Deleted member]

Oh you're not a caveman, just a whiny loser that complains instead of trying to learn from mistakes and look for advice on how to get better. Yeah DK isnt a good character but instead of wasting time complaining about him how about you...

G i t G u d

I'm going to assume like everyone else who says "Git gud", you're speaking in the "This is quick and easy, you shouldn't be struggling" sense. That's why I hate that advice; not only is it a half-insult, it downplays the uphill battle of "gitting gud".

 

[Leoinu]

I'm going to assume like everyone else who says "Git gud", you're speaking in the "This is quick and easy, you shouldn't be struggling" sense. That's why I hate that advice; not only is it a half-insult, it downplays the uphill battle of "gitting gud".

Literally no one has ever said it was quick and easy. Thats on you I guess

 

[Coolboy]

I'm going to assume like everyone else who says "Git gud", you're speaking in the "This is quick and easy, you shouldn't be struggling" sense. That's why I hate that advice; not only is it a half-insult, it downplays the uphill battle of "gitting gud".

it's not bad advice but like always you ignore everything and if someone is harsh with you, you simply call them a bully but the truth here is many of us are done with your whining bull**** here :l
all you do is whine, ignore advice you been given, even though many of us have given you real good advice in the past.

 

[Wigglerman]

I think there's a mindset you have to accept if you wish to play 'bad' characters. In a casual or online environment DK is more than fine as a character. If you're facing higher skill level players either by choice or by fate (Online random match ups) then yeah, DK might struggle more than others. He isn't as good as he was in Smash 4 but he's still solid. He just doesn't have a lot of cheese like some higher 'tier' characters.

The mindset you need to adopt is '**** it, if I lose, I lose'. But don't blame the character for you picking them despite being bad. You know they're not as good and you've no one to blame but yourself for using them. Loyal Zangief players don't whine and pout about Gief (Obviously, some do) but they keep using the character because they love how they play, they like the damage, they like the challenge, they love the blow out victories when the odds are stacked against them and so on.


It'll take time to 'git gud' as some are saying, especially with a character who can't get away with a lot of mistakes. I'd genuinely be interested in running sets with you at some point if you want to run some matches and I can try to help figure out some more of your strengths and weaknesses. I'm not the best player around but I feel I'm competent enough and I'll do my best to help analyze the sets. I'll save our replays and (Finally get an SD card so I can convert/upload them) so we can run through together. DK will be a struggle, you seem to acknowledge that which is the first step. The second step is controlling your emotions while playing. Anger, frustration, salt...these will always make you play worse and further those emotions because you'll make more mistakes and likely pin the blame on the character to devoid your own wrong doing. I do this at times in particularly bad grind sessions. Most people have moments of dire salt. That's fine. But learning to calm down, accept the truth and move forward (Thus learn) will help.

If there are match ups you're wanting to learn, I can do my best to use said characters (My best are Pac and Incineroar but I can play most the cast to some degree but not 'top level' by any stretch. Still, the experience will be good for both of us in general).

 

[Deleted member]

it's not bad advice but like always you ignore everything and if someone is harsh with you, you simply call them a bully but the truth here is many of us are done with your whining bull**** here :l
all you do is whine, ignore advice you been given, even though many of us have given you real good advice in the past.

You all keep telling me I keep disregarding advice when I KNOW I haven't. The only advice I've been "ignoring" is 'go to locals', which is not really necessary for me, and 'watch VODs', since I'm not even looking to climb the ranks. Everything else has been followed.

 

[Deleted member]

You all keep telling me I keep disregarding advice when I KNOW I haven't. The only advice I've been "ignoring" is 'go to locals', which is not really necessary for me, and 'watch VODs', since I'm not even looking to climb the ranks. Everything else has been followed.

So you want to get better but refuse to go locals with probably good players who will help you get better. Bruh

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

@GamerZard I subscribed and left a comment on your discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

So you want to get better but refuse to go locals with probably good players who will help you get better. Bruh

It's just that locals goes against my social anxiety.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The biggest issue isn't DK but rather, you judging by your posts, especially these ones

If you genuinely feel bad because your main wasn't on the winning end of an combo video usually targeting low level players, that's on you

This one however tells me you simply refuse to learn fundamentals and want to mash buttons, only to get outplayed because you kept throwing out unsafe moves and got punished accordingly, caring more about big buttons than making sure you can secure the win.



That being said hope isn't lost, I agree going to locals won't help if you have anxiety or money issues, what I suggest is saving replays and reviewing your footage to try and learn what you did wrong and try to see if your opponent was making obvious mistakes you could have punished. You can also convert the replays to videos to show others to ask for advice to get a second opinion on the matter. It won't change that you lost those matches, but it may show you why you lost, which leads to improvement. You cannot improve without effort, and if you feel the character is what's holding you back, play someone else. There's like 80 other characters, so don't give me "But I only like this one character!", my biggest improvement in Smash was realizing Kirby wasn't working out for me whej playing Brawl so I experimented with other characters, nowadays, I tend to play multiple different characters and have fun as I took the time to learn their strengths while accepting my personal weaknesses as a player


TLDR: You're the problem, but put some effort in and you'll improve

 

[MaddaD]

TLDR: You're the problem, but put some effort in and you'll improve

That's just Zard for ya. We've talked a couple of times and he won't admit that he's the problem.

 

[Deleted member]

That's just Zard for ya. We've talked a couple of times and he won't admit that he's the problem.

I've never denied being at fault. I've been playing the character for about half a year, doing everything I could think of: watching combo vids, checking his frame and hitbox data, making at least three replays and having people analyze them, asking other DK players what his most useful options are at any given moment, etc.

From the fact that I still croak when losing and care too much about styling instead of using boring but practical finishers, I'm definitely at fault for barely improving. If I'm making little to no effort, it's because I never wanted to play Smash, let alone fighting games, with the intention to go through the type of training that competitive players do. I just want to have fun with this game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've never denied being at fault. I've been playing the character for about half a year, doing everything I could think of: watching combo vids, checking his frame and hitbox data, making at least three replays and having people analyze them, asking other DK players what his most useful options are at any given moment, etc.

From the fact that I still croak when losing and care too much about styling instead of using boring but practical finishers, I'm definitely at fault for barely improving. If I'm making little to no effort, it's because I never wanted to play Smash, let alone fighting games, with the intention to go through the type of training that competitive players do. I just want to have fun with this game.

That begs the question, why are you still doing this to yourself if trying to get more into the competitive side frustrates you?

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

That begs the question, why are you still doing this to yourself if trying to get more into the competitive side frustrates you?

It goes against his social anxiety, remember?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It goes against his social anxiety, remember?

No, that was locals, I'm asking why he's still busy doing something he clearly isn't enjoying

 

[Deleted member]

That begs the question, why are you still doing this to yourself if trying to get more into the competitive side frustrates you?

Unlike in Smash 4, Smash Ultimate brings in more competitive players, so it's hard for me to enjoy this game when some tryhard comes by, especially with the lack of a "For Fun" mode. Hence, I feel like I have no choice but to train.