Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

[InASnowBoundLand]

Yeah, cool it with the echo talk people. It's one thing to keep it in mind. It's a real possibility. It's another to make out with it on a constant basis.

People who say Dixie should be an echo in the Dixie thread should be made to play Lightning Lookout with only one Kong.

 

[Jeck]

Oh okay, so now that that's out of system I guess... see any good movies lately?

 

[BirthNote]

I'd rather her not getin than be an echo. Unless she has a bunch of unique moves.


Kiddy can skip on water lol, and in dkc yes he's essentially taking dks place, but he and Dixie worked well as a pair in the story. He's a goofy kid she's babysitting, and he helps he. And he's clumsey and uses her to attack others and hurts her in the process. I think that makes for a fun duo.

Well to be fair, DK can skip water too now when being Kong-rolled, and so can Funky. Kiddy's useful, sure, but he comes across as more of a device or tool since he has no stake in the plot besides "don't get hurt". He's basically a blank slate and substitute DK.

 

[Ultinarok]

Yeah, cool it with the echo talk people. It's one thing to keep it in mind. It's a real possibility. It's another to make out with it on a constant basis.

People who say Dixie should be an echo in the Dixie thread should be made to play Lightning Lookout with only one Kong.

This is the second form of torture you've dreamt up for the naysayers, the first being Beaver Bother.

You really know how to hurt someone huh?

 

[verysleepywolf]

Dixie is necessary for completing the DK roster. Past her, you really don't need anybody else. Cranky could be cool, but certainly isn't a must-have. Since Metroid is finished off with Ridley and Dark Samus, I really want DK to follow suit. We're halfway there with K Rool now. That's why I want Dixie, echo or original doesn't matter to me.

Also, I think it's a little unfair to try silencing the pro-echo people. I would absolutely love to see Dixie either way, but she does make sense as an echo fighter and is a great example of a character that could be just as unique as an echo. She has no tail, so the tail whip from Diddy gets moved to her hair. She blows bubblegum, so her combustable projectile ala Diddy's peanut popgun is already clear and obvious. She can't have the barrel jetpacks, obviously that would have to be replaced with propeller hair. K Rool has a propeller up B, another echo has already cross-borrowed an up B. Banana peels and the flip-kick side B were both invented for Diddy with no source material necessary other than he's a monkey. They could be changed or kept the same, I mean with Chrom's up B being stolen from Ike anything is possible with the echoes. At this point it caused more harm than good calling these characters echoes because now there is a negative stigma around the characters that get labeled as such, when Sakurai is just trying to give everybody what they want in a reasonable workload. It's a ridiculous amount of pressure being placed on poor Sakurai that fans of Daisy, Dark Samus, Shadow, Dixie Kong, etc all expect/expected these characters to have fresh movesets and will cry foul any other way, most insultingly by saying "then we shouldn't have even had them in the game." Don't you think that's a bit spoiled? I am not just adressing Dixie fans, this goes for just about any character that is translatable as an echo. This is an extremely common mindset that's surfacing all over the place. There isn't enough time and resources to meet everybody's expactations and quite frankly, I don't think any of us could envy Sakurai's job, as even when he's going out of his way to give fans the characters that they ask for, he still gets criticized.

This conversation was happening with Dark Samus, where fans were expressing distaste about the thought of Dark Samus being an echo. Right now it appears that all of the pro-echo people are being labeled as haters or trolls. Um, no, I promise that plenty of level-headed smash speculators are actually just seeing it for what it is. I was a huge proponent for Dark Samus being an echo, and she looks absolutely glorious. I'll also be using Daisy over Peach, and if Dixie gets in I will absolutely use her over Diddy. Echo =/= bad, just because I'm pro-echo for Dixie doesn't make me a hater, it feels like the extremely vocal supporters of Dixie as an original character are smearing pro-echo users because interests are slightly misaligned. I typically don't post in this thread because of that despite loving Dixie and DKC2&3. The expectations on Sakurai are ridiculous and I'm a little alienated by the fanbase because of it.

I wanted to get that out of my system before the pro-echo users in this thread get completely hushed.

 

[GravelerChamp60]

Dixie is necessary for completing the DK roster. Past her, you really don't need anybody else. Cranky could be cool, but certainly isn't a must-have. Since Metroid is finished off with Ridley and Dark Samus, I really want DK to follow suit. We're halfway there with K Rool now. That's why I want Dixie, echo or original doesn't matter to me.

Also, I think it's a little unfair to try silencing the pro-echo people. I would absolutely love to see Dixie either way, but she does make sense as an echo fighter and is a great example of a character that could be just as unique as an echo. She has no tail, so the tail whip from Diddy gets moved to her hair. She blows bubblegum, so her combustable projectile ala Diddy's peanut popgun is already clear and obvious. She can't have the barrel jetpacks, obviously that would have to be replaced with propeller hair. K Rool has a propeller up B, another echo has already cross-borrowed an up B. Banana peels and the flip-kick side B were both invented for Diddy with no source material necessary other than he's a monkey. They could be changed or kept the same, I mean with Chrom's up B being stolen from Ike anything is possible with the echoes. At this point it caused more harm than good calling these characters echoes because now there is a negative stigma around the characters that get labeled as such, when Sakurai is just trying to give everybody what they want in a reasonable workload. It's a ridiculous amount of pressure being placed on poor Sakurai that fans of Daisy, Dark Samus, Shadow, Dixie Kong, etc all expect/expected these characters to have fresh movesets and will cry foul any other way, most insultingly by saying "then we shouldn't have even had them in the game." Don't you think that's a bit spoiled? I am not just adressing Dixie fans, this goes for just about any character that is translatable as an echo. This is an extremely common mindset that's surfacing all over the place. There isn't enough time and resources to meet everybody's expactations and quite frankly, I don't think any of us could envy Sakurai's job, as even when he's going out of his way to give fans the characters that they ask for, he still gets criticized.

This conversation was happening with Dark Samus, where fans were expressing distaste about the thought of Dark Samus being an echo. Right now it appears that all of the pro-echo people are being labeled as haters or trolls. Um, no, I promise that plenty of level-headed smash speculators are actually just seeing it for what it is. I was a huge proponent for Dark Samus being an echo, and she looks absolutely glorious. I'll also be using Daisy over Peach, and if Dixie gets in I will absolutely use her over Diddy. Echo =/= bad, just because I'm pro-echo for Dixie doesn't make me a hater, it feels like the extremely vocal supporters of Dixie as an original character are smearing pro-echo users because interests are slightly misaligned. I typically don't post in this thread because of that despite loving Dixie and DKC2&3. The expectations on Sakurai are ridiculous and I'm a little alienated by the fanbase because of it.

I wanted to get that out of my system before the pro-echo users in this thread get completely hushed.

