DK Frame Data *Throws Added*

[Big O]

Wow. Lol I always assumed you couldn't get grabbed during the cargo. That's pretty dumb.

Anyways I got some results on the side b. The formula so far looks like its 96+D-5N= frames of pitfall stun for grounded headbutts. For aerial headbutts the formula is 114+D-5N= frames of pitfall stun. D is damage after the headbutt and N is the number of button inputs. Grounded headbutts have 8 frames of hitlag and aerial headbutts have 10 frames of hitlag so overall the aerial headbutt gives 20 more frames of hitstun after factoring in the extra damage and hitlag.

 

[Jmex]

You never seize to amaze me Big O with all your formulas and stuff.

So basically though, go for the air headbutt if you want them to stay stuck longer.

 

[Big O]

Alright I just did some cargo tests and here are the results so far. 100+5D-10N is the formula for cargo holds duration in frames. D is damage % and N is the number of button inputs. The cargo hold gets cargo armor on frame 1 (after pressing forwards so it's nigh instant) and you can start to move/throw on frame 21. Frame 21 is also when the formula starts. The secret method (which shall remain secret at least in here) reads as a constant button press every frame : (

 

[Jmex]

Wait what? A constant button press for each frame for what to happen?

 

[SuSa]

Holding Up or Down counts as you pressing a button EVERY SINGLE FRAME.

So thats taking off 10 frames every input.

So for every 1 frame you take to do something, they take off 10 frames.

So after 10 frames, there went the original 100 frames you had from just having them

Then you get 5xD for the rest of the frames

 

[Jmex]

Ahhhh i see. So thats why holding up works so well.

 

[Big O]

Well it just means the secret automatically presses buttons really fast for you so you break out really fast.

Edit: Lol typing on the Wii ftl. I can see why you were confused since I didn't define the variables.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Big O is the man. About the cargo, I'm pretty sure DK gets grabbed if someone tries from his front, and the character on your back gets grabbed if they try to grab from behind.

 

[Jmex]

^ Someone has got to try this.

If this is true, this is going to amazing to use in teams.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I've never really put it to use in teams but I've noticed it happen a few times.

 

[Luigi player]

Um... maybe it's character specific, but Mario doesn't grab Wario if DK is cargo holding him. (I even tried running through DK and grabbing lol)

 

[Ragnar0k]

It probably depends on the height of a characters grab.

 

[Luigi player]

It probably depends on the height of a characters grab.

Yeah maybe... or maybe you played without team attack? It might be possible there...

 

[Jmex]

I would be down to test this, but i never have anyone to test anything with.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Yeah maybe... or maybe you played without team attack? It might be possible there...

Team attack on is a must around me. I think it happened in a free for all 3 player match. So that's not a possibility.

 

[ook]

I would be down to test this, but i never have anyone to test anything with.

If you have multiple controllers (a wiimote) you can just test stuff by yourself

 

[thrillagorilla]

I just tried everyone out in practice mode using controlled dittos. No character grabs their ditto out of cargo it would seem. Do you remember the circumstances that you saw it happen in, RagnarOk?

 

[Ragnar0k]

Practice mode dittos can't hurt eachother.

 

[thrillagorilla]

AAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNND....

DER!

Give me a few minutes, I'll try again in regular match mode...

Edit: OK, I'm about a third of the way through the cast with the same result. I also tried out Kirby's, DeDeDe's, Yoshi's and Diddy's moves with "grab" properties and DK got grabbed every time. I'm gonna try it in team mode next to see if the result is the same. I might also try things like uneven ground. The thing that gets me, though, is that DeDeDe wasn't getting grabbed when he was clearly in front of DK in the Cargo.

 

[Jmex]

I need to get used to the heavy armor of the cargo. I used to do it all the time.

EDIT: DK's down throw can be used so that your partner can catch them when they bounce. I have tried this and do it sometimes during doubles.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I think you grab from behind. And slanted ground might effect it. I think it might have been on yoshi's or delfino, I play those stages a lot.

 

[thrillagorilla]

OK, I just tried it with team attack off, DK and DeDeDe on a team vs. another DeDeDe. The only way DeDeDe was gatting the grab was from the cargo release. I've tried the b-grab moves, boosted pivots, regular pivots... I even tried having DK jump just below the opponent with the same result.

I'll try the hill slants next. Thanks for the frame of reference, Rag.

Edit: hmm. I just tried it on Yoshi's (melee) to no avail, and I doubt that a smaller incline will make a difference. I'm out of time to test for now, but I'll get back on this later tonight. What characters were involved when it happened? All I can think of is that it's a character/location specific glitch.

 

[Jmex]

^ Maybe it was just one of those random moments in Brawl that will never happen again?