-Yes! I agree with everything you said! I mean the DK franchise as a whole is much more profitable and popular than Metroid, but if both franchises get to have their 4 most important reps in Smash Ultimate then you can call it fair and even!

-And yes my most wanted character right now is Dixie and I really really want to see her in this game so I prefer having her as an echo than not having her in the game at all. Sakurai already said himself that the concept of echo fighters is to borrow the body of another fighter and then work around the moveset so that statement itself gives Dixie the opportunity to grab from DK's up B and his grab as well to be implemented in her ponytail. I know that it doesn't comply with her character 100%, but it wouldn't destroy it either assuming that we are correct in speculating the specific changes she needs.

 

[BirthNote]

I've got some big posts to reply to so I'm playing catchup one by one.

Well, could bring this post back for newer folk.

I remember seeing Gameboy Advance shown at the local gaming store, sporting Donkey Kong Country and Mario Kart - Super Circuit as the demo games. This was after being introduced to DK-verse via the animated adaptation broadcasted on a German children's channel in our TV, and was surprised to see it was actually a fully-blown videogame series at heart.


After getting GBA SP as a birthday gift some years later along with Pokemon Sapphire, I'd receive Donkey Kong Country 3 a long time after from a friend as a loaned cartridge- though IDK what happened to him because he never asked it back. In fact, I never saw him much since.

Still, the game ended up being ones I'd play good sum out of curiosity or change of pace from more funner ones I had (below).
Within that game, Dixie was a sweet, yet very capable heroine already within - the game also was pretty deep and challenging back in the day for me. I still have fond summery memories of middle 2000s spend with the game along others like Super Mario Advance 2 & 3, Metroid Zero Mission and Pokemon Emerald + Fire Red. Didn't find all Banana Birds for the final boss though.


To be frank, I didn't think much back on Dixie back then, but as time went a dozen of years and I grew as a gamer, I started to noticed how the game itself grew on me more and more as I went back to it now and then. There were two big reasons being this.

One was that I started to notice how Dixie managed to age immensely well as a videogame heroine of my childhood, long after seeing tons of Nintendo-females kind of blending together, even if most of them were pretty remarkable and charismatic on their own. I shared this same sentiment on many other videogame females out there, though I think with them the sexualization or other patriarchal portrayal were much more common.

Of course adding to this is that Dixie was already a definitive Nintendo-heroine, and probably one of the most authentic kind in the videogame history - sharing two titles where she starred majorly (latter being hers), and generally been used here and there around the 2000s at Mario-spinoffs back in the day on top of DK-series' own. All of them had her keep her characteristic charm and design, which ensured me always loving her as much as I did back in the childhood days.

It's not difficult to explain why I need to mention that last paragraph:

Spoiler: What happened to Dixie's sister

On that end, the Smash-games especially tended to emphasize just how much a strong heroine Dixie was, which was really pleasing for me to read and agree with as I played DKC3 around similar times when I owned Melee:

"More than just Diddy Kong's girlfriend, Dixie Kong is also a fearless adventurer and a reliable team player. She earned her wings helping Diddy rescue Donkey Kong from the clutches of King K. Rool. Dixie's amazingly quick and nimble, and she's even able to twirl her ponytail in order to float slowly through the air."

- Super Smash Bros. Melee


Diddy Kong's cutie of a girlfriend with an adorable blond ponytail. That ponytail is hardly for show—it helps propel her through the air for extended hang time and is indispensable for spin-attacking enemies and lifting barrels. Watch out—Dixie packs more power than you might imagine!

- Super Smash Bros. Brawl

"Diddy Kong's girlfriend. She loves to adventure with him. Her ponytail isn't just for show—she can use it to swim faster, soar in the sky, and even lift barrels! With hair that does all that, you can bet she takes good care of it! "

- Super Smash Bros. 4 Wii U & 3DS


Moving on- the second reason why she grew much on me, was the setting of DKC3, referred as "Northern Kremisphere".

Over the years as I grew older, I came to realize that Northern Kremisphere was surprisingly, VERY similar to the environment I grew up on - I was born on Finland, and still live there in it's capital city Helsinki.

With that, many places I grew in my childhood were usually these built-in towns covered in forests, with occassional lake or river leading to sea in some other areas. I tended to explore such places highly when young - probably why I loved games like Pokemon or Zelda 1 + Link To The Past later.

So with just how many evergreen forests and lake backdrops there were in DKC3, accompanied mills, snowy mountains and more, had me grow immensely close with the game, almost like playing through a fantastic take on my home country - though if to say something, my parents are immigrants, so lil' tidbit about myself.

Interestingly enough, it was kind of confirmed that Northern Kremisphere was made to be inspired by landscapes and environments seen in Canada and Northern Europe - which includes Scandinavian countries. As far as I know where I live, Rareware did an amazing job capturing and then building further on the familiar domains I lived within.

For this reason, Dixie's become highly representative of my gamer self and also representing the very childhood memories + environment I grew up on, while also being one of most iconic Nintendo-heroines still not among the others in Smash Bros today - which is an immense disservice to her if it keeps up by this point.
Though it helps that Smash Bros seems to have certain fondness and consideration to her during the series' run, as she considered actually to Brawl alongside Diddy (didn't make it sadly) the Trophy descriptions, etc.

It's still a long way, but there's been better pickups I never realized to suddenly happen and love more than SSB4 (Richter Belmont), which have tided me in better through this long wait until the release - and along with such big or popular names getting such focus, I feel this truly feels like back to form of what made me fall in love with Smash to begin with - and what's even more, I truly believe possibilities can go anywhere now with what we could get next.

Dixie I'm still wondering if she'd be an Echo in vein of how Daisy's such a "Yellow Peach", but I think it'd be more notable crime to just make her imitate Diddy to the fullest tee.

Nevertheless... I dearly hope she'll join in, now or never - as this clearly looks to be a very last chance to really be part of the series' peak, with it's ultimate line-up of gaming's most biggest, from Nintendo and beyond. If making it, it's no doubt that that she'll not only be completing the core quadret of Donke Kong Country's amazing trilogy, but will also be embellishing that cultural, nostalgic side of me to my memories of Smash forever.

Best wishes to all of us, and most of all, to Dixie's end. May she whirl her way to our vicinity sooner or later...

This is an awesome story! So personal and relatable--I gotta ask you 2 questions because of this. First, what do you think of Autumn Heights in Tropical Freeze? It gave me a very DKC3-like vibe and honestly it's one of my favorite islands fom the game, especially Horn Top Hop. Also, do you draw those images? They look very well done.

 

[cybersai]

I'm really interested in knowing if Diddy's pink clothes alt was removed, any info on that Best Buy demo coming?

Diddy has been suspiciously absent in all playable demos, mainly because we've never seen his final smash or if his pink clothes alt is still there. If we finally get to see Diddy playable to the public, we may get our answers even before Dixie is revealed, assuming she's in the game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

First, what do you think of Autumn Heights in Tropical Freeze? It gave me a very DKC3-like vibe and honestly it's one of my favorite islands fom the game, especially Horn Top Hop.

I have to yet go get Tropical Freeze still, which feels bit of a crime at this point since it's been praised in and out and I even have the money.
Maybe it's the lack of a community to share my explorations on the series with some fellow big fans as of late, so hadn't really got to it )among many other games I'm planning to buy).

But I got some money now, maybe I could go do it. At least you gave some kind of thing to look forward to curiously. The images look like an HD-styled reimagining of such landscapes mixed with some other kind I've seen in other games (Klonoa or Skies of Arcadia).

Also, do you draw those images? They look very well done.

Oh boy.

As much as I'd love to draw that well, they're not mine. *nervous laughter*

The credit goes to Fuji Hiroshi, Valkyrie's official character designer - and these are from his Valkyrie-manga I managed to find raws and make icons of for an RP blog many many years back.

Don't think too much on it.

 

[ChronoBound]

The credit goes to Ouji Hiroi, Valkyrie's official character designer - and these are from his Valkyrie-manga I managed to find raws and make icons of for an RP blog many many years back.

Don't think too much on it.

Have you played Legend of the Valkyrie? Its like an arcade version of The Legend of Zelda, but with platforming. Its translated into English as part of Namco Museum Volume 5, which was originally released for the PS1. This compilation was re-released digitally for the PlayStation Store, and can be downloaded for a small price ($5.99) if you have a PS3, PSP, or Vita.

I actually remember your story about why you want Dixie Kong and love DKC3 from the pre-Smash 4 days. It is nice to see it again for a new generation to appreciate.

 

[Koopaul]

Just remember what a tight spot it is for newcomers this time around. Sakurai prioritized bringing back every veteran. The large amount of echo fighters we seem to be getting is a direct result of the very few unique newcomers Sakurai made. I'm guessing the echo fighters were mostly made last which is why they share a number with who they are echoing as to not reveal the final number of characters in the game.

So what does this have to do with Dixie. I'd say being an echo is the best shot Dixie has this time around. Positions are tighter than ever before and Sakurai is clearly padding things out with echoes. In a way, being an echo is a silver lining for Dixie as I do not believe she will make it otherwise.

Do I want her to be an echo? No. I'd rather her be a unique fighter to show the world just what a unique and awesome Kong she is. But it's better than nothing.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Just remember what a tight spot it is for newcomers this time around. Sakurai prioritized bringing back every veteran. The large amount of echo fighters we seem to be getting is a direct result of the very few unique newcomers Sakurai made. I'm guessing the echo fighters were mostly made last which is why they share a number with who they are echoing as to not reveal the final number of characters in the game.

So what does this have to do with Dixie. I'd say being an echo is the best shot Dixie has this time around. Positions are tighter than ever before and Sakurai is clearly padding things out with echoes. In a way, being an echo is a silver lining for Dixie as I do not believe she will make it otherwise.

Do I want her to be an echo? No. I'd rather her be a unique fighter to show the world just what a unique and awesome Kong she is. But it's better than nothing.

I kinda feel like we all sort of share this same sentiment deep within ourselves by now - but like I had seen with Daisy, it's annoyed me how it has made people strangely averse on wanting better of Dixie as an unique character. Echoes still are more or less carbon copies of the character they take after, unless they get a different special and stuff.

They've clearly been shown to be lower priority in means of characters that you can see it exhibiting right through - now we're getting Daisy pulling now Turnips despite never been in SMB2 before and like.
I know Smash has done stuff like that before but at some point it gets really glaring and canuin the value in these characters being part of the roster as a whole. Why not let her pluck up certain powerup-flowers from Mario-games or something?

And now Dixie needs to be apparently be pushed as all of this, instead of being unique? To me it feels really putting aside what made her so appealing at first place to all of us here, and we more care about seeing her in the CSS of Ultimate than anything.

Really? Is that what it has become now?

So far Ultimate, and Smash Bros in general, has shown on such insane potential to surprise us, so I want to throw some wishes on that end whilst keeping expectations low. I mean, I still can't believe I got to see Richter suddenly be revealed be in this fanfest, with my favorite look on the guy no less.

Nonetheless, I believe Dixie being unique isn't some ideal to be discarded, just because Echoes are easier to make. Echoes still trade something away from the characters very majorly, and it's something with Dixie that we don't want to see.

*Serious SHAFT head tilt*

Have you played Legend of the Valkyrie? Its like an arcade version of The Legend of Zelda, but with platforming. Its translated into English as part of Namco Museum Volume 5, which was originally released for the PS1. This compilation was re-released digitally for the PlayStation Store, and can be downloaded for a small price ($5.99) if you have a PS3, PSP, or Vita.

Funny you ask me that kind of question, since I sort of took it most people assume I have played the games due carrying this gal as my "muse" of sorts. Just a habit stuck from my older days of RP:ing as her in Tumblr. Ahhahhah.

But if to answer your question - yes, I have, along with Adventure of Valkyrie for Famicom. The latter's even more like Zelda though, with some Dragon Quest-inspired RPG elements mixed in.
I tend to call Valkyrie "Female Link" sometimes due this, but I guess the similarities fall between that and Pit, respectively. Still, that main theme from LoV gets me always pumping in when playing on Pac-Land with Namco Arcade Retro Medley 2-track playing it at some point.

Speaking which, I even made a support thread for Valkyrie again out of the old SSB4-one I had, after people here kept ask me who's that girl in my icons.
Nevertheless I have to go advertise that thread a bit more actively since there's some demand, I believe. There you can I find good sum of history on the character + moveset ideas based on her games as I had explored them.

Oh yeah, one of my most fave things I remember was finding Valk sleeping at one of the rooms dedicated for Legend of Valkyrie in Namco Museum 5:

I actually remember your story about why you want Dixie Kong and love DKC3 from the pre-Smash 4 days. It is nice to see it again for a new generation to appreciate.

Yeah, I remember being bit surprise it managed to inspire certain folk around these parts. But again, I'd say this is what makes Dixie so dear to me with. Smash can bring a lot things together that way.

It's been kind of a trip due all of that, especially with me kind of finding stinging disappointments in the way - such as Wario not allowed to be his Wario Land-self in Smash, Toad is still dismissed, Starfy getting ruined for good due becoming an Assist, Chrom being a brunt of memetic loserism before passing that to Waluigi as of Ultimate, etc.