 

[Ragnar0k]

I meant yoshi's brawl, sorry. I can't remember the characters really. If it doesn't work it might of been during the release.

 

[Big O]

I just tried out the cargo stuff and I think it's safe to say you can't grab whoever you're holding. Even aerial flame chokes just go right through whoever you are grabbing. It seems that whoever you are holding can't get knocked out of your grab either unless they hit you out of the grab too. Sadly down b can't hit the person you are carrying (imagines epic double DK combo that could have been).

 

[thrillagorilla]

I thought that might be the case.

Oh well. This does give me an idea though. Has it already been tested whether or not a grab on a cargo released person by a partner is guaranteed if you use the turnaround trick?

 

[Jmex]

^ When you get Down B'd from another DK, wont the character being carried drop down and get hit too?

 

[Big O]

Yeah they would drop and get hit too but my idea was like this. One DK would cargo and another DK on a platform would down b for massive damage and a hilarious beating. Down b hits people like Mario or taller when they are standing. I was hoping that the down b would hit whoever you are holding while not hitting DK since he bends over to carry them on his back.

You don't really need to do any fancy cargo tricks to pull off a double grab release infinite. Both the regular release and cargo release can be done infinitely as long as your partner has a fast enough pummel to force a ground break. Your partner just needs to not be too close to you since your pummel attack has pretty good reach. DK's cargo release just makes it easier to pull off since you can pummel to stall time if needed and then move towards your partner. Cargo releasing does 6 damage and if they are purposely taking forever to be released your partner can smack them a few times.

 

[Big O]

I added a section for throws. It is kind of interesting how throws take longer based on weight.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I like how you designated all the cargo throws as tosses. From now on that's what they should be called I think. Dtoss easier than saying cargo down throw.

 

[Monkley6]

I'm not sure if it effects the frame data but... I do believe it takes longer to dthrow heavier characters? IDK if it's technically hitlag or what, but I went into a game, dthrew G&W and then did it to Dedede, and it was noticeably longer for dedede.

I don't really expect to see frame data for everyone, honestly I don't care about it Just figured I'de make sure everyone else knows? =)

P.S. Big O you're a nut with all this frame data, I love it!

 

[Big O]

Lol I already mentioned that in the small paragraph right before the numbers. I even gave an example of how much of a difference it makes. It definitely isn't due to hitlag but if I didn't know that would be my guess.

I appreciate the good will though. Doing all of this has made me a better player and helps out a lot of fellow DK mains.

 

[Monkley6]

Haha, doh! I didn't read just checked out the data Sorry bout that.

Extra thanks for the info

 

[Commander_Beef]

Do spotdodges have different numbers of frames? It seems that ROB's spotdodge has less frames than DK's but DK's spotdodge seems laggier after you do his. Is there really a difference between different character's spotdodges?

 

[thrillagorilla]

Do spotdodges have different numbers of frames? It seems that ROB's spotdodge has less frames than DK's but DK's spotdodge seems laggier after you do his. Is there really a difference between different character's spotdodges?

Most are the same, but a couple of characters have longer or shorter animations than the others. DK has one of the longer ones.

Edit: There was a thread with all the details, but I don't remember where I saw it.

 

[Jmex]

Yea also air dodges have different durations based on characters as well.

Or at least Metaknight has the shortest in the game.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Everyone from melee has 10 more frames of lag after their air dodges.

 

[Jmex]

Really? Wow thats horrible.

I know for a few characters like Falcon, you cant attack right away when you jump in from the ledge.

For example, with DK if your grabbing the ledge if you jump in as soon as you land you can down smash, although with Falcon, when you jump in and try to do a move, you have about a second or two of lag where you just stand there.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Most are the same, but a couple of characters have longer or shorter animations than the others. DK has one of the longer ones.
[/COLOR]

Oh understood...
It feels like after Donkey Kong's spotdodge, he gets more lag than usual, or other spotdodgers though.

 

[Luigi player]

Really? Wow thats horrible.

I know for a few characters like Falcon, you cant attack right away when you jump in from the ledge.

For example, with DK if your grabbing the ledge if you jump in as soon as you land you can down smash, although with Falcon, when you jump in and try to do a move, you have about a second or two of lag where you just stand there.

Ah, that's the recovery lag thing (don't know the exact name >.<). It happens if you grab the ledge with their upBs.

A few characters have this.

Luigi, Mario, Falcon, Ganondorf, Squirtle, Charizard, Marth, ... (not sure if those are all) there is a list of them in the tactical discussion forum.

Don't know if this is for all of them, but if Mario get's hit out of his upB and lands he will also have those few frames of landing lag... but you can "cancel" this by landing with an aerial (this is what those characters should do because it's safer).