But this one's doing noticeably more things right, and I hope we get just more of that, especially with such ambitious scale Ultimate's been shown to have.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Just remember what a tight spot it is for newcomers this time around. Sakurai prioritized bringing back every veteran. The large amount of echo fighters we seem to be getting is a direct result of the very few unique newcomers Sakurai made. I'm guessing the echo fighters were mostly made last which is why they share a number with who they are echoing as to not reveal the final number of characters in the game.

So what does this have to do with Dixie. I'd say being an echo is the best shot Dixie has this time around. Positions are tighter than ever before and Sakurai is clearly padding things out with echoes. In a way, being an echo is a silver lining for Dixie as I do not believe she will make it otherwise.

Do I want her to be an echo? No. I'd rather her be a unique fighter to show the world just what a unique and awesome Kong she is. But it's better than nothing.

I disagree tbh, if sakurai wants a character to be unique he won't make them an echo for the sake of saving time, especially since they could just be added later on as DLC. If sakurai really wants them as a unique fighter them will be one and if he thinks that they're fine as an echo they'll be an echo. Whether she's an echo or not is all down to his thoughts on the character and whether he thinks she's worth adding as a unique fighter, time constraits likely won't change that

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I'm feeling ESPECIALLY strongly right now that Sakurai is going to surprise us with the amount of Unique newcomers. I'm starting to even think their may be secret characters; despite what he said/implied. Dixie just seems more and more likely imo.

 

[StormC]

I'm feeling ESPECIALLY strongly right now that Sakurai is going to surprise us with the amount of Unique newcomers. I'm starting to even think their may be secret characters; despite what he said/implied. Dixie just seems more and more likely imo.

He didn't imply anything. He said, and I quote, "this time, we plan to reveal the design of every fighter before the game launches. We'll have a few more to announce later, so stay tuned."

He even used a hand gesture to emphasize "just a few." It's pretty clear he views echoes as "bonus" fighters and the "don't expect too many new challengers" is referring to unique fighters. Expecting Sakurai to pull a reversal and actually have a ton of characters is asking for disappointment.

especially since they could just be added later on as DLC

Sakurai doesn't think about DLC when developing for the base game, otherwise he wouldn't add so many popular characters as ATs.

 

[FunAtParties]

Sakurai doesn't think about DLC when developing for the base game, otherwise he wouldn't add so many popular characters as ATs.

You literally can't confirm that. I know that's what a lot of people wanna believe, but he could easily be planning DLC as we speak.

 

[StormC]

You literally can't confirm that. I know that's what a lot of people wanna believe, but he could easily be planning DLC as we speak.

https://kotaku.com/smash-bros-creator-on-intolerable-dlc-1699908411

The truth is that the DLC for Smash Bros. was developed after the full game was completed.

Unless he totally changed his MO literally after finishing DLC for Smash 4 (inb4Ridley), it should be the same scenario here.

 

[FunAtParties]

https://kotaku.com/smash-bros-creator-on-intolerable-dlc-1699908411



Unless he totally changed his MO literally after finishing DLC for Smash 4 (inb4Ridley), it should be the same scenario here.

Smash 4 stuff doesn't apply here. You say in 4Ridley, but yeah Ridley. Plus idc what the philosophy behind Mewtwo's inclusion was (he's a gift guys), it was still planned DLC to test how people were gonna react to it. If they didn't have any plan in place for him, he wouldnt have been announced as early as he was.

Seeing that DLC was such a huge success last game I can near guarantee it's coming back, and I highly doubt they dont have any sort of plan in place for it now.

 

[StormC]

Smash 4 stuff doesn't apply here. You say in 4Ridley, but yeah Ridley. Plus idc what the philosophy behind Mewtwo's inclusion was (he's a gift guys), it was still planned DLC to test how people were gonna react to it. If they didn't have any plan in place for him, he wouldnt have been announced as early as he was.

Mewtwo was announced a couple of months after Smash 3DS already went gold in Japan, so the idea that they deliberately held back Mewtwo to test DLC is merely speculation. We don't have any real data or information on why Mewtwo was not in the base game, other than perhaps being low priority.

 

[GravelerChamp60]

I'm feeling ESPECIALLY strongly right now that Sakurai is going to surprise us with the amount of Unique newcomers. I'm starting to even think their may be secret characters; despite what he said/implied. Dixie just seems more and more likely imo.

Well you never know because Nintendo did say that we were getting most of the information on the game closer to its release, around the time we had that drought of information between E3 and the 8/8 direct.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Smash 4 stuff doesn't apply here. You say in 4Ridley, but yeah Ridley. Plus idc what the philosophy behind Mewtwo's inclusion was (he's a gift guys), it was still planned DLC to test how people were gonna react to it. If they didn't have any plan in place for him, he wouldnt have been announced as early as he was.

Seeing that DLC was such a huge success last game I can near guarantee it's coming back, and I highly doubt they dont have any sort of plan in place for it now.

Yes dlc is still a possibility but it probably won't be announced after the game is completed.

 

[FunAtParties]

Mewtwo was announced a couple of months after Smash 3DS already went gold in Japan, so the idea that they deliberately held back Mewtwo to test DLC is merely speculation. We don't have any real data or information on why Mewtwo was not in the base game, other than perhaps being low priority.

Regardless of the 3DS version being out or not he has still announced with some work done before the Wii U version was out, so it was still clearly planned DLC. Whether it was a last second decision, or planned from the start, idk and won't claim to know, but it's not as though they made the decision months after both versions were out.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I kinda feel like we all sort of share this same sentiment deep within ourselves by now - but like I had seen with Daisy, it's annoyed me how it has made people strangely averse on wanting better of Dixie as an unique character. Echoes still are more or less carbon copies of the character they take after, unless they get a different special and stuff.

They've clearly been shown to be lower priority in means of characters that you can see it exhibiting right through - now we're getting Daisy pulling now Turnips despite never been in SMB2 before and like.
I know Smash has done stuff like that before but at some point it gets really glaring and canuin the value in these characters being part of the roster as a whole. Why not let her pluck up certain powerup-flowers from Mario-games or something?

And now Dixie needs to be apparently be pushed as all of this, instead of being unique? To me it feels really putting aside what made her so appealing at first place to all of us here, and we more care about seeing her in the CSS of Ultimate than anything.

Really? Is that what it has become now?

So far Ultimate, and Smash Bros in general, has shown on such insane potential to surprise us, so I want to throw some wishes on that end whilst keeping expectations low. I mean, I still can't believe I got to see Richter suddenly be revealed be in this fanfest, with my favorite look on the guy no less.

Nonetheless, I believe Dixie being unique isn't some ideal to be discarded, just because Echoes are easier to make. Echoes still trade something away from the characters very majorly, and it's something with Dixie that we don't want to see.



*Serious SHAFT head tilt*

I'm pretty sure most of her fans rather have her unique but the thing is that there's only so many characters left to add(I'm going to guess 3 to 5 at least) I don't believe someone with a similar structure will have that chance especially when other characters can provide much more. It's okay to believe that the idea of her being unique is possible but it doesn't seem very likely which is why there's still a good amount of people who would be satisfied with Dixie being an echo which is why you can't speak for everyone (it's to note that out of all the possible "echoes" she was in 2nd place only beaten by Shadow the hedgehog so you're definitely wrong on that), it's definitely better than having to represent her as just a pink costumed Diddy again.

 

[Koopaul]

I disagree tbh, if sakurai wants a character to be unique he won't make them an echo for the sake of saving time, especially since they could just be added later on as DLC. If sakurai really wants them as a unique fighter them will be one and if he thinks that they're fine as an echo they'll be an echo. Whether she's an echo or not is all down to his thoughts on the character and whether he thinks she's worth adding as a unique fighter, time constraits likely won't change that

Well my point is there is probably going to be a much smaller pool of unique fighters thus time around. And those unique fighters are probably reserved for the absolute biggest fan favorites, most popular, or iconic characters.

-We got Inkling, the mascot of Nintendo's hottest new series.
-We got Ridley, historically by far the most requested character in Smash history.
-We got Simon, a gaming legend from the NES days.
-And we got K. Rool the obvious ballot winner.

As much as I love Dixie she simple doesn't hold a torch to these guys. She's not as requested as K. Rool/Ridley, she's not as legendary as Simon, and she's not the mascot of hit new series. So yeah, the heat is on for who is big enough to be those lucky few that Sakurai's team decided to work hard on and make a unique fighter.

But it also seems like he wants to make as many people happy as possible and include as many characters as possible in some way. So he probably sees an opportunity to make easy fighters that have a similar build and movement to others to please those fans.

This is why Shovel Knight is an Assist Trophy. Shovel Knight couldn't make it to the top to be a unique fighter like Simon, but he also couldn't be anyone's echo. But he wanted to please Shovel Knight fans, so he included him as an assist.

This is speculation but it just makes sense from a developers perspective. It's about priorities, time management, and trying to get in as many fan favorites on the battlefield as possible in some shape or form.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Not sure if this has been posted yet (and I realize that Dixie supporters really don't want Dixie to be an Echo, since she wouldn't have her hair abilities from her home games if was 1:1 with Diddy, but hear me out)

but have you guys considered the possibility that Shantae could be a new playable character and could share a special or two that involves her hair with a hypothetical Dixie Kong Echo? Hear me out. Diddy's only tail-using move was removed in Ultimate**, and Dixie has always been very similar to Diddy in her home games aside from the prehensile hair. Chrom showed us you can be an Echo of one fighter but borrow a move or two from someone else.

If Dixie is a Diddy Echo but uses a Shantae move or two (prehensile hair attack/spin), that would explain why she was not shown alongside King K. Rool as to not spoil Shantae in advance. I'm not the first one to come up with this theory, but I thought it was sound enough to share here.

Given Diddy's tail attack removal and pink palette removal, and all of the stuff with WayForward being silent about Smash Bros when very vocal in the past (and teasing Smash to hell and back with the Jammies Mode DLC), do you guys thing a Shantae could be revealed alongside Dixie Kong?

**Okay, the tail move could be there, but so far we only seen the jab set. But the possibility still exists. The reason I keep bringing this up in Dixie discussions is because I and several others predicted Chrom and Dark Samus by what was missing from the characters that referenced them previously. Robin's FS was not shown despite many other characters showing there's, and Chrom was originally planned for Smash 4, so his Echo inclusion made sense. Dark Samus's AT skipped the AT chopping block and Samus's Dark palette was missing. She's here too. A lot of people, myself included, are wondering if Shadow is a likely Echo since his AT is MIA and Knuckles AT has been promoted extensively and from the beginning. And as Chrom proved, Echo's don't necessarily have to be 1:1 and can borrow a move or two from other characters. Replace Sonic's Spring to Mewtwo's Teleport for Shadow and he's already a lot more "Shadow".

Given some of the things lining up for Shantae's inclusion, if she IS in, that'd be a great excuse to give Dixie a hair move from her to not be 1:1 with Diddy, while still squeezing her inclusion in. It's conjecture, but I believe it has substance. Again I'm not saying it's ideal and should be preferred over a unique moveset, but considering bringing back all the Vets and having so many other newcomers being hinted at, I think this is Dixie's best chance.

 

[StormC]

Regardless of the 3DS version being out or not he has still announced with some work done before the Wii U version was out, so it was still clearly planned DLC. Whether it was a last second decision, or planned from the start, idk and won't claim to know, but it's not as though they made the decision months after both versions were out.

Smash 3DS and Wii U share the same roster so for all intents and purposes development on the roster was already done by the time 3DS was out. Smash Wii U had likely already gone gold by the time the Direct aired anyway, or was about to, rendering the distinction a matter of semantics. Rendering a model to display in a stream doesn't take months, so we have no idea what the timeline is for Mewtwo's development. Like I said, it's all just speculation.

I kinda feel like we all sort of share this same sentiment deep within ourselves by now - but like I had seen with Daisy, it's annoyed me how it has made people strangely averse on wanting better of Dixie as an unique character. Echoes still are more or less carbon copies of the character they take after, unless they get a different special and stuff.

They've clearly been shown to be lower priority in means of characters that you can see it exhibiting right through - now we're getting Daisy pulling now Turnips despite never been in SMB2 before and like.
I know Smash has done stuff like that before but at some point it gets really glaring and canuin the value in these characters being part of the roster as a whole. Why not let her pluck up certain powerup-flowers from Mario-games or something?

And now Dixie needs to be apparently be pushed as all of this, instead of being unique? To me it feels really putting aside what made her so appealing at first place to all of us here, and we more care about seeing her in the CSS of Ultimate than anything.

Dixie is not being "pushed" as an echo fighter. None of us talking about her on this message board are going to have an effect on whether or not she will be in the base game. It's just that a lot of us feel this is the most realistic outcome, and are ready for it, and would rather have this than not have her in the game. Saying we just want her in the CSS of Ultimate is sort of insulting; we want an iconic character fully playable in the game and to resonate in culture with the rest of the Smash cast for years and years to come. If being an echo is the ticket into it, so be it.

Also, I'm going to be frank, Dixie was probably always going to get in as some sort of clone. Outside of using her hair as a dash attack, aerial move, and grab in the DKC series, very little meaningfully separates her from Diddy. This might sound harsh but it's the truth. She even has a popgun based on Diddy's in Tropical Freeze. We can sit here and come up with hair tornadoes and whatnot until our fingers fall off, but the reality is any character can have a unique moveset theorized, but what it comes down to is obvious and immediate potential. Dixie sharing the same build with another fighter in Smash and many of his attributes means this was probably an inevitability.

If this makes me some sort of hater, or not a true Dixie fan, or something, then so be it. But I'd rather not see Dixie try to fight off other characters for the faint potential of a DLC slot than just have her in the game, period. Let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm just thinking about the project plan. If I was Sakurai and I planned on making the Ultimate Smash Bros for the fans, and want include as many requested things as possible, I would have to figure out a feasible way to do that. And cutting some corners for certain characters just makes sense.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm pretty sure most of her fans rather have her unique but the is that there's only so many characters left to add(I'm going to guess 3 to 5 at least) I don't believe someone with a similar structure will have that chance especially when other characters can provide much more. It's okay to believe that the idea of her being unique is possible but it doesn't seem very likely which is why there's still a good amount of people who would be satisfied with Dixie being an echo which is why you can't speak for everyone, it's definitely better than having to represent her as just a pink costumed Diddy again.

Perhaps, but again, how much different would she be from being compared to Pink Diddy-costume again, aside from unique model, cosmetic animations to mere idle stance, victory poses and like?

Her being an Echo still sells her very short of her true character and unique aspects due such emphasis on "bare minimum" being lauded on as her only chance, and might as well be seen that way up to the next game, where people have all but misinterpreted her as Pink Girl Diddy to the ground -because that's how she'd exactly would end up being in Ultimate. I can see it probably happening, but that doesn't mean I will force myself to like it because it was Dixie's only way of being in. I just hate how these become permanent to the Echoes included, unless they actually get to receive Brawl-esque semicloning (sans Roy in 4).

I think I had also stated I'd be kind of okay if she's not in Ultimate due this - if that means her uniqueness and overall legacy won't get reduced to being just "Girl Diddy" for rest of the series as a consequence of trying to squeeze her in such forced fashion to please us Dixie-fans - which'd then lead on with Sakurai not wanting to modify Dixie any further than that because it'd "alienate" us former players of her. And imagining my long wait for her just to become nothing more than almost 1:1 Diddy Clone, would feel insanely disappointing compared how I know Dixie as.

If you'd ask me how I'd best take her, I'd at least want to see her be allowed to do her own spin on Diddy's moves or at least intergrate her ponytail in a way that allows her to be part of the standard attacks Diddy has, allowing better bridging between their shared abilities and keeping Dixie feeling fresh enough you can't clearly tell she's just imitating someone else, outside the context of being near her original counterpart - unlike Daisy.

It's why I find Richter more natural due him and Simon basically combining their abilities to a moveset that serves both characters well.

Dixie is not being "pushed" as an echo fighter. None of us talking about her on this message board are going to have an effect on whether or not she will be in the base game. It's just that a lot of us feel this is the most realistic outcome, and are ready for it, and would rather have this than not have her in the game. Saying we just want her in the CSS of Ultimate is sort of insulting; we want an iconic character fully playable in the game and to resonate in culture with the rest of the Smash cast for years and years to come. If being an echo is the ticket into it, so be it.

I kind of feel same that her being Echo is most realistic - it's just that Echoes are just rather cookie-cutter stuff themselves, unless they actually share same moves as their original counterpart, making them feel seamlessly intergrated anyway. And like I said, she's gonna be an Echo forever. I mean, if that's okay with you, alright. I'd just feel like we'll never get to see Dixie in her true essence ever again.

Also, I'm going to be frank, Dixie was probably always going to get in as some sort of clone. Outside of using her hair as a dash attack, aerial move, and grab in the DKC series, very little meaningfully separates her from Diddy. This might sound harsh but it's the truth. She even has a popgun based on Diddy's in Tropical Freeze. We can sit here and come up with hair tornadoes and whatnot until our fingers fall off, but the reality is any character can have a unique moveset theorized, but what it comes down to is obvious and immediate potential. Dixie sharing the same build with another fighter in Smash and many of his attributes means this was probably an inevitability.

I'd be all fine with a semi-clone with all those things shown up to this point in DKC, but as I said, they could still go some lee-way to explore at least some Brawl-esque semicloning on standard attacks and like. Right now her doing everything EXACTLY like Diddy does sans probable change Up-B and not even bothering anything with the ponytail beyond that, feels like the devs didn't even bother exploring Dixie on her own right, just because she's meant to be a clone. Daisy probably gets to get away with this, but Dixie clearly has been done more unique things prior to allow her stand out - making her cloniness quite glaring after such long establishment of her signature traits.

If this makes me some sort of hater, or not a true Dixie fan, or something, then so be it. But I'd rather not see Dixie try to fight off other characters for the faint potential of a DLC slot than just have her in the game, period. Let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

I'm incline believe you're more a fan and going to get tons more out of Dixie as an Echo than I can, if you can enjoy her despite being mostly a cosmetic clone of some other character, with probably a difference or two. I just can't live with bare minimum since to me, they don't just last long for me.

 

[StormC]

I mean, if you're okay with Dixie missing the game for both base and DLC, and ready to wait for Smash 6... then more power to you. But I'm getting old, man. I can't do this Smash speculation business forever. I've been doing this since the damn Dojo. I'd rather see Dixie in this amazing game, with Everyone Is Here, and fully established as a Nintendo All-Star then have to wait for the future. Hell, I seriously thought after Smash 4 I would have to wait until my 30s to play as K. Rool. Don't want to have to go through that again with Dixie. I want to see fanart and memes, I want to play as my dream match up of DK/Diddy/K. Rool/Dixie, I want both her and Banjo included so I can have a four way fight between classic Rareware characters along with Diddy and K. Rool.

Being an echo is far from an ideal situation but the pros outweigh the cons in my mind, when it comes to having her in the game at all.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Perhaps, but again, how much different would she be from being compared to Pink Diddy-costume again, aside from unique model, cosmetic animations to mere idle stance, victory poses and like?

Echoes can have their own victory poses obviously(this was already demonstrated in the previous game with Dark Pit and Lucina) and have different idol animations, only the a button attacks would have the hit boxes. Also she could have Dk's up b which originated from Dixie in Dkc 2 anyway, Chrom has shown that Echoes can different b moves from other characters that they aren't based upon.

Her being an Echo still sells her very short of her true character and unique aspects due such emphasis on "bare minimum" being lauded on as her only chance, and might as well be seen that way up to the next game, where people have all but misinterpreted her as Pink Girl Diddy to the ground -because that's how she'd exactly would end up being in Ultimate. I can see it probably happening, but that doesn't mean I will force myself to like it because it was Dixie's only way of being in. I just hate how these become permanent to the Echoes included, unless they actually get to receive Brawl-esque semicloning (sans Roy in 4).

The detractors are usually lower than the people who would be happy just to have her playable, we are just be realistic. You can believe what you want but don't try to convince others to believe the same.

I would be totally fine with something like this. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IfDdd7c91Q

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I mean, if you're okay with Dixie missing the game for both base and DLC, and ready to wait for Smash 6... then more power to you. But I'm getting old, man. I can't do this Smash speculation business forever. I've been doing this since the damn Dojo. I'd rather see Dixie in this amazing game, with Everyone Is Here, and fully established as a Nintendo All-Star then have to wait for the future. Hell, I seriously thought after Smash 4 I would have to wait until my 30s to play as K. Rool. Don't want to have to go through that again with Dixie. I want to see fanart and memes, I want to play as my dream match up of DK/Diddy/K. Rool/Dixie, I want both her and Banjo included so I can have a four way fight between classic Rareware characters along with Diddy and K. Rool.

Being an echo is far from an ideal situation but the pros outweigh the cons in my mind, when it comes to having her in the game at all.

Agreed with you on these points, if there's one thing about fan art I was always kind of disappointed when people make safe for work of the female characters in Smash that Dixie is missing(she's Nintendo's 2nd female protagonist after all) and it would make me so happy to have her part of that group(among other types of cool artwork) instead of saddened images of being left out like many of the other disconfirmed characters. I want to see joyful artwork of her and I know even as an echo the majority of fans will still be happy.

 

[BirthNote]

Still catching up.

So I'm gonna be honest, I find this kind of rhetoric, for lack of a better word, odd. Specifically the bit about being in your 30s and not waiting for her in the next game. First of all there is no expiration date on enjoying something. You might not enjoy it anymore in your 30s, maybe you will, maybe you won't have time. Who knows? But I don't know why you would essentially plan around not being interested in something, because who knows where you'll be or what will interest you by then anyway? There's certainly no such thing as being too old to enjoy gaming (or whatever other hobby you might enjoy). Enjoy what you enjoy and cherish it in the moment.

It's not about enjoying the next Smash that can't possibly live up to this one, it's the fact that I have to contend with non-video game stuff the older I get. Looking at my current responsibilities and the realization that I'll have more as the years progress tells me that: A) I can't spend most of my time on the web like when I was a teenager, B) I need to put a lot less energy into message boards going forward and C) Real life is going to take over my spare time. I'm not gonna bother waiting on the next SSB when most of the characters I want are already here and the next is gonna have Thanos-level wipeouts at best.

But also in that vein, Ultimate isn't even out yet and we're claiming the next game can't possibly live up? How can we possibly know that? I feel like you've gotten an idea in your head about what the game is and what it represents to you and that has become muddled with the reality. I'm getting the sense that no matter how good Ultimate is it likely won't live up to your expectations. And besides, even if it does, why would you assume the next game can't match it? We'll find out when it releases, but it seems odd to make claims about it now. And frankly I don't know why we would even be thinking about the next game now when Ultimate isn't even out yet.

But let's say you're right and you won't have time or be invested when the next game comes around. Why worry about it then? If you aren't invested you can't possibly be disappointed. So I guess I don't really see how the stakes change.

How do I know it won't live up? Look at this game, and aaaallllllll the content being packed into it. Over 100 stages, about 900 music tracks and nearly 80 characters. Sakurai busts his a** with each Smash, but this one is going above and beyond our expectations by miles; he's a workaholic x11. Where could the next Smash possibly go from here? No cuts? More characters? More 3rd Parties? More content? Smash is a bubble and it's about to burst; this game is a Herculean effort among Herculean efforts that would be daunting to surpass, and Nintendo's far better off rebooting the series, creating massive cuts that'd make Thanos seem generous, and let's not get started on current gaming practices. Tell me exactly how many fighters of the current age have this much content, or for an easier question, half as much. If you can name any, tell me how many of those didn't rely on DLC and Nickel & Diming us to get that stuff. In an age where it's A-OK to charge us for crap that should've been in the game already, something with Smash's dedication is mythological, but they will not keep that up. Smash 6 has the unenviable challnge of meeting unrealistic fan expectations AND topping the zenith of the series, and they're better off not fighting that battle and being smart about it, via reboot.

And quite frankly, your sense that I won't enjoy Ultimate is wrong. I've loved all the previous Smash games and am very excited for this one; I recently stopped playing SSB4 a couple weeks back to easily adjust to Ultimate, and I've been playing that game consistently since 2014. I'm in awe of all the effort that Ultimate's getting and been appreciating all the new content, and I said I'll enjoy this game whether she's in or not, because Dixie Kong and Rayman weren't the only characters I've ever wanted--they're my final 2, and with everyone else here if they don't make the cut I'll live.

Further, some people on this site and others have used the argument that she should get in as an Echo so we could individualize her later. There are already people thinking about Smash 6, and I'm pointing out the futility of that with the likelihood of that game's direction, and saying that if she's not in this game, I'm done speculating so I won't be on whatever support thread that pops up. The way things are going, Ultimate is likely to be my last Smash, so I want this to be the game where Dixie shows up, Unique or Semi-Clone. But as I said in the last paragraph, if that doesn't happen I'll live; I got too much real life stuff to contend with than to be bitter over a game that I know I'll enjoy.

 

[Luigi player]

Random thoughts about Dixie I have atm:

- since they had planned for Dixie to be in brawl it could help her be a bit more unique maybe, combining this with other things that make it easier for them to include her (like using Diddys model-stats/hurtboxes and just readjusting them for different animations etc for Dixie) I think it's possible for her to appear as a semiclone or the least echoy of the echos..

- I think it's not impossible for her to appear as an assist trophy.. Idk, it could feel more right than being an echo since she could have a few unique moves and still move around and stuff. Of course we've seen KlapTrap so maybe they'll just keep the DK ATs with that... or we could see a Dixie reveal with a Rambi AT?

- I wonder if they would keep her out of the game if they planned for her to join (as a non-echo), but couldn't finish her on time for the release to release her after the games launch as DLC.. or if they'd try to grade her down to an AT (or echo). I think them waiting for DLC would be more likely lol.
She will super duper likely appear in the game in some form.. either playable or an AT. If she isn't she has to be planned for DLC.

- if they include her as an echo and she would indeed get DKs upb I hope she'd have it a bit different. Like going more upwards than horizontally.. like similar to GaW or WFT or something. It would really make her much worse in the air than Diddy if she would just have DKs "not far up-going" upb, which would make her quite a bit worse while also being way out of character (imo, since she should be more comfortable in the air).
I also don't want her to be fixated on a banana, so I hope that they'd change that move as well. Otherwise she'd just be a little different Diddy, which would make him less unique as well. I also can't imagine her doing a cartwheel. It looked so weird in that one PM(?) video of her... that just doesn't work.
I feel like Dixie could be popular enough to change a few more things about her if she turns out to be an echo (so more like what I mentioned in my first point, with her being more semi-clony).

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

He didn't imply anything. He said, and I quote, "this time, we plan to reveal the design of every fighter before the game launches. We'll have a few more to announce later, so stay tuned."

He even used a hand gesture to emphasize "just a few." It's pretty clear he views echoes as "bonus" fighters and the "don't expect too many new challengers" is referring to unique fighters. Expecting Sakurai to pull a reversal and actually have a ton of characters is asking for disappointment.



Sakurai doesn't think about DLC when developing for the base game, otherwise he wouldn't add so many popular characters as ATs.

The game isn't developed with DLC in mind and no DLC is developed before the game drops, doesn't necessarily mean they don't have plans for what they want DLC to be.

I'm just thinking about the project plan. If I was Sakurai and I planned on making the Ultimate Smash Bros for the fans, and want include as many requested things as possible, I would have to figure out a feasible way to do that. And cutting some corners for certain characters just makes sense.

But if he wanted Dixie as a unique character she'd be planned as one, if he wanted her as a clone she'd be planned as one in the project plan. I don't think he'd end up making her an echo for the sake of saving time and completely wasting whatever concept he came up with for her.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Hypothetically; What if in the last direct he announces 'Keep a look out for some surprise challengers"? That would technically fit within the parameters of "announcing' them lmao. Not necessarily what I think is going to happen; but would you say that's a possibility lol? In particular, I can't shake this idea that there may be a secret tribute fighter to Iwata, like Balloon Fighter.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Random thoughts about Dixie I have atm:

- since they had planned for Dixie to be in brawl it could help her be a bit more unique maybe, combining this with other things that make it easier for them to include her (like using Diddys model-stats/hurtboxes and just readjusting them for different animations etc for Dixie) I think it's possible for her to appear as a semiclone or the least echoy of the echos..

- I think it's not impossible for her to appear as an assist trophy.. Idk, it could feel more right than being an echo since she could have a few unique moves and still move around and stuff. Of course we've seen KlapTrap so maybe they'll just keep the DK ATs with that... or we could see a Dixie reveal with a Rambi AT?

- I wonder if they would keep her out of the game if they planned for her to join (as a non-echo), but couldn't finish her on time for the release to release her after the games launch as DLC.. or if they'd try to grade her down to an AT (or echo). I think them waiting for DLC would be more likely lol.
She will super duper likely appear in the game in some form.. either playable or an AT. If she isn't she has to be planned for DLC.

- if they include her as an echo and she would indeed get DKs upb I hope she'd have it a bit different. Like going more upwards than horizontally.. like similar to GaW or WFT or something. It would really make her much worse in the air than Diddy if she would just have DKs "not far up-going" upb, which would make her quite a bit worse while also being way out of character (imo, since she should be more comfortable in the air).
I also don't want her to be fixated on a banana, so I hope that they'd change that move as well. Otherwise she'd just be a little different Diddy, which would make him less unique as well. I also can't imagine her doing a cartwheel. It looked so weird in that one PM(?) video of her... that just doesn't work.
I feel like Dixie could be popular enough to change a few more things about her if she turns out to be an echo (so more like what I mentioned in my first point, with her being more semi-clony).

See I definitely agree that a semi clone would be a good route to go with but I'm still worried that the devs make those type of clones(Lucas and Wolf were the only ones who debuted as such, others had start as clones and get diversified in later installments) also would they their own number listing or not, it's so puzzling to me.
No matter what until the end I'll still keep hoping for the best that she can make it as a playable character which the only thing we can do.

BTW, the assist trophy idea is the worst outcome for most fans, especially seeing how it has upset a lot of people with the characters who truly have potential to be great additions. If you asked me assist trophies should be used for generic mooks or obstacles like that pong thing that wouldn't work as a fighter.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I really was hoping to be quoted a bit more in response: I really want to understand the thoughts I actually used to have, that many others seem to have now, in Dixie not being an echo. Even after what we have seen from Chrom.

I will never understand why it's always Spring Man and not literally any other ARMS character. All of them are way better than him. Yeah, I know it's because he's the "face" of the game, but then what about Ribbon Girl?

I'm gonna point out that no, Spring Man is not the face of ARMs. He is just a base character used to introduce fans to the core mechanics of a new game.
ARMS is a game about characterization, and without a mascot. Only time will reveal who the mascot becomes, just like Isabelle and Pikachu.

Unique/semi-clone > echo >>>>> being saddled with a character nobody likes

Besides, this isn’t how development works. Sakurai decides who the unique fighters are, then adds clones/echoes later. He doesn’t pick characters and say “unique or not” because the development time and process is totally different. So if she’s an echo it’s because she was already passed on for the base game and later thrown in with an easier development method.

Sakurai has never acknowledged the existence of DKC3 for five games until K. Rool’s recovery, so the addition of Kiddy Kong is about as likely as Brash The Bear.

I'm pretty certain that we have gotten nothing to acknowledge this for the current game. Considering Dark Samus and Chrom would have been removed from their former conditions to be playable, I think your statement above is already disproven. Not to mention getting Simon with Richter.

Clones may have been added at the end. Echoes seem to have gotten in from the start.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Just remembered that I actually had a dream last night where dixie got announced as an echo, I just remember being very disappointed, Hope it isn't a sign of things to come lol.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This nonsense logic has been debunked often enough that I'm not even going to bother telling you why you're wrong. All I ask is can we please stop talking in such negative definitives like this? Whenever I come to this thread anymore it's just an echo chamber, and in more than one way. Dixie is my most-wanted and I don't even want to visit her support thread anymore because all I see is:

Guess what? I don't ****ing care if you think that (and this goes for everyone saying this). Maybe you're right. Maybe she will be an echo of Diddy. But ffs, shut the hell up about it. We've all heard it more than enough. Maybe I'll be disappointed in the end, but until it happens, at least let me entertain the possibility of seeing her the way she was meant to be.

He wasn't being negative, he was just voicing an opinion different from your own. You went as far as to curse and italicize to emphasize aggression. The post you quoted was kind and thoughtful. Disagreement is not an attack on you.

 

[Ultinarok]

I've got a game we can all play to lighten the Echo debate. This includes Parallel_Falchion .

Take Dixie as a full Diddy Echo. She is identical. Each person then posts exactly one change to her moveset or attributes to de-clone her. Post only one change at a time. By the end of page 72, her changes are finalized and we have our semi-clone Dixie. Post details about move changes, and specific values for her attributes. Use the data on the wiki for an idea of the metrics. I'll start things out:

Increase air speed to 1.05. Because its a balancer, decrease dash speed to 1.60. Just so no one has to waste a change on nerfing her ground speed.